confession. scared.

[karnak]

This thread is getting weirder and weirder...

 

Ann, please read this: It is my sincere opinion on the subject.

 

From those posts of yours that I've read I could see that you seem to be an educated person, and you seem to have had a good upringing and a happy childhood.

 

I think you've already made up your mind and are advancing towards divorce. I know this situation of yours is not about your OM. It's about you. And your struggle to achieve happiness for yourself and the ones you love.

 

I know what the OM did to you. He helped you to discover feelings within you that you thought you never had or that you imagined were long since buried. You rediscovered the most beautiful part of your soul. I know this may sound like poetic crap, but it is not. I know because that same thing happened to me.

 

I fell in love with several women along my life. Yet, only one of them made me know true love (which is very different from lust or passion). A feeling I had never felt before and which I did not feel later. I finnally understood the inner beauty within myself and within most human beings. A beauty which, before, I considered to be non-existant. In fact, I was a very bitter man... I considered myself an evil person and thought that all the others were like me or worse.

 

These feelings are the best part of yourself, Ann. They were not created by the OM, but he probably helped you look within yourself. And it is these feelings that you must try to make flourish not only within yourself, but also within those around you.

 

If divorce is the only way for you to be happy, then divorce. If you continue to stay in an hunhappy marriage, you'll only grow bitter and grow resentment against your husband and your children. Later, as frustration grows, perhaps you'll start to hate your husband and your kids and see them as your jailers, rather than your family.

Who knows? Perhaps later you'll even begin to have affairs just to hurt your husband like so many married and frustrated women do.

 

Are you worried for the effects that divorce will have on your kids? Don't. Contrary to what most people on this thread say, divorce will not destroy your kid's brains or their soul. Society may.

 

I personally know many happily married couples (some, for more than 30 years) whose children are very unhappy and emotionally unstable people. Unlike their parents, their marriages or relationships are very unstable, fragile, violent and loveless. In fact, even if their parents married for love, their kids seem to never find it, regardless of how hard they look. In fact, some only care about money or sex, and don't give a crap about love.

 

I happen to have friends who are children of divorced parents. And I can confirm that they are very mature and stable persons. I'm talking of men and women who, despite the failure in their parents marriages, really believe in true love and respect between husband and wife. In fact, all of these friends of mine never cheated in any of his relationships (unlike some of the kids of "happily married couples"), and always respected his girlfriends. He's one of the most honest and serious people I know. He's now happily married and his wife gave birth to his first son a few days ago. And he told me recently that he really respects his wife and doesn't intend to destroy his marriage like his parents did. Why? Because he says he really loves his wife.

 

So, as you can see, divorce doesn't destroy the lives of children. A loveless upbringing, selfishness and resentment DO.

 

Ann, in case you're not so sure you want to advance to advance towards a divorce, you can try to take a "break" for some time.

 

Go live alone for a period. Or live with a friend or your parents. Try to "find" yourself and what you want to do with your life. Distance yourself from your husband and the OM. Tell your children you're going on a journey or something (or take them with you on your "mommy's vacation").

 

Who knows? Maybe all alone with yourself you'll start to realize your marriage can be saved and that you really love your husband. Or you'll finally decide you're better all alone by yourself. Try this aproach. I'm sure your husband will support you.

 

I can speak for myself that there's nothing live living alone for a time to really know who you are, your weaknesses and all the ghosts from the past who hinder your evolution.

 

That's all I had to write. Remember, Ann: this is just my opinion on things. It's subjective and based upon my life's experiences. Only you know how you feel. Only you may know what's best for you. If you think this is all rubbish, then it's ok.

 

If you took the time to read this, I thank you.

[HeavenOrHell]

You were in shock and disbelief hun, and possibly fear, I have heard this happening to other women who have been raped.

 

 

 

It's amazing how we grow and change. Back then I was timid and stupid. If that happened to me now, holy hell I would have freaked. I was almost testing him - I kept thinking - noooo, he won't.....omg he is! It was as if I wasn't in my body - I just laid there in disbelief. Why I didn't get up and freak out I don't know.

[floridapad]

Heavanorhell

 

I agree that the OM is a byproduct of not being in love with the H, but for her to say she was NEVER in love with H now that she has had an affair and become infatuated or "fallen in love" with OM, is a bit suspect. People DO rewrite their marriages and feelings after they have had an affair. It's fairly common (so say the "experts") as you know.

[karnak]

Heavanorhell

 

People DO rewrite their marriages and feelings after they have had an affair. It's fairly common (so say the "experts") as you know.

 

Don't believe in the "experts", floridapad. Back where I live, the country's perhaps most famous "couple therapist" (she's in her early 40's) just left a marriage of 19 years and two kids, for no apparent reason.

 

I used to read her essays. Most of the things she said were similar to those you just wrote, floridapad. Unfortunately, it seems she could not salvage her marriage or force herself to stay with her husband.

[floridapad]

Karnak,

 

Yes I do beleive that rewriting marriages happen because MANY couples who do end up reuniting after affairs and become happy ,reminisce on the stuff they said to there H or W about how they never loved them etc etc. I personally know two couples who went through the same thing and reunited in happy loving marriages. W had an affair, was NEVER in love with their H. Made BIG mistakes marrying the H. The OM is their soul mate. I was too young when I married my H. Never felt this way for my husband etc. etc. and now all of the sudden when you talk to them and remind them of the stuff they said they cringe and say " I was full of Sh*t". So yes I do beleive the professionals when they say people sometimes rewrite history and feelings.

 

BTW - I like your earlier post. The happiness does come from with in. It would just be nice if she found that out before she broke up the family. SHE may regret it.

[FeelingLonely98]

Don't believe in the "experts", floridapad. Back where I live, the country's perhaps most famous "couple therapist" (she's in her early 40's) just left a marriage of 19 years and two kids, for no apparent reason.

 

Yes, Karnak,

And at one time Bill Rodgers was one of the most fit men in America. A marathon champ. Still running marathons. Advocating a healthy exercise full lifestyle for Americans. He died of heart faliure. With your reasoning, his devotion was meaningless. We should all stop caring about our health. We are all doomed! Damn, why did I work out this morning.

An just because your one example of a couple's therapist had a failed marriage ... Well, you are smart enough to see how silly you look?

[karnak]

Well, in that case, true love wins in the end.

 

If one person really loves the husband or the wife, after the affair with the other person fizzles, they'll finally understand who they really love.

 

Of course, if they really never loved the person to begin with, they'll never reunite. People do make mistakes and stupid things.

[karnak]

Yes, Karnak,

And at one time Bill Rodgers was one of the most fit men in America. A marathon champ. Still running marathons. Advocating a healthy exercise full lifestyle for Americans. He died of heart faliure. With your reasoning, his devotion was meaningless. We should all stop caring about our health. We are all doomed! Damn, why did I work out this morning.

An just because your one example of a couple's therapist had a failed marriage ... Well, you are smart enough to see how silly you look?

 

Well, it just proves that, if you're meant to die, you'll die. With or without exercise.

 

But is he this Bill Rogers? Isn't he still alive?

[karnak]

Yes, Karnak,

An just because your one example of a couple's therapist had a failed marriage ... Well, you are smart enough to see how silly you look?

 

I gave the example of the therapist just to state that "experts" don't have miracle solutions for every problem.

 

Just as every man and woman is different, so every problem/case is different.

 

Unfortunately there isn't a magic formula to solve problems. Wish there was.

[ann09]

I don't have time at the moment to reply to all the posts that have added up in here the past 12 or so hours (busy with kids - tough time of night) - but I do want to say I have read them ALL and appreciate everyone taking the time for me. Blows me away to be honest with you.

I don't want anyone to think I am not reading or caring what you all wrote. I am amazed at the time y'all have taken here.

 

I will respond when I get the time. Tomorrow we are off to the mediator and my H is staying home the rest of the day so we can deal with all of this. I may not be back on for another day or so.

 

Thanks everyone.

[ann09]

This thread is getting weirder and weirder...

 

Ann, please read this: It is my sincere opinion on the subject.

 

From those posts of yours that I've read I could see that you seem to be an educated person, and you seem to have had a good upringing and a happy childhood.

 

I think you've already made up your mind and are advancing towards divorce. I know this situation of yours is not about your OM. It's about you. And your struggle to achieve happiness for yourself and the ones you love.

 

I know what the OM did to you. He helped you to discover feelings within you that you thought you never had or that you imagined were long since buried. You rediscovered the most beautiful part of your soul. I know this may sound like poetic crap, but it is not. I know because that same thing happened to me.

 

I fell in love with several women along my life. Yet, only one of them made me know true love (which is very different from lust or passion). A feeling I had never felt before and which I did not feel later. I finnally understood the inner beauty within myself and within most human beings. A beauty which, before, I considered to be non-existant. In fact, I was a very bitter man... I considered myself an evil person and thought that all the others were like me or worse.

 

These feelings are the best part of yourself, Ann. They were not created by the OM, but he probably helped you look within yourself. And it is these feelings that you must try to make flourish not only within yourself, but also within those around you.

 

If divorce is the only way for you to be happy, then divorce. If you continue to stay in an hunhappy marriage, you'll only grow bitter and grow resentment against your husband and your children. Later, as frustration grows, perhaps you'll start to hate your husband and your kids and see them as your jailers, rather than your family.

Who knows? Perhaps later you'll even begin to have affairs just to hurt your husband like so many married and frustrated women do.

 

Are you worried for the effects that divorce will have on your kids? Don't. Contrary to what most people on this thread say, divorce will not destroy your kid's brains or their soul. Society may.

 

I personally know many happily married couples (some, for more than 30 years) whose children are very unhappy and emotionally unstable people. Unlike their parents, their marriages or relationships are very unstable, fragile, violent and loveless. In fact, even if their parents married for love, their kids seem to never find it, regardless of how hard they look. In fact, some only care about money or sex, and don't give a crap about love.

 

I happen to have friends who are children of divorced parents. And I can confirm that they are very mature and stable persons. I'm talking of men and women who, despite the failure in their parents marriages, really believe in true love and respect between husband and wife. In fact, all of these friends of mine never cheated in any of his relationships (unlike some of the kids of "happily married couples"), and always respected his girlfriends. He's one of the most honest and serious people I know. He's now happily married and his wife gave birth to his first son a few days ago. And he told me recently that he really respects his wife and doesn't intend to destroy his marriage like his parents did. Why? Because he says he really loves his wife.

 

So, as you can see, divorce doesn't destroy the lives of children. A loveless upbringing, selfishness and resentment DO.

 

Ann, in case you're not so sure you want to advance to advance towards a divorce, you can try to take a "break" for some time.

 

Go live alone for a period. Or live with a friend or your parents. Try to "find" yourself and what you want to do with your life. Distance yourself from your husband and the OM. Tell your children you're going on a journey or something (or take them with you on your "mommy's vacation").

 

Who knows? Maybe all alone with yourself you'll start to realize your marriage can be saved and that you really love your husband. Or you'll finally decide you're better all alone by yourself. Try this aproach. I'm sure your husband will support you.

 

I can speak for myself that there's nothing live living alone for a time to really know who you are, your weaknesses and all the ghosts from the past who hinder your evolution.

 

That's all I had to write. Remember, Ann: this is just my opinion on things. It's subjective and based upon my life's experiences. Only you know how you feel. Only you may know what's best for you. If you think this is all rubbish, then it's ok.

 

If you took the time to read this, I thank you.

 

 

Wow. Thank you. A lot to digest and very insightful.

[happyrexmanningday]

[FONT=Georgia]Long-time lurker and BW here. First post because I felt compelled to respond. I'll have to post my story sometime but I've been following this thread with interest because even after counseling, I still have issues surrounding the question of whether or not a WS ever had feelings for their spouse.

 

Ann, my husband basically expressed the same things you are saying. He said he never had real "in love" feelings for me from the very start. In his case, he knew at an early age that there was something missing in him. He explained to me how he never had the innate desire to put the needs of someone else before his own. Not with his family, his friends or girlfriends. Ever. When he met me, he said he felt something akin to this but recognized that it still wasn't what he thought love was supposed to feel like. He was just happy to have felt "something" at all. And since we were extremely compatible, had good chemistry, etc. we married. Naturally, I was unaware of this inner struggle until 17 years later, when he met a married co-worker, got involved in an EA and fell in love. He at first thought it was a crush. We went through marital counseling. During that period, he revealed how he never placed me first above his needs and how he could do that for her even though the feeling was not reciprocated. She didn't want to be more than friends or leave her husband/marriage. But through the EA, he discovered he was capable of putting someone first at long last. He felt normal. And since that had never happened before, he knew this was love. Our reconciliation failed. Now, the rest of my story is similar to others here...He ultimately left, we're divorcing, etc.

 

But the thing is, this is the thought I wrangle with daily. He settled for me. Right? And if we had not been so extremely compatible, I would have discovered this much sooner. It just never happened. Isn't it strange to find out that the very thing that made your marriage seem strong was the weakest part? We laughed, did things together, had fun, planned for the future. I thought it was built on love and for me, it was.

 

So I have to say after almost a year and a half later, I'm still mulling this over. I think I've come to terms with the fact that in my case, it certainly is possible for someone to discover themselves or solidify a nagging life question through an affair. Not that I am one bit pleased he had one and chose this way to reveal everything. It's the worst experience I've ever faced.

 

But like other posters have stated, I have to agree you need to make this decision independent of the OM and do this for yourself. My husband didn't make that choice (he is hopeful he can change her mind) but I have a feeling he'll get to that life cross-road eventually. But while he's taking the detour route, crashing into mailboxes and skidding into ditches, you don't have to. In your case, you haven't left for the OM yet. Not that it makes it any easier because no matter what course you plot, there ain't gonna be a scenic view. It's an ugly drive from point A to point B. For you and all the passengers. But you have to begin this solo journey eventually. I wished my husband had done so sooner. I keep thinking I lost 17 years of my life although I know that's not entirely true. But it is time that I can't recapture. I think you've already made your decision and if you're sure you want to leave, then do it sooner rather than later.

 

[/FONT]

[FeelingLonely98]

Well, it just proves that, if you're meant to die, you'll die. With or without exercise.

 

But is he this Bill Rogers? Isn't he still alive?

 

OOPS - my bad. It was Jim Fixx. Same point though. (Sorry Bill - Hope you are alive and well!!!)

 

Jim wrote the book - "Complete Book of Running"!

[FeelingLonely98]

Tomorrow we are off to the mediator and my H is staying home the rest of the day so we can deal with all of this. I may not be back on for another day or so.

 

Good Luck Ann and H.

[eeyore1981]

Ann, I just started reading this thread late last night. I just skimmed over it, but what stuck out to me was your original post.

 

You alluded to feeling as close as you ever have to being raped. It is possible to be raped by your husband. You are not his property. Marriage does not give him the right to do you whenever the mood strikes him. Rape is not always about violence and having a weapon held to you.

 

Whether you take off with OM or go it alone, get out of this marriage. You don't need a man to make it, and you damn sure don't need a man like this. There are many, many good men out there in this world.

 

The reason you probably should not go straight into the OM's arms is because you do have some messed up thoughts about what relationships are, and if you were to be by yourself for a while, you could take that time to get a healthy attitude about what a good relationship is supposed to be, and have a better chance of saving yourself from going from one bad relationship straight into another. A good man is not going to just fall into your lap, you need the tools to recognize one when you see him.

[HarmonyHope]

I think you've already made up your mind and are advancing towards divorce. I know this situation of yours is not about your OM. It's about you. And your struggle to achieve happiness for yourself and the ones you love.

 

I know what the OM did to you. He helped you to discover feelings within you that you thought you never had or that you imagined were long since buried. You rediscovered the most beautiful part of your soul. I know this may sound like poetic crap, but it is not. I know because that same thing happened to me.

 

I fell in love with several women along my life. Yet, only one of them made me know true love (which is very different from lust or passion). A feeling I had never felt before and which I did not feel later. I finnally understood the inner beauty within myself and within most human beings. A beauty which, before, I considered to be non-existant. In fact, I was a very bitter man... I considered myself an evil person and thought that all the others were like me or worse.

 

These feelings are the best part of yourself, Ann. They were not created by the OM, but he probably helped you look within yourself. And it is these feelings that you must try to make flourish not only within yourself, but also within those around you.

 

Excellent post karnak!

 

I would also like to add one other thought - Consider for a moment the example you set for the kids. Would you want your kids to feel like they have to stay in an unhappy M because you did? Do you want to put that pressure on them? My kids mean the world to me and i would never want them to suffer.

[lostsoulmate]

... My kids mean the world to me and i would never want them to suffer.

 

Or teach them that living in a loveless relationship is OK.

[floridapad]

or teach them that running away with an OM in the picture and committing adultery is wrong.

 

Ann - I'm sorry if I did not pick this up in any of your posts but did you ever do intensive MC and IC or just IC? Just curious. Obviously the marriage is over but hopefully IC is in your future.

 

BTW lostsoulmate. It was not a loveless marriage. Ann herself said she loved him and he loved her. It was just not the romantic kind of love. the "in love" feeling. The reason I clarify this is because my 13 year old daughter and 10 year old son are REALLY confused how mom could just seperate when she told them herself she loved me and they saw us laugh and hug (yes argue sometimes particularly after discovery of the affair). She has been having a VERY difficult time explaining to them that she is not "in love". They are really confused. They don't see the loveless marriage that my wife says. Not sure what kind of message that will send them in the future. Funny thing also is my wife and I had an emotional moment a few weeks ago (we are seperated still) and hugged for a long time. My son saw this and started crying. When my W went in to ask what was wrong he said "It reminded me of the old days". Now that is confusing to a child. I guess he didn't see it as a loveless marriage.

Edited December 3, 2009 by floridapad

[lostsoulmate]

or teach them that running away with an OM in the picture and committing adultery is wrong.

 

Ann - I'm sorry if I did not pick this up in any of your posts but did you ever do intensive MC and IC or just IC? Just curious. Obviously the marriage is over but hopefully IC is in your future.

 

BTW lostsoulmate. It was not a loveless marriage. Ann herself said she loved him and he loved her. It was just not the romantic kind of love. the "in love" feeling. The reason I clarify this is because my 13 year old daughter and 10 year old son are REALLY confused how mom could just seperate when she told them herself she loved me and they saw us laugh and hug (yes argue sometimes particularly after discovery of the affair). She has been having a VERY difficult time explaining to them that she is not "in love". They are really confused. They don't see the loveless marriage that my wife says. Not sure what kind of message that will send them in the future. Funny thing also is my wife and I had an emotional moment a few weeks ago (we are seperated still) and hugged for a long time. My son saw this and started crying. When my W went in to ask what was wrong he said "It reminded me of the old days". Now that is confusing to a child. I guess he didn't see it as a loveless marriage.

 

Taken from OP first post...

"After I had my daughter 7 yrs ago and we decided we were done having kids I started looking in the mirror. Here I was in this loveless marriage. Realizing my husband and I had nothing to talk about except the kids."

 

 

They were her words not mine. Also FP you keep comparing your situation to hers... every situation is different.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Why didnt she leave then if she was so unhappy, why have more kids, have an affair, re-write her marriage. Marriages do not fix themselves, it IS HARD WORK! But she never did go see any councilors. Never figured out what was wrong with her, why her feelings are so outta wack.

 

At the end of the day, she'll be with the OM, that she left her marriage for bottom line.

[karnak]

Last winter I decided to go to therapy. He believed we didn't need couples therapy. There was something wrong with me and not him. I needed help - not us. I went. And loved it (still do). I learned so much about myself. The massive guilt over what I have done came out. I started to rebuild myself from the inside. All along still loving this other man. I couldn't breathe without him. Never out of my thoughts. Never wanted him to be. When you meet the right one, how are you supposed to forget them?

 

He agreed to marriage counseling. But pulled a few tricks on me - one where he was supposed to meet me at counseling but then cancelled it - took me to lunch instead - bought a bottle of wine and said "we don't need counseling". Um. Really?

 

Eventually counseling happens. I am painfully honest. It's the worst thing I have ever had to do. Hurting this man who has given me a beautiful life. This man who works his tail off to support his family. All therapy did was open up so much and hurt him so much. It was draining. I went to my parents and told them everything. They were shocked, dismayed, disappointed.

 

QUOTE]

 

It seems she did tried marriage counseling.

[floridapad]

Marriage is hard work but going to MC when you are having visions/feelings etc of fantasy man from the affair makes MC pointless. I'm glad she went to individual counseling and hope she continues. I know you all disagree with me but when the divorce is complete I still think she needs to persue the OM. She needs to see for herself that Fantasy man is just a man and that these magical feelings she had are very real but a bit supercharged from a very unrealistic situation. Affairs have SO much more going on inside them besides... "love" (cough) that can result in euphoric feelings. Perhaps she needs to explore this now or she will be chasing this "feeling" in the real world for the rest of her life. Just a thought.

[ann09]

Why didnt she leave then if she was so unhappy, why have more kids, have an affair, re-write her marriage. Marriages do not fix themselves, it IS HARD WORK! But she never did go see any councilors. Never figured out what was wrong with her, why her feelings are so outta wack.

 

At the end of the day, she'll be with the OM, that she left her marriage for bottom line.

 

 

I respect your opinion as you seem like a very intelligent person - and for some reason, your posts stand out among others to me. But please really read my posts too. We have gone through extensive marriage counseling and I have been going to my own therapist as well. I have taken this very seriously and have exhausted all options.

[ann09]

Marriage is hard work but going to MC when you are having visions/feelings etc of fantasy man from the affair makes MC pointless. I'm glad she went to individual counseling and hope she continues. I know you all disagree with me but when the divorce is complete I still think she needs to persue the OM. She needs to see for herself that Fantasy man is just a man and that these magical feelings she had are very real but a bit supercharged from a very unrealistic situation. Affairs have SO much more going on inside them besides... "love" (cough) that can result in euphoric feelings. Perhaps she needs to explore this now or she will be chasing this "feeling" in the real world for the rest of her life. Just a thought.

 

 

I absolutely agree with you - and if I was hearing my story I would be saying the same exact things. I can't come here and declare that my affair is any different from anyone else's. Last night I caught myself calling Tiger Woods a scumbag. Hmmm...how am I any different?? I'm not. I'm just as horrible in my mind. But I will tell you this - I do love this man with all my heart - it's not a sex filled crazy infatuation love struck affair. From the moment we met - and talked - for hours upon hours - I just knew. I had a feeling deep inside my heart that all of a sudden said, "this is right". As wrong as it was to persue it - and I would have done everything different if I could go back in time - there was this feeling that told me this was it. It wasn't a heady "in love" oh my god crushy feeling (although I had that too) but more of a "this is the guy you waited for all your life".

 

ok - I know this is only going to cause more of an uproar here. Aren't you guys tired of me?? I know I am. I am more than likely going to end up alone - for reasons I can't get into right now. I am sure I will lead a loveless life as I know I will never persue another man. But I will put all of my focus on my kids and be the best mother I can be. Maybe I was meant to see love and know what it's like - even for that short amount of time - and that is it. Maybe I should just cherish that and feel happy I at least got to feel it. Maybe my punishment is that I will be alone for the rest of my life. I am not sure - as my therapist told me last night - this story will play out and only time will tell.

 

Again, I really want to reply to each individual post in here as everyone took so much time out to write. Just so much to think about as I read them.

[karnak]

I am more than likely going to end up alone - for reasons I can't get into right now. I am sure I will lead a loveless life as I know I will never persue another man. But I will put all of my focus on my kids and be the best mother I can be. Maybe I was meant to see love and know what it's like - even for that short amount of time - and that is it. Maybe I should just cherish that and feel happy I at least got to feel it. Maybe my punishment is that I will be alone for the rest of my life.QUOTE]

 

Don't say stupid things. You don't know how your future will be like. No-one knows.

 

Many people on this thread are arguing that they're miserable and want their wives and husbands back. Who knows how they'll be like in a year or two?

 

I knew people who claimed their life had ended after the divorce. Fast-forward one year guess what? They already have a new girl/man and don't care about the first person.