Why can't I find a good man?

[Malenfant]

I actually like men who are somewhat artistic and poetic and intellectual - I just don't want them to also be weedy and wet and submissive. I'm poetic and sensitive, but I'm not an emotional jello with no confidence or ambition - I want a guy like me

 

so you want a guy who is like a woman then?

 

you wont find a man who is exactly like you, (you wont even find another woman who is just like you) and i bet if you did you would be bored by him.

 

not meaning to be unkind, but you havent listed any of your own faults. what would you say (objectively) that they are?

could you tolerate these faults in your partner? generally when we are with someone who is very similar, we're confronted with faults that we posess, and these are the things that make us most crazy because we dont like to be reminded of them.

Plus, being with a 'perfect' partner only makes us feel less perfect!

 

You need someone who is different to you in some way, thats what keeps us interested

[Ruby Slippers]

JellyTot, I totally empathize. I have had similar experiences.

 

You find either hot players who won't commit, or undermotivated wimpy boys who live to serve you and can't possibly be your equal. My last relationship was with a version of the former, and I just broke off a new dating relationship with someone leaning toward the latter.

 

Where are the smart, capable good guys?

Edited November 10, 2009 by Ruby Slippers

[DanielMadr]

Dear OP,

 

I have a few suggestion for you>

 

In order to find out if you are superficial dreamer or not, can you remember if you ever met a guy who was the catch....of course you can't know for sure he was a catch if you don't date him but instincts are sometimes more accurate then racional reasoning. So, have you met a catch?

 

Are you shooting yourself in the leg sometimes? Like making up excuses to not meet someone etc. just because you are afraid of rejection? Lots of intelligent people are real cowards and have unreasonably high standards for themselves therefore less self confidence - they are too hard on themselves and EJECT prematuraly from social situations.

 

Do you make opportunities for men to meet you. Are you always ready like little scout?

 

You should consider changing the habitat....artists are known to be broke and slightly eccentric....not a good trait if you look for good catch. Evenmore two artists as a pair...it is a disaster most of the times:)

You can find highly intelligent people on the most unexpected places. Education is important but it is not that important in life and educated people tend to be stuck up....education is everything for them. Wisdom should be.

 

Well, good luck. you are not alone in this, I guess.

 

Bare in mind I have an excellent proffesion, hot as hell, the few issues burned and buried but I'm not wealthy by american standards and I live very far away and I'm very picky, so

 

[sumdude]

I actually like men who are somewhat artistic and poetic and intellectual - I just don't want them to also be weedy and wet and submissive. I'm poetic and sensitive, but I'm not an emotional jello with no confidence or ambition - I want a guy like me

 

...and if you met a guy like you he probably wouldn't arouse you.. Know thyself.. you know what you're really attracted to.

 

Unless of course he's a bada$$ musician and songwriter who also happens to have a good day job.

[thegreatmoose]

I think respect is they key thing which makes me fall in love with a man, and lack of respect is the thing that prevents me from doing so - perhaps that's a throwback from my childhood feelings towards my father. I'm not looking for a guy who's perfect in every area, I'm just looking for someone I can respect and feel safe with. I've been trying to break it down in my mind, to figure out why I loved some guys and not others, and all I can think of is that the guys I was in love with seemed very strong and confident and capable (sort of like my father) while the guys I wasn't in love with seemed weak (physically or mentally weak, unable to take care of themselves financially, prone to addictions, lacking ambition and drive, etc).

 

 

I dated the alcoholic ex for over a year, because he was a nice guy who I liked in other respects. I tried to persuade him to drink less and exercise more, and when he objectified women I tried to ignore it and tell myself that he wasn't really such a bad guy.

Everyone has their sterengths and weaknesses. You might want to try dating different types of guys to see what is out there. The right type of guy for you could very well be someone that you did not expect. Some men are strong and confident and capable on the surface for are wusses inside. Others seem like wusses at first, but are strong and confident and capable inside. Most are in between. I have my own stengths and weeknesses like every guy. I'd likely fall short in a couple of areas you find important, but do real well in most of the others. You will meet guys who fall short in certain areas and you have to ask yourself "are you happy" in the relationship. It may take some time to really know the answer. If you feel the answer is no, I'd quickly move on to the next guy.

 

I don't see how a man who objectifies women and is an alcoholic could be anything other than a bad guy. I don't see how he could ever have a stable marriage unless he changes dramatically, but dramatic changes are very rare in this type of person. Does someone like this even deserve a second date?

[Isolde]

i think you have quite a task on your hands. I hope one day that you meet a nice, genuine, sincere man who maybe isnt so great to look at, but as you get to know him, his beauty shines from within, making him handsome in your eyes. that way it never fades with time, as looks will.

 

 

I agree, but the OP doesn't sound like she's looking for a hot man, just someone she's reasonably attracted to. Plus, normal looking men cheat all the time--especially if they're wealthy and intelligent.

 

My opinion is having some common interests is important but you don't need to share every hobby, etc. with your partner.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Isolde

[Malenfant]

i agree with thegreatmoose.

 

the important things are

 

does he make you happy?

does he make you laugh?

is he considerate?

does he make you feel like an attractive, sensual, sexual woman?

 

as far as i'm concerned, if all these answer 'yes' you have the foundation of a great relationship. anyone who does all these things for you should be given a chance, regardless of looks and career.

[Malenfant]

I agree, but the OP doesn't sound like she's looking for a hot man, just someone she's reasonably attracted to. Plus, normal looking men cheat all the time--especially if they're wealthy and intelligent.

 

My opinion is having some common interests is important but you don't need to share every hobby, etc. with your partner.

 

 

OP said that she wants instant attraction and she's only had that with players. she wants the lot, great looks, charisma, confidence, good job.

 

we all have to find our partner attractive, but i'm talking about the attractiveness that comes from within, i was saying she should give that a chance to grow even if he's not stunning to begin with.

 

i agree, you dont need, and shouldnt want to share every hobby with your partner, its important to have some things just for you.

[DanielMadr]

JellyTot, I totally empathize. I have had similar experiences.

 

You find either hot players who won't commit, or undermotivated wimpy boys who live to serve you and can't possibly be your equal. My last relationship was with a version of the former, and I just broke off a new dating relationship with someone leaning toward the latter.

 

Where are the smart, capable good guys?

 

I tell you a secret. I'm not entirely sure it's the truth, I hope it is not but I'm starting to believe it is.

 

Once a player stops being a player and concentrates just on the One. He becomes very close to the wimpy one. And it is not about bedding other women it is just about concentration on one woman. He is not total wimp then but he is not total player either and looses his edge.....and girl ejects.

 

Hopefuly it wont be my case. I meditated a lot lately to stay indeferent even in the most romantic circumstances. Hopefuly my heart is so **** up now it has some tough scar tissue or something.

 

Now I just need to learn to take myself more seriously. It's gonna be the hard part.

[Isolde]

OP said that she wants instant attraction and she's only had that with players. she wants the lot, great looks, charisma, confidence, good job.

 

we all have to find our partner attractive, but i'm talking about the attractiveness that comes from within, i was saying she should give that a chance to grow even if he's not stunning to begin with.

 

i agree, you dont need, and shouldnt want to share every hobby with your partner, its important to have some things just for you.

 

i think she said she wanted someone "ok looking," which IMO is reasonable.

[Bullydog1982]

To be fair, I've been looking for a serious relationship since the age of fifteen - I never wanted to date around, I just wanted one guy who I could love and spend my life with. He never came along, and I've been looking for the best part of two decades now I only started thinking about playing house with someone when I came to the conclusion that it was the best I could hope for, because Mr Right ain't coming.

 

JellyTot,

 

Sorry to write and run (in and out of the office) but I found this kind of interesting while skimming your thread (this may have already been discussed as well so work with me here). Do you know what's been driving you to seek out a "serious relationship" from such a young age? Have you had a chance to think about and honestly accept that your life might not lead you on that path? Are you okay with this?

 

I’m not trying to put you on the defense but I’ve had a similar discussion with a female friend of mine and I’m curious to see what some else might say in a similar situation.

 

Go forward, know yourself, love yourself and enjoy life.

 

-Bullydog1982

Edited November 10, 2009 by Bullydog1982

[DanielMadr]

Hopefuly it wont be my case. I meditated a lot lately to stay indeferent even in the most romantic circumstances. Hopefuly my heart is so **** up now it has some tough scar tissue or something.

 

And no one cried reading this so far? What a bunch of cold hearted stones here:confused:

 

I feel you, man.

[Bullydog1982]

And no one cried reading this so far? What a bunch of cold hearted stones here:confused:

 

I feel you, man.

 

LOL, here's a tissue.....unfortunately I already blew my nose in it.

[C-i-C-u]

I agree, but the OP doesn't sound like she's looking for a hot man, just someone she's reasonably attracted to. Plus, normal looking men cheat all the time--especially if they're wealthy and intelligent.

 

My opinion is having some common interests is important but you don't need to share every hobby, etc. with your partner.

Normal men are not wealthy. Intelligent maybe a few.

The reason why you haven't found a good man is because you are not a good women. Sorry to say that.

[Isolde]

Normal men are not wealthy. Intelligent maybe a few.

 

What I meant was that average-looking men are still capable of cheating, as well as great-looking men. While great looking men may be more likely to cheat on average, the issue here isn't looks, but character. The OP has dated a variety of different "types" and not found the compatibilities she requires, which most posters here agree aren't particularly unreasonable, except possibly for her concern with frequent intellectual conversation, which isn't really a requirement for a good marriage, as far as I can tell.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Isolde

[JellyTot]

So let me ask you this: do you distinguish "cultured men" and artistic men?

I would say that being cultured is necessary, because I like to go to the opera and discuss books and stuff. Being artistic is not necessary, but I wouldn't be disinterested in a guy who was that way inclined.

 

not meaning to be unkind, but you havent listed any of your own faults. what would you say (objectively) that they are?

could you tolerate these faults in your partner?

You need someone who is different to you in some way, thats what keeps us interested

I would say that my main faults are that I'm somewhat vain, I can be judgemental and opinionated at times, I tend to lecture people on boring subjects that I find interesting (in my "teacher" voice as my ex used to call it), I'm a dreamer and I walk around with my head in the clouds, I'm sort of the absent professor type so I'm quite forgetful and absent minded, I'm not overly practical when it comes to mundane things, I'm a little shy and not usually the life and soul of the party, I'm a worrier and I can sometimes be a bit depressive, I don't share many common interests such as sports or television, and I have allergies to some foods and cosmetics (you'd be surprised how many people find allergies to be a dealbreaker). I have no illusions that I'm perfect, but I don't think I have what most people would consider to be major dealbreakers. I think I could tolerate all of those things in another person, assuming they were attractive, smart, and generally good in other respects.

 

You need someone who is different to you in some way, thats what keeps us interested

I don't mind if someone is different to me - they can teach me new and interesting things that I don't already know. I love new and different people. But there are some important ways that I want a guy to be the same as me: in morality and goals (must be decent and want to build a future with a partner), in single status (no kids), in age (+/- 5-10 years), in general disposition and interests (at least some things in common, not a party guy who drinks heavily and goes out all the time), etc. I'm not specifying that he has to be exactly the same as me, that he has to have all the same interests, or have the same level of education, or earn the same salary - I'd just like him to be high enough on those scales to be considered a decent catch and to be someone I can respect, and be generally attractive and nice.

 

In order to find out if you are superficial dreamer or not, can you remember if you ever met a guy who was the catch....of course you can't know for sure he was a catch if you don't date him but instincts are sometimes more accurate then racional reasoning. So, have you met a catch?

I have met some guys who i thought were a catch. I dated two of them (and fell in love with them, and was subsequently cheated on by them). The others were already in relationships when I met them, and are without exception still with the girls they were with when I met them (which just proves that they were as decent as I surmised).

 

I don't see how a man who objectifies women and is an alcoholic could be anything other than a bad guy. I don't see how he could ever have a stable marriage unless he changes dramatically, but dramatic changes are very rare in this type of person. Does someone like this even deserve a second date?

Sometimes he seemed like a really sweet guy - he would say something profound about a sunset, or talk about his feelings, or bring me flowers - then at other times he would talk about women like sex objects, not to mention he drank a good bit every single day. I thought it was just bravado and bluster, and that if he stopped drinking and trying to big himself up by talking about women he might actually be a decent guy underneath it all. But after a year he was still objectifying women and drinking heavily, so I gave up.

 

Do you know what's been driving you to seek out a "serious relationship" from such a young age? Have you had a chance to think about and honestly accept that your life might not lead you on that path? Are you okay with this?

I never thought it was particularly respectable to be promiscuous and sleep around, nor did I have any desire to do so; in my mind I can't separate sex from love, and I just wanted to find one guy who I could be with, someone who would be my friend and companion and lover. Maybe I read too many books but I had this idea in my head of some guy being the Romeo to my Juliet, the Tristan to my Isolde, the Adam to my Eve - you get the picture. I wanted to spend my life loving just one person who loved me in return.

 

When I was younger I didn't think about the possibility of not finding true love, but now I'm older it's something I find increasingly worrying and sad. I always wanted a loving relationship and children, and I'm now beginning to face the possibility that it might never happen, or that I might have to settle for a less than loving relationship in order to have children. I would be very unhappy if I never had true love in my life, but I'm beginning to accept that the odds of it happening are decreasing steadily by the day, and I'm observing many people around me who also have to deal with the fact that they never found true love - there are a lot of them I guess life just isn't fair, and being a good person isn't enough to guarantee that love and happiness will come along.

[DanielMadr]

I have met some guys who i thought were a catch. I dated two of them (and fell in love with them, and was subsequently cheated on by them). The others were already in relationships when I met them, and are without exception still with the girls they were with when I met them (which just proves that they were as decent as I surmised).

 

Can you compare yourself to their girlfriends? Do you stand a chance?

Then you have your answer about your superficiality. Just be honest with yourself. (we dont need to know;) )

[Ruby Slippers]

When I was younger I didn't think about the possibility of not finding true love, but now I'm older it's something I find increasingly worrying and sad. I always wanted a loving relationship and children, and I'm now beginning to face the possibility that it might never happen, or that I might have to settle for a less than loving relationship in order to have children.

I think the same. I have been in love before, but the relationships didn't last. I find myself thinking that maybe the best I can hope for is to have children with a man who is an acceptable -- rather than wonderful -- match for me and make the best of it. I am leaning toward the idea that I need to be 100% self-sufficient in every way and not expect to have a relationship necessarily, so I can take or leave the man, and even if we split up after having children, I will be able to carry on alone. But that thought still leaves me cold. I haven't reached the point of giving up on the whole enchilada yet. But I am considering the realities.

[Sam Spade]

I tell you a secret. I'm not entirely sure it's the truth, I hope it is not but I'm starting to believe it is.

 

Once a player stops being a player and concentrates just on the One. He becomes very close to the wimpy one. And it is not about bedding other women it is just about concentration on one woman. He is not total wimp then but he is not total player either and looses his edge.....and girl ejects.

 

Hopefuly it wont be my case. I meditated a lot lately to stay indeferent even in the most romantic circumstances. Hopefuly my heart is so **** up now it has some tough scar tissue or something.

 

Now I just need to learn to take myself more seriously. It's gonna be the hard part.

 

 

Dude, you're SO screwed up . While the delivery is not stellar, I tend to agree. For a lasting relationship, I think that one of the important secrets is to behave like the Godfather - he could annihilate you any time, but won't (as long as you play by the rules). The reason this is important is because for whatever reason women seems to have the tendency to always push the envelope just a lil bit farther. I don't know if it is for validation or out of selfishness, but the point being is that if the guys is too welcoming or accomodating (because he loves them!) it is not inconceivable that a girl could arrive the "I love you but I'm not in love" conclusion. So I guess it is important to go back to scary/aloof at least every once in a while, just as punctuations in otherwise loving relationship, to make sure that all the parties involved understant that love/shmove, there are a-consequences for bisbehavin'.

 

In any case, among other things, love is also about mutual accountability.

[thegreatmoose]

Sometimes he seemed like a really sweet guy - he would say something profound about a sunset, or talk about his feelings, or bring me flowers - then at other times he would talk about women like sex objects, not to mention he drank a good bit every single day. I thought it was just bravado and bluster, and that if he stopped drinking and trying to big himself up by talking about women he might actually be a decent guy underneath it all. But after a year he was still objectifying women and drinking heavily, so I gave up.

Is this something you would recognize now? A lot of overconfident guys with little to no substrance know how to put on a show and draw women to them like magnets.

 

Are you strong enough not to be drawn to this and to get out quickly if needed?

 

I believe a great guy with most or possibly all of what you want is out there. They will not have a chance with you if you are spending a year with someone like this.

[JellyTot]

Can you compare yourself to their girlfriends? Do you stand a chance?

 

I'd say I was prettier and smarter than their girlfriends, and just as decent and nice, which is one reason why I can't understand me being alone. If women who are less attractive, less educated, etc can get decent guys, why can't I?

 

I remain in utter confusion about the motivation of men - I'm an ex-model (albeit only an amateur model) who was (at the time) studying science and mathematics; I'm reasonably cultured and nice, I do charity work, etc. A reasonable catch, you would have thought. My boyfriend ran a catering business which was valued at a couple of million dollars (I didn't know this when I met him), and he was the confident, witty, charismatic type of guy (which is what attracted me). He cheated on me with a tubby secretary who looked like a horse (buck teeth and everything), and she took great pride in telling me all about it. Why did he cheat with her? Because she was a vicar's daughter, and in his words "she was as tight as a fish's a$$" so he just had to try his luck. He didn't have a relationship with her after we split up, although she obviously thought he was going to. Was it worth it? Well, his current girlfriend is a waitress who weighs 200 pounds and looks like a man wearing a wig, although I have no idea what she's like as a person. Was I really not so good a catch as either of those women? If so, I might as well shoot myself now

[thegreatmoose]

I'd say I was prettier and smarter than their girlfriends, and just as decent and nice, which is one reason why I can't understand me being alone. If women who are less attractive, less educated, etc can get decent guys, why can't I?

 

I remain in utter confusion about the motivation of men - I'm an ex-model (albeit only an amateur model) who was (at the time) studying science and mathematics; I'm reasonably cultured and nice, I do charity work, etc. A reasonable catch, you would have thought. My boyfriend ran a catering business which was valued at a couple of million dollars (I didn't know this when I met him), and he was the confident, witty, charismatic type of guy (which is what attracted me). He cheated on me with a tubby secretary who looked like a horse (buck teeth and everything), and she took great pride in telling me all about it. Why did he cheat with her? Because she was a vicar's daughter, and in his words "she was as tight as a fish's a$$" so he just had to try his luck. He didn't have a relationship with her after we split up, although she obviously thought he was going to. Was it worth it? Well, his current girlfriend is a waitress who weighs 200 pounds and looks like a man wearing a wig, although I have no idea what she's like as a person. Was I really not so good a catch as either of those women? If so, I might as well shoot myself now

Dating is not always fair. I keep seeing men that seem to have so little to offer with beautiful women. It's very frustrating from the other side too.

Edited November 11, 2009 by thegreatmoose

[DanielMadr]

I'd say I was prettier and smarter than their girlfriends, and just as decent and nice, which is one reason why I can't understand me being alone. If women who are less attractive, less educated, etc can get decent guys, why can't I?

 

I remain in utter confusion about the motivation of men - I'm an ex-model (albeit only an amateur model) who was (at the time) studying science and mathematics; I'm reasonably cultured and nice, I do charity work, etc. A reasonable catch, you would have thought. My boyfriend ran a catering business which was valued at a couple of million dollars (I didn't know this when I met him), and he was the confident, witty, charismatic type of guy (which is what attracted me). He cheated on me with a tubby secretary who looked like a horse (buck teeth and everything), and she took great pride in telling me all about it. Why did he cheat with her? Because she was a vicar's daughter, and in his words "she was as tight as a fish's a$$" so he just had to try his luck. He didn't have a relationship with her after we split up, although she obviously thought he was going to. Was it worth it? Well, his current girlfriend is a waitress who weighs 200 pounds and looks like a man wearing a wig, although I have no idea what she's like as a person. Was I really not so good a catch as either of those women? If so, I might as well shoot myself now

 

Wow. Calm down. No shooting of nobody. And most of all no selfpitty. Its a highway to hell. Laugh at your "luck". Insallah. Maybe there is a reason why you dont have husband yet. I mean higher purpose.

 

I understand you are down but I hope you get well soon. You must. Smiling girls have more luck.

 

As your comments on IQ of those two girlfriends of potential catches. Intelligent people are fine as long as they are not annoying. Intelligence is not everything. Sometimes it is more fun to be with a not so bright person - they can't se as many problems as intelligent people. Smart or wise people learned to be more careless about things. Especially to to smile back at life's injustice.

 

I'm going to bed. Good night everyone.

[stillafool]

 

I'm not totally in love with him, but he's decent and kind and wants to marry me, so maybe I should be happy with that and not expect to have true love.

 

 

No don't settle with this guy as you are not in love with him. He deserves to be with a woman who knows she is in love with him and wants to marry him. Why are you so desperate anyway that you would marry someone you don't love? Keep searching for the one you want and leave the others alone. It isn't fair. If you use people for your own purposes Karma will surely get you and you will never know true love.

What do you think? Are my expectations unrealistic? Should I just settle with my current boyfriend (who is the best so far) and give up on this fanciful idea of true love?

 

You are a scientist. Does this thought process make sense to you?

[eiithan]

I would say that being cultured is necessary, because I like to go to the opera and discuss books and stuff. Being artistic is not necessary, but I wouldn't be disinterested in a guy who was that way inclined.

 

What is like your surroundings? If you live in one of the metropolitan cities, I strongly suggest to join the young patron program at art organisations. NY Metropolitan Opera runs a 20/40 club, LA Opera runs ARIA (opening night party for young patrons), SF Opera has something similar too. There is an art/fashion organisation called Gen Art and they frequently have art openings and run away shows in major cities. Meetup.com runs tons of bookclubs as well that you might be interested, along with art film/theatre goer groups. And there is always university seminars of your interested subjects.

 

Like many people have already mentioned, there are men who fit in your criteria. I could think of one person right now as well, who is a university lecturer and designer. He did film/theatre back in the undergraduate at a top university, good personality & family upbringings, etc etc. They are not easy to find, but do exist in any group. My guess is, with your science background, it may be slightly difficult to have someone to introduce you to men with liberal arts background (not that science people do not come with such qualities, but the chances are relatively low). While expanding your social circles, you may want to be a bit more pro-active. Especially given that you are an attractive women, some men may not even approach you in the first place.

 

Remember that the bottom line is:

 

Meeting good men is hard.

Meeting good men who meet your requirements is harder.

Meeting good men who meet your requirements and is attractive to you is hardest.

Meeting good men who meet your requirements and is attractive to you and is attracted to you at the right time, damnably hardest.

 

May take a while, even a few years, until you run into the right person. At least now you know what you really want in a long term relationship. Do not settle for a relationship that cannot provide what you need, do not give up hope. My fingers are crossed for you.