Why?

[MizzBlue72]

Wow - this is a topic I always shy away from.....

 

I don't know how I got here, cheating. I was married - end of the marriage, and yes I should have waited until the ink was dry on my divorce papers before I had an affair.

 

I actually put an ad out to find a married discrete man. I wanted someone to have something with .... and I didn't get the emotional, physical, or anything I needed at home.

He gave me all I needed - and more.

 

I am no longer married - he still is. I was married 9 years, he has been married longer. I have a child at home that I am raising alone ... he has none.

 

Are we bad? In most of society's eyes - yes, we are the worst of the worst because we did NOT keep our wedding vows. Do I regret what I did to my husband? No. No no and no. You could ask me this question every day for the rest of my life and it would not change. Why? He has his demons - I had mine. It doesn't make it right, what I did, but I don't regret or feel guilty.

 

Do I regret what I am doing to the MM BS? Yes. They are at a crossroad - either divorce or stay together. He says no option - he is not staying together they are divorcing.... but I don't know if that is true or not, do I?? I hear what he wants me to know. For all I know - he could be using us both. I feel guilty because I have asked him to work things out with his wife and he says he doesn't want to. I feel bad because she should be the one to get the good feelings and good times with him. So yes - I do feel guilty doing this to her.

 

I say love who we love.... and as another poster said on this post 'available is as available does'.

[always_searching]

I love dating MM. Do I think its ok? No. Do I care? No. But I think I’m completely different from the vast majority of posting OW. For me, the most desirable thing about my MM is his M, although his M wasn’t the initial attraction. They have to meet a certain criteria: 25+ my senior, married at least 10yrs, kids, respected job, “good/loving/faithful” father/H. Basically, a portrayal of what a M should be. I love feeling like I broke or am causing him to break what’s considered most sacred of bonds. I get the best high and ego boost in the world from it. It’s like I hold the essence of his W in my hands and at any time (I wouldn’t though) I could peel away every aspect, every thought, every feeling and validation - just that easy - and she doesn’t even know me. I don’t feel any guilt; he’s not going or wants to leave her nor do I want him to (it’s strictly PA), but I don’t think I’d feel guilty even if I did want him. To reiterate, I don’t care. I kinda liken myself to the biblical Jezebel who by manipulation and/or seduction misleads the saints of God into sins of idolatry and sexual immorality, sending them to hell. I’ll probably go there myself for it…Am I bad person for it? No, I’m not an inherently dishonest or blatantly bad person. Is it a bad thing for me to do? Of course.

 

 

Wow.

 

Well, at least you're honest.

 

However, I hate to burst your bubble, but the fact that you see and acknowledge that what you are doing is wrong, yet still revel in your bad actions: yes, that does make you a "bad person." Your actions become you. So, yes, sleeping with married men is a bad action, but if you felt remorse for doing so, I wouldn't necessarily question your character. The fact, however, that you not only continue having affairs, but seem to thoroughly enjoy doing it--getting that rush to your ego, etc.: that makes you a "bad person."

 

Reveling in our wickedness certainly does not make us "good" people.

[skylarblue]

Originally Posted by NowhereToHide

All I can say is wow.

Can I ask what it is in yourself that seeks out that kind of "power"? Because from your posting it sounds like the rush for you is less about being able to "get" the MM, but it's more about being able to take something away from a "happy" woman. And you get an ego boost from being able to lure this man away from his family.

Have you ever had counseling?

I never thought about it as seeking out power or less about being able to "get" the MM, and more about being able to take something away from a "happy" woman. The goal was to “get” the MM, but everything goes hand in hand I guess. I did a thread kinda asking your question. Basically, I do it because it’s a way I like to feel validated. I don’t choose MM that I think are cheaters, too easy, or approach me first. He has to have the “happy, devoted H/ father” persona I mentioned. I have to feel like I have the challenge of making him cheat. If I can’t feel like I’m coming between something important or valued, I’m not interested. Have I ever had counseling? No, but I don’t “need” it. I already know what’s wrong with me.

[skylarblue]

Originally Posted by hopesndreams

You really are on top of your game. Yes I am. You know exactly what you are doing. Yes, I do. Just goes to show there isn't some good in everybody. Some are just plain evil. “Evil”…please. You don’t even know me.

 

Originally Posted by herenow

Believe me honey if you weren't willing, he would find someone else who was. If that gives you the best high and ego boost in the world, then you have some pretty low standards.

Possible, but I don’t think so. I don’t pick that “type” of MM. Even if so, I’m with him now. That’s all I care about. And I can deal with “low standards” as long as I look hot doing it.

 

Originally Posted by always searching

However, I hate to burst your bubble, but the fact that you see and acknowledge that what you are doing is wrong, yet still revel in your bad actions: yes, that does make you a "bad person."

Well, IMO one “bad” act doesn’t necessarily to make you a “bad” person. It doesn’t bother me that posters view me that way. I expect it. I don’t hide who I am on here or in reality. And I don’t have to convince anybody of anything. Define me as you want…

[learnfrommymistakes]

I find it interesting that your angle is to find the most stable person, husband, great guy and then make it your mission to have him question all the good he believes in, to be with you, temporarily. The fact that you have set a list of rules, standards, to lure a man from a life he has tried to live responsibly, it seems just strikes me as a little harsh. Even if you are ok with what you are doing, do you realize the devastation this may cause these (normally good men)? I am sure they enjoy the sex or being pursued strongly, but even if it gets you the ego boost, satisfaction you want, it is aiding in the crumbling of someone elses ego, self respect, etc. Obviously these men are responsbile for their own actions, you did not force them, but i have some concerns about the desire to inflict pain on others. While I am not condoning and affair, nor judging, I do have some concerns about people who choose a life like this, taking what they want all the time, and purposefully f-ing over everyone in the way, and out of the way.

 

I realize that if you live this way, and brag about it, you are ok with it, and revel in it...but you are f-ing with the lives of many other people, perhaps good people. I understand why BS are angry and have bad feelings for OW...I get that. But this is a whole different MO and ego boost, to the extreme.

 

Obviously something or someone hurt you or challenged your self worth and empathy toward other people. I dont have a need to go off or tell you it it bad, but I agree with other posted about counseling. I realize you dont have any regrets, you love being this vixen, luring women, but there is something deep inside you that could use some counseling, help or even if not for yourself, for the people you are using...and taking advantage of.

 

Obviously if this is your high and you are proud of it, you dont want help...you have made it clear this is what drives you and gets you off.

 

I hope and pray someday you can find a way to have more respect for others and yourself, this is sad, scary and really spooky in a way.....I feel badly for all involved....

 

No sense in really trying to get you to see it in another light, but i felt compelled to respond and know that responses like yours can lead to very hurt feelings to BS in general. I am not an angel and I have sinned...but i am just sort of surprised at the post, thats all..and wearing these men like gold medals around you neck, doing everything to exstinguish the competition, like its a sport.

 

BUT what you do affects others, and f-cks with lives, TRU DAT!

I can send hugs like I usually do but i can say at least you are honest....and thats something...

 

peace out....

[learnfrommymistakes]

JaneD

Was thinking about you today and wishing you the best. You seem kind and understanding and that you really want to learn and grow and heal.

 

I give you a lot of credit for being here and being open and willing. My thought is that being so open about your feelings is helpful and a good step, no matter what. You have to take care of you first ...and learn what you need to do for you, and your kids.

 

I hope and pray your marriage works if thats what you want, then God bless

Hug yourself, lean on good friends, and when you have no love for humanity or dont believe in it, it will probably pass. Sit with what you feel, and get it out or meet it head on. I hope over time you will come to see the joy in people and life. When I am feeling like the world is shi**ing on me, and everything looks bleak, I pick a charity online and give some money to a cause, to people who have way less than I do.

 

Even if it is only a dollar, it takes the focus of off my pain and the cruel world sometimes, to just put good intentions out there to others who are struggling too, even more than us.....

 

You have every right to feel the way you do, absolutely...

HUGS

lfmm

[foreal]

JaneDoe, I am so sorry for your pain. Try to remember that if your H was once a good man, he can be again. But he'll have to work hard to get back to it.

 

Some OW may feel they are getting the best parts of a MM, and I am sure some are. But from what I read here and know from life experience, the majority of OW get the absolute dregs.

 

My H's OW got a pathetic, desperate, depressed man. She thought he was at the top of his game, and perhaps to her, that was the best she'd known-

 

In the end, she did not break a thing or cause it to break- he was already broken when she came along. And as far as the OW holding the essence of me, the wife, in her hand? That was my H's dick in her hand, not my essence.

[ladydesigner]

And as far as the OW holding the essence of me, the wife, in her hand? That was my H's dick in her hand, not my essence.

 

:lmao:

[Spark1111]

Touche, Foreal.

 

JaneDoe, i am sorry for your pain. I have lived it.

 

Things that helped me:

 

My 19-year old son said: "Mom, always remember that this had nothing to do with you!"

 

My older daughters: You are the strongest woman I know. You can handle this. We are here for you in anyway you need.

 

I told him if that is who he wanted, go get her. I got busy with my own life, my friends, took classes and worked on me! Went to work, the gym, counseling, out with friends.

 

Tried very hard to avoid him at all costs, except when it came to discussing an aspect of our children's lives.

 

And I, like you, would never entertain a relationship with a taken person.

 

Too much drama, too much heartache.

 

I'm too confident. I want it all: his time, his attention, his love and his body and his committment.

 

I don't share well. If I can't have all of him, I do not want any of him. Sorry, just the way I have always been.

 

Just read the pain here at LS. It can make you scratch your head and wonder.....why?

[learnfrommymistakes]

forreal IN DA' House

That was the best post I have seen yet, lol. "The other woman holding the essence of me...etc.", that was great. Your post was very real, and it really said a lot! I imagine a lot things are well broken before another person steps in! Sure was in my case...but anyway..

Thanks for your honesty, and expressing what you did, I think your post will ring true for a lot of people, whether it be OW or BS....

((hugs)), I like the way you think...

lfmm

[wheelwright]

'Coz they can. What makes people steal, murder, commit arson, assault, and any other number of things that are WRONG? It's what they have going on upstairs and in their hearts and in some cases, there is a moment of insanity or they just plain insane. Good, honest people who are not mentally ill abide by laws and live by a code of ethics. Some people lack those things, are morally corrupt and would never ever admit to it. Some do, of course, and have true remorse for their actions. Your H is broken Jane, you can't fix him and you can't blame someone else for corrupting him. He made the choice, it was his decision. '

 

There are a number of things that interest me about this post.

 

First, that what makes people steal is always WRONG. What about if your children are starving, you live in an unfair society, and your kids are starving? Stealing is pretty ok then by my standards.

 

A code of ethics is not just what tells us is right. E.g our government might tell us torture is acceptable.

 

Corrupted is a very value laden term. Maybe she felt she was fulfilling him. Or experiencing love. Or something else.

 

Hurt is black and white to a degree(?!), but other needs in life are not.

 

What if the people embarking on an A would hurt each other and themselves by not doing it?

 

Hurting can sometimes be a map. Choose your route, who you will hurt or not if the impasse arrives. Make the best of a chess game that someone has to lose in hurt.

 

In an affair, people will all lose and grow, else die.

 

In short, I feel it is negative to say the WS or OW/OM are bad in some way. It doesn't get to the heart of the issue. If love is some kind of aim, then perhaps they need to go there.

 

I agree that hurting other people is wrong, but what if your friend loved your H and you could not accept it. You forbid and blame them, but cannot escape hurting them.

 

Hurt is part of life.

[fooled once]

I truly don't believe the 'person' who claims to like to see out happily married men and put their claws into them and help them destroy their marriage vows.

 

I guess I can't believe there are people in this world who are so vindictive, so hateful, so full of meaness -- I just don't believe it.

 

I do believe some affairs weren't intended to hurt the innocent person. I do believe we DO have control of our emotions; I do believe we as people have free will and we can redirect ourselves if we feel we are doing something morally wrong.

 

I do believe we can find ourselves in love with someone who we hadn't intended to love.

 

Jane Doe --- I am very sorry you are hurting. Just try to realize that you are better off without him. No matter how much you hurt, he nor the person he is with have broken YOU. There is love in this world and there are honorable people. Even people who are with someone who they had an affair with -- while how they got together may not have been ideal or the norm -- what they are building together, as a couple (and no, I am not talking about the OW who are still the dirty secret - I am talking about the OW who are no longer OW, but the W or the ONLY woman in the relationship) is real and is something to cherish.

 

I know trust can be an issue, but with open communication, respect and love, relationships between adults committed to each other ARE beautiful and real. It takes work, but IMHO, it is worth it.

 

I am really saddended to read some of the responses on this thread and don't think I want to read anymore of it.

Edited November 12, 2009 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[herenow]

Originally Posted by herenow

Believe me honey if you weren't willing, he would find someone else who was. If that gives you the best high and ego boost in the world, then you have some pretty low standards.

Possible, but I don’t think so. I don’t pick that “type” of MM. Even if so, I’m with him now. That’s all I care about. And I can deal with “low standards” as long as I look hot doing it.

 

Are you with him? Sweetie as long as he is married and seeing an OW, no woman is really with him. But, if that is what you call "with him", so be it. Such a shame your hottness is wasted on a man who keeps you a secret.

[JaneDoe35]

JaneD

Was thinking about you today and wishing you the best. You seem kind and understanding and that you really want to learn and grow and heal.

 

I give you a lot of credit for being here and being open and willing. My thought is that being so open about your feelings is helpful and a good step, no matter what. You have to take care of you first ...and learn what you need to do for you, and your kids.

 

I hope and pray your marriage works if thats what you want, then God bless

Hug yourself, lean on good friends, and when you have no love for humanity or dont believe in it, it will probably pass. Sit with what you feel, and get it out or meet it head on. I hope over time you will come to see the joy in people and life. When I am feeling like the world is shi**ing on me, and everything looks bleak, I pick a charity online and give some money to a cause, to people who have way less than I do.

 

Even if it is only a dollar, it takes the focus of off my pain and the cruel world sometimes, to just put good intentions out there to others who are struggling too, even more than us.....

 

You have every right to feel the way you do, absolutely...

HUGS

lfmm

 

Thanks for your thoughts LFMM. Your words really touched me.

 

I will somehow heal, not sure exactly how. I know that people heal from worse situations than this so I have no excuse.

 

I have an incredible family and wonderful friends who will do everything to help make sure my daughter and I will be ok.

 

There is really no reason I wont be able to get through. I guess right now it feels almost impossible to overcome this intense pain but it must be possible.

 

I am not perfect and I am sure I made mistakes in my marriage but nothing has prepared me for this. I supported my husband through cancer when he had just turned 28.....I used to lay awake listening to him breathe all night. I know I need to stop thinking of these things.....

 

The giving to charity is a fantastic idea. I need to take the focus off my own problems, even for a short time.....

 

Now I need to go and read your posts to see what your story is....

[JaneDoe35]

I truly don't believe the 'person' who claims to like to see out happily married men and put their claws into them and help them destroy their marriage vows.

 

I guess I can't believe there are people in this world who are so vindictive, so hateful, so full of meaness -- I just don't believe it.

 

Then again, there are pedafiles who seek out to hurt children, there are rapists who seek out to hurt innocent people, there are people who kill for kicks -- I guess there are some who will go after 'happily' married men to ruin their marriage and hurt the innocent wife just for kicks.

 

I do believe some affairs weren't intended to hurt the innocent person. I do believe we DO have control of our emotions; I do believe we as people have free will and we can redirect ourselves if we feel we are doing something morally wrong.

 

I do believe we can find ourselves in love with someone who we hadn't intended to love.

 

Jane Doe --- I am very sorry you are hurting. Just try to realize that you are better off without him. No matter how much you hurt, he nor the person he is with have broken YOU. There is love in this world and there are honorable people. Even people who are with someone who they had an affair with -- while how they got together may not have been ideal or the norm -- what they are building together, as a couple (and no, I am not talking about the OW who are still the dirty secret - I am talking about the OW who are no longer OW, but the W or the ONLY woman in the relationship) is real and is something to cherish.

 

I know trust can be an issue, but with open communication, respect and love, relationships between adults committed to each other ARE beautiful and real. It takes work, but IMHO, it is worth it.

 

I am really saddended to read some of the responses on this thread and don't think I want to read anymore of it.

 

I am also having problems with the person who seeks out happily married men...but I guess she must be real.

 

TRUST - I trusted but now I don't even trust myself....so messed up.

 

LOVE - I truly want to believe but right now I cant, time maybe?

 

HONOURABLE - a word I always used to describe my husband, feel like a fool now.

 

Thanks so much for your post, you think very clearly.

[Fallen Angel]

OP,

 

I know this probably won't help much, but if you read here long enough you will find that some men cheat because they feel there is SOMETHING missing... generally they think it is missing in their marriage, most often it is something missing in THEMSELVES, BUT!!! and this is a huge BUT so please hear it... THEY LOVE THEIR WIVES TOO MUCH TO LEAVE!!!

 

I know it sounds wierd.. but the truth is, they LOVE their wives. Some men stay because of other reasons. But I would say the majority of them stay because they love their wives. They simply are bad at figuring out how to fill what they percieve as a void in their lives, and they use us OW as a way to try to fill it. It is not because they do NOT love their wives.

 

Think about it, if they simply did not love their wife anymore, most men would just up and leave. If your wandering husband is saying he loves you, it is probably very true. And based on what I have read of your posts, it seems you still love him. I implore you to start individual counseling and marriage counseling in an effort to repair the damage that has been done. And know this... if you try, really try to see his affair, as a reflection of what is broken within him, as opposed to what is broken within yourself, then there will be a very good chance that your marriage can not only recover, but flourish into a better marriage than you ever hoped it could be.

 

Regardless of the choices you make from this point, you seem a very intelligent and caring soul. And while coming from someone who is an OW it probably doesn't mean much, I wish you happiness and love. Love that will never again hurt your soul. ((hugs))

[jennie-jennie]

Even people who are with someone who they had an affair with -- while how they got together may not have been ideal or the norm -- what they are building together, as a couple (and no, I am not talking about the OW who are still the dirty secret - I am talking about the OW who are no longer OW, but the W or the ONLY woman in the relationship) is real and is something to cherish.

 

Fooledonce, I am really saddened that you have not by reading the many posts by hurting OW on this forum become more compassionate than to call us "the dirty secret". And yet you were once one of us...

Edited November 12, 2009 by jennie-jennie

[outofthedark]

"Fooledonce, I am really saddened that you have not by reading the many posts by hurting OW on this forum become more compassionate than to call us "the dirty secret". __________________

Unapologetic Other Woman"

 

As the other woman "hiding" our affair and sneaking around, there have been many times I felt like the "dirty little secret". I have to disagree with you UOW. If it weren't a "dirty little secret, there would be no guilt or shame involved and it wouldn't BE a secret!

 

In response to the post though I must say this... there is a difference between a married man and a taken or available man. A taken man isn't available, married or not!

[jennie-jennie]

"Fooledonce, I am really saddened that you have not by reading the many posts by hurting OW on this forum become more compassionate than to call us "the dirty secret". __________________

Unapologetic Other Woman"

 

As the other woman "hiding" our affair and sneaking around, there have been many times I felt like the "dirty little secret". I have to disagree with you UOW. If it weren't a "dirty little secret, there would be no guilt or shame involved and it wouldn't BE a secret!

 

In response to the post though I must say this... there is a difference between a married man and a taken or available man. A taken man isn't available, married or not!

 

I however have never felt like "a dirty little secret" so to me what Fooledonce wrote was an insult. I also have never felt guilt nor shame nor kept my relationship with my MM secret to anybody. Even my elderly parents approve of our relationship - and yes, they have met him even if this was before he was married.

 

The reason my MM keeps me secret is because he is not, at least not yet, ready to let go of his marriage. So it is a secret, yes, but not a dirty secret. The love we feel for each other is as pure as any other love a couple has for each other.

[Canuck1979]

This is to all other women and wives. Not all men cheat! There are plenty out there who are committed and will be faithful. If you have forgiven a straying husband, then good for you. However, I would never be able to live with someone who broke their vow to be committed with me only. Of course, that's my own opinion and everyone's situation is different.

[herenow]

I however have never felt like "a dirty little secret" so to me what Fooledonce wrote was an insult. I also have never felt guilt nor shame nor kept my relationship with my MM secret to anybody. Even my elderly parents approve of our relationship - and yes, they have met him even if this was before he was married.

 

The reason my MM keeps me secret is because he is not, at least not yet, ready to let go of his marriage. So it is a secret, yes, but not a dirty secret. The love we feel for each other is as pure as any other love a couple has for each other.

 

So, let's just take the word dirty out of the quote and call it "a little secret". No matter how you phrase it, your "pure love" isn't strong enough to go public. Why is that? Isn't his love for you enough to give him the strength to "let go of his marriage"? Please don't tell me he stays for his kids, or money, his job, etc. A man who loves a woman owes it to all involved to be honest. It doesn't help his BW, or his kids for him to live a lie. And if money is worth more to him than you are, it's not "pure love". JMO

 

Face it, he stays because that is what he wants to do. Just like he has an OW, because that is what he wants to do. If he wanted to leave, once again, he would do it because it's what he wants do. Obviously he doesn't want to leave his wife. Which is why you are a secret dirty or not. Again JMO.

[outofthedark]

This is to all other women and wives. Not all men cheat! There are plenty out there who are committed and will be faithful. If you have forgiven a straying husband, then good for you. However, I would never be able to live with someone who broke their vow to be committed with me only. Of course, that's my own opinion and everyone's situation is different.

 

Part of love is forgiveness. Many relationships overcome infidelity and become stronger due to forgiveness and understanding and self evaluation. It really is that simple

[Canuck1979]

Part of love is forgiveness. Many relationships overcome infidelity and become stronger due to forgiveness and understanding and self evaluation. It really is that simple

 

Like I said, everyone's situation is different. I know that my relationship with my spouse would not be stronger after he cheated on me. I would always have a lingering distrust of him and I wouldn't be able to live like that.

 

I think the point I was trying to get at is that there are a lot of men out there who don't cheat. Why waste your time on an MM who is known to cheat.

[jennie-jennie]

So, let's just take the word dirty out of the quote and call it "a little secret". No matter how you phrase it, your "pure love" isn't strong enough to go public. Why is that? Isn't his love for you enough to give him the strength to "let go of his marriage"? Please don't tell me he stays for his kids, or money, his job, etc. A man who loves a woman owes it to all involved to be honest. It doesn't help his BW, or his kids for him to live a lie. And if money is worth more to him than you are, it's not "pure love". JMO

 

Face it, he stays because that is what he wants to do. Just like he has an OW, because that is what he wants to do. If he wanted to leave, once again, he would do it because it's what he wants do. Obviously he doesn't want to leave his wife. Which is why you are a secret dirty or not. Again JMO.

 

I suggest you read the same book as I suggested to the OP: Affairs by therapist Emily Brown. I will quote an excerpt from the book which applies to my MM:

 

"The Split Self Affair

 

For Split Selves, the affair is about being fed up with doing marriage 'right'. Both you and your spouse have sacrificed you own feelings and needs to take care of others and the deprivation has been chilling. You're sick of it! The affair begins when someone comes along that stirs the vestiges of life in one of the partners. The affair is serious, long-term, and passionate. Once fully involved, the betraying partner struggles to decide between the spouse and the affair partner. Most often this is a man's affair, but more women than before are having these affairs.

 

This kind of affair is often regarded as a midlife crisis, but it is much more. The roots go back to pressures in childhood to meet the needs of others and put aside your own needs. In contrast, a midlife crisis is situational and develops with the awareness of time passing and things undone."

 

"You've learned from the affair that passion is possible for you. What the affair doesn't do is help you integrate the two halves of yourself: the rational, do-it-right part and the self that has needs and feelings. Your work is to bring the two halves of you together. This requires paying attention to your feelings instead of everyone else's."

 

So you see, herenow, it is not about how strong his love is, it goes way deeper than that.

Edited November 12, 2009 by jennie-jennie

[jennie-jennie]

I think the point I was trying to get at is that there are a lot of men out there who don't cheat. Why waste your time on an MM who is known to cheat.

 

My first SO and I were together for 5 years. He was a serial cheater.

 

My second SO and I were together for 25 years. He was a serial cheater.

 

My MM and I have been together for 4 years. He has cheated on me with his wife. But not any longer.