kiwi pom Posted November 22, 2009 Posted November 22, 2009 HI Sean my heart goes out to you - I am in a similar position to you except I am NOT leaving the Family home. It really is hard I know to stay but in my case its best for one of us to remain consistant and 'be there' for our kids. Mine are older (12 & 17). Yes all that you say is familiar the OM was the inital reason, then there was a lot of lies about that not being the real reason and she needed space to find her self - its all BS. She finally admitted to me last night that he's on the scene still and the FOG is clearly there. As someone said you cant beg or plead - I never did but it killed me (we are only at 5 weeks since she dropped the bomb shell) Its about pride in my case I guess - I cant be a doormat any more I am easy going but to ask me to lie to F & Fs about the real reasons for our separation was TOTAL BS. Yes shes having the affair yes she needs to take responsibility & yes SHE needs to admit that to all concerned. You do seem to need to be more assertive with her - shes having her cake & eating it. Sure they get angry - I got a hell of a roasting in front of the kids after court counselling - but all I ever did is tell the TRUTH. They dont want to face the Truth 0 all the pain THEY are causing to Kids Family Friends & us, its like if they lie or ignore the truth, it will work its self out. Let me tell you after 19 years in my case & no obvious warnings that ANYTHING was deeply missing in our marriage, it is a total shock - but YOU WILL RECOVER - I feel already like a weight is lifted - YOU WILL TOO - give it time and put you & your kids first in all you do. YOu know what is best for them after all. Believe me it will get easier - but you need to accept and move foward ........
Steadfast Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 You are going about this all wrong, you are being to much of a push over. When a woman cheats on you and you chase her she just stops respecting you as a man/lover and she sees you as a brother. You don't just give her everything including the trust back, you make her earn it. If she isn't willing to work to get everything back then she does not love you and it is pointless staying married to her I respectfully disagree that Sean is going about it all wrong, but agree with the rest of your statements. For everyone concerned, I believe it is best to try and save a marriage if it can be saved. Judging by his words Sean is very aware that she needs to commit fully. No one is perfect; there is nothing wrong with *showing* a cheater love, but begging, being needy, etc, is certainly the kiss of death. Again, I think Sean knows this. From here, it seems Sean is doing very well considering a difficult situation. Kiwi, stay strong and know that her issues do not reflect your lack of love, devotion or anything else. Me, and many others here know what you're going through. Approach each day dedicated to doing what's right and keeping a clear head. When in doubt, simply do what is best for the kids. Stay strong, hang in there and keep us posted. We're here for you-
BearMox Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 an update from me: I put my foot down and let her know I wasnt willing to move under any circumstances. She threatened legal action -- I told her to go ahead. She got up and left in the middle of dinner and walked home. I actually considered securing my gun and knives (from her) she was so livid when she came home later that night. She started sleeping in another room that night. I'm realizing that I'm battling now at the same time as this unresolved controlling motherinlaw issues coupled with the terrible father my wife had and the projection onto me. I have a close relationship with the inlaws but they both disagree with me on how I put my foot down. I had a beer with my fatherinlaw the night after and explained things to him, and why I'm doing what I'm doing. He was nervous and fidgity which was unlike him. he stood his ground though. my motherinlaw wont even speak to me she is still so angry. I know what I did was right. I'm continuing to go to MC on my own and will continue to be a good dad and husband as long as she is at home. I'm being venerable with all my close friends, family and mentors in my life and it feels wonderful. I feel so much weight lifted since doing this.
curiou Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 BearMox, I applaud you for having the strength to do what many others can't. Let me remind you: no yelling or engaging in emotional debate. It only makes for a stressful household, and will push your wife away even more. Act happy and go about living your life and providing for your family. I wouldn't discuss the case unnecessarily with her family. I think you already realize this, but no matter what their daughter has done, they will likely side with her. I would just say, "Listen mom and dad. I've been working hard to provide for us. I caught her in an affair, which was devastating to me. I don't think I should have to leave the household and pay for her to play boyfriend/girlfriend. I hope you can see my point of view. I realize she is your daughter, and I understand that you must support her point of view, so no hard feelings." Leave it at that. Meanwhile, secure your proof and keep it somewhere safe (trusted family?) You need to start thinking about separating finances, etc, and keeping your long-term emotional, financial, and psychological interests safe.
Author seanocasey Posted November 24, 2009 Author Posted November 24, 2009 I caught my wife in yet another lie via phone records. I am pretty sure now that the same affair continues or she has started another one. Can't be sure. I am taking the kids to the beach for Thanksgiving, the hell with her. I told her that I am walking away. Time to begin truly getting over her. I tried everything I could think of or had been advised to do over the last two months. NO MORE. I will not be a doormat, pushover, you name it. I still love her but she is lost! BearMox, I applaud you for having the strength to do what many others can't. Let me remind you: no yelling or engaging in emotional debate. It only makes for a stressful household, and will push your wife away even more. Act happy and go about living your life and providing for your family. I wouldn't discuss the case unnecessarily with her family. I think you already realize this, but no matter what their daughter has done, they will likely side with her. I would just say, "Listen mom and dad. I've been working hard to provide for us. I caught her in an affair, which was devastating to me. I don't think I should have to leave the household and pay for her to play boyfriend/girlfriend. I hope you can see my point of view. I realize she is your daughter, and I understand that you must support her point of view, so no hard feelings." Leave it at that. Meanwhile, secure your proof and keep it somewhere safe (trusted family?) You need to start thinking about separating finances, etc, and keeping your long-term emotional, financial, and psychological interests safe.
curiou Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 seanocasey, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to threadjack your topic with my responses to BearMox. As far as your situation: I'm glad you're getting angry about this. So glad for you. I went through similar things long ago, and one of my best buddies is suffering through a crazy story himself. You'd be surprised, even ELATED, that once you start really thinking about what she is doing, how productive your resultant anger can be. Once you get out of the desperate stage many of us went through, the anger can be quite empowering. You're taking CONTROL of the situation. And wresting her control away. Think about it: A day when you won't be snooping through cell phone records, spying on emails, looking for physical clues, pining for some unrequited love. Doesn't that day sound sublime? It is. You will get there. It takes time, and invariably some failure and setback, but you will get there. That day is glorious, and you can live without the psychological torture of this affair the rest of your life, happy as a clam. Trust me on this! Good luck.
Author seanocasey Posted November 24, 2009 Author Posted November 24, 2009 seanocasey, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to threadjack your topic with my responses to BearMox. As far as your situation: I'm glad you're getting angry about this. So glad for you. I went through similar things long ago, and one of my best buddies is suffering through a crazy story himself. You'd be surprised, even ELATED, that once you start really thinking about what she is doing, how productive your resultant anger can be. Once you get out of the desperate stage many of us went through, the anger can be quite empowering. You're taking CONTROL of the situation. And wresting her control away. Think about it: A day when you won't be snooping through cell phone records, spying on emails, looking for physical clues, pining for some unrequited love. Doesn't that day sound sublime? It is. You will get there. It takes time, and invariably some failure and setback, but you will get there. That day is glorious, and you can live without the psychological torture of this affair the rest of your life, happy as a clam. Trust me on this! Good luck. I did not take it as a threadjack. I am still trying to figure out how to just reply in the right place on this site. The place you describe sounds so great. I cannot wait. The lack of trust is tearing me a part. I hate being a snoop and I will not do it anymore. I need to get out of my head somehow. Any legal suggestions?
phineas Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 Legal suggestions? Just one. Get you're ass back in your house. My buddy moved out. when she got the house she got EVERYTHING he didn't list specifically on the papers.
Steadfast Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 Curiou, Your posts are inspiring. Keep up the good work. Bearmox and Sean, same to both of you. It's good to see you guys making these tough but loving decisions. Sean, it's simple; if your wife is the one causing distress in the marriage, then she should be the one to go. Period. Your mindset must be that of damage control. She's taken away enough, no sense letting her mixed and confused emotions run roughshod over everyone else. Fight the good fight. I see this board doing some really good things lately. It's uplifting!
Chrome Barracuda Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 Didnt I tell his azz to get back into the house asap. She'll find a way to screw you outta that one too!
seibert253 Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 GO HOME AND STAKE YOUR CLAIM TO WHAT'S YOURS. At the same time be a thorn in her side as far as the A goes. When you walk into the door and say "Honey I'm Home, oh, by the way I have a gift for you". Then you hand her the D papers.
nobmagnet Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 ann 09, have you heard of kama? think you comments indicate the kind of person you are. you are so far up your own ass you havent seen daylight for years. do you look at separation and divorce to make your self feel better? what a lowly worm you are. l
Author seanocasey Posted November 25, 2009 Author Posted November 25, 2009 Didnt I tell his azz to get back into the house asap. She'll find a way to screw you outta that one too! The house is worth less than I paid for the damn thing (in this economy). She can have the house as far as I am concerened. It is my kids home as well. I will not move back into the house for my kids sake. They come first no matter what. I can take better care of them and provide more normalcy at my current residence. Things are about the same with MF over the last two days. I picked up the kids last night and she could have cared less. Where does someone's soul go when they are in an affair? Lying to their spouses constantly, making me feel like I am to blame, saying awful, hurtful things. I just do not get it. The good news is I only have to deal with her for an hour at marriage counseling next Monday for the next two weeks. Thinking that I should just go completely silent with her. No phone, No Text, except to let the kids talk to her. All of the BS I have been doing has not worked, just need to walk away and let her figure it out.
dgiirl Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 I guess the first important question we need to know is "Do you want to have primary custody?", "Do you want your kids to live with you?" The reason why we recommend you moving into the house is not for the house, nor for her, but because in the eyes of the courts it will look like you are an active father. Unfortunately, a lot of the courts are still biased and they automatically assume the mother is the primary caregiver, and thus usually get primary custody. In order for you to have your kids live with you, you will need proof that you have done and can do the role. You need to establish that you do in fact deal with the day to day raising of them. IF you do want your kids to live with you, and you will not move back into the house (the longer you wait the harder it will be to regain access), the only other advice I can recommend is to document everything! Every time you pick your kids up, document it. Document your routine, but leave out emotions. Stick to the facts. If she's late, document it. It is advisable for you to keep two journals, one for all your emotions, another purely for the facts. This way, if you need to bring it to court, you can give them the fact journal. Keeping out emotions and sticking to the facts will help your cause. It will not look like you are being vengeful trying to take the kids, but that you actually do want the kids and have been taking care of them, despite being out of the house. If you don't want primary custody, but want to keep your current schedule with your kids, I still advise to keep a journal. Document everything. Document all your expenses. Essentially, you and your wife are going to court. And if you were going to go to court with any body else, you would make sure you bring as much proof that supports you as much as possible. You might never ever use it, but make sure you have it!
phineas Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 you will be viewed as abandoning your kids if you move out & stay out.
Steadfast Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 Please reconsider moving back into the house Sean, unless you want your (stbx) to have control. I know what you're thinking and it's commendable, but -simply put- you're setting yourself up to get screwed. Move back and tell her to find some place else. I did it, my ex fought me and made life miserable (for six weeks) but you know what? The pull of her affair and wanting to be single was stronger than her desire to stay with her me and the kids. Think about that for a minute. My wife was a 'good mom' too Sean, but she changed. The focus became her and what she wanted. She lied, cheated and basically said anything to keep it all in place until she was safe to do what she really wanted. Is that who you want your kids with? I'm not going to kid you being a full time, single dad is work. Some days are really tough, but others are really wonderful. The relationship I have with my kids is amazing. A year after our split she 'had a change of heart' and wanted the kids with her. They refused. Bad for her but good for them, which is all I really care about now. I never uttered one bitter word to her, so she has absolutely nothing to hang her hat on. Just made up stuff. Kids first my friend. If she was thinking clearly, that's what she'd think too. She isn't. It's her first. People might hate me for saying this but good parents don't cheat on there spouses. I'm not talking about a one time 'mistake' or even a fling. No one with love for their family brings lies, pain, selfishness and deception into it.
seibert253 Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 you will be viewed as abandoning your kids if you move out & stay out. Exactly and she will get full custody.
phineas Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 what Steadfast said. Think about this. She is in the house with the kids. Do you want OM around your kids in your house? With you home she has to leave you babysitting so she can go out & see her boyfriend. It's win/win. You get to spend time with your kids & she is out of the house most of the time.
whichwayisup Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 If she wants out - SHE moves out and you get the house and the kids. Please listen to what everyone is telling you! Move back home..Now.
nobmagnet Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 steadfast, you are sooooooooo right.Let her "sail her ship" be there for your kids to avoid her mistakes she will make. one of you needs to hold stability and it is probably you. Give her option to sail and see where it goes?
BUENG1 Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 The house is worth less than I paid for the damn thing (in this economy). She can have the house as far as I am concerened. It is my kids home as well. I will not move back into the house for my kids sake. They come first no matter what. I can take better care of them and provide more normalcy at my current residence. Things are about the same with MF over the last two days. I picked up the kids last night and she could have cared less. Where does someone's soul go when they are in an affair? Lying to their spouses constantly, making me feel like I am to blame, saying awful, hurtful things. I just do not get it. The good news is I only have to deal with her for an hour at marriage counseling next Monday for the next two weeks. Thinking that I should just go completely silent with her. No phone, No Text, except to let the kids talk to her. All of the BS I have been doing has not worked, just need to walk away and let her figure it out. You should be careful and talk to a lawyer, you leaving the house may have an effect on what custody you get.
BearMox Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 (edited) Get counsel. I had to get counsel in my situation. Here's some pointers that I can share with you to protect yourself if you are moving out and are concerned about legal implications. 1) email is the best paper trail in family courts 2) agree to a schedule with her before moving out 3) send her an email with the schedule and the details of why you are moving out and when you will be moving back in. 4) record every action you do that involves her or your kids 5) avoid any and all conflict, escalation and negativity. 6) be kind about moving out 7) avoid slander and gossip and badmouthing her This said, you will still be at a higher risk if she wants to seek to get > 50% of the time with the kids in a separation or divorce. Edited December 3, 2009 by BearMox
Author seanocasey Posted December 4, 2009 Author Posted December 4, 2009 Get counsel. I had to get counsel in my situation. Here's some pointers that I can share with you to protect yourself if you are moving out and are concerned about legal implications. 1) email is the best paper trail in family courts 2) agree to a schedule with her before moving out 3) send her an email with the schedule and the details of why you are moving out and when you will be moving back in. 4) record every action you do that involves her or your kids 5) avoid any and all conflict, escalation and negativity. 6) be kind about moving out 7) avoid slander and gossip and badmouthing her This said, you will still be at a higher risk if she wants to seek to get > 50% of the time with the kids in a separation or divorce. I played it tough over the Thanksgiving holiday (little contact etc.) and traveled for business this week and kept contact to minimum. MW still is not really talking to me about our relationship. MC is not really doing anything, not sure where or what to do next. I still cannot get her out of my mind. I find myself worrying about Christmas, New Year's, her family, my family. How do I make the suffering go away?
someotherguy Posted December 4, 2009 Posted December 4, 2009 Get into therapy, individual counseling, whatever it takes to get your head right. But, you really need to take a single piece of advice many people are screaming at you in this thread: Get back into that house with your kids. You do not want to show up in divorce court and have her lawyer tell the judge you abandoned your family, you will be dead in the water if they can say that. Your cheating wench of a wife will get full custody, and you may get the crumbs of occasional visitation. Honor and fairness have nothing to do with the law, unfortunately.
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