Why can't I find a good man?

[Sam Spade]

He was happy, what's wrong with that? If I were happy with my job and lifestyle I wouldn't give it up for a more stressful lifestyle just because it would give me with more money. True happiness is priceless and probably the most rare commodity we have in our world today. As they say, if it ain't broke don't fix it. But that also just goes to show you need to find someone who matches what your looking for in a lifestyle.

 

 

This is a delicate matter, because while of course people should priritise comfortable/happy life over money for money's sake, minimum wage is insane. My hat is off to naybody who can be actually happy on a minimim wage, but I think that it is very hard to live comfortably on anything under 50k, no matter how happy you are with your job. I deliberately chose a job (academia) that pays *half* of what I could be making in consulting, but the flexibility is worth this sacrifice. The difference is that it is still a comfortable income.

[Untouchable_Fire]

This is a delicate matter, because while of course people should priritise comfortable/happy life over money for money's sake, minimum wage is insane. My hat is off to naybody who can be actually happy on a minimim wage, but I think that it is very hard to live comfortably on anything under 50k, no matter how happy you are with your job. I deliberately chose a job (academia) that pays *half* of what I could be making in consulting, but the flexibility is worth this sacrifice. The difference is that it is still a comfortable income.

 

This is very true. Minimum wage is just not acceptable. If he loves his work, then he needs to find some way to supplement his income. Sell stuff on ebay or something.

 

I'm a super independent type, so relying on someone else for income would drive me up the wall.

 

I specifically chose this career because I can do what I want, yet still make really good money. I think that has created my biggest hurdle in dating. Why are women so focused on money and status? Why is it so hard to find one that isn't?

[JellyTot]

I think this is somewhat illuminating, and may indicate an issue regarding your perspective. You state that you don't want to make the same mistake your father made, which is interesting since, based on what you wrote, I'd submit that it was your mother who made the "mistake" in marrying a man who was cold (yet emotionally abusive) and arrogant. It seems to me that it's her mistake you should avoid, not your father's. Put another way, maybe your father is more of a model for your life than he should be.

Hmm, that's a very interesting perspective! I never thought of it like that before. I do identify more with my father than I do with my mother; both of them tell me I'm exactly like him, in looks as well as in temperament. I value his approval of a potential partner much more highly than I value my mother's (mom likes everyone so long as they're nice to me).

 

I think the reason I see my father as being the one who made the mistake is because my mom was happy with him but he wasn't happy with her - he was the only one who was dissatisfied and wished he had chosen differently. On reflection, perhaps she also made a mistake in marrying a man who clearly wasn't loving and considerate towards her (Due to his upbringing he has serious difficulties expressing love and emotion - my mom never received even one gift or card or bunch of flowers in the forty years they were married, and I was witness to the fact that he never did anything for her or even said anything nice to her). Perhaps I DO value intellectualism too highly and don't put enough stock in how someone treats me. I am certainly greatly influenced by what my father thinks of a guy (and also by what my grandmother would think of him - and she passed away several years ago).

[GorillaTheater]

Hmm, that's a very interesting perspective! I never thought of it like that before. I do identify more with my father than I do with my mother; both of them tell me I'm exactly like him, in looks as well as in temperament. I value his approval of a potential partner much more highly than I value my mother's (mom likes everyone so long as they're nice to me).

 

I think the reason I see my father as being the one who made the mistake is because my mom was happy with him but he wasn't happy with her - he was the only one who was dissatisfied and wished he had chosen differently. On reflection, perhaps she also made a mistake in marrying a man who clearly wasn't loving and considerate towards her (Due to his upbringing he has serious difficulties expressing love and emotion - my mom never received even one gift or card or bunch of flowers in the forty years they were married, and I was witness to the fact that he never did anything for her or even said anything nice to her). Perhaps I DO value intellectualism too highly and don't put enough stock in how someone treats me. I am certainly greatly influenced by what my father thinks of a guy (and also by what my grandmother would think of him - and she passed away several years ago).

 

Let me qualify the foregoing by saying that I'm no shrink, I don't know you, and I know very little about you. But:

 

I think that you care much more about what your father thinks about potential mates than you do your mother because he is much harder to please. Maybe impossible to please much of the time. And you're a striver, you've accomplished much in your life and relish the challenge. And what could be a greater challenge than attempting to please your father?

 

The problem is, assuming you ever find a man that would or could please your father (which may be more difficult than you think), assuming the man will also please you may be assuming too much.

 

Frankly, your mom sounds like she has a healthier attitude about people and about life in general, even though she may be too accepting.

[Malenfant]

He felt that he was happier in his current job than he would be if he had a higher degree and a more stressful job. He liked helping kids, but a major factor was that he liked his comfortable lifestyle with short and flexible hours and lots of free time to indulge his hobbies. He didn't want to get a higher degree and a professional job which would require him to be in an office for 8 hours a day, he liked to wander home at lunchtime and compose music all afternoon in the spare bedroom. When he refused to change jobs he didn't do it for the kiddies, he did it because he liked his easy lifestyle.

 

He sounds like a person who knows what life is really about. Helping people and living life to the full.

Enjoying time is the best way to spend it IMO. I dont see why a person should have to have a boring 8 hr office job if they dont have to.

I have a boring 8 hr office job and it sucks. His life sounds like heaven to me!

 

Also, the fact that he stuck to his guns and didnt allow you to dictate what job he should have is a good thing. If he had done as you said, you then would have respected him less for being a doormat and not sticking up for himself.

 

I dont mean that in a nasty way, i'm just trying to show an example of how respect can be given for different things.

 

I really hope you do find love, but when you do, dont question it too much. I think you're using your head too much over your heart.

 

Love isnt about two perfect people, its about a perfect connection between two imperfect people.

 

That cant be measured in money or intellect.

[eiithan]

He sounds like a person who knows what life is really about. Helping people and living life to the full.

Enjoying time is the best way to spend it IMO. I dont see why a person should have to have a boring 8 hr office job if they dont have to.

I have a boring 8 hr office job and it sucks. His life sounds like heaven to me!

 

Also, the fact that he stuck to his guns and didnt allow you to dictate what job he should have is a good thing. If he had done as you said, you then would have respected him less for being a doormat and not sticking up for himself.

 

I dont mean that in a nasty way, i'm just trying to show an example of how respect can be given for different things.

 

I really hope you do find love, but when you do, dont question it too much. I think you're using your head too much over your heart.

 

Love isnt about two perfect people, its about a perfect connection between two imperfect people.

 

That cant be measured in money or intellect.

 

Living one's life in a non-materialistic way is respectable. Helping others and sticking to good causes are noble. However, not so much when he couldn't even make a basic living that he has to rely on his parents and his girlfriend. I don't see a balanced, good life style there.

 

Ex #4 couldn't even contribute 50% of our living costs - he earned about $12k running outdoor activities for disabled kids, and he loved it and it was a very worthy occupation, but that amount couldn't support a family even if I worked too (which I would intend to do anyway). Before I came along, his parents subsidized him - when he moved in with me I basically ended up supporting him, which didn't exactly make me look at him as a strong desirable man, and over time our relationship deteriorated. I guess a lot of men have the same view of women - they want a woman who will contribute something, not someone they have to carry financially.

[JellyTot]

Living one's life in a non-materialistic way is respectable. Helping others and sticking to good causes are noble. However, not so much when he couldn't even make a basic living that he has to rely on his parents and his girlfriend. I don't see a balanced, good life style there.

I guess he would have scraped by if he lived in a tiny apartment and didn't spend much money. The problem was that my (albeit average) lifestyle was above his means, so I either had to live on the poverty line with him or subsidize him so he could keep up with me (I ended up doing the latter). His priority was to work the minimum number of hours in an easy job which made him feel good about himself, earn just enough to scrape a living, and spend the rest of his time doing things he enjoyed - which is fine, that's up to him, but it wasn't compatible with my long-term goals of buying a home and having a family.

 

When I raised the issue of getting a better job so we could have a family, he said he would rather be a house-husband and stay at home with the kids - so I would have been supporting him completely and I'd be the sole breadwinner. I wasn't happy with that idea at all - not only did it make me disrespect him as a man who was unable to (even partly) provide for a family, but it also meant that as the sole breadwinner I wouldn't get a turn at spending time at home with my own children. I was hoping to share work and childcare responsibilities with my partner, not carry him completely so he could have a comfortable life staying at home every day and sitting on his a$$. That was pretty much the last straw for our relationship.

[JellyTot]

I think a lot of how I feel about men has to do with traditional gender roles and how I relate to them. Traditionally the man is the breadwinner, the protector; the woman looks up to and respects him, and he takes care of her. I don't want to take on the traditional masculine role of protecting and supporting my partner and family - I want to feel like the "woman" in a relationship, I don't want a weak and effeminate guy who makes me feel like I'm more of a man than he is. I have felt that before - I've looked at guys and thought: I'm a girl and I'm still more of a man than you are - it's a very off-putting feeling.

 

I'm not saying that I expect a man to completely support me in the traditional manner, but I'd at least like to have the feeling that here's a decent man who I can rely on and respect, who contributes equally so I don't have to carry him, a man who makes me feel like a woman. I want a man to be physically bigger, strong and confident, and able to challenge me intellectually and contribute to supporting a family. If a man seems significantly less capable than I am, I immediately equate that with effeminacy and weakness, and it makes me feel like the man in the relationship so I lose sexual attraction to him. The guys I've been in love with were the strong, confident, capable guys who made me feel like a woman, even though they weren't necessarily smarter or wealthier than me. The guys I wasn't in love with were the ones who were wishy-washy and weak, who had no ambition or drive, who weren't particularly masculine or confident.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I'm not saying that I expect a man to completely support me in the traditional manner, but I'd at least like to have the feeling that here's a decent man who I can rely on and respect, who contributes equally so I don't have to carry him, a man who makes me feel like a woman. I want a man to be physically bigger, strong and confident, and able to challenge me intellectually and contribute to supporting a family. If a man seems significantly less capable than I am, I immediately equate that with effeminacy and weakness, and it makes me feel like the man in the relationship so I lose sexual attraction to him. The guys I've been in love with were the strong, confident, capable guys who made me feel like a woman, even though they weren't necessarily smarter or wealthier than me. The guys I wasn't in love with were the ones who were wishy-washy and weak, who had no ambition or drive, who weren't particularly masculine or confident.

 

All that is totally understandable, and it's pretty much what every other woman is looking for as well.

 

So, my question is this. You say that getting guys interested in you is no problem... so why do you keep picking ones that are not a good fit?

 

You saw earlier that Sam Spade is a guy who fits your requirements... I fit them too. So there are plenty of men available who should meet your needs.... Why do you pick the ones that don't?

[Malenfant]

Living one's life in a non-materialistic way is respectable. Helping others and sticking to good causes are noble. However, not so much when he couldn't even make a basic living that he has to rely on his parents and his girlfriend. I don't see a balanced, good life style there.

 

i do agree, and i'm all for people doing their bit and paying for themselves.

it seems this man has gone a bit far to the extreme in this case.

 

i also agree with OP, nothing less attractive than a man relying on his parents.

[aerogurl87]

He sounds like a person who knows what life is really about. Helping people and living life to the full.

Enjoying time is the best way to spend it IMO. I dont see why a person should have to have a boring 8 hr office job if they dont have to.

I have a boring 8 hr office job and it sucks. His life sounds like heaven to me!

 

Also, the fact that he stuck to his guns and didnt allow you to dictate what job he should have is a good thing. If he had done as you said, you then would have respected him less for being a doormat and not sticking up for himself.

 

I dont mean that in a nasty way, i'm just trying to show an example of how respect can be given for different things.

 

I really hope you do find love, but when you do, dont question it too much. I think you're using your head too much over your heart.

 

Love isnt about two perfect people, its about a perfect connection between two imperfect people.

 

That cant be measured in money or intellect.

 

I agree 100% with this post.

[Malenfant]

I think a lot of how I feel about men has to do with traditional gender roles and how I relate to them. Traditionally the man is the breadwinner, the protector; the woman looks up to and respects him, and he takes care of her. I don't want to take on the traditional masculine role of protecting and supporting my partner and family - I want to feel like the "woman" in a relationship, I don't want a weak and effeminate guy who makes me feel like I'm more of a man than he is. I have felt that before - I've looked at guys and thought: I'm a girl and I'm still more of a man than you are - it's a very off-putting feeling.

 

I'm not saying that I expect a man to completely support me in the traditional manner, but I'd at least like to have the feeling that here's a decent man who I can rely on and respect, who contributes equally so I don't have to carry him, a man who makes me feel like a woman. I want a man to be physically bigger, strong and confident, and able to challenge me intellectually and contribute to supporting a family. If a man seems significantly less capable than I am, I immediately equate that with effeminacy and weakness, and it makes me feel like the man in the relationship so I lose sexual attraction to him. The guys I've been in love with were the strong, confident, capable guys who made me feel like a woman, even though they weren't necessarily smarter or wealthier than me. The guys I wasn't in love with were the ones who were wishy-washy and weak, who had no ambition or drive, who weren't particularly masculine or confident.

 

i respect your ideal of a man, and believe me, the man you're describing IS the perfect man.

 

Question... the guys you fell in love with, why did those relationships end?

[JellyTot]

 

So, my question is this. You say that getting guys interested in you is no problem... so why do you keep picking ones that are not a good fit?

 

That's a good question, and one I have pondered myself. It isn't a problem to get guys interested in me - the problem is meeting guys who I want to be interested in me! I'm not the most sociable person, I don't have heaps of friends, although I do try hard and I go to things like amateur dramatics and stuff. Still there are a limited number of people who attend such things - maybe several dozen people, usually the same people every week. I don't tend to meet many NEW people. So what usually happens is I assess the guys available to me and don't have the hots for any of them - time passes and I become more lonely and don't meet any new people, so I re-assess the available guys who I originally rejected - and I end up dating a guy who I don't really have the hots for but he's ok and he's the best option available at the time. I still have my eye out for a guy I really like, but I don't meet one, so I end up staying with the "good enough" guy for quite a while, trying to persuade myself that I like him more than I really do, until it's the last straw (whatever that may be). Then we break up and the cycle starts over. The two guys I was really in love with were the ones I immediately had the hots for - the others were guys I dated because I was lonely and they were the best option available at the time.

 

So I guess my problem is that I don't meet enough guys to find one who I really like - but there are so few guys who I seem to like anyway, and still fewer of those are available (and that number is becoming smaller as the years pass, which makes me feel even more like I should settle for less). I don't have young girlfriends to go nightclubbing or bar crawling with, so I tend to meet people via dance classes or theatre clubs or discussion groups - and as I said, a limited subset of people attend such things, the same people each week. I really don't know what else to do in order to widen my search - I thought I was trying pretty hard, but obviously not hard enough

[Star Gazer]

Sounds like you're being too mathematical about certain things. Are you a lawyer?

 

Why do people say this? The law is NOT black and white, like math or science is. It's entirely gray! Attorneys, if anything, tend to look for excuses and loopholes and justifications, not pigeon hole people in a "mathematical" manner.

 

Anyway, OP... I may have missed it, but how do you typically meet men? Specifically, how did you meet each of your ex's?

 

If you spend social time doing what you love, you're bound to find attractive men who embody a lot of the qualities you're looking for.

[Jerry18]

 

Ex #1: OK looking, very intelligent, good career, but he drank a lot (at least a bottle of wine every single day) and he got the shakes if he missed his daily alcohol ration. He also had a history of sleeping around and was a bit over-sexed; luckily I found out about this before I made the mistake of sleeping with him - he'd even been with prostitutes!

 

Ex #2: Stunningly good looking, very well educated, good job, no bad vices, no baggage. Unfortunately he was very big headed and wanted to spread his wonderfulness around a bit; he was incapable of commitment and cheated on me a few times.

 

Ex #3: Intelligent and nice, committed and trustworthy, good career, but not at all physically attractive (a factor which I tried unsuccessfully to overlook). He was also jealous and possessive.

 

Ex #4: Also intelligent and nice, committed and trustworthy, but he was in a dead-end job - he liked his job, but it was so dead-end that he couldn't even support himself, let alone support a family with me, and he was subsidised financially by his parents and also by myself (until I got sick of him sucking all my money away).

 

Ex #5: Nice and trustworthy and decent, wanted to marry me, but not the brightest spark, and very overweight and unfit.

 

Current boyfriend: OK looking, the most intelligent and kind and considerate person I've ever met, and a perfect boyfriend who would marry me immediately. However he has very little education and no career to speak of (he's in a dead-end unprofessional job), plus he's divorced with kids. I question whether he could realistically marry me and support a family given his financial commitments to his kids and his lack of a good career, not to mention that I'm not overly keen on his baggage in the first place.

 

What do you think? Are my expectations unrealistic? Should I just settle with my current boyfriend (who is the best so far) and give up on this fanciful idea of true love?

 

You're biggest problem is that you weren't dating enough guys. Assuming that you started dating after finishing university, you've averaged less than one guy per year. But a lot of the things you dislike like about them are things you can discover after meeting them for the first time...

 

#1: At least you didn't sleep with him, I'm assuming you dumped him in a few days.

 

#2: A bit legit. Probably couldn't have discovered his cheating tendencies quickly.

 

#3: Shouldn't have even gone out with him if you don't like unattractive men. Don't set yourself for disaster.

 

#4: Again doesn't take a year to know he doesn't have a good job. Shouldn't have gone out with him if you knew you aren't ready to let someone leech on to you.

 

#5: Don't date someone overweight if you're not into BBM.

 

#6: Probably should've dumped after discovering his baggage and poor career.

 

Basically, if I were you I could've gone through ALL your boyfriends in less than a year. You're taking way too long to accept the fact that you don't like them.

 

The chances of getting a 6 increases when you roll more dices. Obviously, it's foolish to expect that you can find the right man by just dating several guys.

 

Right now: Dump him ASAP. Date 1 guy/week/date multiple guys until you find the right one. You need statistics to work in your favor.

[JellyTot]

Question... the guys you fell in love with, why did those relationships end?

They both cheated and broke off the relationships when I found out (they broke it off, not me - I was so smitten with them that I was prepared to forgive them! What a fool I was!)

 

I guess the strong, confident, capable kind of guy is attractive to a lot of women, and he knows it - he cheats because he can, because women throw themselves at him. I still live in hope of finding such a guy who actually has some morals and wants a serious relationship.

[Malenfant]

That's a good question, and one I have pondered myself. It isn't a problem to get guys interested in me - the problem is meeting guys who I want to be interested in me! I'm not the most sociable person, I don't have heaps of friends, although I do try hard and I go to things like amateur dramatics and stuff. Still there are a limited number of people who attend such things - maybe several dozen people, usually the same people every week. I don't tend to meet many NEW people. So what usually happens is I assess the guys available to me and don't have the hots for any of them - time passes and I become more lonely and don't meet any new people, so I re-assess the available guys who I originally rejected - and I end up dating a guy who I don't really have the hots for but he's ok and he's the best option available at the time. I still have my eye out for a guy I really like, but I don't meet one, so I end up staying with the "good enough" guy for quite a while, trying to persuade myself that I like him more than I really do, until it's the last straw (whatever that may be). Then we break up and the cycle starts over. The two guys I was really in love with were the ones I immediately had the hots for - the others were guys I dated because I was lonely and they were the best option available at the time.

 

so did you have the hots for them based on chemistry? or because they seemed to tick all the boxes?

 

i'm just trying to work out whether you are driven by your head too much.

 

If you are meeting men at am dram. they are more likely to be artistic types, and probably not the type you are looking for at all.

I would think that the man you want would not prance about on the stage, as the personality traits of the man you want would be much too 'manly' for that (not saying male actors are not manly, i'm just going by the strong male ideal that OP is after, if you get my meaning)

 

it seems like the kind of man you are after would be unlikely to share your interests, which is a shame because common interests are very good for a long term relationship.

[Malenfant]

They both cheated and broke off the relationships when I found out (they broke it off, not me - I was so smitten with them that I was prepared to forgive them! What a fool I was!)

 

I guess the strong, confident, capable kind of guy is attractive to a lot of women, and he knows it - he cheats because he can, because women throw themselves at him. I still live in hope of finding such a guy who actually has some morals and wants a serious relationship.

 

ah-ha, yes, thats it. there cant be many women who havent been stung by an attractive, witty, confident man at one time or another.

 

its not unusual for an attractive man to not know he is attractive, but if you want cliche looks, and the confidence, chances are (just like a women) he will use it to his advantage. generally speaking you're talking about a player. Men like this have fragile egos, because their success with women is based on their looks. they therefore need to re-affirm their egos by having lots of women.

 

Player looks, player charm, player experience, gentlemanly ways.

spot the odd one out!

 

i think you have quite a task on your hands. I hope one day that you meet a nice, genuine, sincere man who maybe isnt so great to look at, but as you get to know him, his beauty shines from within, making him handsome in your eyes. that way it never fades with time, as looks will.

 

who wants a guy that women are constantly trying it on with? you want a man who is lovely in his own way but doesnt know it.

he's out these, and i'm sure you'll meet him when you're ready.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Malenfant

[JellyTot]

Anyway, OP... I may have missed it, but how do you typically meet men? Specifically, how did you meet each of your ex's?

I typically try to meet guys doing stuff like amateur dramatics, dance class, writing or discussion groups, etc.

 

Ex #1 was someone I met through school - he was studying the same subject as me. He was a smart and fun guy but he drank every single day, never exercised, and talked about women like sex objects. I hoped he had something deeper to him, something beyond that bravado and objectification of women - I tried to get to know him and encouraged him to quit drinking, but in the end I gave up after a year because he was just a jerk.

 

Ex #2 was someone I met at a conference when I was studying postgrad. He seemed perfect until I found out he was cheating and lying. I only wasted 4-5 months on him.

 

Ex #3 was a PhD researcher who came to study at my school. By this point I'd decided that cute and confident guys were jerks, so I tried a different approach. He wasn't good looking but he was smitten with me - unfortunately I could never muster up that enthusiasm for him no matter how much I respected him intellectually.

 

Ex #4 was someone I met through an amateur dramatics group (I was trying to get out and meet more people). He was a decent guy but his lack of commitment to working a full-time job and planning a future was what spoiled that relationship. By that point I had stuck it out for 2.5 years, hoping that he would come around, but he never did.

 

Ex #5 was a friend of a friend who I met in a bar when I was at a pretty low ebb. I was completely disillusioned and lonely, and it felt good that at least someone wanted to date me, even if I wasn't really into him. I enjoyed having a safe relationship for a while (three years to be precise) but when he proposed I realized that it had gone far enough; I wasn't in love with him and didn't want to marry him.

 

My current boyfriend is a friend of a guy at my amateur dramatics group - I resisted dating him for a long time, but he eventually talked me round because I'm feeling my age and I have no other viable options at present.

 

On top of this there are perhaps another half a dozen guys who I met at school, or at dance and music events - some were jerks and others were decent guys who I just didn't hit it off with. There was also another guy who was my first ever boyfriend, years before I dated anyone else. I reckon I've had about a dozen or so boyfriends, and a few additional dates who I never pursued even a short relationship with. Not enough to find the right guy But I just don't seem to meet guys that I even want to date - I could count on the fingers of one hand the guys I've met in my entire life who I had a genuine interest in, and only two of those were available for me to date (the two guys I fell in love with).

[Malenfant]

I typically try to meet guys doing stuff like amateur dramatics, dance class, writing or discussion groups, etc.

 

 

you wont find the man you are after at any of these classes. not unless you are willing to compromise your ideals.

these are artisic men who go here, the attributes that you have listed for your perfect man are not those of an artistic type.

[JellyTot]

ah-ha, yes, thats it. there cant be many women who havent been stung by an attractive, witty, confident man at one time or another. generally speaking you're talking about a player.

This is something I have unfortunately come to realize. The smart, confident, witty men who knock my socks off are the players who knock the socks off every girl, and the guys who would be faithful tend to lack confidence and sexual attractiveness. I've had sexual attraction to guys who turned out not to be up for a serious relationship, and I've had serious relationships with guys who were just not sexually attractive. I'm struggling to find both in one guy.

 

so did you have the hots for them based on chemistry? or because they seemed to tick all the boxes?

The guys I was in love with ticked SOME of my boxes. The first guy was overweight and not good looking, smart but not as smart as me, but he was witty and confident and successful, and I respected him (until he cheated on me). The second guy was handsome, smart, gentlemanly, and pretty much every girl's idea of perfection, but he was untrustworthy and unfaithful.

 

With both guys I went through a period of thinking this guy was pretty much everything I wanted in a man, until they cheated and dumped me. I don't think it was "ticking boxes" that attracted me though (although I would certainly have been put off if they later turned out to have major dealbreakers). Before I even knew much about them, I found them attractive - their wit and confidence and respectability, the way they dressed, the way they walked like they owned the world, the way they took charge of a situation and acted like the alpha male, their general dominance and sexual aggression. At the time I likened it to being hit by a bolt of lightning. Is that chemistry?I know my description makes them sound like players, which is what both of them turned out to be.

[JellyTot]

you wont find the man you are after at any of these classes. not unless you are willing to compromise your ideals.

these are artisic men who go here, the attributes that you have listed for your perfect man are not those of an artistic type.

 

I actually like men who are somewhat artistic and poetic and intellectual - I just don't want them to also be weedy and wet and submissive. I'm poetic and sensitive, but I'm not an emotional jello with no confidence or ambition - I want a guy like me

[Malenfant]

This is something I have unfortunately come to realize. The smart, confident, witty men who knock my socks off are the players who knock the socks off every girl, and the guys who would be faithful tend to lack confidence and sexual attractiveness. I've had sexual attraction to guys who turned out not to be up for a serious relationship, and I've had serious relationships with guys who were just not sexually attractive. I'm struggling to find both in one guy.

 

 

The guys I was in love with ticked SOME of my boxes. The first guy was overweight and not good looking, smart but not as smart as me, but he was witty and confident and successful, and I respected him (until he cheated on me). The second guy was handsome, smart, gentlemanly, and pretty much every girl's idea of perfection, but he was untrustworthy and unfaithful.

 

With both guys I went through a period of thinking this guy was pretty much everything I wanted in a man, until they cheated and dumped me. I don't think it was "ticking boxes" that attracted me though (although I would certainly have been put off if they later turned out to have major dealbreakers). Before I even knew much about them, I found them attractive - their wit and confidence and respectability, the way they dressed, the way they walked like they owned the world, the way they took charge of a situation and acted like the alpha male, their general dominance and sexual aggression. At the time I likened it to being hit by a bolt of lightning. Is that chemistry?I know my description makes them sound like players, which is what both of them turned out to be.

 

so you find players sexy, hey, thats totally normal. they wouldnt be players if they werent super sexy.

 

i had a strong attraction for one such man once. he was very attractive, confident to the point of arrogance, totally alpha male, testosterone just oozed from him. he didnt even have to chase women, they just handed it on a plate to him.

 

over time as i got to know him i came to see that he was actually a very insecure lonely person. i saw him differently, and ended up actually pittying him because he was completely unable to have a faithfull, trusting relationship, although that was what he really wanted deep down.

 

with men like this its all about the front, no depth other than their own needs and craving for attention, which is very, very unattractive.

[sumdude]

I actually like men who are somewhat artistic and poetic and intellectual - I just don't want them to also be weedy and wet and submissive. I'm poetic and sensitive, but I'm not an emotional jello with no confidence or ambition - I want a guy like me

 

...and if you met a guy like you he probably wouldn't arouse you.. Know thyself.. you know what you're really attracted to.

[eiithan]

I actually like men who are somewhat artistic and poetic and intellectual - I just don't want them to also be weedy and wet and submissive. I'm poetic and sensitive, but I'm not an emotional jello with no confidence or ambition - I want a guy like me

 

First thing first: OP, you must know that you are looking for a very small group of men who have artistic hobbies and make a decent living. You can date successful artists, but their lives tend to take a different path and the traditional male role you seek may not fit the bill quite well.

 

So let me ask you this: do you distinguish "cultured men" and artistic men? There are men who appreciate art (and while not necessarily though, more than often, it requires money. Opera tickets are expensive.) even though they are not particularly creative.

 

Another note: there are many young professionals who are into photography. Taking a photography course may open up some chances. Living is perhaps slightly harder for freelancing commercial artists, graphic designers and etc, but you can also aim for that angle. However, if you are verbally sensitive and are looking for men of literary art, unless you find a full time scholar (ideally tenured), or successful screenwriter/AD person (they can be nutjobs too), it will be tough. Attorneys are another option, but they are well versed in a different way.

Edited November 10, 2009 by eiithan