Are we doomed? Or is it me?

[2sunny]

if he knows you need the whole truth to heal and move forward and he's keeping it from you - that's just completely hurtful to you and the marriage.

 

then on the back side you find new evidence? did you tell him you know this new info?

 

i think he has left himself in a position of not deserving you at all. he is blatantly an obstacle in the happiness of what your marriage could be... for now - it's just all a pretend every day scenario since you don't have anything close to knowing what the truth may or may not be.

 

i don't care how much i loved someone... i would never take that form of abuse (designed to look protective and loving) every day... it's only pretend.

[Spark1111]

Thank you for all the advice.

 

Last night, after his IC, he came and told me of the day's events where a former vendor to his job is hinting at his workplace affair of two years ago.

in an effort to squeeze more work out of the company.

He confessed to his boss and was congratulated for his honesty.

 

It was the right thing to do.

 

Then he came home and told ME about it. I went crazy.

 

Not because it happened. Because i was the last to know.

 

Apparently, after DDay, there was continued contact, most of which I know about. (well, maybe not)

 

But last night I learned, she kept calling him for a recommendation for someone to give her a price on re-doing her wood floors (??????????????). He gave her the name of the vendor who was squeezing him yesterday.

 

He said, "I just wanted to get her off my back." ????????

 

I think I need to separate.

[HarmonyHope]

Thank you for all the advice.

 

Last night, after his IC, he came and told me of the day's events where a former vendor to his job is hinting at his workplace affair of two years ago.

in an effort to squeeze more work out of the company.

He confessed to his boss and was congratulated for his honesty.

 

It was the right thing to do.

 

Then he came home and told ME about it. I went crazy.

 

Not because it happened. Because i was the last to know.

 

Apparently, after DDay, there was continued contact, most of which I know about. (well, maybe not)

 

But last night I learned, she kept calling him for a recommendation for someone to give her a price on re-doing her wood floors (??????????????). He gave her the name of the vendor who was squeezing him yesterday.

 

He said, "I just wanted to get her off my back." ????????

 

I think I need to separate.

 

Wow. He's STILL keeping things from you, still not being completely open and honest. I'm so sorry Spark.

[2sunny]

well now we know that he IS capable of continued contact and hasn't REALLY set to and stuck with a solid boundary for a healthy marriage.

 

he is also capable of the cover up it takes when honesty isn't at the forefront. it always shows up sooner or later and requires either honesty or more cover up.

 

i commend his honesty yesterday, however, it appears to be too little - too late, and i can't say i blame you. from the BS perspective, it is the constant wondering that will kill a marriage. he obviously hasn't been forthcoming, and that will always leave you wondering.

 

in my former marriage, it was the "always wondering" that i didn't want to live with anymore, so we divorced. peace of mind has no price tag and i am much happier to no longer wonder and check on red flags. i feel sad for you, albiet, he could have handled this much better from the start so the marriage could grow and heal in a healthier way.

[FreezorBurn]

I too have outbust of anger and rage at my wife. I am about 4-5 months out and when I can't find her or don't know where she is I get the trigger. When ever she drives to work or goes to a conf. the same thing.

 

I argue and yell at her and ask, was it worth the risk of destorying our family? She has done everything I ask and she is honestly doing everything to keep our marriage together. She gave me all her passwords, so I can check her email and phone and face boook.

 

We are about 4 months out and I really want it to work. However I'm afraid my mood swings and anger+rage will eventually destory our marriage. She has told me she can't take much more and I don't blame her.

 

I have said a lot of things to her I am not proud of... I called her a whore, Tamp and a cheap slut. I told her i think she will F*%k any half decent looking guy at her office. I tell her repeatedly I don't trust her at all. I make her log into her work email so I can read it. Have never and will never physically abuse her but I am abuseing her emotionly.

 

It has been a long 4 months and I hope my anger,hate and resentment wont destory our marriage.

[eeyore1981]

Dear Spark, I have no words of wisdom for you, I just want you to know you aren't alone.

 

I started reading this thread last night, and I couldn't even finish the first page. I ended up riding around for about an hour or so to get myself back together, and have a little peace.

 

I'm a couple months ahead of you on D-day, mine was in Sept. 2 years ago.

 

I totally get what you are saying about the aftermath being the killer. The affair was bad, and knocked me to my knees. I struggled back to my feet just to find out something else and get knocked right back down again, and this happened over and over. I pretty much begged several times after another revelation for him to make it stop, just come clean with it all, and every time he swore that was it, and it wasn't. A couple of months ago, he casually threw out he told in MC intake he loved OW. That was the one thread I was holding on to, that he didn't love her, and he acted like it was no big deal. Now he claims he didn't love her, he just said that because he felt pressured to. Whatever.

 

Now, when this comes up, I talk about how I'm feeling. If he tries to go off into affair details, I tell him to STFU. I gave him 2 years to tell me the damn truth, and as far as I'm concerned he wasted it. I don't like what I have let his actions and behavior turn me into, and I've taken my power back. Like you, I am generally a happy person, I'm actually quite silly and easily amused, and I am reclaiming that person back. I allowed him to keep it all about him, but no more.

 

Also, like you, for some time I felt like my anger and acting out were terrible, and he didn't deserve it, but I don't feel like that anymore. I'm playing the cards he handpicked for me, and IMO, if he doesn't like the outcome, he has no one to blame but himself. It's kind of ironic, because once I was able to get to this point, a lot of my anger has gone away. I felt really bad about myself. I was ignoring the actions of my friends, and when I blew my fog away, I realized how people wanted to be with me and cared about me, so now my outlook is what an idiot my H is for not appreciating the wonderfulness of me. ;-)

[2sure]

Spark.

 

You know that I hear you and I understand.

My marriage , barring a tangible miracle, is over. I'm angry, I'm bitter, but we are still together. Often, I am indifferent which in a sense is a blessing because I dont have that constant knot in my stomach. But more and more I am becoming accepting. Accepting that we didnt work out. Accepting that mistakes have been made. Accepting that I am able to move on..one way or another. I'm still me, changed again of course, but what is life but change?

 

So, on more and more days ...I feel forgiving of him. Part of that is made easier because I see that he has damaged himself, I see that he has issues he cannot cope with. I'm glad I'm not him. He is weaker than I thought, smaller than I thought. I'm stronger. I dont understand what he has done, I am betrayed and MORE...I am frustrated because it was so unnecessary. Thats my rage...it generates from not being able to wrap my head around the why. And that alone...I mean, its not always an answerable question. If I continue to want it answered and explained like an algebra formula...I will continue to be frustrated and enraged.

 

I have pretty much forgiven him. I have sympathy for his insecurities. Still I rage at the invasion of what feels like my privacy.

 

My point Spark - is that maybe you can recognize that the rage does not mean you have not forgiven him. Maybe, if you separate the two...you will allow the forgiveness to grow??

[Spark1111]

Good points Eeyore and 2sure.

 

Right now he is being evacuated from his office because there is a fire....

 

A ton of angry, some funny, texts sent by me to him this morning. Tons...

 

He didn't respond until after like, the 25th text. Typical.

 

It said, "I am so disgusted with myself. I can't lose you in my life."

 

My response:"Sorry, that doesn't help me, not one bit. I told you repeatedly what I know I needed to heal and you simply refused to do it. If I had been completely informed from the beginning, the truth would have helped me heal. Instead, it has been one emotional ambush after another. See this ranting diatribe? Now I will, once again dissolve into tears."

 

Getting off this rollercoaster for good today.

 

But here's funny, earlier in the diatribe: "Okay, I am trying to envision the scenario. Your wife is raging and your children cry in their beds and she empathizes with the "unwavering hostility" (read that in a text from her to him)you are meeting in your attempts to reconcile. 'But, by the way, do you know of a good floor refinisher?'

 

Followed by: "So in the most dramatically painful time in my entire life, the conversation with the fOW was about....wood refinishing? And you couldn't, wouldn't tell me THAT?????"

 

See, I still have my sense of humor. Thank God!

[65tr6]

i think its more painful for him knowing the truth, our M would have a better shot if i had lied and covered some of it.

 

short term, yes the pain is unbearable...long term, you will be glad the truth is out.

 

Lying/trickle truth/incomplete truth after an affair is much worse than the affair itself.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

spark - i really hate to come off as a "debbie downer" when i post to you. i am by no means an xOW trying to stick it to the BS. but for some reason your posts send up a big red flag to me. something doesnt seem quite right. in fact, a lot of the things you say remind me of my exact situation and how my xMM dealt with his wife. so i'll give you my take on todays post.

 

scenario 1: hes just being a dumb male. not man bashing here. maybe he doesnt realize that omitting something as trivial as floor refinishing could be so upsetting to you. sometimes they just dont get it.

 

scenario 2: this was how it was in my situation. he would often "plant" some texts between us that made it appear that the affair was strictly platonic, such as floor refinishing and so on. to try to deflect her feelings. we also had some key terms like "floor refinishing" that also meant other things to us.

 

dont know what is true in your situation, like i said i just get an uneasy feeling. and sorry if its not my business. these are the thoughts that came to my mind.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Good points Eeyore and 2sure.

Right now he is being evacuated from his office because there is a fire....

A ton of angry, some funny, texts sent by me to him this morning. Tons...

He didn't respond until after like, the 25th text. Typical.

It said, "I am so disgusted with myself. I can't lose you in my life."

My response:"Sorry, that doesn't help me, not one bit. I told you repeatedly what I know I needed to heal and you simply refused to do it. If I had been completely informed from the beginning, the truth would have helped me heal. Instead, it has been one emotional ambush after another. See this ranting diatribe? Now I will, once again dissolve into tears."

Getting off this rollercoaster for good today.

But here's funny, earlier in the diatribe: "Okay, I am trying to envision the scenario. Your wife is raging and your children cry in their beds and she empathizes with the "unwavering hostility" (read that in a text from her to him)you are meeting in your attempts to reconcile. 'But, by the way, do you know of a good floor refinisher?'

Followed by: "So in the most dramatically painful time in my entire life, the conversation with the fOW was about....wood refinishing? And you couldn't, wouldn't tell me THAT?????"

See, I still have my sense of humor. Thank God!

 

Spark, in the end it's your call whether to stay or go, but do you know why he cheated?

 

It sounds like he had just landed a better job or something?

[freestyle]

Hi Spark,

 

Sooooooooo sorry you're going through all this pain all over again.

I've followed your story for several months now, can't remember if i ever posted to you or not...........

 

An analogy popped into my head this morning, regarding trickle-truthing.

Maybe if you told it to your H, it could help him to understand what you're going through.Here goes...........:

 

Suppose the dentist told you that all your teeth were beyond redemption,

and every last one of them needed to be pulled. It's a horrible, painful experience, that leaves you bruised, swollen, feeling unattractive, and unable to take in proper nourishment until it heals fully.

 

So, doesn't it make more sense, to pull all the teeth at once? Get it over with, so healing can begin?

 

Telling trickle truths is like pulling one tooth at a time.........it only prolongs the agony, and suffering..........feeling unattractive and miserable, starved for real food.................

 

Whether or not the intentions are cruel, the effect on the person being denied full honesty is cruel.

 

IDK, maybe if you explain it to your H like that?..........maybe you'll strike a nerve, wake up his conscience, hopefully.

 

 

I wish you my best.........(((((hugs))))) FS

[Minnie09]

Guys,

 

sorry if I sound naive, but what kind of honesty is it that you exactly need from your WS? You are talking about "the truth", "details" etc, but I am not sure if I get it. Do you want sex details or what exactly is it?

You know they cheated, you know they are only sorry because they got caught, and you guys are still with them. That's the ugly truth.

What other details do you need? Can you explain? And what's theopinion of a professional MC on that? Do details improve the healing process?

Seriously, even if I did get details from an ex-cheater (and never forget that they are only ex-cheaters because they got caught, otherwise they would continue the affair), I would not believe them.

I don't want to sound harsh, and I do feel for all of you (been there myself), but I need some help understanding your motives/demands.

Thank you!

[FreezorBurn]

Guys,

 

sorry if I sound naive, but what kind of honesty is it that you exactly need from your WS? You are talking about "the truth", "details" etc, but I am not sure if I get it. Do you want sex details or what exactly is it?

You know they cheated, you know they are only sorry because they got caught, and you guys are still with them. That's the ugly truth.

What other details do you need? Can you explain? And what's theopinion of a professional MC on that? Do details improve the healing process?

Seriously, even if I did get details from an ex-cheater (and never forget that they are only ex-cheaters because they got caught, otherwise they would continue the affair), I would not believe them.

I don't want to sound harsh, and I do feel for all of you (been there myself), but I need some help understanding your motives/demands.

Thank you!

 

 

When you have a Soul mate, someone you have been threw thick and thin with. Someone you have let down your guard and gave everything too, emotionally and physically.

 

Then they turn there back on you and betray you. Then your answer would be clear as day.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Guys,

sorry if I sound naive, but what kind of honesty is it that you exactly need from your WS? You are talking about "the truth", "details" etc, but I am not sure if I get it. Do you want sex details or what exactly is it?

You know they cheated, you know they are only sorry because they got caught, and you guys are still with them. That's the ugly truth.

What other details do you need? Can you explain? And what's theopinion of a professional MC on that? Do details improve the healing process?

Seriously, even if I did get details from an ex-cheater (and never forget that they are only ex-cheaters because they got caught, otherwise they would continue the affair), I would not believe them.

I don't want to sound harsh, and I do feel for all of you (been there myself), but I need some help understanding your motives/demands.

Thank you!

 

Put some thought into it!

 

When someone goes out and does something like that which is so contrary to who you thought they were... it leaves a huge knowledge/intimacy gap. People tend to respond to that by wanting to know everything... they are trying to figure out the truth about who they are in a relationship with.

 

In addition there is a kneejerk reaction to blame yourself. So they want to know WHY this happened.

 

It's really easy to understand if you can put yourself in their shoes.

[Spark1111]

spark - i really hate to come off as a "debbie downer" when i post to you. i am by no means an xOW trying to stick it to the BS. but for some reason your posts send up a big red flag to me. something doesnt seem quite right. in fact, a lot of the things you say remind me of my exact situation and how my xMM dealt with his wife. so i'll give you my take on todays post.

 

scenario 1: hes just being a dumb male. not man bashing here. maybe he doesnt realize that omitting something as trivial as floor refinishing could be so upsetting to you. sometimes they just dont get it.

 

scenario 2: this was how it was in my situation. he would often "plant" some texts between us that made it appear that the affair was strictly platonic, such as floor refinishing and so on. to try to deflect her feelings. we also had some key terms like "floor refinishing" that also meant other things to us.

 

dont know what is true in your situation, like i said i just get an uneasy feeling. and sorry if its not my business. these are the thoughts that came to my mind.

 

I appreciate your honesty, and you are not a debbie downer.

 

Yes, I understand he could have been a dumb male, but he has had two years of emotional devastation before his eyes while professing his love for me. Think he could have educated him self if he was sincere? I do.

 

And yes, he called her a Dean, as in college professor, and let me assume it was a man. I was happy he had made a friend at work. How naive. I don't think he had to further cover the affair. I thought it was man who called all the time. How sweet.

 

I do not think they are in contact, but hell, I could be wrong.

[Spark1111]

Hi Spark,

 

Sooooooooo sorry you're going through all this pain all over again.

I've followed your story for several months now, can't remember if i ever posted to you or not...........

 

An analogy popped into my head this morning, regarding trickle-truthing.

Maybe if you told it to your H, it could help him to understand what you're going through.Here goes...........:

 

Suppose the dentist told you that all your teeth were beyond redemption,

and every last one of them needed to be pulled. It's a horrible, painful experience, that leaves you bruised, swollen, feeling unattractive, and unable to take in proper nourishment until it heals fully.

 

So, doesn't it make more sense, to pull all the teeth at once? Get it over with, so healing can begin?

 

Telling trickle truths is like pulling one tooth at a time.........it only prolongs the agony, and suffering..........feeling unattractive and miserable, starved for real food.................

 

Whether or not the intentions are cruel, the effect on the person being denied full honesty is cruel.

 

IDK, maybe if you explain it to your H like that?..........maybe you'll strike a nerve, wake up his conscience, hopefully.

 

 

I wish you my best.........(((((hugs))))) FS

 

Hey freestyle, I have told him how cruel he is by withholding. I have written countless emails, cried.

TO PROTECT ME, he omitted certain details I later stumbled upon. A knife through the heart, once again. Recovery clock set squarely back to zero.

 

I feel like I have to separate so I do not lose my mind. Meeting the IC today right after work.

[Spark1111]

Spark, in the end it's your call whether to stay or go, but do you know why he cheated?

 

It sounds like he had just landed a better job or something?

 

There was a lot of residual anger leftover from his down time, in pain, unemployed ..towards me, the children, our friends.

 

Yes, he got a better job and crashed into her while working on a new project. She had been through a bitter divorce and was a lonely single mom.

 

It really sounds like a pity party for two. He became her knight in shining armor....at a cost. Lots and lots of money, trips, gifts, dinners....money I did not even know we had.

 

In retrospect, they had an enormous amount of fun on his dime. To hear that she was hounding him at DDay about floor refinishing...just further proves that he was in love....and she was an opportunist. Who the hell knows or cares anymore.

[bentnotbroken]

I wish I could help you Spark. I don't what else to do other than pray. I feel so bad for you, whatever you need to heal is the right thing to do.

[Spark1111]

Guys,

 

sorry if I sound naive, but what kind of honesty is it that you exactly need from your WS? You are talking about "the truth", "details" etc, but I am not sure if I get it. Do you want sex details or what exactly is it?

You know they cheated, you know they are only sorry because they got caught, and you guys are still with them. That's the ugly truth.

What other details do you need? Can you explain? And what's theopinion of a professional MC on that? Do details improve the healing process?

Seriously, even if I did get details from an ex-cheater (and never forget that they are only ex-cheaters because they got caught, otherwise they would continue the affair), I would not believe them.

I don't want to sound harsh, and I do feel for all of you (been there myself), but I need some help understanding your motives/demands.

Thank you!

 

Minnie, for almost two years, I thought he was working late to build his business, business trips on weekends, etc. when he was really just having a typical, run-of-the sordid mill affair with a lonely, horny divorced co-worker.

 

For two years, she heard about the most intimate aspects of MY life, my job, my children, my family, our sick aunt, my father-in-laws death, etc.

 

I threw him out at DDay and said go get her. Guess what? He didn't want her. I reluctantly took him back because I did love him and so wanted to make this work.

 

I deserve to know the details to fill in the gaps in my heart and my head if we truly were going to be successful. We are not making it right now.

 

Maybe, we never will.