My MM has been caught....

[MizFit]

I was BS and blamed my xH not the OW. However, what I don't understand MizFit is knowing what it feels like to be a BS and have your world turned upside down, how can you now contribute to that experience from the other side. Where is your empathy?

 

Read the thread...if you had, you'd see I feel empathy, but I don't feel guilt.

 

The reason I don't feel guilt is because when I was a BS I was a BS, not a WBBYAOW (wife betrayed by an other woman). The spouse did the betraying...

[norajane]

I think most of us here would say that dating a married man is not the IDEAL..

 

It's not a matter of not being ideal. It doesn't even come close to average, much less ideal.

 

Few relationships are ideal, but an affair with a married person is pretty much guaranteed from the start to create chaos and heartache for at least 2 out of the 3 people, and usually for all 3.

 

Single people obviously don't always end up in a great relationship that works out but at least the odds aren't stacked high against them from the word go. Someone dating a married person starts out in the bottom of a huge hole and rarely can climb up and out into the sun, no matter how much they struggle to do so and no matter how much hope they have that they can.

 

MizFit, you said we empathize with those we are most invested in. That's nice for the WS - they have two people invested in them, while the WS's investment is divided between the two. An OP gives their all to the WS, while the WS isn't as invested in the OP, or varies their level of investment day by day, week by week, flips to one or the other and back...all to suit themselves and certainly not for the two people whose lives he's playing with.

 

The person you should be most invested in is yourself. Don't set yourself up for a fall from the start. Don't put your future into the hands of another couple and their choices for their marriage. Treat married people as off-limits, if for no one else's benefit than your own.

[Itsallaboutchoices]

"The person you should be most invested in is yourself. Don't set yourself up for a fall from the start. Don't put your future into the hands of another couple and their choices for their marriage. Treat married people as off-limits, if for no one else's benefit than your own."

 

 

When married people start treating other married people or single people as 'off-limits' then maybe this idea would work but in the real world it just doesn't happen.

[jj33]

yes, but the underlying message here in this thread, and many others is, "I don't owe the wife a damn thing.....so #### 'em"

 

Dexter you seem to misconstrue the whole dynamic of an affair.

 

When someone is sleeping with someone else's spouse, their focus in not on that person's spouse.

 

So why the surprise? Not all the threads on this forum are about repentant APs.

 

Sometimes they arent repentant and that is their choice. thats what the forum is about - the AP not the BS.

[Dexter Morgan]

How exactly have I crucified his wife? I made a comment about sex and that he reacted inappropriately by having an affair...is that crucifying her?

 

no, sleeping with her husband, aiding and abetting her betrayal willingly, knowingly, and without any compassion for her is.

[Dexter Morgan]

You have no idea the empathy I do or do not feel for his W...you've taken the fact I don't feel guilty and equated it with having no empathy.

 

yup...........

 

There...there is not one more thing I can say because Dexter and IO and a few others have a viewpoint that I dare go against

 

what? the viewpoint that sleeping with other people's spouses is wrong? that just because you didn't take the vows with the woman whose husband you are having sex with doesn't mean you aren't party to causing someone else pain? the viewpoint that because of the things mentioned above that we wouldn't knowingly be a party to the same? those viewpoints?

 

 

 

it doesn't matter that I've been on both sides of it

 

nope....it doesn't matter. Being betrayed doesn't give you a free pass at having your actions of having sex with someone elses husband viewed as despicable.

 

what? you think because you were betrayed you have and entitlement to sleep with someone elses husband??

 

 

I evidently do not have enough experience to have the right to my own opinions.

 

everyone has the right to their own opinion. and yes, you even have the "right" to #### someone elses husband.

 

but it doesn't mean you still don't have the responsibility to do the right and decent thing.

 

sure, it would be my "right" to go out and help myself to some other guy's wife.....but just because I have the "right" doesn't make it right. and I do have a responsibility to stay away from someone elses marriage even if the wife doesn't see it the same way.

 

 

You dare to tell me what I do or do not feel because I'm not on here sniffling around and announcing to the world that I've sat and been miserable and eaten chocolate all day

 

your words are what tells us what you do and don't feel. PUUULEASE, you gonna sit there and say you have empathy for the wife after your tripe about not owing her anything?

 

 

I tend to write in a certain way and it probably doesn't convey all of the emotions I feel, but that does not give you the right to tell anyone what they do or do not feel.

 

just like you feel you have the right to sleep with someone elses husband, I DO have the right to tell you whatever I think. Period.

 

 

I said repeatedly I didn't feel guilt...that doesn't mean I don't understand or empathize with her pain.

 

so you "understand" her pain....big deal. you certainly don't CARE that you are a party to causing it.

 

so, you understand it....you empathize with it....but eff her!! you'll still have sex with her husband if you want.

 

 

I have not made the W out to be a horrible evil woman who deserved what she got.

 

nah, you just don't owe her a damn thing:o

 

 

If anything I said she had issues and her H, my MM, dealt with them incorrectly, but the events leading up to the A and the fact he had an A were his decisions...not mine.

 

well hell, if not with you, someone else right?...so why not help yourself to him? afterall, he was gonna have an affair anyway right? might as well be you? He was gonna have an affair anyway....you get a free pass at someone's husband. geez

[Dexter Morgan]

Dexter you seem to misconstrue the whole dynamic of an affair.

 

When someone is sleeping with someone else's spouse, their focus in not on that person's spouse.

 

I agree...but she DID convey her attitude towards the wife, and she doesn't owe her a damn thing.

[hopeless4u]

I understand that some BW/BH can blame the OW but if a MM/MW is going to stray then they will stray, its that straight forward.

In my case my MM has said he was vulnerable when we met as things were not good at home but his own words 'its not terrible, if it was i'd of left'.

I also think that BS/BH must know something is wrong (as I did when I was a BW) and if they choose to ignore that then they must take responsibility for that. That is when the A starts to develop into something with feelings. If my MM and his W had faced up to their problems I'm sure things wouldn't of gone as far as they have and they would of either of D or worked it out. I'm not condoning what I've done or placing blame but there are 3 people involved in A and all play their part.

Most OW would love to be able to walk away but feelings have a way of making us do things we wouldn't normally do, I'm sure thats also the case for BW/BH. So although I not expecting sympathy and I'm sure most of the OW on here will say the same, we are still human and we do make mistakes but we still hurt just like everyone else.

[norajane]

"The person you should be most invested in is yourself. Don't set yourself up for a fall from the start. Don't put your future into the hands of another couple and their choices for their marriage. Treat married people as off-limits, if for no one else's benefit than your own."

 

 

When married people start treating other married people or single people as 'off-limits' then maybe this idea would work but in the real world it just doesn't happen.

 

It doesn't matter what married people do. You can make your own choices for what is best in your own life. Exercise your free will and pass the married people by instead of allowing them to suck you into their toxic marital drama.

[White Flower]

 

If you really want to use such an absurd analogy, I'll go along with it. It doesn't matter whether it's a Ford or Nissan but the bartender who served the drunk driver is just as culpable and will be prosecuted.

 

Why can't people accept responsibility for their choices?

 

No one forced you to date a married man. I simply don't see how someone can knowingly enter into an EMA then be surprised or hurt when it ends and they are left out.

The surprise doesn't come with, 'The A is over'. Rather, it is how it is all played out.

 

I believe the OP fell in love and handled things rather well. She winged it until the end and I think soared beautifully.

 

Mizfit, I would have told the truth myself. I always told MM should that day ever come I would not lie. How can she make any decisions about her future based on a lie? You did good girl.

 

Also, there will always be those who feel that both WS and AP are responsible for the damage to the M. You didn't take the vows, so the blame is all the WS. Period.

Edited November 17, 2009 by White Flower

[MizFit]

I understand that some BW/BH can blame the OW but if a MM/MW is going to stray then they will stray, its that straight forward.

In my case my MM has said he was vulnerable when we met as things were not good at home but his own words 'its not terrible, if it was i'd of left'.

I also think that BS/BH must know something is wrong (as I did when I was a BW) and if they choose to ignore that then they must take responsibility for that. That is when the A starts to develop into something with feelings. If my MM and his W had faced up to their problems I'm sure things wouldn't of gone as far as they have and they would of either of D or worked it out. I'm not condoning what I've done or placing blame but there are 3 people involved in A and all play their part.

Most OW would love to be able to walk away but feelings have a way of making us do things we wouldn't normally do, I'm sure thats also the case for BW/BH. So although I not expecting sympathy and I'm sure most of the OW on here will say the same, we are still human and we do make mistakes but we still hurt just like everyone else.

 

Well said hopeless...much luck to you in your situation.

[MizFit]

The surprise doesn't come with, 'The A is over'. Rather, it is how it is all played out.

 

I believe the OP fell in love and handled things rather well. She winged it until the end and I think soared beautifully.

 

Mizfit, I would have told the truth myself. I always told MM should that day ever come I would not lie. How can she make any decisions about her future based on a lie? You did good girl.

 

Also, there will always be those who feel that both WS and AP are responsible for the damage to the M. You didn't take the vows, so the blame is all the WS. Period.

 

Thanks very much White Flower...she actually got into his email account and read everything so there was no need for her to ask me for the truth. I had decided she would get exactly that, but it became unnecessary.

[MizFit]

It doesn't matter what married people do. You can make your own choices for what is best in your own life. Exercise your free will and pass the married people by instead of allowing them to suck you into their toxic marital drama.

 

I'm with you itsallaboutchoices (the original post)...when married people aren't held accountable and stray they will find a partner for the affair.

 

As I've said a million times...if it weren't a 6 month affair we'd been in, but a string of 1 night stands would MM be more villified? Because it's one person who got emotionally involved does that make it her fault or would you round up all 25 (arbitrary number) of the women he slept with and hold them personally accountable? The married person holds the responsibility to the BS.

 

Sorry...I'd sworn I wasn't going to keep repeating this...I swear again...I hope!

[LaGazelle]

I was BS and blamed my xH not the OW. However, what I don't understand MizFit is knowing what it feels like to be a BS and have your world turned upside down, how can you now contribute to that experience from the other side. Where is your empathy?

 

Well LOTU, MizFit is probably just trying to heal her pain. it is a very sad fact of life that many who are abused often become abusers. A huge number of OW have either been betrayed by the love of their life, or otherwise let down by some key male figure - often their father. It is sad, but when those who are hurt don't find healing, they go on to hurt others in order to minimise their own pain. By becoming an abuser they no longer have to define themselves simply as abused.

 

A friend of mine recently asked how I was so lucky to have met such a good match in my husband...I explained and then returned the question. I was horrified to hear she started out as the OW, and although he has still not married her and plans to live in another country away from her and their newborn. What really amazed me was her description of how her father left her mother, after her mother had been his OW for a while, and the mother then went on to be OW again etc....after a while I just blocked the confusion of it all and tried to see her as an individual and look at her pain as my friend (and the pain her child may also experience) rather than the pain she has caused and the similarities between her and my H's ONS. It is one of those situations, which if you let it overwhelm you, can give the impression that nothing in life makes sense.

Edited November 17, 2009 by LaGazelle

[RedDevil66]

Well LOTU, MizFit is probably just trying to heal her pain. it is a very sad fact of life that many who are abused often become abusers. A huge number of OW have either been betrayed by the love of their life, or otherwise let down by some key male figure - often their father. It is sad, but when those who are hurt don't find healing, they go on to hurt others in order to minimise their own pain. By becoming an abuser they no longer have to define themselves simply as abused.

 

A friend of mine recently asked how I was so lucky to have met such a good match in my husband...I explained and then returned the question. I was horrified to hear she started out as the OW, and although he has still not married her and plans to live in another country away from her and their newborn. What really amazed me was her description of how her father left her mother, after her mother had been his OW for a while, and the mother then went on to be OW again etc....after a while I just blocked the confusion of it all and tried to see her as an individual and look at her pain as my friend (and the pain her child may also experience) rather than the pain she has caused and the similarities between her and my H's ONS. It is one of those situations, which if you let it overwhelm you, can give the impression that nothing in life makes sense.

 

 

this is well said, on the mark and I am in total agreement.

There is an easy way out and the hard way out. The easy way is to become the offender, the hard way is to face one's pain and dig deep to find the wounds to heal.

 

Being a cheater is the ultimate in self let-down. It's like the cancer of the soul. It's tough to face our pains and break free of the chains that keep us tied to pain.

 

Cheaters work out their pain in the cheating. Healing is tough business and sometimes, it's just easier to take the easy way out.

[norajane]

I'm with you itsallaboutchoices (the original post)...when married people aren't held accountable and stray they will find a partner for the affair.

But why should that person be you? Why set yourself up for a fall? Why not make better choices for yourself and avoid the trauma of an affair?

 

My point wasn't about blaming the OW. It was about self-preservation. You wouldn't jump in front of a speeding car, so why get involved in a relationship you know will end in heartache?

 

Instead of thinking of it as MM is going to find an affair partner, so if it's not you, it will be someone else, think of it as MM is going to screw someone over, but why in hell should it be you?!

Edited November 17, 2009 by norajane

[MizFit]

Well LOTU, MizFit is probably just trying to heal her pain. it is a very sad fact of life that many who are abused often become abusers. A huge number of OW have either been betrayed by the love of their life, or otherwise let down by some key male figure - often their father. It is sad, but when those who are hurt don't find healing, they go on to hurt others in order to minimise their own pain. By becoming an abuser they no longer have to define themselves simply as abused.

 

A friend of mine recently asked how I was so lucky to have met such a good match in my husband...I explained and then returned the question. I was horrified to hear she started out as the OW, and although he has still not married her and plans to live in another country away from her and their newborn. What really amazed me was her description of how her father left her mother, after her mother had been his OW for a while, and the mother then went on to be OW again etc....after a while I just blocked the confusion of it all and tried to see her as an individual and look at her pain as my friend (and the pain her child may also experience) rather than the pain she has caused and the similarities between her and my H's ONS. It is one of those situations, which if you let it overwhelm you, can give the impression that nothing in life makes sense.

 

 

Let's see...I was about 26 when my H cheated on me...I was 46 when I met my MM...I would hardly say that's a matter of my healing process going bad. I met someone...I fell in love...it's something we do day in and day out. I knew I had no future with him just like I knew I had no future with the 'bad boy' when I was 20, but I still fell for him. I knew I had no future with him just like I knew I had no future with the man I worked with for a year that was going to return home after his contract was up, but I still fell for him. We set ourselves up for falls all of the time...in none of those relationships would I go back and change anything.

[Ms. Red]

Let's see...I was about 26 when my H cheated on me...I was 46 when I met my MM...I would hardly say that's a matter of my healing process going bad. I met someone...I fell in love...it's something we do day in and day out. I knew I had no future with him just like I knew I had no future with the 'bad boy' when I was 20, but I still fell for him. I knew I had no future with him just like I knew I had no future with the man I worked with for a year that was going to return home after his contract was up, but I still fell for him. We set ourselves up for falls all of the time...in none of those relationships would I go back and change anything.

 

 

MizFit,

 

I'm one of those lurkers who reads more than I post. So, I'm familiar with your story.

 

I have to ask you about what I bolded above. How is falling in love something that is a routine? I don't get that. Correct me if I am wrong but the way you put it, it's as if it's just a passing phase to you.

 

Could you elaborate on how you can fall in love day in and day out as if it is a routine?

 

I'm not trying to be bitchy. I just don't understand the way you put that.

[Fallen Angel]

Lol!:lmao:

Perhaps he didn't have to chase too hard...being overweight surely meant that you couldn't really run too fast. OK, joke aside...your delusion coupled with glimmers of self-awareness is somewhat sad. I think you will find he saw you as an insecure lay who does not value herself and would be an easy target to boost his ego. He knows that no beautiful, accomplished and confident woman would settle for the scraps you are happy to pick up since you feel so worthless and unworthy of better.

 

A guy once told me that he knows he has to "work" for me because I'm the type of woman who knows my worth and power. He also told me I didn't know too much about men because I don't need to. However, he asked me to take his efforts seriously because if he just wants sex, even great sex...he could settle for the easy way and jump a desperate woman who would do anything to have him.

 

It is sad that at your age, you have not found your power. I hope you find that someday.

 

Just curious as to what sick and twisted pleasure you got out of trying to make me feel inferior to you. Because the truth is I DON'T.

 

This man persued me for over a year before we even so much as held hands. This man "worked" HARD to win my love. Why? Well, my guess would be because of the beauty of my soul.

 

I was never desperate. Not then, not now, and I frequently turn down men who ask me out. Men that by most standards would be considered great catches. Handsome, well educated, more than gainfully employed, and single.

 

So you can climb down off of your high horse with your personal and insulting attack upon me.

 

What you think of me will not change my life, and your post reflects your true character which is ugly, and I am sure is visible to the world, no matter how pretty the mask you try to hide it behind.

[Fallen Angel]

Well LOTU, MizFit is probably just trying to heal her pain. it is a very sad fact of life that many who are abused often become abusers. A huge number of OW have either been betrayed by the love of their life, or otherwise let down by some key male figure - often their father. It is sad, but when those who are hurt don't find healing, they go on to hurt others in order to minimise their own pain. By becoming an abuser they no longer have to define themselves simply as abused.

 

Hmmm. I am an OW. Never once have I sought out a married man so that I could "abuse his wife". In fact, even though I was very damaged by men in my life, I did not go into my affair knowing that he was still married. Had I known that at the time, I would never have become involved with him. And I am pretty sure if you actually polled OW you would find that we spend little time actually thinking about the wife. In fact, though we sometimes feel pangs of guilt, SHE is not exactly someone who is on our minds very often. (Excpet when we are here on LS) We are concerned about our own feelings, and the feelings of our MM, and we don't in general actively seek to damage anyone. So much for your "abused becomes the abuser theory". UGH!

 

 

NEXT!!!

[Snowflower]

Hmmm. And I am pretty sure if you actually polled OW you would find that we spend little time actually thinking about the wife. In fact, though we sometimes feel pangs of guilt, SHE is not exactly someone who is on our minds very often. (Excpet when we are here on LS) We are concerned about our own feelings, and the feelings of our MM, and we don't in general actively seek to damage anyone.

 

 

 

 

FA, I appreciate your honesty here. I had to think about your post for a bit before I responded.

 

From what you are saying here, perhaps this is why so many OW believe whatever their MM tells them about the wife or the marriage. Since the wife is not a 'real person' in the OW's minds most of the time (except in those cases where the OW knows the wife), the feelings of the wife are not even considered when in the A.

 

Therefore, the pain and devastation felt by the BW are not real to the OW in many cases. The wife is just same evil person who is keeping the MM in a bad marriage (because this is what is often what is told by the MM) and since she doesn't appear to be a real person to most OW, her pain is discounted and when the BWs hopes and dreams are dashed when the affair is discovered, oh well, she (the BW) isn't a real person anyway.

 

It makes more sense now and explains some of the actions of the OW who wanted my husband.

 

Again, I appreciate your honestly, FA.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

i met the BW after the affair started. i never wanted to, but he brought her around.

 

the first time i met her she was rude and disrespectful to me (without reason, she had no clue). she was also rude and disrespectful to him. in fact, she was ALWAYS a witch to him when i saw them together. i know this wasnt the case in real life. shes a great wife and mother. but the times i saw her she was pretty ugly to the both of us.

 

so it made it easy for me. i wasnt viewing her as a person, just the actions for the short time that i saw her. and after a while i was in love with him, and when i witnessed her being ugly to him, i became defensive. and so yes, i didnt feel much for her. in my eyes she didnt feel much for him.

[OWoman]

it is a very sad fact of life that many who are abused often become abusers. A huge number of OW have either been betrayed by the love of their life, or otherwise let down by some key male figure - often their father. It is sad, but when those who are hurt don't find healing, they go on to hurt others in order to minimise their own pain. By becoming an abuser they no longer have to define themselves simply as abused.

 

I've not been betrayed, neither by "the love of my life" nor by "some key male figure", especially not my father. In fact, my Rs with the various males in my life have always been very positive - aside from those that I dumped for being too cloying.

 

I counselled battered women for many years. Aside from one woman who had substance abuse problems, I don't know of a single case of those women going on to abuse anyone - and I did follow-up monitoring of them for several years in each case. There were a couple who fell back into abusive Rs though - one with the abusive H she'd D'd, which was even worse IMO - but as the abused, rather than the abuser.

 

And I am pretty sure if you actually polled OW you would find that we spend little time actually thinking about the wife.

 

Agreed.

[White Flower]

I've not been betrayed, neither by "the love of my life" nor by "some key male figure", especially not my father. In fact, my Rs with the various males in my life have always been very positive - aside from those that I dumped for being too cloying.

 

I counselled battered women for many years. Aside from one woman who had substance abuse problems, I don't know of a single case of those women going on to abuse anyone - and I did follow-up monitoring of them for several years in each case. There were a couple who fell back into abusive Rs though - one with the abusive H she'd D'd, which was even worse IMO - but as the abused, rather than the abuser.

 

 

 

Agreed.

So agreed.

 

Let me repeat: the H is the one betraying his W, not the OW. No one is abused, just neglected and deceived; all this done by the spouse.

[Fallen Angel]

FA, I appreciate your honesty here. I had to think about your post for a bit before I responded.

 

From what you are saying here, perhaps this is why so many OW believe whatever their MM tells them about the wife or the marriage. Since the wife is not a 'real person' in the OW's minds most of the time (except in those cases where the OW knows the wife), the feelings of the wife are not even considered when in the A.

 

Therefore, the pain and devastation felt by the BW are not real to the OW in many cases. The wife is just same evil person who is keeping the MM in a bad marriage (because this is what is often what is told by the MM) and since she doesn't appear to be a real person to most OW, her pain is discounted and when the BWs hopes and dreams are dashed when the affair is discovered, oh well, she (the BW) isn't a real person anyway.

 

It makes more sense now and explains some of the actions of the OW who wanted my husband.

 

Again, I appreciate your honestly, FA.

 

I don't think of her as some evil person who is keeping him from me, the fact is, he has never really spoken poorly of her, he just doesn't speak much about her at all. She is not a part of MY life, and she is not a part of my life with MM.

 

When he is with me, he is with me. We are not discussing her. He is not dumping his problems with her (or lack thereof) in my lap, he is focused on me.

 

As to her pain, it is not that I can not feel empathy, I can. It is just that I simply can not make her pain somehow MORE real than my own. I feel MY pain. And the truth is, it would be a rare person indeed, who given the choice to suffer angonizing pain, or have that same pain inflicted upon a stranger instead, would choose to feel the pain themselves. (Could you imagine telling the man with the battery cables and a power supply "Hey, don't torture that person over there that I have no emotional connection to, torture me instead!" ?)

 

I would like to say that I was that giving of a soul, but I am not. I love and want this man in my life forever. In order for ME to have that, she would have to lose him. Those are the facts. I am willing to bet that she would not offer him up on a silver platter to me, just to ease MY pain.