Aberrant Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 OK. 10 days ago my wife left me, then revealed she had been having an affair for a few days. I feel this was partially my fault for not meeting all of her needs. She feels very guilty sometimes, but at other times does not. Two of our issues were communication and closeness. She works 12 hour nights and I work 12 hour days so we never saw each other. Looking back on it, we should have known this wouldn't work. Since then we have talked a lot and been to counseling. Neither of us is 100% sure our relationship can work. I want it to, she is ambivalent. The counselor convinced us to both stay in the same house, but sleep in seperate bedrooms. My wife agreed to stop seeing the other man until we have things worked out. She told me she understood how I felt about that and that she understands I am going to have some trust issues for a while. She said the other guy agreed to give her space. Problem is, she works with him. Tonight was her first night back at work since everything happened. He wasn't there, but they share work schedules so he knew she was. Make a long story short a number I don't recognize sent her 7 text messages. We have an iphone app that lets us monitor our text usage so we don't go over our limit, and after it jump 7 texts, I looked at our online billing and saw they were all "received" from a number I don't recognize. At least she wasn't sending them. Here are the two problems I need advice with: 1. How do I ask her about the text messages in a fair and mature way? I feel that even if the love is gone in our relationship that I deserve some level of respect. I thought she had asked him to leave her alone, and either she lied to me about that or he is not respecting her request. 2. How do I ask her to switch off of night shift? It is going to be hard to reconcile if we continue to not see each other. It is also going to be very hard if she sees more of the other man than she sees of me (which will probably be true over the course of the next month looking at her schedule). If she was giving it 100% to get our relationship back on track, I don't think this would be a problem but she is still unsure if it can work between us.
road Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 Your and your WW works schedules must line up. You need to spend 15 hours quality time each week. Your WW was wrong to tell the OM she needs space that will just keep the OM waiting in the wings and testing the waters from time to time. WW needs permanent NC with the OM. WW needs to send a NC letter to OM stating is was wrong to have an affair with him and is going NC with the OM. You need to approve letter so it is business like and you send it so it gets sent. There never will be NC if WW works for the same company as the OM. WW wil have to find a new job for NC. Then WW should provide access to her computer and cell to verify there is NC.
Author Aberrant Posted November 9, 2009 Author Posted November 9, 2009 Thanks, I think that is excellent advice. The problem is, she isn't sure she wants to try to make it work with me. She thinks our problems cannot be solved and regardless of what I say I cannot dissuade her from that belief. Tom
whichwayisup Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 She feels this way because she's STILL in contact with the OM. She's in an affairy-land fog and that is clouding her judgement. How can she focus on you, the marriage and fixing things when she's lusting after someone else? Sorry to say this, but I think there's alot more to this and she isn't telling you the whole truth. Do you know if the OM is married? Anyway, you can work on things all you want, but until she's ready, fixing the marrige is pointless.. Still do counselling, work on you, get stronger, wiser so you'll be ready for what happens next..
Samantha0905 Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) Here are the two problems I need advice with: 1. How do I ask her about the text messages in a fair and mature way? I feel that even if the love is gone in our relationship that I deserve some level of respect. I thought she had asked him to leave her alone, and either she lied to me about that or he is not respecting her request. 2. How do I ask her to switch off of night shift? It is going to be hard to reconcile if we continue to not see each other. It is also going to be very hard if she sees more of the other man than she sees of me (which will probably be true over the course of the next month looking at her schedule). If she was giving it 100% to get our relationship back on track, I don't think this would be a problem but she is still unsure if it can work between us. Just ask her. Tell her you'd like to talk to her and you know some of the issues may be sensitive -- you just want to work on your marriage and the two of you staying together. Tell her you insist she has no contact with the other man as she has promised. She offered to do that and you deserve it while you two are working on things. You are 100% correct in thinking you deserve that respect. She has you acting out of fear right now because you don't want to lose her. I don't mean intentionally -- but that's what's going on. Tell her firmly what you need to happen to work on the marriage and mean it. Sure if you lay down the gauntlet, she may bow up and go for a while. That's fine -- perhaps you should stop trying to dissuade her and see how she feels about that. I'd be interested to see if she'd stay gone. I bet not (if you're willing to take her back.) And if she does stay gone, well then you deserve a wife who loves you 100% anyway -- right? She is certainly not affording you any respect right now. It seems with you knowing about the affair, she'd be repentive and focused on making sure you are happy. Lord, it seems she'd at least act that way. You HAVE to consider yourself and your own feelings. Someone needs to. She may be very resistant to switching shifts because it's her "lifeline" (she thinks -- he's more like an anchor and she's sinking fast into the depths) to her OM. Are you sure she's just been having this affair for just a few days? How long have they worked together? Even if the PA has only been that long, there may have been an EA going on for a while. If the two of you have been that neglectful of your own relationship, it may make her feel extra attached to OM. This only matters if she's so attached to him, she is not willing to go NC and work on your marriage. I think you need to not accept wavering. Does she want to work on the marriage or not? You certainly have the right to ask that question firmly. She needs to switch shifts. It would be best if she got a new job all together. How can the two of you have a relationship if you work two different 12 hour shifts? Anyone would get lonely in that situation. Are you still getting counseling? Maybe you should broach the sensitive subjects for a while during your counseling sessions. I agree that unless she is 100% willing to work on the marriage, there are going to continue to be issues. Don't accept that for yourself. I'm not advocating rushing into divorce, but make your needs known and tell her how you want to work on the marriage. Don't plead with her. Just tell her and if she's not willing, well then she's not willing. You shouldn't be willing at that point either. It seems to me she's lacking in remorse in this situation and that should be unacceptable to you. Edited November 9, 2009 by Samantha0905
boldjack Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 OP, you first have to understand that marriage counselors are in the business of keeping marriages together. Anything that they say or do is predicated on that fact. You should immediately ask your wife to leave the family home and find another place to stay, while you work on the marriage. If you do as the counselor suggests, the danger is that the two of you will grow to accept the arrangement, and"settle", for a half-assed marriage. The next thing is for you to give your wife a short period of time (1 week) to decide if she wants to really work on the marriage, or not. If no, get a divorce as quickly as possible. If yes, then absolute NC with the other man. Right now, she is doing nothing, and is showing you no respect or love. Don't you deserve better?.
Dexter Morgan Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 Thanks, I think that is excellent advice. The problem is, she isn't sure she wants to try to make it work with me. She thinks our problems cannot be solved and regardless of what I say I cannot dissuade her from that belief. Tom nothing, she wants another man. getting her to come back to your side will only net you a woman that wants another man. why settle for that? maybe you need to think about moving on and seeing other women. they are out there, more compatible with you, and there are some that won't cheat just because times get difficult.
seibert253 Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 She feels this way because she's STILL in contact with the OM. She's in an affairy-land fog and that is clouding her judgement. How can she focus on you, the marriage and fixing things when she's lusting after someone else? Sorry to say this, but I think there's alot more to this and she isn't telling you the whole truth. Do you know if the OM is married? Anyway, you can work on things all you want, but until she's ready, fixing the marrige is pointless.. Still do counselling, work on you, get stronger, wiser so you'll be ready for what happens next.. Absolutely right on the money! Your wife is still in contact with the OM. The 7 texts "prove" this. Everything she's been telling your is crap. She's telling you what she thinks you want to hear. Why? Your second string, sitting on the bench. She's stringing you along to see if things with the OM will work out. If it doesn't, well she's got the good ol' stand by; YOU. IMO you need to do your homework. Gather evidence of her continued contact, find out if the OM is married, and identify his spouse. After you have your evidence you need to confront her and give her an ultimatium; end ALL contact with the OM, and commit to fixing your marriage, or she can move out and you're filing for D. Prior to confronting, I would contact the OM's significant other, and expose what's going on. Nothing kills an affair faster than exposing it to the AP's other spouse. You deserve better than this. She doesn't AGREE on NC, You need to INSIST on it. You should not bargin with her. She either commits 100%, or tell her she can move out and you're filing for D. Time for being Mr. Nice Guy is over. It's time for hardball.
anne1707 Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) OP, you first have to understand that marriage counselors are in the business of keeping marriages together. Anything that they say or do is predicated on that fact. You should immediately ask your wife to leave the family home and find another place to stay, while you work on the marriage. If you do as the counselor suggests, the danger is that the two of you will grow to accept the arrangement, and"settle", for a half-assed marriage. The next thing is for you to give your wife a short period of time (1 week) to decide if she wants to really work on the marriage, or not. If no, get a divorce as quickly as possible. If yes, then absolute NC with the other man. Right now, she is doing nothing, and is showing you no respect or love. Don't you deserve better?. I agree with much of this except for her finding someone else to stay. Yes you must be clear with your wife that you will not tolerate her having contact with the OM and that she cannot just take as long as she wants to decide what she wants. If she cannot prioritise the marriage then it is over. However to move out when you have so little chance to see each other and address problems you have on top of all the trust issues will, in my opinion, just make things harder. It is also possible to work with the OM and have NC. I do this but it is extremely tough me and even harder for my H. If at D-day I had been able to do something as simple as changing shifts then I would have done so with no hesitation. Her reluctance to do this is not a good sign at all. Just to add - there should be complete openness on her part. She should be doing her utmost to regain your trust. There should be no problems on her part in letting you have access to her phone. Edited November 9, 2009 by anne1707
samspade Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 How to talk to your wife post-affair: "Get your things and move out. We're getting divorced."
Author Aberrant Posted November 9, 2009 Author Posted November 9, 2009 Thanks for the advice all. There is a little more at play here than just the affair. My wife has also been depressed and I believe that clouded her judgment atthe time of the affair and I think it is clouding her judgment now. Her description of our marriage as hopeless is a classic line from a depressed individual. I believe she thought an affair would make her feel happy but it has only made things worse as she is now full of guilt and has even lower self esteem than before. Our marriage counselor agrees but getting her to a psychiatrist is going to take a week or two, and she may have left me by then.
Dexter Morgan Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 Thanks for the advice all. There is a little more at play here than just the affair. My wife has also been depressed and I believe that clouded her judgment atthe time of the affair and I think it is clouding her judgment now. ok then, if you are looking for an excuse to cut her slack, then you just gave it. You are looking to not want to do what needs to be done so you can stay with her. So stay. Forgive her and move on. otherwise, quit trying to excuse her behavior.
samspade Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 Thanks for the advice all. There is a little more at play here than just the affair. My wife has also been depressed and I believe that clouded her judgment atthe time of the affair and I think it is clouding her judgment now. Her description of our marriage as hopeless is a classic line from a depressed individual. I believe she thought an affair would make her feel happy but it has only made things worse as she is now full of guilt and has even lower self esteem than before. Our marriage counselor agrees but getting her to a psychiatrist is going to take a week or two, and she may have left me by then. Oh, she was depressed. Ok, then! And was this because you didn't meet her needs? Can she blame that on you, too? Just how clouded does one's judgment have to be in order to go through the deliberate motions of flirting with, meeting with, and having sex with another man - to say nothing of hiding it from you? If someone has such faulty judgment in the first place - or such a weak mental constitution that her depression really DID cloud her judgment to this degree - why on Earth would you want to stay with her? You say you deserve respect. Do you know where respect begins? Answer: Self-respect. Her respect for you is down the drain, and never coming back. You can at least gather the self-respect to remove her from your life, like a bad tumor.
seibert253 Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 Thanks for the advice all. There is a little more at play here than just the affair. My wife has also been depressed and I believe that clouded her judgment atthe time of the affair and I think it is clouding her judgment now. Her description of our marriage as hopeless is a classic line from a depressed individual. I believe she thought an affair would make her feel happy but it has only made things worse as she is now full of guilt and has even lower self esteem than before. Our marriage counselor agrees but getting her to a psychiatrist is going to take a week or two, and she may have left me by then. I'm sorry A. Not to sound like an azz, but I don't accept the excuse thing for infidelity. I'm sorry, I'm depressed so I think I'll stab my spouse in the back and sleep with someone else. Even if you're depressed, you still know right from wrong. You need to change your thinking, there is NO excuse for what she did.
Space Ritual Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Thanks for the advice all. There is a little more at play here than just the affair. My wife has also been depressed and I believe that clouded her judgment atthe time of the affair and I think it is clouding her judgment now. Her description of our marriage as hopeless is a classic line from a depressed individual. I believe she thought an affair would make her feel happy but it has only made things worse as she is now full of guilt and has even lower self esteem than before. Our marriage counselor agrees but getting her to a psychiatrist is going to take a week or two, and she may have left me by then. Jeeze OP...I could eat a bowl of Alphabet Soup and crap out better advice than you are getting from your marriage counselor! There isn't any more at play other than the fact she is selfish and instead of broaching the subject with you about her feelings she screwed another man and blamed you. Every time this happens somebody screams "depression" or some type of mental illness...Yeah...Its depressing when you realize you gotta come clean with your spouse that you spread your legs for another man! You cant make your wife want to stay with you, but you CAN make her feel some consequences for her actions. As long as you make excuses for her(which I find is all too often on the part of betrayed spouses, as they will want to hold onto something...ANYTHING) she will keep the door open to the other man and you will lose. She needs NC with this guy and that means changing ****s NOW Marriage Counselors are a dime a dozen....take back your life!!! Make your wife feel the consequences and stop making excuses...KICK HER BUTT OUT! Then she can see just how wonderful the grass is going to be on the other side.
mybrowneyedgirl Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 from our little bit of MC i honestly think that most of them are a crock of s***. i knew exactly what was going to be said from friends who went through it. the whole go NC, write a NC letter to the AP telling them that its over so the spouse can see. its so fake and easy to follow the steps so that it appears like youre trying to your spouse. my H didnt buy it, even though i was going through all of the steps with a clear conscience and a willing heart. i will say that we are staying in MC to try to fix this, but i still find some of it silly. i feel like these people get paid to brainwash you or your spouse into thinking a certain way. its almost like theyre reading a script.
JaneInVegas Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 My wife has also been depressed and I believe that clouded her judgment atthe time of the affair and I think it is clouding her judgment now. Her description of our marriage as hopeless is a classic line from a depressed individual. I believe she thought an affair would make her feel happy but it has only made things worse as she is now full of guilt and has even lower self esteem than before. Our marriage counselor agrees but getting her to a psychiatrist is going to take a week or two, and she may have left me by then. For some people, affairs are used as a coping device for depression, just like alcohol or drugs. People who don't realize or understand this have never dealt with depression on a very deep, personal level. Does that mean you have to be depressed to have an affair? Of course not. You don't have to be an alcoholic to get totally wasted once in awhile, either. Having said that .... I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you that she's not faking depression, or trying to play the sympathy card, or whatever. If you believe she is legitimately depressed, and you are committed to making this work out, then I say jump through whatever hoops you need to. Depression is a nasty business, and it warps people's minds in ways that those with healthy, normal minds cannot even conceive of. I wish you all the best. Make sure she gets everything she needs. It's not going to be easy for you if you decide you want to give this 100% HUGS
boldjack Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 I'm firmly behind MBEG. Most MC is a total waste. If you will lie to your spouse, why wouldn't you lie to a stranger? If there is honesty and good-will on both sides, a trip for two to a bed and breakfast, will accomplish far more than 20 sessions with a marriage Counselor.
LifesontheUp Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Her description of our marriage as hopeless is a classic line from a depressed individual. I think this isn't unusual from a cheater - its justification. My xH told me he was depressed. He also told me he felt the marriage was over and I didn't love him because I never went with him to his specialist appointments when he was ill. I just laughed my head off at that because I'd been with him to 19 out of 20 of his appointments, I'd only missed one. Its funny how they hold onto the smallest things to justify what they know in their minds is wrong Please don't accept this, you do have choices and deserve respect. Don't drag this out or it will be you that'll need the psychiatrist not her.
Author Aberrant Posted November 10, 2009 Author Posted November 10, 2009 Thanks for the advice folks. Some of this was hard to hear but I see the truth in it. Made me think about why I am tearing my life apart to get her back, while she blames the affair on me and tells me she doesn't want to be with me. I do believe she is legitimately depressed, but that is no excuse for how she has treated me. I need to think about what to say to her and how to say it.
seibert253 Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Thanks for the advice folks. Some of this was hard to hear but I see the truth in it. Made me think about why I am tearing my life apart to get her back, while she blames the affair on me and tells me she doesn't want to be with me. I do believe she is legitimately depressed, but that is no excuse for how she has treated me. I need to think about what to say to her and how to say it. A, what you NEED to tell her is actually fairly simple: "Honey I'm committed to giving our marriage 100%, but you do not seem to share my commitment. You have a choice, commit to saving our marriage, or we need to start the D process. If you want to commit to our marriage, this is what you need to do to show me: 1. End all contact with the OM, and I will help you write him a NC letter 2. Total truthfulness, honesty, and transparency from you 3. IC and MC for us If you cannot commit to these, then you need to move out and I will D you". Simple, yet effective. Exactly how I brought this to my wife. Now, she waffled a little, saying she need time to think, was confused, yada yada. I said OK, you have 7 days to decide. She continued to stall, needed more time, blah, blah, blah. It took her actually seeing and reading the D papers to snap her out of it. A. I was just like you, giving her space, trying to understand, love her back into the marriage. All the while she was still talking with the OM. It wasn't until I stood my ground and got tough, did she fall off the fence. Stand tall my man. No retreat, no surrender
Author Aberrant Posted November 12, 2009 Author Posted November 12, 2009 I am trying not to issue demands or ultimatums because they will push her further away from me. We have MC again on Monday and before that session I am going to talk to her about recommitting to me. She has agreed to go no contact with the OM but she will see him at work and won't quit her job over this. She doesn't want to quit her job in a bad economy then be divorced in a couple months with no income. We discussed how she would handle seeing him at work and I believe he is going to handle it appropriately. Before our next counseling session I am going to tell her that I would like to see some sort of recommitment on her part and I would also like to hear her take ownership of her actions instead of blaming it on me because we grew apart.
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