Frustrating sort-of breakup

[reservoirdog1]

Been with my GF since February. It took a few months before we even called each other BF/GF; she's a single mom with a 17-year-old daughter and has been independent since her teens. Allowing herself to become emotionally connected to somebody else has been a challenge for her. But it broke through, and we "declared" ourselves to be a couple. I'm in love with her, and she with me.

 

I have two kids, B8 and G12. My kids really like her.

 

Naturally, GF and I have talked about our respective children, and she's had some insights on things to expect when raising an almost-teenaged girl. Periodically, she's made these comments in a rather pushy and opinionated way. A few have been along the lines of "you have no idea what's coming at you... she's about to be a teenager, she's going to be a handful."

 

My daughter has been a pretty easy kid to deal with overall, no real problems encountered so far. GF raised her own daughter somewhat differently than I would have thought to, though apparently quite successfully. Her daughter seems basically even-tempered and well-adjusted.

 

Anyway, GF has mentioned a couple of times to me that my daughter's occasionally been a bit rude around her (things like not respecting personal space, a bit lippy, that sort of thing). My daughter, however, has made it clear that she really likes GF (if GF is coming over late at night and my daughter knows this, she'll purposely keep herself awake so she can see her. Whenever my kids are with me, my daughter will ask if we'll be seeing my GF).

 

On Saturday night, GF came over quite late, and my daughter got up to see her. My daughter made a comment to GF which was somewhat disrespectful, though certainly not objectively nasty. Daughter wasn't feeling great physically, so she excused herself to go to the bathroom. While she was doing so, GF left because of my daughter's comment, in a bit of a huff. I tried to get her to stay but she left anyway.

 

So, I went to bed. A few minutes later, GF called and said we should break up. Much conversation ensued, during which she basically set out that it's clear my daughter is going to become disrespectful towards her, that she didn't want to be part of that because it was going to make my daughter, her and me all miserable and probably kill our relationship at some point anyway, and that it was best to break up now rather than all of us going through that later anyway. The sentiment was best summed up by one sentence from her: "I'm not breaking up because of you -- it's because of D".

 

Very shortly after that conversation ended, she called back and backpedalled somewhat, saying maybe we could put things on hold for a few weeks with us and see what develops, i.e. I see what I can do with my daughter and we talk about trying to keep things going. She added that she was not optimistic but wanted to try this.

 

I agreed to this, because I love her very much and don't want to give up on this when the problem isn't specifically between her and me. Yesterday, GF emailed me an internet article about building good relationships between parent and daughter. But today, I'm feeling pretty miserable. I fully expect GF to call me today or tomorrow, telling me she misses me and that she's feeling miserable herself. And I have no idea what may or may not happen in "a few weeks" -- obviously my daughter won't have changed overnight by then.

 

Forgot to mention. Yesterday morning I sat down with my daughter and discussed with her what she'd said to GF, why she'd said it, etc. My daughter said that she does really like GF, but for reasons that have nothing to do specifically with GF, she worries that GF is going to turn out to be another ___ (my ex-GF with whom I broke up in 2008 rather tumultuously).

 

I don't know what to do about any of this. I haven't talked to anybody, because honestly I don't really think it's actually over. I just needed to vent. I'd love to hear anybody's thoughts. Sorry if this is rambling and hard to follow.

 

Thanks...

[Tincup]

I am going through something very similar to you. I am in your shoes but I was the one to break things up with my GF. I am not really sure what to say to you, just wanted you to know that you are not alone in this situation. I look forward to reading other reply's. Remember that there are many differnt ways to raise kids. You have to do things the way you need to when it comes to your kids.

[Art_Critic]

First off.. Sorry..

 

I'm no wizard of advice in this area, but do think at this point if things are going to work out it needs to be done as a collaborative group.

Since you have spoken to D about this then maybe you 3 should get together about this and then let your son be part of it.

 

10-1 your daughter is afraid of replacing her Mom and that is why the quick rejection and maybe if you all talk about those things they will smooth out.

 

Your GF wanting to breakup over this seems a bit quick triggered or knee jerk considering she has her own child and most likely has dealt with this some during her life.

Maybe she needs some reassurance that your Daughter doesn't really hate her..

 

Hope things work out..

[marlena]

I understand why you call this a frustrating break up. I, too, would feel frustrated both at my partner and my daughter. It doesn't sound like a serious reason to break up unless of course you are looking for a pretext to do so. Just something to think about.

 

I would sit my daughter down and let her know in no uncertain terms that you will NOT put up with any disrespect from her towards your girlfriend or anyone for that matter. She needs to be taught boundaries and making disrespectful remarks to an adult who treats her well is crossing the line. She also needs to respect your choices.

 

Now, if your girfriend were treating her badly maybe I could understand your daughter's behaviour. But this is not the feeling I get from your post.

 

One thing I have noticed is that children tend to be very protective and possessive towards divorced parents. I know my daughter was and still is. Still this does not justify outright rudeness and bad behaviour. She needs to mind her manners regardless of how she feels about your girl friend. If she has any objections to your relationship, she can talk to you about them without resorting to insults.

 

Perhaps your daughter needs reassurance. She may see your girlfriend as a threat in which case you have to make it abundantly clear that your love for her is and always be intact and that she will always come first in your life. Perhaps you could explain to her that there are different kinds of love and that one does not detract from the other.

 

As for your girlfriend, she reacted rather hastily and immaturely in my opinion. Unless of course like I said previously your daughter is constantly being disrespectful and making snide and nasty remarks to her. If not, she should know, considering that she herself is the mother of a teen, that this particular species is often difficult displaying all sorts of erratic and defiant behaviour.

 

If she loves you and really wants to invest in this relationship, she will exercise tolerance and display understanding of both your position and that of your daughters.

 

One thing is for sure, walking away never solves a thing.

Edited November 9, 2009 by marlena

[reservoirdog1]

Thanks for the replies, everybody.

 

Just got off the phone with her. Basically she feels that my relationship with my daughter is unhealthy and headed for difficulty, unless I make some serious changes to it without the distraction of being in a relationship. From her perspective, my daughter "runs the show", competes for my attention with her (when she should be secure enough not to have to do that), and is basically in charge. She feels that this situation (if that's an accurate description of it) needs to change for the sake of my daughter, because right now my daughter basically IS my girlfriend -- not literally or in any kind of gross sense, just that my daughter has "staked claim to me" and there's no room in my life for a relationship with GF (her or another) until proper roles are established between my daughter and me.

 

My head's swimming with all this info. I've spent the last twelve years feeling like, all in all, I've done a pretty good job raising my kids. Even in the midst of the split from their mother six years ago, I had some serious down points, but overall, I've felt I've done a pretty good job. And now I'm questioning that in my own mind because of everything I've just heard from GF. GF's highly intelligent, very intuitive, lots of education and training in psychology and related disciplines, works in the mental health field.

 

All of which translates into a huge bloody mindfyck of epic proportions. I can't clearly perceive, perhaps because I'm too close to it, if there might be any truth to GF's views, or if they're all just coming from her own perspective which is itself screwed up. Am I a perfect father? Of course not. But I'm a loving and, I believe, dedicated father, and I believe my kids know that. My daughter seems happy and healthy, well adjusted from my perspective. Very intelligent, loves to read, has friends, close relationships with aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, has interests, seems generally happy. And yet, my GF evidently believes that my relationship with my daughter has veered dangerously off course due to how I (and perhaps her mother too, but we didn't touch on that) parented her, so much so that GF is convinced that ending our relationship is absolutely necessary so that I can devote my energies to avoiding and/or navigating the inevitable storm that's coming with my daughter, and saving my daughter, GF and me a triangle of pain when that storm comes.

 

I don't see this as GF trying to get out of this relationship on a trumped up pretext. Or if she is, this is one fyck of an elaborate, well-constructed pretext. One of the last things she said, through tears, was that in a way she's mad at me having let things with my daughter get to this point, and for bringing her into the midst of it where she fell in love with me.

 

I've never heard anything like this from any other person, ever. These concerns, which to her seem absolutely massive, are things that have never been raised to me by my parents, my sisters, my daughter's teachers, her mother (my ex-wife), or anybody else. Even my ex-wife, with whom I had a very frosty relationship for a few years after we split up, has remarked on a number of occasions that she thinks I'm a really good dad. Hell, even the GF I broke up with in 2008, who was extremely angry and hurt and who lashed out at me a number of times after I broke it off and with whom I had numerous verbal fights while we were together, never raised any of these things that GF has raised.

 

GF's background may have something to do with it. She's ADD but highly (verified) intelligent. Bordering on brilliant. Spent part of her teenage years on the streets. Had her daughter at 18 and basically raised her herself. Managed to parent her daughter quite successfully, insofar as her daughter seems to be a well-adjusted 17-year-old overall.

 

All of which may mean that she's completely wrong, over-analytical to an unhealthy degree, or who knows -- correct. Either way, I'm bloody confused and it's pretty frigging painful to know that my relationship with somebody I'm in love with is ending and there's basically nothing I can do about it. :(

Edited November 10, 2009 by reservoirdog1

[Lost&Found]

This makes me mad. How dare your GF question your parenting skills. I have two kids also, 4 and 7, they are very difficult to handle sometimes but I do the best I can. My ex-GF would sometimes criticize my parenting skills but I would not stand for it. My kids are happy and well-adjusted, if not always the best behaved but I do what I can as a single dad. I'm sure you are also doing the best you can, and kids are going to act out no matter how perfect a parent you are. I wouldn't stand for her telling you how your relationship with your daughter should be personally. It's not like your daughter is getting in all kinds of trouble or stealing or into drugs, so its really not her business. Your kids are YOUR priority - not hers.

[Art_Critic]

Do you think she was just looking for a reason to breakup so she picked one that was so out in left field that it would be hard to counter ?

 

I do agree that her attacking your parenting skills is really out of line but then on the other hand you both would be co-parenting if you ever got married then maybe there was just an impasse on her end..

 

She sounds a bit self centered.. I'm sure there were things in her parenting style that were attackable at times during her rasing her own child but it kinda sucks that she can't see that we are all fallible when raising kids..

 

 

Is it all written in stone yet ?

[Pink Cupcakes]

I think it is not your daughter who was jealous of your girlfriend, but the other way around. It was your (ex)girlfriend who was jealous of your daughter. Your daughter sounds a LOT more mature and intuitive than your exgirlfriend. No offense, but good riddance to that condescending b**ch.

[reservoirdog1]

Do you think she was just looking for a reason to breakup so she picked one that was so out in left field that it would be hard to counter ?

 

I do agree that her attacking your parenting skills is really out of line but then on the other hand you both would be co-parenting if you ever got married then maybe there was just an impasse on her end..

 

She sounds a bit self centered.. I'm sure there were things in her parenting style that were attackable at times during her rasing her own child but it kinda sucks that she can't see that we are all fallible when raising kids..

 

 

Is it all written in stone yet ?

 

I was about to answer "yes" to that. Then she called me.

 

Long story short, she acknowledged that her perspective may be inaccurate, or in any event that she may not be the best person to give an opinion. I'd been sitting here thinking that it may be the best thing for me to speak to a counsellor, to run some of this through an objective third party and see if the things my daughter said and did raise any red flags as suggestive of a communication or father-daughter relationship problem that I'm too blind to see and that my GF can't perceive accurately because she's to close to the situation.

 

The trigger event that started all this was on Saturday night. GF had just arrived, daughter came out, there was a brief discussion, in response to which my daughter said, "don't lecture my dad, he hates that." GF saw this as problematic in that it was (a) disrespectful to her (which I agree, it was), (b) suggestive of a belief on my daughter's part that she needs to "protect" me, and © trying to put GF "in her place" as between the two of them. I don't know if too much is being read into those words or not.

 

When I talked to my daughter about this the next morning, I told her that what she'd said was inappropriate and disrespectful. Then I asked her if she could tell me why she'd said that. After saying "I don't know" a few times, she said that -- not for reasons of anything my GF has said or done, just in general -- she's worried sometimes that the relationship between me and GF is going to turn into another one like the one I had with XGF who I broke up with a year and a half ago in a very messy manner, which had affected my daughter while it was going on. That relationship had involved cohabitation for nine months, and my daughter had never been very happy in that. (Her unhappiness hadn't been the reason it ended, but anyway...)

 

When I told GF about what my daughter had told me, her response was that this suggested that my daughter didn't feel safe enough to be secure in the knowledge that I would protect her from that kind of unhappy situation, and that this is part of the problem with my relationship with my daughter.

 

I don't know how much of this I believe, or if some or all of it is hyperanalytical and overkill. But I do want to investigate it. Then again, maybe I'M overreacting by thinking about doing that...

Edited November 10, 2009 by reservoirdog1

[Pink Cupcakes]

I think your daughter is smarter than your girlfriend. She is able to sense that your girlfriend is a lectury knowitall. Do you really want a life of being nagged by your girlfriend/wife/whatever she turns out to be?

I read an article that often kids are very intuitive about their parents' significant others and their voice shouldn't be ignored when it comes to their opinion on your girlfriends. I'm not kidding on this.

I think you should be listening to your daughter's instincts and leave things as they are.....broken up with her.

[marlena]

think it is not your daughter who was jealous of your girlfriend, but the other way around. It was your (ex)girlfriend who was jealous of your daughter. Your daughter sounds a LOT more mature and intuitive than your exgirlfriend. No offense, but good riddance to that condescending b**ch.

 

I was about to write this but then read the above. Totally agrre. Your gf sounds downright jealous of your daughter and the good relationship you both share. I think she wants to be number one in your life which is considering you have two children downright selfish and childish almost as if she were throwing a tantrum.

 

Who is she to pass judgement on your parenting skills and then use them as excuse to break up with you? What makes her think she knows better than you do? And who gives her the right to involve herself so deeply in something that is very personal and sacred in my opinion. After all, you are not even married. She is just a girlfriend of a few months.

 

For someone who is supposedly well informed about the psychology of children, she is doing a terrible job. Instead of praising you and supporting you in your efforts and thus far success, she is doing everything to make you second guess yourself and drive a wedge in your relationsip with your daughter. This smacks of huge insecurities on her part no matter how educated and intelligent she is.

 

Like another poster said, children do have an instinct regarding their parents' choice of partner. Perhaps you should tune into the message your daughter is trying to send tather than listen to your girlfriend's tirade of what a bad job you are doing with your daughter.

 

Like I said, unless your daughter is continually offensive, your girlfriend should show her maternal side and be more nuturing towards your daughter. The fact that she is a psychologist should make her more attuned to problems of young children whose parents are divorced and then someome new appears on the horizon.

 

Next time she calls tell her she should use some of her critical powers on herself rather than you and your daughter.

[marlena]

Oh, and by the way, I find nothing offensive about your daughter saying,"my father doesn't like to be lectured". Come on! This is crazy. I can't believe something so irrelevant spiralled into all this unecessary drama.

 

Now, what I would worry about is the effect your relationships are having on your daughter. Obviously, your last messy relationship was in a sense a rather traumatic experience to your daughter. It is no wonder that she is nervous about the whole thing happening all over again.

 

It's very common for children to feel protective and rather possessive of their divorced parents. My daughter was the same way. That's why I did not have a longterm relationship until my daughter turned seventeen. It was a conscious choice. I did not want a boyfriend in the house messing with our lives and interfering with my parenting.

 

I am not saying you should not have a girlfriend but maybe you should not allow them to get so actively involved in your children's lives until your children have grown to be adults and therefore in less need of your attention and care.

 

I believe you should not introduce everyone you date to children. Only after it becomes serious and the relationship has proved to be a solid one with a future in it should you even entertain the idea. Of course this is only one person's opinion and I may be wrong but this is how I see things.

 

Anyway, I think your girlfriend, mental health expert or not, is overstepping her boundaries here. If she can't handle another man's children, love them and care for them and undertand their fears and insecurities, if she can not be a positive influence in their lives, she should think twice before dating a divorced man with children.

Edited November 10, 2009 by marlena

[reservoirdog1]

Thanks for the replies, everybody.

 

She and I met up on Tuesday night at my place. Basically she sees a crapload of future ugliness between my daughter, her and me, which is going to make all of us miserable. This is largely because, despite the fact that she acknowledges I'm a really good father in a lot of ways, in her view I haven't set proper boundaries between my daughter and myself (i.e. made it clear that certain behaviour is inappropriate or disrespectful). The behaviour she refers to has been, for the most part, under my radar because, to me, it's not overt but very subtle. XGF has picked up on it, however, and sees it as massively problematic. Her view is that it needs to be sorted out, and that she can't be around while it gets sorted out. And who knows how long that will take.

 

Part of this (and this is me talking now) is that I should have set other boundaries much sooner: I parent my kids how I parent them, end of story, and she can butt out. But -- and this is a persistent aspect of my character -- I'm a people pleaser and conflict avoider by nature. In my more negative moments, I'd even go so far as to describe myself as a prototypical nice guy and wuss. I want to change that, because it's hampered me my whole life.

 

The funny thing is that in my LAST relationship, I don't think my then-GF would have described me that way. In that relationship, I was much quicker to assert myself, call her on what I saw as her bullshyt, and I ultimately ended that relationship because I was sick of dealing with her neuroses, of which there were many.

 

Back to the present. It's basically a breakup for intellectual reasons, rather than emotional ones. I think I've basically accepted it as required -- if she won't accept the daughter situation, and has insufficient faith that it can change enough to suit her from her perspective or can't or won't stick it out while it changes, then I agree with her. We're going to make each other miserable.

 

Now-XGF has made it pretty clear to me that if it weren't for this perceived issue with my daughter, she wouldn't feel we needed to break up. I got a call from her yesterday on my cell phone (after we'd more or less agreed the night before that we needed to put some time and space between us), but I didn't answer and she didn't leave a voicemail. I guess she just wanted to hear my voice or something. I went on Facebook yesterday and changed my relationship status, without the usual broken-heart announcement telling the world I'm "single". She sent me a Facebook message at about 1 AM saying that it hurt but she knew it had to happen, she's having a really hard time, wishes things could go back to what they were, she loves me and misses me, etc. I wrote back this morning saying I love her and miss her too, but that the only thing to do is accept this, grieve for it, take the lessons and hopefully apply them successfully in the future. I wished her well.

 

For those familiar with the show, it seems like kind of breakup Monica and Richard went through on Friends -- neither person wants it, but the conclusion's been reached that it has to happen.

 

This sucks.

[deux ex machina]

I'm sorry you are in such pain. I think you did the best that you could, all things considered.

 

I really respect how you stood by your daughter.

 

You have my humble admiration.

[reservoirdog1]

I'm sorry you are in such pain. I think you did the best that you could, all things considered.

 

I really respect how you stood by your daughter.

 

You have my humble admiration.

Thanks DEM... I appreciate the words.

[reservoirdog1]

Well. GF and I have been back together for about month. That is, since about a week after my previous post.

 

We spent the first two weeks or so playing it somewhat safe -- getting together, hanging out, cuddling, and most importantly for the moment, not involving my kids. Basically recognizing, I suppose, that the relationship had started in an odd way (met at a party, slept together that night) and we'd kind of done things out of order.

 

After those first two weeks of being back together, the physical component resumed. And to say that it was amazing would be an understatement. What returned was an emotional-sexual connection that was hugely powerful. So much so that we both commented on it, every time. Things were going GREAT. I can't stress that enough.

 

Then I fycked things up on Saturday, and knocked us down a peg.

 

Since we got back together, we talked about spending Christmas together in some fashion. Never sorted out the details or nailed anything down. She had exams and was crazy busy up until mid-December (though not to busy for us to get together). Plus she's ADD and has great difficulty focusing on planning, especially when she's stressed in general (which she'd freely agree with).

 

Traditionally I spend Christmas with my family, but that's not etched in stone. Basically going on at the same time as GF and me talking, I'd been speaking to my Mom and she was trying to figure out what they were doing for Christmas -- either coming to town where I live, or having everybody gather at their place a few hours out of town (including a ferry ride). It eventually developed, in a very haphazard way, that things would be happening where they live, not here in town. I didn't really do much with that info, and GF and I still only vaguely discussed the holiday plan, in part because it didn't seem she could really commit to a plan easily yet.

 

Anyway, last week my mom called me and told me that if I'm coming over for Christmas, I should make ferry reservations ASAP because they're filling up. I went and made reservations, which don't cost all that much anyway and were indeed filling up. Great. Done.

 

Somehow I got it into my mind that I'd told GF this, or that we'd decided it, or something. Honestly I'm not sure how I came to that conclusion. But in any event, on Friday night I casually told her I would be going to my parents and that I thought I'd told her that. It didn't turn into a fight, but she was a bit subdued that evening. Plus she was coming down with the flu (which she'd gotten from me). Stayed at my place that night.

 

Anyway, next day (Saturday) she was quite sick. I ran out, got her some flu remedies, looked after her generally. Ran out to do some unrelated errands while she slept. She was supposed to be working that evening for a couple of hours. When I got back in mid afternoon, she was up and was late for work (hadn't set her alarm, hadn't told me to wake her up at a specific time). I asked what I could do to help, she said angrily "you can fyck off!" I had no idea where that came from but I was pissed off by it. She stormed out, said that nothing had changed, we were right back to where we'd been before the last breakup, it wouldn't work with us. Things seemed really dire, obviously. Very shortly later she called, and it turned out that what had really upset her was the issue about Christmas developments and my making my own plans without her. Which I had done, and which was boneheaded and unthinking. I admit that.

 

So, since then, we've spoken. I've been very apologetic, left her flowers and soup since she's sick, which she's appreciated. Spoke again about an hour ago. Was a calm, fairly pleasant conversation, towards the end of which she said she was still upset with me over the Christmas business but wanted to just let it go for now, talk about it later (after Christmas), etc. She said that me "sucking up" about it was kind of annoying. So I'm basically backing off entirely from that, going out of town for two days over Christmas, etc.

 

I don't know what's going to happen with us at the moment. It doesn't seem like now is the time to try and address it, so it'll probably have to just sit for now while she thinks about it and has "space".

 

She's a challenging girl in some ways. I think that has a lot to do with her background. Long story short, she doesn't trust people fully very easily, plays it safe emotionally, keeps her guard up, and when her trust or reliance in somebody gets dealt a blow to some degree, it takes time to recover from that. Having said that, however, she also generally prefers to avoid drama and blowing things up into angry outbursts (unlike my last GF, with whom I had many of those). I love her and don't want to lose her. The last month together has been fantastic, and I'm not the only one who thinks that. I just want to get back to that.

 

Anyway, this is really long... thanks for reading this far. Right now I think I just need to chill out, let her sort things out in her head, and see what she comes up with. I'm willing to wait for her to do that.

Edited December 23, 2009 by reservoirdog1