Author ann09 Posted February 25, 2010 Author Posted February 25, 2010 Nothing to be proud of??? I bet you're wrong. Wow - you have practically zero self-esteem ... Ann - do you not have good friends? Then you can say that you are a good loyal friend. That's something to be proud of - an accomplishment. Do you have any education? (even just a HS diploma) That's something to be proud of - an accomplishment. Do you ever volunteer and help people out whether formal volunteering or just helping a friend or family member? That's something to be proud of - an accomplishment. Are you religious or spiritual? That's something to be proud of - an accomplishment. Were you a good cook, homemaker, ... ETC.? That's something to be proud of - an accomplishment. Are you passionate about anything? (politics? reading? a hobby? ... ETC.?) That's something to be proud of - an accomplishment. All of these are things to be proud of in some sense. There's probably hundreds more? Not on the level of offspring for sure - but I think you get my drift. YGG may be on to something ... you feel little or no self-worth. One's children are a great sense of pride and probably the most prideful thing any of us will ever have. But that can NOT be enough. Think about this - if you really have nothing to be proud of - then make something of it. Tell me 5 things you can be proud of. (NOT the OM) I have a college degree. I volunteer at an animal shelter. I have a slew of friends. Yeah, I guess you're right. At times though I do wonder my purpose on this earth - it seems my life consists of driving my kids to their activities...cooking....cleaning...and making my H sadder every day. Sigh. I know you are right - I think that when I posted that I was having a little pity party for myself. Thanks for making me think about things I appreciate in my life.
FeelingLonely98 Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 I have a college degree. I volunteer at an animal shelter. I have a slew of friends. Yeah, I guess you're right. At times though I do wonder my purpose on this earth - it seems my life consists of driving my kids to their activities...cooking....cleaning...and making my H sadder every day. Sigh. I know you are right - I think that when I posted that I was having a little pity party for myself. Thanks for making me think about things I appreciate in my life. Good for you ... See - you can and should be a proud woman. Many disagree with much of your actions (me included) but don't ever think that because you may not be proud of what happened in your M then there is nothing to be proud of! Oh, um, See that bold part above --> We ALL do that or did that honey!! Not unique to you, TRUST ME! "making my H sadder every day" --> I thought your H has resigned himself to the D? He is not going to get sadder. In fact the sooner you guys move towards the inevitable - the sooner you (and him!) can start to be happy again. Good Luck! PEACE!
Gunny376 Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 When I said "Back off Ann" it wasn't my intent to imply nor for those members of the forum to infer that I was taking herside. But an attempt to stem 'mob rule!
White Flower Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 You were honest, confessed everything and agreed to go to counseling with your H. None of it is working so why beat yourself up? You can D, share custody of your kids, and live a full and happy life finally. You gave it your best shot, now go make the best of your future. Your H can make a new and better future for himself as well. Stop caring what everybody else thinks.
White Flower Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 I have a college degree. I volunteer at an animal shelter. I have a slew of friends. Yeah, I guess you're right. At times though I do wonder my purpose on this earth - it seems my life consists of driving my kids to their activities...cooking....cleaning...and making my H sadder every day. Sigh. I know you are right - I think that when I posted that I was having a little pity party for myself. Thanks for making me think about things I appreciate in my life.So far it appears that your purpose is to start learning how to live for yourself and not everybody else. Seriously.
You Go Girl Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 Reading these last posts, and seeing that my last post wasn't addressed, makes me concerned that other posters and OP are going to think me heartless that she has nothing to be proud of, or no achievements. That's not true. I'm concerned about her new found confidence, new found courage. That it comes from the OM, and not from herself. She sees it as that he gave her confidence she already deserved and H denied her. Like someone telling a butterfly that they have wings and they are no longer a caterpillar. I also think it extremely important--that reality has to be a part of her game plan--and reality involves money, no two ways about it, especially with 3? kids to support. If by chance she should divorce M and marry OM, without getting a new career, she's traded one person in control of her destiny for another. I'm scrutinizing the OM and his possible motivations. He knows for sure that she has no job. Yet he pursues her. This can only mean that he wants to fill H's shoes, or, isn't thinking himself that she will soon face a financial crisis. Soon could be a year or more down the road. A year passes quickly. I can't see how I could be wrong to question this part of the equation? The what if's are endless...but one thing is sure--financial independence is absolutely necessary to be in control of one's own destiny, and not be trading the devil you know for the devil you don't. Ann--it's terrific you have friends and wonderful that you care for animals and help out at a shelter. The kind of people who do that are kind and good natured at heart. I was not bashing you as a person--just a reality check financially because I worry for future confidence to continue, not be destroyed.
Author ann09 Posted February 26, 2010 Author Posted February 26, 2010 Reading these last posts, and seeing that my last post wasn't addressed, makes me concerned that other posters and OP are going to think me heartless that she has nothing to be proud of, or no achievements. That's not true. I'm concerned about her new found confidence, new found courage. That it comes from the OM, and not from herself. She sees it as that he gave her confidence she already deserved and H denied her. Like someone telling a butterfly that they have wings and they are no longer a caterpillar. I also think it extremely important--that reality has to be a part of her game plan--and reality involves money, no two ways about it, especially with 3? kids to support. If by chance she should divorce M and marry OM, without getting a new career, she's traded one person in control of her destiny for another. I'm scrutinizing the OM and his possible motivations. He knows for sure that she has no job. Yet he pursues her. This can only mean that he wants to fill H's shoes, or, isn't thinking himself that she will soon face a financial crisis. Soon could be a year or more down the road. A year passes quickly. I can't see how I could be wrong to question this part of the equation? The what if's are endless...but one thing is sure--financial independence is absolutely necessary to be in control of one's own destiny, and not be trading the devil you know for the devil you don't. Ann--it's terrific you have friends and wonderful that you care for animals and help out at a shelter. The kind of people who do that are kind and good natured at heart. I was not bashing you as a person--just a reality check financially because I worry for future confidence to continue, not be destroyed. Such valid points and I appreciate this kind of input. Me ending my marriage isn't about wanting to jump from one dependency to another. I recognize my failure to make a life for myself and where my low esteem stems from. If I pursue a relationship with the OM after my divorce it would be incredibly different. I don't want to depend on anyone. I think the healthiest relationships are those that are equal on every level. I do need to discover who I am and what I want out of life. I miss working. I miss the interaction with people. Although I am very much needed in this world by my kids, at times I just want more. More of a purpose. I refuse to jump from one dependency to another and plan on really focusing on my life and what it means to me.
BearMox Posted February 27, 2010 Posted February 27, 2010 (edited) Expect when he would call her kiddo???!!! She says she even told him her opinion on the "pet name" and he still did it.... Another man who heard her, but apparently never listened.... Ann would be better off making a decision that will make her happy, so that she can be the best mother she can be to her children and grow as an individual. Ann is not unfeeling towards others, she is torn between self-sacrifice and and what she feels within herself. Urging someone to stick with it when every nerve in their body is screaming for help and understanding is just cruel. People are going to do what they want to do. And nothing will stop them. Thank God for that, actually. Hi Ann. Thanks for sharing, your a success at being transparent. I've read this whole thread with great interest! When I read your words I listen close trying to feel your heart, difficult as it is through a forum. SimplyBeingLoved is right. Our feet will lead us towards what we really want. Most of us don't know what desires are really driving where our feet are leading us. I don't know all thats in my heart, but choose to pursue that which is good. So many of us are jaded here, myself included. *heavy sigh* Our societies deeply need successful family units to have multigenerational success. I hope we all can get better at choosing life partners, keeping our vows and serving others. In my life, whenever my focus was on me things would get wanky. Our children in our divorced homes will be stable people, if their parents continue to love and put them first. Its becomes harder to provide love, a low conflict environment, stability, security, good encouragement and discipline through a divorce. I hope you and your STBXH are successful at that. You are a very smart woman. I hope you make wise choices. I'd encourage you to seek God with all your heart. Do what He says Edited February 27, 2010 by BearMox
dgiirl Posted February 27, 2010 Posted February 27, 2010 Ann, I think You go girl has some extremely valid points. You and your husband might have come to an agreement of you staying in the house to raise your kids, but does that mean he will support you for the rest of your life? How long will that arrangement last? Is that really fair to him? Is that really in your best interest? You are essentially allowing yourself to be a kept woman. Do you think the next man that comes into your life will look favorably on this? Personally, if I was a man, and I met you, and knew your ex husband was still financially supporting you, I would question if you two are seriously divorced and I would question your ethics for allowing a man to support you, especially since you are the one walking away from the marriage. It's been three months since your initial post. What have you done to improve your life? What steps have you taken to become self sufficient and independent? What steps have you taken for self improvement? Are you taking any steps to find a job, or is that just *if* you have to? It seems you are in limbo, not taking any proactive steps towards your future. I'm not advocating rushing out right now and get a divorce. I think it's a bit hypocritical of those who are bashing you for wanting to leave your husband and in the same breath telling you you have to get a divorce right now. You've been honest with your husband and he is a big boy and can make his own decisions. At least you are giving him some time to grieve before ripping the bandage off completely. It's something my exh never gave to me. At least in his eyes, he has a "chance" to make things work, and if it still doesn't work, he can leave knowing he tried. That will help in his grieving. So stay, as long as you both feel right about it, as long as you remain honest with him. I caution you tho. In _your_ best interest, it's wiser if you do get a divorce now while your husband is in such an agreeing mood. His generosity might simply be in hopes to prove his love to you. There are 5 stages to grief and one of them is bargaining. He might be willing to provide the world for you now in hopes you'll change your mind. However, the longer you prolong the divorce, the more he comes to terms with you leaving, the more he can seriously contemplate the situation and his future willingness to support you for the rest of his life. In _HIS_ best interest, I think you should stay. Give him the time to grieve so when you do draw up divorce papers he is making agreements based on whats in his best interest instead of emotions. Unfortunately, I don't know his emotional state of being. It could be that you both have been mourning your dead marriage for a long time already and he's already come to terms with you leaving. In that case, he could be sincere in his generosity. However, I still encourage you to become self sufficient and independent. You should start looking for a job, even if it's a part-time job. You cant leach off your husband completely.
karnak Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Ann, 1 - Get a divorce. I think everyone now can see that your marriage is over. 2 - Find a job (VERY IMPORTANT) 3 - Assure your financial independence. 4 - After you've acquired a real independence you can start thinking about your emotional happiness. It's obvious you've got really strong feelings for the other man. If he (or any other man) loves you he'll encourage you on becoming an independant woman.
FeelingLonely98 Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 I'm not advocating rushing out right now and get a divorce. I think it's a bit hypocritical of those who are bashing you for wanting to leave your husband and in the same breath telling you you have to get a divorce right now. You've been honest with your husband and he is a big boy and can make his own decisions. At least you are giving him some time to grieve before ripping the bandage off completely. It's something my exh never gave to me. At least in his eyes, he has a "chance" to make things work, and if it still doesn't work, he can leave knowing he tried. That will help in his grieving. So stay, as long as you both feel right about it, as long as you remain honest with him. To ME that would be the WORST thing to do. Get it over with. I am grateful every day my XW ripped the bandage off in one fell swoop - instead of little by little. WOW - To think I might still be in the place I was six months ago!???!?!?!!
OliveOyl Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 I don't get why you feel you need the approval of all these random strangers who are coming from completely different viewpoints, life goals, life purposes, experiences, backgrounds, and whatnot. Why do you feel the need to bash yourself or let yourself be bashed? Just choose what you want and move on. Your life is your own, not your husband's, not your kids, not your OMs, it's yours only. Make what you will of it, and there is no need to defend yourself or "kill yourself" over your decision. Most of the people responding here are so caught in such a completely different moral viewpoint (yes viewpoint.. not TRUTH - but viewpoint) that they will never ever be in a position to give you any wise counsel. Your only wise counsel can come from within.
LonelyTiger Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 I don't get why you feel you need the approval of all these random strangers who are coming from completely different viewpoints, life goals, life purposes, experiences, backgrounds, and whatnot. Why do you feel the need to bash yourself or let yourself be bashed? Just choose what you want and move on. Your life is your own, not your husband's, not your kids, not your OMs, it's yours only. Make what you will of it, and there is no need to defend yourself or "kill yourself" over your decision. Most of the people responding here are so caught in such a completely different moral viewpoint (yes viewpoint.. not TRUTH - but viewpoint) that they will never ever be in a position to give you any wise counsel. Your only wise counsel can come from within. Well said OliveOyl!
FeelingLonely98 Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 I don't get why you feel you need the approval of all these random strangers who are coming from completely different viewpoints, life goals, life purposes, experiences, backgrounds, and whatnot. Why do you feel the need to bash yourself or let yourself be bashed? Just choose what you want and move on. Your life is your own, not your husband's, not your kids, not your OMs, it's yours only. Make what you will of it, and there is no need to defend yourself or "kill yourself" over your decision. Most of the people responding here are so caught in such a completely different moral viewpoint (yes viewpoint.. not TRUTH - but viewpoint) that they will never ever be in a position to give you any wise counsel. Your only wise counsel can come from within. OO - What you say is true but Ann came here looking for "help" and advice (aka "viewpoints") I suspect. That is the main reason for this thread on this online community right? She is not receiving unsolicited "viewpoints". She and others feel lost and want input and LS gives them some of this. Yes, Ann's life is her own and this is her decision ... but to say other's posts are not "wise" is a bit off don't you think? I do think Ann has enough to make a final decision now. I wish and hope she makes this soon, for her and her H and her kids. PEACE!
karnak Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 I do think Ann has enough to make a final decision now. I wish and hope she makes this soon, for her and her H and her kids. PEACE! I agree. She has heard enough already. Time to finally weight the "pro's" and the "con's" and give your first step to a new life, Ann.
Steadfast Posted March 2, 2010 Posted March 2, 2010 Most of the people responding here are so caught in such a completely different moral viewpoint (yes viewpoint.. not TRUTH - but viewpoint) that they will never ever be in a position to give you any wise counsel. Your only wise counsel can come from within. Then what may I ask, are you doing here? I read your background, and it's clear you have an agenda. What that is entirely only you know, but you do have one. Not feeling the need to exonerate myself, I can freely say in all honestly I have none; my marriage is over and my fate as a divorced man is sealed. I can however, share from experience what and where certain decisions may lead. These matters do not only apply to each individually; for it is obvious, if not for human nature alone, the very clear and distinct pattern of marital suffering. This upsets some, frees others...depending which side you fall on. There is a truth. Always and for certain. It is not relevant or open for debate. Whether or not it is accurately represented here however, is- Best of luck in your search for it.
OliveOyl Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 OO - What you say is true but Ann came here looking for "help" and advice (aka "viewpoints") I suspect. That is the main reason for this thread on this online community right? She is not receiving unsolicited "viewpoints". She and others feel lost and want input and LS gives them some of this. Yes, Ann's life is her own and this is her decision ... but to say other's posts are not "wise" is a bit off don't you think? I do think Ann has enough to make a final decision now. I wish and hope she makes this soon, for her and her H and her kids. PEACE! I've been watching this thread for months. It's past the point of advice now. I see a lot of bashing from her (self-bashing) and others, and she keeps coming back for more, it seems. I just wonder why, it seems unnecessary. The reason I say they are not wise is not that the advice is inherently bad. It is just that most people who are bashing are obviously coming very a very, very different positions and philosophies than Ann. It's like telling a devout Christian to accept a Buddhist philosophy. It's not going to happen. Movement and change can happen when someone who is close to where someone else is (or has been there) can give them a little "nudge" in one direction or another. Not from someone who is at a completely polarized viewpoint.
dgiirl Posted March 3, 2010 Posted March 3, 2010 To ME that would be the WORST thing to do. Get it over with. I am grateful every day my XW ripped the bandage off in one fell swoop - instead of little by little. WOW - To think I might still be in the place I was six months ago!???!?!?!! We do not know the emotional state of the husband. You are assuming he is in constant turmoil because that is what you and I had experienced when our spouses left. However, by the sounds of it, he seems amicable towards the divorce. There doesn't seem to be a constant questioning or begging for another chance. There doesn't seem to be any acts of anger or revenge on his part. Maybe he has accepted and mourned his marriage already, years ago? It wouldn't be uncommon. Plus, she's been completely honest in her feelings towards him. He is a grown man capable of making his own decisions. Neither are pushing for a divorce, so let them both make their own decisions on how they want to part. It is much better for the kids if they can part on amicable terms instead of pain or hurt. If that means sticking together until both are completely ready to part, then that is their choice and more power to them. I had my spouse literally abandon me. I mean, here today, gone tomorrow. That is the BIGGEST pain I've ever experienced. I wish he had the balls to be as honest as Ann had been. At least telling me his unhappiness, giving me a chance, going to counseling, letting me gradually accept the divorce, accepting his own responsibility instead of dumping it all on me all in one shot and then abandoning me. Just another point of view.
FeelingLonely98 Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 We do not know the emotional state of the husband. You are assuming he is in constant turmoil because that is what you and I had experienced when our spouses left. However, by the sounds of it, he seems amicable towards the divorce. There doesn't seem to be a constant questioning or begging for another chance. There doesn't seem to be any acts of anger or revenge on his part. Maybe he has accepted and mourned his marriage already, years ago? It wouldn't be uncommon. Plus, she's been completely honest in her feelings towards him. He is a grown man capable of making his own decisions. Neither are pushing for a divorce, so let them both make their own decisions on how they want to part. It is much better for the kids if they can part on amicable terms instead of pain or hurt. If that means sticking together until both are completely ready to part, then that is their choice and more power to them. I had my spouse literally abandon me. I mean, here today, gone tomorrow. That is the BIGGEST pain I've ever experienced. I wish he had the balls to be as honest as Ann had been. At least telling me his unhappiness, giving me a chance, going to counseling, letting me gradually accept the divorce, accepting his own responsibility instead of dumping it all on me all in one shot and then abandoning me. Just another point of view. dgiirl - Excellent points. However, I would guess most WASs who are willing to "give it a chance" have their minds made up and are just biding their time, letting it sink in, hoping the BS will eventually feel a D is needed, ... THEN they will leave for good and not feel so guilty. Only Ann knows if she falls into this scenario. In my situation, and apparently many other stories I've read here on LS, the WAS had no intention of ever giving the relationshio a chance. JMHO... PEACE!
hopesndreams Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 dgiirl - Excellent points. However, I would guess most WASs who are willing to "give it a chance" have their minds made up and are just biding their time, letting it sink in, hoping the BS will eventually feel a D is needed, ... THEN they will leave for good and not feel so guilty. Only Ann knows if she falls into this scenario. In my situation, and apparently many other stories I've read here on LS, the WAS had no intention of ever giving the relationshio a chance. JMHO... PEACE! Another way for them to let their selfishness shine. They make their decision to leave you but they feel as though the sun shines outta their azz. They have their W/H completely destroyed by their actions and feel, wow, they are really gonna hurt when I up and leave them. It's kinda like a rush of "I'm so great", the betrayed take abuse but still love them. Hmmmm, they think...how can I take advantage of this? My ego needs a good stroke. So, let's see. Oh, I got it! I will lead them to believe that there is still a chance of together forever and when I am really ready, I will let them down gently, be gone but because of the way it was done, they won't hate me for it. Everyone's happy!
FeelingLonely98 Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 Another way for them to let their selfishness shine. They make their decision to leave you but they feel as though the sun shines outta their azz. They have their W/H completely destroyed by their actions and feel, wow, they are really gonna hurt when I up and leave them. It's kinda like a rush of "I'm so great", the betrayed take abuse but still love them. Hmmmm, they think...how can I take advantage of this? My ego needs a good stroke. So, let's see. Oh, I got it! I will lead them to believe that there is still a chance of together forever and when I am really ready, I will let them down gently, be gone but because of the way it was done, they won't hate me for it. I never understood why the WAS wants to still be loved (or at least not hated) when they walk away... Everyone's happy! Well, in the long run, usually it is the BS that is happy and the WAS is the unhappy one. P.S. hnd --> loved the "sun shines outta their azz" comment.
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