Are we doomed? Or is it me?

[Spark1111]

Today, I am dealing with monumental resentment.

 

It is two years past DDAy, and the handling of the aftermath seems to have hurt more than the affair, which was devastating.

 

There have been trickle truths and omissions, the stumbling on receipts and gifts, money I never even knew we had in a bank account.

 

This after begging for all his secrets, two weeks after I allowed him to move back in. Lets get it ALL out in the open and cry and fight and heal.

 

In addition, during the affair time he grew angry and blaming and oh so critical of I and our older children. No one could do anything good enough, right enough, by him.

 

We chalked it up to the pressures of a new high-powered job as we all tried to grow debt-free after many hard years.

 

The affair years were a time of hope in my heart that we had turned a corner and all would be better for us. How naive.

 

I can't look at a picture of us as a family during that time, and not think of the affair. It kills me. I can think of so many functions he could not attend due to business trips, now knowing he was with her....and it kills me.

 

Every where I go, people praise my wonderful children and how happy and devoted my husband and I were to each other.....and it kills me.

 

My personal history, my children's perception of their lives, has been forever altered....and that kills me.

 

We were at a casino after a great day, and we separated to play different games. After 45 minutes, I asked him to join me. Forty-five minutes after that, I went up to bed angry. When he joined me in the room, I was raging.

 

Being alone and ignored is a huge trigger for his affair.

 

It's still killing me, although I apologized for my outburst the next morning.

 

If my marriage ends at this point, either I helped to kill it, or my resentment did.

 

What is wrong with me? How do you handle this? I can't seem to forgive it, though we have wonderful loving days together.

 

I am past the affair. The aftermath was disasterous.

 

Help!

[Gabriele]

Oh how I feel for you....this is exactly what I fear...just being so hurt and devastated, that I won't ever not be triggered with the full scope of hurt. My question to you is, have you had counseling for yourself? how about marriage counseling? Sounds like you need to talk with someone to help work through these feelings. How does your husband respond to you when you get so upset? has he been there for you with this hurt and done his part to help you heal and regain your love and trust?

 

Gabriele

[HarmonyHope]

I firmly believe that there are somethings in life that are just so enormous, so painful, that they will always be with us. Ongoing resentment can chip away at your relationship and recreate the conditions that were present for the affair, in one or both of you. At this point in my life I've learned that constant or even near-always happiness isn't attainable. I think it's about achieving moments of extreme happiness in a life that is moderately happy most of the time. I think that's about as much as we can ask for. Are you finding that your resentment is sapping your ability to be moderately happy most of the time?

[PhoenixRise]

Spark

 

I am so sorry that you are still going through this.

 

For as long as I have been here at LS (mostly lurking) you have been here trying to figure out what to do with the mess that was dropped into your lap with the fall out from your H affair.

 

It seems to me Spark that all you have wanted is for your H to show the kind of honesty, transparency and integrity that would make you feel safe to fully allow him back into your heart.

 

In this regard he keeps disappointing you.

 

Spark I think you need to take a step back. Do the really hard thing and examine honestly if your H is capable of giving you the kind of openness and honesty that you need to recover from the mess he made. Honestly, I think that kind of honesty can't be cajoled out of anybody, they have to want to give it. They have to be willing to risk being open and laid bare. They have to be willing to risk rejection. Is your H capable of taking that kind of risk?

 

Yes he loves you.....as best as he can.... but maybe this is not enough for you.

 

Are you afraid that he is still cheating?

Are you afraid that he has not done the necessary work to heal himself so that he can be the kind of H you deserve?

 

How long are you willing to work at saving this marriage?

 

(((Spark))))) I really hope this gets better for you.

[PhoenixRise]

AND Spark

 

 

If you are not in IC maybe you should think about it. You have naturally been focused on saving the marriage....but maybe you should shift your focus a little. Go to IC and focus on your own healing. Because no matter what happens in your marriage YOU need to be whole.

[silktricks]

I feel for you Spark. The trickle truths are killers. People who are in the affairs, I believe, convince themselves that they are "protecting" their spouse by not telling them all of the horrid details. Of course, they are really protecting themselves. Getting set back to zero because of story changes is more than difficult, it is devastating.

 

I wish I had some instant "cure" that you could take and be well. I don't. I can tell you, that at 2 years I was probably in just about the same place you are. I would hit some type of trigger and just fall apart. I had a picture of my husband at my desk - one day I realized that when that picture was taken he was seeing the other woman. After I calmed down (he told me to throw it away), I realized that I really like that picture. He was with me when I took it and he's with me now... I still have that picture on my desk .

 

I guess what I'm saying is that at this point there is nothing you can do to change the past, other than realize that it is past. Obsessing won't undo anything, nothing will undo anything. You do, though, need to decide if you want to stay married to him. At least to me, at least in this post, you sound somewhat doubtful. If you want to stay married you will need to take better care of yourself and what your mind is doing to you.

 

you said in your post

I can't look at a picture of us as a family during that time, and not think of the affair. It kills me. I can think of so many functions he could not attend due to business trips, now knowing he was with her....and it kills me.

 

Every where I go, people praise my wonderful children and how happy and devoted my husband and I were to each other.....and it kills me.

 

My personal history, my children's perception of their lives, has been forever altered....and that kills me.

 

You know the old saying "if life hands you lemons, make lemonade" regardless of whether you stay married or divorce, you need to take that saying to heart. Bad things happen in life - everyone's life - sometimes really bad things, but at some point you/we/everyone must let go of the pain and angst of those times, otherwise you/we simply turn bitter. So, you can continue to let those triggers kill you, or you can say "this is what we were and it was bad, we can be so much better and I want to be a part of making that new life"... or you can decide that you simply cannot deal with the recurring memories and forge a new life.

 

I'm going to PM you, too...

[Blindsidedagainalive]

I can relate to your feelings as a betrayed spouse...also 2 years out.

 

Basically, we have to accept that we cannot mold a person into something we want.

 

We need to communicate our needs clearly. Desired changes and necessary changes from our spouse. For example, lying and cheating I am sure is a necessary change. Being late is probably not a deal breaker.

 

"we separated to play different games. After 45 minutes, I asked him to join me. Forty-five minutes after that, I went up to bed angry. When he joined me in the room, I was raging"

 

You were raging because it was a trigger. It's a lack of trust combined with an insensitivity to your feelings. In this case however, casinos are filled with a lot of distractions and time moves quickly. Forty-five late is easy to imagine in that environment. Forty-five late while you are waiting for him to pick you up in a dangerous neighborhood is another story.

 

They will never meet all of our needs. You need to decide if he is trying to meet your necessary needs.

 

Have you clearly told him what you need to recover?

 

In my case, I told my WW very clearly what I needed and she still won't do it. She wants the relationship, she wants me...so she just kisses my ass. So, I tell you what is going to happen. I am gearing up my life to make the break when I am completely ready (financially etc).

 

Then, I will drop the bomb on her. My target date is Summer/2011.

 

You need to restore your self esteem and please consider IC.

[Spark1111]

Oh how I feel for you....this is exactly what I fear...just being so hurt and devastated, that I won't ever not be triggered with the full scope of hurt. My question to you is, have you had counseling for yourself? how about marriage counseling? Sounds like you need to talk with someone to help work through these feelings. How does your husband respond to you when you get so upset? has he been there for you with this hurt and done his part to help you heal and regain your love and trust?

 

Gabriele

 

I want to go back to marriage counseling, only with a new counselor!

 

I have been attending individual counseling since BEFORE the affair. I begged him to come with me. He refused.

 

No, he does not help me work through these feelings.

 

He has been a changed man, and wants to NOW (since 5 months after DDAy) be judged by his actions, not his past. Loving, kind, considerate, generous, until.....I bring up the affair!

 

As long as I am happy with him, it is all good. The minute I try to talk of the past, he grows defensive, or angry, or runs away, or now, cannot remember or responds "I answered that question already."

 

He is fearful I will leave him or outgrow him, but I want him to grow with me.

 

I need to talk about it to heal. His remorse is so great, he crumples and does not.

 

It still seems to be all about him, still!

 

He can't handle the truth. His own. Where does this leave me?????

[Spark1111]

I firmly believe that there are somethings in life that are just so enormous, so painful, that they will always be with us. Ongoing resentment can chip away at your relationship and recreate the conditions that were present for the affair, in one or both of you. At this point in my life I've learned that constant or even near-always happiness isn't attainable. I think it's about achieving moments of extreme happiness in a life that is moderately happy most of the time. I think that's about as much as we can ask for. Are you finding that your resentment is sapping your ability to be moderately happy most of the time?

 

No harmony, it does not sap my ability to be happy most of the time. I am one lucky individual in that I was born happy.

 

What scares me is this from the toes rage that just.....takes over all rationale. Not as often as it use to, but it is still there, hard to control and scary as hell.

 

Even HE, does not deserve it and I told him so.

 

I just want it to end.

[Snowflower]

(((Spark)))

 

I hope you guys do go to MC. It sounds like there are still unresolved issues for you, which is completely understandable.

 

I lurk here most of the time and don't post all that often anymore...probably because I'm dealing with my own stuff at the one year mark of d-day. It has been a terrible month for me with the triggers.

 

But, I have read your posts and what a difficult time you have had with coming to grips with what your husband did. From one BS to another, it doesn't seem like your husband is doing all that he can to help you through.

 

I will send you a PM.

 

Take care!

[foreal]

(((SPARK)))

 

Have you told your H that w/o him getting into therapy, w/o him delving into himself, your relationship cannot move forward?

 

Have you told him how resentful you are?

 

Have you told him how hurt you are when he dismisses your pain? B/c that is what he is doing when he runs away, gets defensive etc.....

 

Have you told him you want to grow WITH him, and in order to do that he must HOLD YOUR PAIN?

 

If you have not told him these things, then maybe you should give him the opportunity to hear them?

 

 

If you've given him the flashlight, you've turned the switch to "on"; if you've pointed to the light at the end of the tunnel and said, "hear, this way"; and yet if he still refuses to open his eyes...

 

If you have told him these things, and he just wants to forge ahead while you remain behind, holding all the pain, then I am not sure what else you can do other than what you've been doing.

 

Tell him you want to give him the opportunity, of holding your pain- as it has become too heavy for you....

 

 

(((Spark)))

[Spark1111]

Spark

 

 

Yes he loves you.....as best as he can.... but maybe this is not enough for you.

 

Are you afraid that he is still cheating?

Are you afraid that he has not done the necessary work to heal himself so that he can be the kind of H you deserve?

 

How long are you willing to work at saving this marriage?

 

(((Spark))))) I really hope this gets better for you.

 

Yes, maybe he will never be able of the openess and honesty i seek and I ask myself everyday, can I live with that.

 

Who the hell knows???????????????

 

And yes, if we cannot even have conversation, easy or otherwise, I AM NOT reassured that he has done the necessary work to heal himself, so that I can have a future with him!

 

He is so mired in his own guilt, it is still somewhat ALL ABOUT HIM.

 

When I hurt, I need to talk. I need his compassion to help me heal, especially since he was the source of the pain.

 

His response: It's my fault. Or, I can't do anything right I guess? Ugh!

 

 

 

 

Do I think he is still cheating now? NO!

 

Could he in the future??? Who knows???

 

I'd like to think not, but....

[Spark1111]

I

Have you clearly told him what you need to recover?

 

In my case, I told my WW very clearly what I needed and she still won't do it. She wants the relationship, she wants me...so she just kisses my ass. So, I tell you what is going to happen. I am gearing up my life to make the break when I am completely ready (financially etc).

 

Then, I will drop the bomb on her. My target date is Summer/2011.

 

You need to restore your self esteem and please consider IC.

 

Yes....he meets many needs where before he did not.

 

My primary need to heal was to talk about it. He has never once brought it up in conversation. Not once.

 

I have a hundred emails with a hundred questions he just promised to answer later or ignored.....

 

And like you, he wants me, wants the relationship and also.....kisses my ass.

 

But I am looking for introspection here! He will discourse to no end how deeply depressed he was.....as if that was an excuse. It is a contributary factor, but excuse? That doesn't reassure me. What is hets depressed again??????

[Spark1111]

(((SPARK)))

 

Have you told your H that w/o him getting into therapy, w/o him delving into himself, your relationship cannot move forward?

 

Have you told him how resentful you are?

 

Have you told him how hurt you are when he dismisses your pain? B/c that is what he is doing when he runs away, gets defensive etc.....

 

Have you told him you want to grow WITH him, and in order to do that he must HOLD YOUR PAIN?

 

If you have not told him these things, then maybe you should give him the opportunity to hear them?

 

 

If you've given him the flashlight, you've turned the switch to "on"; if you've pointed to the light at the end of the tunnel and said, "hear, this way"; and yet if he still refuses to open his eyes...

 

If you have told him these things, and he just wants to forge ahead while you remain behind, holding all the pain, then I am not sure what else you can do other than what you've been doing.

 

Tell him you want to give him the opportunity, of holding your pain- as it has become too heavy for you....

 

 

(((Spark)))

 

So true.....I said today I need you to grow with me. He has been in IC, and is starting at the beginning, the early years. He has been a better husband is every way except self-disclosure.

 

I do not believe I know everything. Hell, I just found out he moved in with her for two weeks after DDAy while I thought he was at one hotel after another. I JUST FOUND THIS OUT two weeks ago. Isn't that something I should have known after I allowed him to move back in two years ago????

[bentnotbroken]

Spark, I am sorry you aren't where you need to be. Don't let go yet. Make sure you have tried everything.

[PhoenixRise]

Most definitely try another MC.

 

Spark it is possible that your H feels that the truth is so horrible that you won't be able to forgive it if you know it all. It is possible that he thinks he is protecting your marriage by keeping you in the dark about the details.

 

It is possible that he just doesn't get it.

 

You can't forgive and let it go until you know what you are letting go of.

You can't trust him until you see him being willing to tell the truth even when it could cost him dearly to do so.

 

Have you told him that his unwillingness to talk about it is eroding your marriage?

 

Have you told him that you can get past the affair but his handling of the AFTERMATH is putting you at the end of your rope?

[mybrowneyedgirl]

maybe i can shed some light on this. maybe its not my place. i am the terrible OW.

 

my xMM has not told his wife the truth. for multiple reasons. for one i think it hurts him too much to be honest as hes already seen the pain hes caused her. for two i think she would leave him if she knew all and he's fully aware of that. but his reason is that she already knows what hes done, why pain her more with the details. she knows he did it so they can work through those issues and try to move past it.

 

i dont necessarily agree with him but i do see his point. i struggle from the other side where my H knows ever last detail. i think its more painful for him knowing the truth, our M would have a better shot if i had lied and covered some of it.

 

so as my xMM says if your heart is in the right place and you are commited to doing whats right and you really want to be with the spouse than what harm does it do by not revealing all?

 

i would also like to say that im sorry that you are still going through this. i hope that each day gets better.

[JaneInVegas]

Spark, I'm so sorry for your pain. I know how you feel and it's really, really hard.

 

I haven't learned a lot in Life, but one thing I think I've learned pretty well is one of the inherent differences in men and women - we women want to talk and process it out, think about it, stew about, then talk and process about it some more. I have a very hard time with that, and I've driven a couple of men insane with it.

 

I suspect your husband has reached his saturation point, and when you bring it up again, he just gets frustrated. A lot of men do want to be judged by what is going on today ... not in the past. Some men deserve it, some don't. I have no idea which category your husband falls into (sorry, just skimmed through most of the posts in this thread).

 

Here is a suggestion, take it for what it's worth. It worked for me 1 out of 3 times I tried it. I sat down and said, "Look, you want me to never bring this up again? Then TALK to me about it, and answer my questions to my satisfaction and I promise I will never bring it up again!"

 

If you don't think that scenario would work for you ... maybe you do need a lot more processing time ... then I would suggest the counseling. I did read that you wanted a different counselor, keep switching until you find a good fit!

 

Best of luck to you, I hope you find the peace you're searching for. HUGS

[bentnotbroken]

maybe i can shed some light on this. maybe its not my place. i am the terrible OW.

 

my xMM has not told his wife the truth. for multiple reasons. for one i think it hurts him too much to be honest as hes already seen the pain hes caused her. for two i think she would leave him if she knew all and he's fully aware of that. but his reason is that she already knows what hes done, why pain her more with the details. she knows he did it so they can work through those issues and try to move past it.

 

i dont necessarily agree with him but i do see his point. i struggle from the other side where my H knows ever last detail. i think its more painful for him knowing the truth, our M would have a better shot if i had lied and covered some of it.

 

so as my xMM says if your heart is in the right place and you are commited to doing whats right and you really want to be with the spouse than what harm does it do by not revealing all?

 

i would also like to say that im sorry that you are still going through this. i hope that each day gets better.

 

 

First and foremost, why is it okay to make the decision to betray another human being and then make the decision not to tell that human so they can decide for them self whether they want to stay. I will never for the life of me figure out how it is okay to lie and deceive another and then lie for years by omission. How is that a real marriage or real respect for the person they say they loved enough to screw around on?

 

I understand you have told your H, for that I think in the long run will work in your favor and his. Rebuilding trust isn't doing the easy thing for one's self. It is doing the right thing for the person that was betrayed.

 

And just a word that may help you. Don't try to figure out what more painful for him. As a fbs, the lies are more painful and lasting than the actual affair itself. It means that the lack of respect continues.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

bent i understand where youre coming from. but sometimes it seems harder to repair a few years worth of damage from an affair while i could have lied like xmm and only had to repair a few encounters worth.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

and sorry spark...didnt mean to highjack the thread.

[bentnotbroken]

bent i understand where youre coming from. but sometimes it seems harder to repair a few years worth of damage from an affair while i could have lied like xmm and only had to repair a few encounters worth.

 

 

Of course it's hard. If someone told you that you had a million dollars free and clear, but you had to work by digging it out of a garbage dump, would you do it? You know what you have with your H, you know the person you married, you know that life gets messy...now how do you respond. With dignity, respect and honor(not only for you H but yourself) or do you go on with your life hoping that nothing comes along to tumble your house of cards and the fall out will be 10 times worse. That's the choice the donkey made, covered his own @$$.

[bentnotbroken]

and sorry spark...didnt mean to highjack the thread.

 

 

I too apologize. Spark I pray you find a new counselor. OXOXOXO

[PhoenixRise]

bent i understand where youre coming from. but sometimes it seems harder to repair a few years worth of damage from an affair while i could have lied like xmm and only had to repair a few encounters worth.

 

 

Hang in there BEG

 

I know it seems like it could have been easier to lie to your H and just hope you could get away with it...but as a BS who has recovered the marriage I truly believe that if you and your H put in the necessary work... your honesty now will go a long way toward rebuilding your H trust in you.

 

I wouldn't want the kind of recovery your xMM is having with his wife, if he does not respect her enough to tell her the truth he is not worthy of her forgiveness or a second chance.

 

Truly, I think if your H asked you questions and you evaded or lied, it would have been the death knell of your M. Maybe not immediately, but eventually it would have come back to bite you. AND it is possible that your H would be having the same kind of problems with you 2 years past dday that Spark is having with her H.

 

Having an affair is disrespectful in the extreme, continuing to lie after dday when the BS is trying to recover just compounds the disrespect.

 

As hard as things are right now try not to second guess your decision to respect your H enough to give him the information he asked for.

[jwi71]

He has been a better husband is every way except self-disclosure.

 

Been worried about you awhile now Spark. These posts do little to assuage it.

 

The ONLY reason he ISN'T talking is because he has something to hide.

 

I'm sorry for that. I truly am. But its the truth.

 

If he had nothing more to hide, he would open up. He would talk.

 

You know, when I was still trying to recover from my now xW's A, I resorted to taking notes. I had to. I would get the same "I don't know", the same "I don't remember" the same "I already answered that and I'm not doing it again". The same avoidance of the past. The same, just move on already. I began to think that I was the one retarding reconciliation. That was my fault for NOT moving on - kinda like you are doing now.

 

Well...the notes...my handwritten notes. They told the truth over time. Suddenly cracks began to appear, details changed...a clear pattern of continued lies and deceit emerged. She was still lying. Still omitting facts. Still obscuring HER actions. Still manipulating me (with lies).

 

I do not believe I know everything.

Only what HE wants you to know I'm afraid.

 

Hell, I just found out he moved in with her for two weeks after DDAy while I thought he was at one hotel after another. I JUST FOUND THIS OUT two weeks ago. Isn't that something I should have known after I allowed him to move back in two years ago????

Yeah, btdt. You need to know whatever you decide you need to know. His role is to answer...with the 100% whole and complete truth. You are NOT the one failing...he is.

 

And you know it. You sense it. You tell yourself otherwise but the feelings don't recede. I understand...been there myself.

 

I truthfully don't think another MC is the path. You aren't the broken one. You aren't the evasive one.

 

If I were you, I would file for legal separation. Or unofficially separate after speaking with a lawyer. Perhaps what you BOTH need is 90 days apart...NC. No dating, no cheating...90 days living apart. To focus. To reflect. To see if the absence reminds you each of what once was. To see if you can reclaim it.

 

It maybe that in your absence, he rediscovers what is important.

Or maybe you both, having been out of the situation, can look back and see that it's not worth saving.

 

My .02

 

JW