Boundary Problem Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 We've been through MC and been seeing a mediator. This has been the roughest period of my life but I am getting through it. The roughest parts of life often bear the most fruit in terms of growth and depth. I had no idea who I was until I went through a divorce. Great opportunity to find out how your engine is built and that will tell you what kind of man to look for in the future (compatibility-wise)
Navin_R_Johnson Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 Ann, I have read your threads with interest. Change a few details and dates, and I think you could be my ex. I respect you and thank you for truly giving me insight into what might have been her thinking throughout her affairs and the breakup. I really think I see both sides now better than I did before. I still disagree with her selfish actions and the effects they are having on the kids (yes, there will be a huge impact). But in retrospect it was the most respectful thing she ever did, leaving me when she did. A few years later I am doing great. But the tornado that is her life still leaves a huge path of destruction everywhere she tries to find her next happiness. I finally got an unsolicited "I'm sorry" and admission that she made a "big mistake". It is really hard to watch this happen to her. But she made her bed. I gave her more chances than she probably deserved. Anyway, thanks for helping me understand the WAW's mindset in a way I had not before. And good luck in the future.
WalkInThePark Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 I have been reading your sad story with interest. I feel so sorry for you, your husband and your three lovely children. I do agree that you need a new marriage and I also agree that it should be with your husband. Having been married for such a long time I'm sure with the correct professional help, effort from both sides, you can reconnect and meet each others needs. It will take a long time but don't give up, stay strong and your marriage flourish. It is not because they have been married for a long time that this marriage is right. The problem is that ann got married from a position of weakness, not from a position of strenght. She never really grew up, made her own choices for her life and the choice for a partner who was compatible with this life. She married her husband because she did not really know what she wanted with her life and because there was strong but subtle pressure from family and friends. The marriage is unhealthy because there is a power unbalance. She behaves like a naughty child and he is the severe but just father. Boundaries are not respected. The forced sex is very bad but typical, a punishment for the bad girl who got drunk. Ann should leave her marriage and live on her own for a moment. Be very careful with the OM because he might use her as a rebound after his divorce.
Chrome Barracuda Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 The bottom line is ann can say what she wants, she's leaving her good marriage for another man. Simple as that. remember she never knew what love was, she's unhappy, blah,blah,blah. wayward speak for rewriting the marriage. Bottom line she wants to have her freedom to ho around. I'm being honest. but the problem is that she cannot act like the victim when her idea to leave the marriage is her idea. And hers alone! her husband is probably just frustrated and doesnt even care anymore. It aint amicable, he just stopped caring because ann isnt worth the fight. Why would she be. she has no idea what it means to be on her own. to do without, to pay child support, to not having the kids like you anymore. I wonder when will ann stop being the victim, stop sugar coating the affair and own up to it and be on her own. she says she wants to be alone, then be alone! her husband is not a bad man, she's just a bad wife. simple as that.
Author ann09 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 It is not because they have been married for a long time that this marriage is right. The problem is that ann got married from a position of weakness, not from a position of strenght. She never really grew up, made her own choices for her life and the choice for a partner who was compatible with this life. She married her husband because she did not really know what she wanted with her life and because there was strong but subtle pressure from family and friends. The marriage is unhealthy because there is a power unbalance. She behaves like a naughty child and he is the severe but just father. Boundaries are not respected. The forced sex is very bad but typical, a punishment for the bad girl who got drunk. Ann should leave her marriage and live on her own for a moment. Be very careful with the OM because he might use her as a rebound after his divorce. You hit the nail on the head with this post - except for the last part. But I won't get into that now. This marriage is very unhealthy - you are right in saying that. See - while posting in here I am getting the feeling that everyone thinks this is a new and recent thing to me. I have been trying and TRYING for years! It's not like I found someone new and said "ok well now I want out". This has been a struggle for me for over a decade. I only look back now and wonder why the hell I didn't do something about it years ago??? but then I think - I would have the 3 beautiful children I have. How can I have regrets when that would mean I regret having them? I know most in here don't understand this and only look at me as the bad guy - and I am not saying what I have done is right. But every situation is unique - every marriage has it's own issues. It's not black and white all the time. I got married - and it's been a struggle internally for me. I've done everything I could - trying to be a perfect wife - going through therapy - everything. I sit here with certainty that I will never love him the way he wants me to. I can't force myself to love him - I know some say that's a decision - but I just can't do it. I WISH I could! My life would be all the more easier. Who the hell wants to go through this?? if I felt I could make this choice - then I certainly would right?? It's like telling a homosexual that they shouldn't be gay and that they should choose to be straight!! You can't do that! Why is this so different?? I made a decision - years ago - so do I really have to stay and be miserable for the next 50 yrs of my life???
Author ann09 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 The bottom line is ann can say what she wants, she's leaving her good marriage for another man. Simple as that. remember she never knew what love was, she's unhappy, blah,blah,blah. wayward speak for rewriting the marriage. Bottom line she wants to have her freedom to ho around. I'm being honest. but the problem is that she cannot act like the victim when her idea to leave the marriage is her idea. And hers alone! her husband is probably just frustrated and doesnt even care anymore. It aint amicable, he just stopped caring because ann isnt worth the fight. Why would she be. she has no idea what it means to be on her own. to do without, to pay child support, to not having the kids like you anymore. I wonder when will ann stop being the victim, stop sugar coating the affair and own up to it and be on her own. she says she wants to be alone, then be alone! her husband is not a bad man, she's just a bad wife. simple as that. While I respect your opinion, I take great offense to the "ho around" comment. Think what you want of me - but that one hurt. You're a bitter, bitter person who obviously has deep rooted issues with someone that has hurt you. I am not that person. So stop the personal attacks.
Chrome Barracuda Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 While I respect your opinion, I take great offense to the "ho around" comment. Think what you want of me - but that one hurt. You're a bitter, bitter person who obviously has deep rooted issues with someone that has hurt you. I am not that person. So stop the personal attacks. It's not personal.... Basically your saying all the same crap that these OW have been saying for along time. it's all script... I havent been happy, I dont know what love is, the OM makes me feel special. Blah, blah, blah. It'd be different if you was going to focus on your future alone and be on your own and own up to the destruction of your marriage, to the breaking up of your family. But YOU DONT! So I cant be nice about it. Even now your considering a future with the OM! And even if that doesnt work out, your gonna chase the new high that affairs bring. You dont know what love is because your in love with being in love. You dont see! You cannot play the victim, when's the last time you put a true effort into the marriage without an outside influence? Never perhaps? I mean this marriage was doa on your say so... Your family and their life never had a chance, now it's all gonna be remarriage and step sibilings and blended familes. and awkward barbicues. I mean if I was your husband I wouldnt be your friend after this. I would not talk to you or even make this amicable. I would do everything in my power to keep my kids home and get YOU to leave. I mean why not you want out, why shouldnt you be the one to leave?
Author ann09 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 It's not personal.... Basically your saying all the same crap that these OW have been saying for along time. it's all script... I havent been happy, I dont know what love is, the OM makes me feel special. Blah, blah, blah. It'd be different if you was going to focus on your future alone and be on your own and own up to the destruction of your marriage, to the breaking up of your family. But YOU DONT! So I cant be nice about it. Even now your considering a future with the OM! And even if that doesnt work out, your gonna chase the new high that affairs bring. You dont know what love is because your in love with being in love. You dont see! You cannot play the victim, when's the last time you put a true effort into the marriage without an outside influence? Never perhaps? I mean this marriage was doa on your say so... Your family and their life never had a chance, now it's all gonna be remarriage and step sibilings and blended familes. and awkward barbicues. I mean if I was your husband I wouldnt be your friend after this. I would not talk to you or even make this amicable. I would do everything in my power to keep my kids home and get YOU to leave. I mean why not you want out, why shouldnt you be the one to leave? And I get what you're saying - I do! but I didn't go into this marriage hoping for failure. Even when I had those doubtful feelings I pushed them aside and worked on it. I am never going to be after ANYONE - I do not know if my future is going to be with the OM - he's a smart, independent person - one that has high hopes - but won't stand by me much longer. And that's a chance I have to take. I could very well be alone at the end of all this - and I have faced that fact. But deep down I know I will be HAPPIER - ALONE - not in a forced marriage. Doesn't my H deserve more??? I can tell you this - if there is no other man in my life ever - I can live with that. I have met love and faced it head on. but I am not some love struck teenager. I am a 40 yr old woman. If I have to live without that and just be the best damn mother I can be - then that's what I will do. It will be better than living this lie I have been living for so long. I know this all sounds scripted. I know that. And maybe I am trying to sugar coat everything. But I am being honest for the first time in my life - with myself. My mother keeps telling me this is so uncharacteristic of me. That's because I have smiled and put on this fascade for YEARS. I never wanted this. I tried hard to avoid it. I tried to be the best wife to him I could be. Should marriage be that much work?? Even my H doesn't think so. He knows how I feel. he knows everything. He doesn't want to be with me if I am not 100% happy. We just had this discussion last night. I feel if I have even the least bit of respect for him - I will let him go so he can find true happiness. If I am miserable and alone and struggling for the rest of my life, I can at least live with that. I don't expect him to support me - but the fact is, he doesn't want to raise our kids. That's always been my job. he makes the money and I do everything else. if someone is unhappy - he buys something to make it all better. Not faulting him - that's just the way he thinks love should be. I used to feel the same way. If I was sad - he would take me out - buy me something. Make it all better. Well I am at the point in my life where I just dont WANT anything anymore! Months and months of therapy have helped me realize that I have tried to find happiness in so many places. But then I always come back and feel complete and overwhelming sadness. I am not trying to play the victim here. I know that my lies and deception have been wrong - and I will live with that every single day - maybe my punishment will be to live a loveless life. I don't know. Maybe thats what I deserve.
nobmagnet Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 i think you miss the point ann you had an affaire. It is indefenceable. Most of us on here are having to deal with the other end of the deal. You should feel ashamed. You should feel bad. because you hadnt the bollocks or strength to not have an AFFAIRE. end of. you annoy me
Author ann09 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 You cannot play the victim, when's the last time you put a true effort into the marriage without an outside influence? Never perhaps? I have tried from day one. I haven't been having flings or affairs. I admit affairs are wrong - and if I could go back I would do things entirely different. I don't believe in cheating - no one deserves that. But there were years of trying to make my marriage work before there was an outside influence. I can't change what I have done. I wish I could. I can't go back and erase my lies. But I can grow up, better myself and my character, gain some integrity and move forward. If I stay with my H, I will only be lying to myself and everyone else in my life. I am not just following my heart anymore, but my head as well. This is a complete decision I have made with the full realization that I most likely won't be with the OM. A year from now I see myself alone - raising my kids - more at peace with myself. Loveless? Probably. But with peace in my heart that I did the right thing - for me, and my husband. He deserves more as well.
Author ann09 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 i think you miss the point ann you had an affaire. It is indefenceable. Most of us on here are having to deal with the other end of the deal. You should feel ashamed. You should feel bad. because you hadnt the bollocks or strength to not have an AFFAIRE. end of. you annoy me Agreed. And I do feel ashamed. And I had no strength. I lied, cheated and had no self worth. I am not trying to justify anything I've done. I haven't missed any point.
Chrome Barracuda Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 Blah, blah, blah. Even after all of this, all that talk guess what the OM is still in the picture. You say you met love??? Did you say the exact same thing when you met your husband? How do you know this OM is offering you love? How can you love someone else when you betray another. Oh and realize this if the OM will have an affair with a married woman when he is single what will he do when he's married to you!!!! Answer that what will he say and do when he wants outta that marriage? You never gave the marriage a chance... Bottom line even now you incorporate the OM into your future, even a sliver of him you keeping him there! So all this talk about being miserable and you havent been happy, is nonsense and lies. Take what you want but you and the OM isnt special... It isnt destiny, it isnt happenstance. When he's done getting what he wants from you, he'll toss you away, like OM usually do. I mean why stay with a woman who has no sense of loyalty when they are other women out there who will be loyal and when they meet you they will be single. Have you even explained to your children the true reason why you are getting divorced. I mean OWN IT! Simple as that! but dont be so naive to be the victim....is all im saying. You want out, so admit that and own it. You want to leave, you want to quit, the OM is not gonna be there possibly if you stay longer that's why you want out so bad ann. Be an adult and man the hell up and own it.
Author ann09 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 Blah, blah, blah. Even after all of this, all that talk guess what the OM is still in the picture. You say you met love??? Did you say the exact same thing when you met your husband? How do you know this OM is offering you love? How can you love someone else when you betray another. Oh and realize this if the OM will have an affair with a married woman when he is single what will he do when he's married to you!!!! Answer that what will he say and do when he wants outta that marriage? You never gave the marriage a chance... Bottom line even now you incorporate the OM into your future, even a sliver of him you keeping him there! So all this talk about being miserable and you havent been happy, is nonsense and lies. Take what you want but you and the OM isnt special... It isnt destiny, it isnt happenstance. When he's done getting what he wants from you, he'll toss you away, like OM usually do. I mean why stay with a woman who has no sense of loyalty when they are other women out there who will be loyal and when they meet you they will be single. Have you even explained to your children the true reason why you are getting divorced. I mean OWN IT! Simple as that! but dont be so naive to be the victim....is all im saying. You want out, so admit that and own it. You want to leave, you want to quit, the OM is not gonna be there possibly if you stay longer that's why you want out so bad ann. Be an adult and man the hell up and own it. duly noted. I don't know why he would want me - I ask myself that everyday. I don't know why anyone would want me. Again, I am not proud of the turns my life has taken. Not by a long shot. You've given me lots to think about. The "own it" part anyway.
floridapad Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 Ann, My W was in the same situation as you and has said ALL the same stuff. We seperated and off she drifted towards the OM. But in her mind she was not in love with me because she didn't have those "magical" feelings she had for the OM. She told me she has been unhappy for years. Actually she even said that she never had those feelings for me and perhaps was never in love with me to begin with. "Yes dear you also never had an affair either and feelings and images are magified times ten when you are married and in an affair or craving something else"...Fast forward 6 months and behold the OM is not quite the Prince charming she thought he was. Not an Ahole but the luster wore off and those magical feelings and Romantic ideals became crushed. Now she has broken up the family and will live with the affect on the children for life, has an unrealistic idea of love, and the OM is not the bomb and they are not seeing each other. With some defogging and real truth telling she admitted she left the marriage because of the OM and those new love romantic "feelings" she felt she had to have and not because we were incompatible as she once explained. She also admitted it was an addiction as all affairs are. She is more miserable than ever. Even had a nervous breakdown. On anti depressants and trying to figure out how her world of romantic love could crumble and how she could take me, her children ,her family,parents, sister, brothers and everyone else with her. This is normally a VERY strong person. She was VERY sure of what she was doing at the time of the seperation. Now she sometimes reminisces that she wishes things could go back to how they were. Huh? But I thought you were unhappy? She is still defogging and who knows if she will come to the conclusion that love is not a hormone rush or fairytale romances. But what I do know is if that "feeling" is something she feels she needs to have then whoa she will live a miserable life trying to chase that dream. Good luck..
FeelingLonely98 Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 duly noted. I don't know why he would want me - I ask myself that everyday. I don't know why anyone would want me. Again, I am not proud of the turns my life has taken. Not by a long shot. You've given me lots to think about. The "own it" part anyway. Ann - if you go back to your H and REALLY try to work on the M, then you would be a worthy mate again if it didn't work out. You never tried ...... Not talking about going in trying to fix it with half a heart or even with 90%, but 110%. You have kids. You did love him once. Do you think everyone is destined to find the ultimate mate that they can love more than anyone else in the world? NO. We find compatible mates. We marry them. We profess unconditional love. We make it work and we can be happy. Unless there are bad elements (abuse, addictions, ...) - i.e., destructive forces at work, then spouses need to at least try to fix any problems, not run from them. For God's sake you have kids. TRY, really TRY, at least once. Ann, though many have bashed you - you may not know it but I have sort of defended u on some posts for having the balls to get on LS and lay it on the line. However, I have never really read anything that tells us that you REALLY tried. You want to say you tried - but not really try, you tell yourself in your mind you wish you loved him, ... ALL of this is to make Ann feel less guiilty and more justified. Guarantee if you never met this OM you would not have left the M. Guaranteed!! And like CB said, your OM is a lowlife piece of sh*t, ... sleeping with a M woman who is a Mother. What a scumbag. Why do you want him? My STBXW left a good M 3 months and three days ago. She loved me for 16 years. She's 47. Now all of a sudden she never loved me, was never happy, and should have never married me. Sure fooled me. Know the real reason why she changed? She found an 18 yr old bf during her MLC, and discovered her true feelings that she never knew existed. (yes, 18!!) Now she really knows love!! BS. She loved me tons up until the last month or so. I sensed something. This was probably during the EA stage. She stepped in to that fog and is still there. And she never once tried to address the so-called problems and work on the M. That sucks. I think we had a better M than most and could have been great forever, until this. Ann, please really try for once. You have everything to gain by trying and nothing to lose...
floridapad Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 Yes Fl - Try. But if you ask her she will say she tried and tried to fall in love with her H but just can't. How can you try more when you feel you have tried so much already??? She is unhappy because she has a great man, nice family but gosh darn it she doesn't have those magical feelings she had with OM. Never did. Simple truth is she can't try, never did try while OM is even REMOTELY in the picture or in her head or those romantic ideas of love are feeding her desires. If those magical "feelings" are something she has convinced herself is the ONLY way to be happy she will set her self up for a tough fall. Yes Ann grow up and own your desires and dreams. If you really want to try, listen to womens stories who are in the same situation as you or even worse. Try a support network for women who had affairs and broke up their marriages with good husbands. Dump the OM and send a no contact letter for life. Now that is trying. All this other BS about saying she tried and tried will be just that. B.S. Her childrens health is at stake and she is not willing to truly try. Wow!!!
Author ann09 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 Sigh. None of you are getting it so I am going to end this thread. I would die for my kids before letting anything happen to them. I am not looking for "magical feelings". I am just looking forward to feeling peaceful in my life. Most likely without love. But peace. Right now my children are suffering because I am not happy - and neither is my H. It's not an ideal situation right now. I can only say "i tried" so many times. I can't type about 14 yrs of trying all in one post. I am leaving it at that. Thank you ALL for posting - helping - I appreciate every word. I wish everyone the very best - no one deserves to be cheated on - no one deserves to be treated unfairly. But no one deserves a lifetime of misery either. My best to all.
HeavenOrHell Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 Surely the point is that she wouldn't have those feelings for OM if she was in love with her husband? She has feelings for OM precisely BECAUSE she doesn't have those feelings for her husband and never has. She will not fall in love with her husband if OM disappears! My understanding is that whether OM is on the scene or not she has come to the decision that she will never be in love with her husband and would rather be alone than stay with someone she does not love. I would hate and resent it if my ex had stayed with me out of pity, duty or guilt. Yes Fl - Try. But if you ask her she will say she tried and tried to fall in love with her H but just can't. How can you try more when you feel you have tried so much already??? She is unhappy because she has a great man, nice family but gosh darn it she doesn't have those magical feelings she had with OM. Never did. Simple truth is she can't try, never did try while OM is even REMOTELY in the picture or in her head or those romantic ideas of love are feeding her desires. If those magical "feelings" are something she has convinced herself is the ONLY way to be happy she will set her self up for a tough fall. Yes Ann grow up and own your desires and dreams. If you really want to try, listen to womens stories who are in the same situation as you or even worse. Try a support network for women who had affairs and broke up their marriages with good husbands. Dump the OM and send a no contact letter for life. Now that is trying. All this other BS about saying she tried and tried will be just that. B.S. Her childrens health is at stake and she is not willing to truly try. Wow!!!
FeelingLonely98 Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 Sigh. None of you are getting it so I am going to end this thread. I would die for my kids before letting anything happen to them. I am not looking for "magical feelings". I am just looking forward to feeling peaceful in my life. Most likely without love. But peace. Right now my children are suffering because I am not happy - and neither is my H. It's not an ideal situation right now. I can only say "i tried" so many times. I can't type about 14 yrs of trying all in one post. I am leaving it at that. Thank you ALL for posting - helping - I appreciate every word. I wish everyone the very best - no one deserves to be cheated on - no one deserves to be treated unfairly. But no one deserves a lifetime of misery either. My best to all. 1) Ann never once described on LS how she "tried" after everything was out in the open with the H. She has been "trying" in a closet all by herself all these years. Won't work. 2) She is now leaving LS because she was hoping to get validation for her decisions - and she didn't find it. If it was all set in stone then she would not be here. She is still conflicted. And she wanted validation where she didn't deserve any. Maybe there is another website wayward spouses support each other and feel they are the victim and how the BS's deserved it all???
Author ann09 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 She will not fall in love with her husband if OM disappears! Bingo. ooops I was supposed to have left.
Author ann09 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 1) Ann never once described on LS how she "tried" after everything was out in the open with the H. She has been "trying" in a closet all by herself all these years. Won't work. 2) She is now leaving LS because she was hoping to get validation for her decisions - and she didn't find it. If it was all set in stone then she would not be here. She is still conflicted. And she wanted validation where she didn't deserve any. Maybe there is another website wayward spouses support each other and feel they are the victim and how the BS's deserved it all??? I only came here to vent - get some clarity - not for validation. Even the most difficult posts I appreciated. I never expected to get an award for being a cheater. I never expected a pat on the back. Just wanted a little clarity for myself. I got it. Just frustrating because it's impossible to explain everything in a post. Being judged is hard - but that's what you get when you come into a public forum such as this. And I knew that I would hear all sorts of opinions when I came here. I am not looking for everyone to applaud me at all. I do feel everyone here wants me to get defensive - and that at times I am "that woman" that scorned everyone and they can all throw daggers at me. But that's ok. Like I said countless times, no one here can hurt me as much as I have hurt myself. Be honest. Have integrity. Be good to your loved ones. I don't ever recommend marrying anyone for the wrong reasons - or cheating. I don't recommend doing anything I have done. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. But this is my life and I have to keep living it. Just trying to do it in the best way possible so that when I am old I can say I haven't any regrets.
FeelingLonely98 Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 Bingo. ooops I was supposed to have left. Then why are you here in the Divorce and Separation section of LS? Why - If you are so sure exactly how the future will be? I thought you had some internal conflict, therefore, post on LS to try to see all sides, to figure things out.
floridapad Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 Heaven or Hell, The point is not just the OM but the "idea" of love. If her version of love is represented by those feelings she had in an affair or with the OM prior to the marriage then that is her version. Unfortunately, her version is the same version that many people decribe as love only to find out later that all that stuff wears off. Divorce rate is 50%. Affairs in marriages are something like 40-50%. If you don't grow in your version of love and get past the notion of being solely "romatically" in love your done. Love changes love morphs. She will have to go find that out, but sorry if you think I don't beleive the OM has a little something to do with her inability to "try". If you attribute ALL of your unhappiness to the fact you are not "in love" your toast. My W also said she would rather be alone. Guess what? She is absolutely miserable. She has been alone for 6 months. She even went on a few dates on match.com, trying to find happiness. She said ALL the same thing to me that Ann is saying about her husband. ALL of the same things. Yet she wishes somehow she could go back to the way it was before the affair. Ann I truly do wish you luck. Persue your dreams with the OM. It will be the only way you will know for sure. You will kick yourself if you don't. I truly do mean that. It was the only way my W found out.
Author ann09 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 Then why are you here in the Divorce and Separation section of LS? Why - If you are so sure exactly how the future will be? I thought you had some internal conflict, therefore, post on LS to try to see all sides, to figure things out. I was googling info about divorce - separation - wanting to read stories - figure stuff out. I came upon this exact section of the forum.
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