I may have figured out the reason

November 14, 2009

I keep analyzing one of the conversations that I had with my ex a week or so after the break-up, and I think I have finally come to terms with what she was trying to tell me. If it is what I think it is, then I don't really blame her for ending the relationship. I'm just curious as to how she knows. No, I did not cheat on her in any way. But if it is what I think it is, then all I can say is that I broke a big promise to her. I won't defend myself because there's no point in doing so. I'm going to try contacting her tomorrow to see if she's willing to discuss it.

I'm hesitant to discuss what I have done because it's something that I'm not proud of. It's a very very destructive and self-sabotaging way to deal with my anger issues when I am given the opportunity. It's selfish and very irresponsible.

November 14, 2009

JR,

If it is any consolation, how most people do their anger is ultimately destructive and self-sabotaging. The thing, I think...the place where self-forgiveness lives is somewhere in the fact that you weren't taught any better ways of dealing with your feelings of upset and frustration, which led to unexpressed anger, which eventually got vomited out in all sorts of unattractive ways.

The GOOD news is that you are now aware of your old, ineffective, non-productive ways, and in a position to choose to learn better anger release and emotions management skills

And you could even start by not going all angry-hostile on your Self...it is ALSO destructive to not give yourself a break and to just beat-up mercilessly on yourself.

Best of luck with all of it.

November 14, 2009

Well... I've been aware of my problem for quite some time. I'm not sure if I ever told my ex that I sometimes deal with my anger this way, but she mentioned anger management during that conversation.

And when I say that it's self-destructive, I mean really really self-destructive. It only leads to more frustration and anxiety down the line.

November 14, 2009

Well... I've been aware of my problem for quite some time.

Ah, okay. I'd still suggest, though, that one of your next tasks will be to find a way to forgive yourself for not having done something about it sooner. (I'm assuming that you are ready to do something about it now, yes?)

Yes, definitely...self-destructive behaviour does always lead to much more pain and suffering down the road; that's what it means.

November 14, 2009

I, honestly, don't want to trivialise your feelings JR but I *just* bet it's not that bad. Don't know how I can do that. Maybe, because, if it WAS godamnned awful - it would have been really apparent to you the second you did it? Don't know. Just how I feel.

Be careful not to keep digging a bigger hole in search of this 'hidden treasure' of WHY. You do have the power to decide why for yourself and then move forward. You do. x

November 15, 2009

Woah! Hold the train mate!

You are who you are and that is it. Fickle attempts to 'change' will not get you anywhere. You will just be whipped and have an unhappy life. If sombody loves you then they will not chnage you.

However, if you think you behave in a manner that damages your life then by all means take steps. Just make sure it isn't for the dirty lowlife (ok - harsh) who walked out on you.

November 15, 2009

well said namewitheld.

UM YEAH.

Here is the deal.

Don't be with someone who doesn't want to be with you.

If they want to change you then they don't really love you.

don't fix something that isn't broke or you'll make it worse.

So what, you ****ed up because you were angry, drugged, drunk, sad, depressed, had a f this life moment. if they leave you for something like that then where are they gonna be when **** really hits the fan in life?? cause it's going to.

Quit beating yourself up. A real lover knows things happen, everyone has issues, and people make mistakes. The one who can stand beside you and hold your head up is the one to spend your life with.

November 15, 2009

I, honestly, don't want to trivialise your feelings JR but I *just* bet it's not that bad. Don't know how I can do that. Maybe, because, if it WAS godamnned awful - it would have been really apparent to you the second you did it? Don't know. Just how I feel.

Be careful not to keep digging a bigger hole in search of this 'hidden treasure' of WHY. You do have the power to decide why for yourself and then move forward. You do. x

Thanks for trying to make me feel better, mickleb. It is pretty awful, but I try to justify myself when I'm committing the act. It'll feel good for a while and I lie to myself by saying, "Yeah, that'll show him/her." It definitely shows them how impulsive and irresponsible I am.

Again, I really appreciate the effort you guys are putting into making me feel better, but my habit is really really bad.

Just to get it out there: I spend a lot of money on useless things when I am angry or really sad. And it's worse because I specifically told her that I wouldn't do it again.

I practically sabotaged the relationship this year due to my reckless spending. It puts my commitment to the relationship in question because

1. Money really does matter for us.

2. I promised her I wouldn't waste money on useless things again

3. She told me that the only reason she'll leave me is if I gamble.

It's not gambling per se--unless you want to say that I was putting a gamble on the relationship--but it is pointless spending.

The only defense I have (and it's really weak) is that she does encourage it to some extent. But that doesn't really matter because I made a promise to her.

I may be a commitment phobe =/

Edited November 15, 2009 by JaggedRoad

November 15, 2009

I practically sabotaged the relationship this year due to my reckless spending. It puts my commitment to the relationship in question because

So if you are correct... Then best way now to show her, and more importantly yourself how much understand this destructive behavior for what it is, is to figure out the why, what, how of it. Why do you do this, what do you get out of it and how can you behave more productively, when similar triggers happen in the future. Doing this very hard work but will show respect to her, your relationship and yourself. It will give real meaning to the break-up and the ability to see it as something that made you a better you rather then a reason to put yourself down. And it will give any future relationship higher chances of success.

November 15, 2009

I agree. I just finished writing something that I will have her read tomorrow. I don't know how it will go, but I'll hope for the best and prepare for the worse.

November 15, 2009

I agree. I just finished writing something that I will have her read tomorrow. I don't know how it will go, but I'll hope for the best and prepare for the worse.

You already committed before not to behave in that manner, why would should she believe there would be any changes this time. If the issue are true, and you have yet to do any work to change the problem, then she should see what you write as just more words. I suggest before you say, do. Then your actions will give your words meaning. We have all said it here, actions speak louder then words. And if this issue destroyed your relationship, then doing the work become more important then fixing a relationship but putting you in control of your life. And please understand I write this with your well being in mind. Edited November 15, 2009 by GrayClouds

November 15, 2009

GC is right, Jagged. If you must, you can explain that you have chosen to take a certain course of action and need to dedicate a certain amount of time to it (i.e. NC whilst you get on with fixing it.) But you'd need to be already signed up to the 'treatment' before explaining this to her. Your 'crime' is not so heinous, btw. A little reckless, sure but not undoable.

You seem to be admitting to something else, here, though. That you might do this deliberately, as a way of pushing her away? What has brought you to this line of questioning? x

November 15, 2009

Ugh! What is it with people on this site who want to share things but leave out the most critical information? It is really annoying.

November 15, 2009

Well, I'll have you read what I wrote:

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to tell you this. I want to let you know now that I am doing this for three reasons:

1. I want us to reconcile and give the relationship another try
2. I want you to know the truth.
3. I want you to have a good reason for breaking up with me.

We had a 2-hour conversation back in August when you were at Tracy’s house. We did the cryptic talk again (it was my fault) and I got really confused at the end because I wasn’t quite sure what you were referring to. I’m not sure if I’m about to tell you is what you were mentioning, but it’s the only thing that seems to make sense.

I’m not sure if you read the email that I sent to you a few days ago, but my depression is interdependent with what I’m going to tell you.

I spent a lot of money on things that I should not have this year. You told me not to, but I did anyway. There are several reasons for why I decided to do what I did. Anger is one of them. You mentioned anger management in the conversation that I referred to earlier, so that’s one reason why I think this is what you were trying to tell me. I’m not really sure how you found out, but I’m sorry I wasn’t upfront with you about it. Omission is not lying, but it’s probably worse.

I felt really guilty about this the entire year, so that contributed to my depression and unusual silence. It’s worse because at times, I would say to myself, “If she finds out and breaks up with me, then oh well.” I knew it was something I shouldn’t have been doing and it would have damaged your trust, and make you doubt the relationship. But I did it anyway and lied to myself that it was ok because, “If she breaks up with me for something like this, then the relationship would never last anyway.” I say I was lying to myself because I made myself believe that it was ok even when I knew it wasn’t. I didn’t want the relationship to end at all and I never had. But when I am angry or really depressed about something, I lie to myself to escape the moment and do something that momentarily gives me a sense of control. I have control issues too. Furthermore, I’m an opportunist. I do things when the opportunity arises and I know I can probably get away with it (unless it’s cheating on someone or killing someone). And even worse, this is something that I do time and time again when I don’t know how to handle a situation.

You asked me why you should trust me or give me another chance when I just do it again and again. The only thing I can really say is that you should give me another chance if you really do love me and value our relationship. If you can look past this, and know that I can stop repeating these offenses now that I know what the consequences are, then please give us another chance. If you can see us living together and grow old together, then yes, give us another chance. If you know that I love you and will do whatever it takes to make living together possible, then yes, please give us another chance. If you know that I will be honest with you and never hide anything again—and treat you well--, then yes, please give our relationship another chance. But don’t do it if the only reason for doing so is if you’re afraid of losing me forever and never being apart of my life again. Do it for the right reasons.

I just finished talking with her.

The bottom line: She doesn't want to do it again because the distance is too much for her.

If it's a big deal for her, then I really can't say anything about it.

I think I can finally move on now.

November 16, 2009

I've decided to get her some things for Christmas and her Birthday seeing as it is her 21st birthday and most likely the last time I'll be able to give her something.

November 16, 2009

Sorry to hear that. My other post I was really drunk and don't remember making it!! I maintain the points made though although could probably have put them more sensitively (eg like libelle)

Sounds like she has moved on though so I hope you can too.

November 16, 2009

I've decided to get her some things for Christmas and her Birthday seeing as it is her 21st birthday and most likely the last time I'll be able to give her something.

One of the hardest things I had to learn is that I would always find one more "last thing"... It only made it hurt worse Jagg...

November 17, 2009

Sorry to hear that. My other post I was really drunk and don't remember making it!! I maintain the points made though although could probably have put them more sensitively (eg like libelle)

Sounds like she has moved on though so I hope you can too.

What you wrote is fine.

She certainly has moved on and I'm somewhat glad that she has.

She has no interest in reconciling, so that hurts a bit. She broke it off because she felt insecure seeing me lose control of my life. I can't ask her, or anyone, to stand by me while I get back on my feet, but I feel really sad because I was there for her when she was going through her own crisis. I'll take this as a lesson to never rely on anyone for anything.

sean: Yeah, I've had trouble letting go with this break-up because there was always one more last thing that I had to do.

November 18, 2009

I'm currently writing something (hopefully the last) that I want her to read.

Here's a rough draft so far:

I write this to you so I can be sure that I have said all there is for me to say; my actions will follow.
This is something that you would have wanted me to do as well. I made my promise to you--that I will do whatever I can to get you back should you ever try to break up with me or do break up with me. You already made a remark when I mentioned this the first time, but this is something that I need to do and it's something that I want to do. Even if this fails to make you reconsider, at least I'll know that I didn't try to hold back. And at the very least, writing this will make sense of the past year because everything seems to be just a blur right now.

The quality of our conversations through the phone declined over the past year. I already gave you two reasons and sources of the problem that contributed to my behavior. There is one more that I have yet to mention. I'm reluctant to type further because it will appear as if I am trying to blame you. That is not the case, so please don't think that I am trying to blame you.

Our relationship was only able to grow to the extent that it had because we were open and honest with each other. We were not afraid of speaking our mind and letting the other know of our worries. I remember how we used to set aside time specifically towards the end of an evening call to learn more about each other. There were certain subjects that we were hesitant to discuss at first due to fear of rejection and ridicule, but we learned to trust each other and got past those fears.

Everything went well, especially when we met up for the first time two winters ago. From what I can recall, one particular incident changed things. You made a new blog and had me read your entries, and one of them vaguely mentioned the surgery that you had with your nose. I curious, so I asked you about it. I guess this was something that you did not want to discuss as you suddenly became quiet and wouldn't talk to me for about a day. I didn't try to press further because I respected your privacy, but it was the first time in a long time that you reacted this way. This was the first time since the second break-up that you ignored me. There was nothing that we could not openly discuss with each other before this incident. I suppose this made me a little bit more cautious and wary about what I questions I could ask you and what I could discuss with you. I mention this incident because it is still very fresh in my mind and evidently had an impact on my behavior towards you. And I am positive that this affected you as well because things were never quite the same again. You became more prone to ignoring me when I wanted to have a serious discussion. You went back to your old habit of saying, "talking about things doesn't help. It just reminds me of bad things." I eventually got used to this and--at some point--adopted the same behavior. But in doing so, I lost a part of myself that was essential to who I am. I am the nagging and nurturing type; and the type that really needs to vent to let go of stress, so resorting to silence and omission poisoned my identity. This was not your fault. I allowed this to happen, and other factors contributed to this as well.

Before you went on vacation, you asked me if I ever had thoughts of suicide, and I told you yes. For some reason, you sounded surprise and asked me why I never talked about it, so I told you that I didn't want to worry you. They were simply bad thoughts that I had in my moments of weakness. You already had your fair share of stress, and I really did not want to add more to it. But I really don't know what the right course of action should have been. You told me (after the break-up) that I hardly share. But when I do share, you start to worry and sometimes withdraw from me. After the break-up, you told me that you don't like to be friends with those who talk about sad things and you prefer talking to those who only make you happy. So what am I to do? I hold things in and you tell me that I don't share. And when I do share, you get depressed and tell me that you prefer people who don't talk about such things. My life is full of sadness. I shared with you the moments of joy that I did get to experience as well as those that do not put me at ease.

You are well aware of my relapse with bronchitis last year, but there was one other condition that I was suffering from for a few weeks. I believe it might have been Trigeminal Neuralgia, but I never went to the doctor to have it diagnosed. It went away after a few weeks, so I didn't pursue the matter. I was really afraid because the pain was unlike anything I had experienced before. I wanted to tell you, but I was afraid of how you would react. I didn't want to worry you, and I didn't want to have that on my conscience. I know that it was selfish of me and I am sorry for being so. This condition may have been a bad side-effect of having my root canal done last year.

With all the health problems that I was going through, it was hard for me to have a positive outlook on life. I know I told you about the material that I studied last year and made it seem all fatalistic, but that was only the case because I neglected the bright side of things. I did nothing but concentrate and dwell on all the negatives. And in an ironic twist, what I was learning was the very thing that could have kept me on track, but I strayed anyway and got lost in the vastness of everything. All I really had to do was talk to you, but I didn't--at least not enough. Talking is the easiest thing to do, yet I chose not to. My reason? It's the same for pretty much everything: I did not want to make you worry. There were times when I did try to talk to you about it, but I had a hard time putting my thoughts into words and my venting does not last more than 5 minutes.

Last August, you reconnected with Tracy and through her, you met other people. Your contact with them increased throughout the year and at times, I felt neglected. It seemed as if you were spending more time talking with them than you did with me. You seemed to have been aware of your growing attention towards your new friends because you apologized to me a few times for talking about them all the time. I didn't want to say anything because I was happy to see you enjoy yourself with new friends, and I didn't want to appear needy. You seemed to have a lot more in common with them or at least you were able to enjoy Lucky Star with them than you were able to with me--it's not really my type of show. The distance between us grew more and more from that point on. But in retrospect, all I had to do was talk to you and maintain a better level of communication. That's definitely easier to say now because I am no longer within that situation. And looking back at the situation now, I have come to realized that the way I behaved then is part of a pattern that has been repeating throughout my life. I instinctively distance myself from others (even those close to me) when it they seem to acquaint themselves with new people and begin to spend more time with them. I was not completely aware of what I did at the time because everything was done based on instinct rather than cognitive thought.

I only felt secure because I was under the assumption that nothing was ever going to drive us apart. Even though there were times when it felt like we were drifting apart, some of the things that you said and did suggested otherwise. You were planning to come over next summer and perhaps even during the spring if it was possible, so I thought things were okay.

One thing in particular is sticking out like a sore thumb: you made me aware of your worries last fall. I suppose this is what you were referring to when you told me that you tried to break up with me once, but I wouldn't let you. I take great offense to that remark. I would never force you into staying in the relationship against your wishes. What is the point of being in a relationship if one partner is absent? That's not a relationship, that's just asking for trouble. A week after this happened, you apologized to me and blamed your behavior on PMS. I apologize for not discussing the issue further with you at the time. One reason would be your reluctance to discuss the matter with me even if I wanted to, and I was honestly too overwhelmed with school and my health to properly discuss the problems with the relationship. Things crawled, but you eventually told me that you remembered why you loved me. You asked me to watch a specific episode of Lucky Star that actually had a serious message. I watched it, and you enthusiastically confessed to me that you loved me because I was the only person in the world to love you as much. I'm not quite sure how to respond to that reason, but I really need to ask you if that is the only reason for loving me. I'm no expert on love, but it appears as if you are only reciprocating love to me as if it were owed--using my love as a quantifier rather than the result of admiration, compassion, and respect. My love for you, the Christine that I thought I knew, was the result of understanding who you were, and respecting all the good and the bad in you. So I ask you this, What do you love about me? If you cannot answer that, then there is nothing left for either of us to say and no reason for me to pursue you for another try at a relationship.

Edited November 18, 2009 by JaggedRoad

November 20, 2009

It's a very emotional and heart felt letter, do you feel by having her read it is a last chance attempt at your relationship or is it more of a closure thing?

I Hope if you reconcile it is because both of you want it and not something the other feels obliged to do.

Good luck

P.s I am very curious to know about the stuff you bought that you promised you wouldn't...are you willing to share?

November 20, 2009

I've decided to get her some things for Christmas and her Birthday seeing as it is her 21st birthday and most likely the last time I'll be able to give her something.

I suggest some sexy underwear that she can wear to the club as she's celebrating her 21st birthday by grinding on some new guy. I am sure she will be thinking of you the whole time.

Or you can just bang your head against the wall, it will cost less and hurt less.

I write this to you so I can be sure that I have said all there is for me to say; my actions will follow.

Actions comes first then write the letter and the words will then have meaning

November 21, 2009

It's a very emotional and heart felt letter, do you feel by having her read it is a last chance attempt at your relationship or is it more of a closure thing?

I Hope if you reconcile it is because both of you want it and not something the other feels obliged to do.

Good luck

P.s I am very curious to know about the stuff you bought that you promised you wouldn't...are you willing to share?

I'll share if someone from LS is in the same room with me so he can whack me over the head with a spiked club.

But in all seriousness, my reckless spending is akin to gambling. In my spare time (I used to have very little), I play online role-playing games and most of them have a cash shop feature. These cash shops offer virtual goods in exchange for real money. At first, I didn't want to bother with them because I didn't really have much money anyway. But once I started working and had a small income, I began purchasing virtual goods from time to time. Buying one thing turned into buying two, and so on. When I say that she encouraged my behavior, I meant to say that she did the same thing. I stopped when I noticed how much money I actually spent over a 3-month period, but I still felt really guilty. My guilty conscience ate away at me, so I decided to confront my ex and told her what was bothering me. I made my promise to her as a way to prevent myself from doing it again. Well, more along the lines of being more responsible and know when to stop.

This stopped until March of this year when I was idle at home. I'll just say that I spent a lot.

The letter is pretty much closure for myself at the very least.

Graycloud: The letter is a summary of what I was going through in the past year. I understand what you are trying to say, but I need to do this now.

And as for the gifts, I'm thinking about getting her some books written by Shel Silverstein. She's from Malaysia, so I'm hoping that Silverstein's material will be new to her. Yes, they are books for children, but they have a profound message that even adults sometimes need to remember.

Edited November 21, 2009 by JaggedRoad

November 21, 2009

And as for the gifts, I'm thinking about getting her some books written by Shel Silverstein. She's from Malaysia, so I'm hoping that Silverstein's material will be new to her. Yes, they are books for children, but they have a profound message that even adults sometimes need to remember.

I do truly wish you the best:)

November 21, 2009

Thank you =)

November 21, 2009

I'm going to hold this off for another week. Ex's friend at uni just tried to commit suicide.

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