trippi1432 Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 Thanks Gunny, thats good advice for everyone going through this. My financial house is pretty much in order though. To be honest she didn't beat me up too bad on that end she took what she was entitled to and left me in OK shape. She really didn't want much but to get me out of her life as fast as possible. My only debt is my house, I have a pretty decent retirement fund started and while rearranged and cut back, the bills always get paid. Once I sell the Jeep I rebuilt for her, I might even be able to have a little fun! I just feel emotionaly bankrupt sometimes. Thats just the way it plays out. Going through a time like this in your life, you realize who your friends really are and I came to find out I didn't have to many, guess thats why I spend so much time here. My moms great words of comfort when I told her i was getting divorced...."That sucks, can you look at my car?" Haven't talked about it since. The wife, college professor, in order to understand her world, I had to study, I read her books, looked at her presentations, hell I could probably teach her course! Just in order to relate. The fight that lead to bomb drop, was me wanting to take her out for the day! Didn't care where, just wanted some time with the misses on my day off. While I invested myself in her, she was invested in everyone but me, I never once came first, Iwas a shadow and when I wanted to be heard she left and I can never go back to that. Thing I'm worried about is. What do I do to bring behavior like this on? It wasn't just her. I come to see that most of the people around me just have their hand out. Makes me distrustful of people in general. I hate feeling like that. TOJAZ Tojaz, Introspection is a part of the healing process, but I don't think that you should be looking to blame yourself for being the good person that you are. My STBX hated the fact that I was in school, never took the interest that you took in your wife's studies, that's admirable to me because you were looking to find a way to keep that connection with her. Trust is a hard thing to find and sometimes a hard thing to give...and I think that everyone here would agree that, once burned, it's scary to put your heart back out there.....but.....yeah, sometimes it is worth the risk tho. As you have stated before, that's where you have to wonder about the missed opportunities. Sometimes in life, people look for too much validation and approval when they should be looking at the love they are giving as well as receiving. How do you measure giving too much? How do you measure receiving very little in return? If someone asked my STBX how our relationship was, he would probably say that he gave and gave, by his measure.....by mine, what he was giving wasn't the man I deserved. He was giving everyone else his best, and I wound up with the worst more often than not...at least by my measure. Like ACL states in her post, trust is hard, but don't lump everyone into the same bucket....You might miss the ones that don't have their hand out, and for the ones that do, you will learn to recognize that and steer clear.
RedDevil66 Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 This is what I think; she knew you were going to be there for her. The relationship was not a challenge anymore. She is obviously a go-getter and needs to be constantly challenged. Detach from her, Don't be there for her when she needs you and live your life, She'll be back when she realizes there are SO FEW good men out there. Meh, by then some awesome women is going to snatch you up anyway
MrMayI Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 t, you have gained so much through your experience. it makes me proud to read your posts. you're doing incredible introspective work, and finding yourself in a new light. you're a stand up guy, and sometimes people will always be in "need" when around you, because they know you'll do anything in your power for those you love. it's noble, and it's commendable. not to mention the above post is definitely something you should research further.
Author tojaz Posted November 17, 2009 Author Posted November 17, 2009 Thanks everyone. Not riding the pity train or anything, to be completely honest, I'm enjoying this thread. Kind of a mind dump but exploring some of the way I work, even if i don't like all that i see. I see that I do seem to encourage certain behaviors in people, but i also realize that the capability for that behavior has to already exist. I didn't make it, but I do feed it sometimes. Allow it to grow. Imagine you work with someone named Phil, but you think his name is Chuck, so you call him that. He knows your talking to him so he dosen't speak up, just answers to Chuck to get through the day and get his work done. Then one day he decides hes had enough and screams dammit my names PHIL!! Whos to blame? He never corrected you, just did what he thought was best, and you didn't know. Yet Phil looks like a raving lunatic screaming at the top of his lungs because hes finaly had enough of being called Chuck! Doubt anybody followed that but the thing I'm wrestling with is, that I gave and give in my relationships. I like that about myself and plan to continue. Every once in awhile everyone wants some validation, or some care of their own. It is only natural, but as people become accustomed to constantly being catered to, when the roles are reversed, when the giver needs, they will seem selfish, or manipulative or aggressive. Because there was no balance. The more those needs are pushed aside in favor of doing for others the more resentment grows and the more the people surrounding you come to expect it. When you finally have enough and decide to voice your own desires it is so out of context that it feels alien even to you. Thats how I felt. I actually felt guilty for wanting things for myself and she wanted that. Maybe not conciously, but my wanting things in my life became selfish and irresponsible in her eyes, or i was pushing too hard or moving too fast. In fact I just wanted to be heard. TOJAZ
Author tojaz Posted November 17, 2009 Author Posted November 17, 2009 t, you have gained so much through your experience. it makes me proud to read your posts. you're doing incredible introspective work, and finding yourself in a new light. you're a stand up guy, and sometimes people will always be in "need" when around you, because they know you'll do anything in your power for those you love. it's noble, and it's commendable. Thanks MayI I really like the way you put that. never really thought of it like that before. Just goes to show that you help me just as much as i help you. not to mention the above post is definitely something you should research further. Your telling me! TOJAZ
Author tojaz Posted November 17, 2009 Author Posted November 17, 2009 I'm first in line!!! Broken, first of all :bunny::bunny::bunny: talk about a boost to the self esteem You are so far out of my league it isn't even funny, but if you ever decide to settle, you have my number. TOJAZ
Gunny376 Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 Fella was talking to his Baptist preacher one day as the meet on the street. He told him ~ "You know preacher! There's not but two people in this world that I trust! That's you and the Good Lord Jesus! Trouble is? I've got my doubts about you!" I understand that your X was a degreed college professional (that you financed through your sweat and labor) ~ but its a fool of a person that doesn't take into consideration "Joe The Plumber" point of view and perspective. Look where the so called "experts" have gotten us? The Ivy League MBA's on Wall Street. I went to college and what it got me was a job that I could have gotten wihtout having gone to college. When someone with a college degree speaks I "yawn" When someone like you speak? I listen very carefully to what I'm being told. The problem with this country is "over-educated" idiots, without paying enough attention to the people that make this country "run" everyday! People like you Bro!
trippi1432 Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 Fella was talking to his Baptist preacher one day as the meet on the street. He told him ~ "You know preacher! There's not but two people in this world that I trust! That's you and the Good Lord Jesus! Trouble is? I've got my doubts about you!" I understand that your X was a degreed college professional (that you financed through your sweat and labor) ~ but its a fool of a person that doesn't take into consideration "Joe The Plumber" point of view and perspective. Look where the so called "experts" have gotten us? The Ivy League MBA's on Wall Street. I went to college and what it got me was a job that I could have gotten wihtout having gone to college. When someone with a college degree speaks I "yawn" When someone like you speak? I listen very carefully to what I'm being told. The problem with this country is "over-educated" idiots, without paying enough attention to the people that make this country "run" everyday! People like you Bro! I have to agree with you here on this Gunny, there is a big difference between "book sense" and "common sense". The person with common sense is a survivor. I know that first hand having been on my own since I was 16, you learn common sense the hard way. The person with book sense and no common sense only knows how to do things "by the book", never taking common sense into consideration.
broken hearted Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 Tojaz-I am being totally honest when I say this...I had a dream about you last night. I have been having several dreams a night about my husband for the past week or 2 and last night was the first night I didn't dream about him. Somehow you made it into my dreams. It was you in the dream but you didn't look like your pictures, you were dressed up in a tux and had glasses...it was bizarre!
trippi1432 Posted November 17, 2009 Posted November 17, 2009 Tojaz-I am being totally honest when I say this...I had a dream about you last night. I have been having several dreams a night about my husband for the past week or 2 and last night was the first night I didn't dream about him. Somehow you made it into my dreams. It was you in the dream but you didn't look like your pictures, you were dressed up in a tux and had glasses...it was bizarre! LOL!! Dreams about Tojaz now....see, he is out stealing all the women's hearts.
Author tojaz Posted November 19, 2009 Author Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) I have to agree with you here on this Gunny, there is a big difference between "book sense" and "common sense". The person with common sense is a survivor. I know that first hand having been on my own since I was 16, you learn common sense the hard way. The person with book sense and no common sense only knows how to do things "by the book", never taking common sense into consideration. When someone with a college degree speaks I "yawn" When someone like you speak? I listen very carefully to what I'm being told. The problem with this country is "over-educated" idiots, without paying enough attention to the people that make this country "run" everyday! People like you Bro! Ahhh, good to be home. Been out of town for a couple of days and missed LS, LOL yeah I'm addicted. I agree with that Gunny, although i don't feel i deserve the compliment, just another poor soul here pouring his guts out. Ah yes, the over educated masses. gets to a point where folks think they deserve your respect and attention just because they have better letters after their name. Always hated people like that. People earn respect with their actions and results, not with fancy titles and diplomas. I don't care where you went to school if you can't run your own life. TOJAZ Edited November 19, 2009 by tojaz
curiou Posted November 19, 2009 Posted November 19, 2009 Funny, I would call the under-educated the masses. whoever speaks, if he or she can make the point with logic, clarity, and evidence-based proof, I tend to listen, with or without a degree. That's just me.
Author tojaz Posted November 19, 2009 Author Posted November 19, 2009 Tojaz-I am being totally honest when I say this...I had a dream about you last night. I have been having several dreams a night about my husband for the past week or 2 and last night was the first night I didn't dream about him. Somehow you made it into my dreams. It was you in the dream but you didn't look like your pictures, you were dressed up in a tux and had glasses...it was bizarre! :confused: (folks, I think broken needs to borrow money! LOL) I don't think I believe that for a second, still going to tell all my friends a beautiful girl is dreaming about me though.:D The scary part is, I DO WEAR GLASSES MOST OF THE TIME! Just not in most of my pictures i don't think. What a very twilight zone moment! Wonder whats up with the tux? TOJAZ
Author tojaz Posted November 19, 2009 Author Posted November 19, 2009 Funny, I would call the under-educated the masses. whoever speaks, if he or she can make the point with logic, clarity, and evidence-based proof, I tend to listen, with or without a degree. That's just me. Agree totally. Nothing against well educated people, I know many. It's the folks that define themselves by the fact they have a degree rather then what they have chosen to do with it. TOJAZ
Author tojaz Posted November 19, 2009 Author Posted November 19, 2009 I think I've got it now..... Tojaz-I am being totally honest when I say this...I had a dream about you last night. I have been having several dreams a night about my husband for the past week or 2 and last night was the first night I didn't dream about him. Somehow you made it into my dreams. It was you in the dream but you didn't look like your pictures, you were dressed up in a tux and had glasses and were 30 pounds lighter and looked sounded and acted just like Brad Pitt, but it was you I swear!!...it was bizarre! ....thats got to be it.
broken hearted Posted November 19, 2009 Posted November 19, 2009 Haha, yeah and I looked like Angelina in the dream too!!! That's it!!
El Ben Posted November 19, 2009 Posted November 19, 2009 Wow. Just wow. This thread is amazing. Especially Angelina Jolie
Author tojaz Posted November 20, 2009 Author Posted November 20, 2009 Haha, yeah and I looked like Angelina in the dream too!!! That's it!! I hope not, that would be taking a step down.
Kic Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Maybe I am late to this thread, as it has somewhat steered into education (I have a degree, please don't think less of me ). My perspective on this is that gratitude will only go so far. Surely, you have told this woman that you have sacrificed your time and career potential for her so that she is not ignorant of it, but as we can see her appreciation will fade. I have been in your shoes, my friend. Also, as the years passed, this woman's social circle has changed. Her peers have changed. A young woman may have hung out with old high school friends in her twenties, but in her professional age she collaborates with fellow scholars and writers. People sometimes do change, and drastically so. Perhaps she has becomes more like her new peers, with all of their new tastes and points of views. I suspect that you did not change in the same way - your peers and friends are not similar to hers, perhaps are not even the same social "level" - if you have many friends at all (you had complained about this). So the primary issues that I sense you are dealing with are: 1. Lack of gratitude 2. You two have grown apart (are not the same people as when you first met) If there were ever a shot at a second chance, these two primary issues would need to be addressed. Her saying that you are materialistic, etc. are likely just excuses and not really the driving issues.
trippi1432 Posted November 21, 2009 Posted November 21, 2009 Maybe I am late to this thread, as it has somewhat steered into education (I have a degree, please don't think less of me ). My perspective on this is that gratitude will only go so far. Surely, you have told this woman that you have sacrificed your time and career potential for her so that she is not ignorant of it, but as we can see her appreciation will fade. I have been in your shoes, my friend. Also, as the years passed, this woman's social circle has changed. Her peers have changed. A young woman may have hung out with old high school friends in her twenties, but in her professional age she collaborates with fellow scholars and writers. People sometimes do change, and drastically so. Perhaps she has becomes more like her new peers, with all of their new tastes and points of views. I suspect that you did not change in the same way - your peers and friends are not similar to hers, perhaps are not even the same social "level" - if you have many friends at all (you had complained about this). So the primary issues that I sense you are dealing with are: 1. Lack of gratitude 2. You two have grown apart (are not the same people as when you first met) If there were ever a shot at a second chance, these two primary issues would need to be addressed. Her saying that you are materialistic, etc. are likely just excuses and not really the driving issues. Hi Kic, You bring up a good point on the education theory.....been there, done that. In all honesty, I am more proud of my Associates Degree than I am any of my other degrees. Why? Because I quit 3 jobs to go to one job and go to school for my daughter, to give us a better future. I drove an hour (one-way) to go to college and then went to work a 9 hour job five days a week. Typically I got a half day with my daughter four days a week between work and school. I did all of this in time to graduate before she started Kindergarten. Her father, no where to be seen for 7 years, if it hadn't been for my parents, I don't know how I could have done it. My STBX held it against me that years later, while getting my BA, I helped my friend....a single parent with 2 young girls....get her BA by driving 45 minutes 3 nights a week to watch her kids while she went to school. She had no family in our town and I became her only family. Why? Because it was Karma, my family helped me by being the village to help raise a child and I became her "village". Life and Love is not what you put getting a degree, but what you put into while getting there and the reasons you did it for. I've said it before and will say it again, Tojaz supported his wife by at least trying to understand what she was doing....tried to identify with what she was doing....and I humbly agree....she showed a lack of gratitude for that.
Author tojaz Posted November 21, 2009 Author Posted November 21, 2009 Maybe I am late to this thread, as it has somewhat steered into education (I have a degree, please don't think less of me ). My perspective on this is that gratitude will only go so far. Surely, you have told this woman that you have sacrificed your time and career potential for her so that she is not ignorant of it, but as we can see her appreciation will fade. I have been in your shoes, my friend. No, I did not tell her most of what I sacraficed, because i did not do these things for gratitude (see title), or for what i thought i could gain from it. If thats the way it comes off then i am sorry to all who are reading this. The feelings in my OP were kept to myself in order to allow her to be happy. She knows some but in the scheme of things very little of what it cost to build our life together. I intend to keep it that way. TOJAZ
Gunny376 Posted November 21, 2009 Posted November 21, 2009 (edited) Not to get too complicated? But once while in the Marines we had to move a piece of equipment underneath a train trestle. We lacked a half inch clearance? The college educated idiots of engineers went to work, with this proposal and that. Calculatingly this and that with their graphic calculators doing algebra, calculus, etc? Finally a Marine Lance Corporal from West Virgina up and said ~ While spitting tobacco juice~ "Why don't we let a half of an inch of air out the tires of the truck?" Edited November 21, 2009 by Gunny376
Gunny376 Posted November 21, 2009 Posted November 21, 2009 No, I did not tell her most of what I sacraficed, because i did not do these things for gratitude (see title), or for what i thought i could gain from it. If thats the way it comes off then i am sorry to all who are reading this. The feelings in my OP were kept to myself in order to allow her to be happy. She knows some but in the scheme of things very little of what it cost to build our life together. I intend to keep it that way. TOJAZ You my Man would have a great Marine! Why? Because you put others before yourself! In short! You give a good GD about others! I enlisted in the Corps to serve my patrotic chore! I felt I owed those that had gone before me! And that I owed those that would come after me! You make me proud that I choose to do so! Past the tourch! Let Freedom ring!
LisaUk Posted November 21, 2009 Posted November 21, 2009 Tojaz, she didn't appreciate you, she just didn't know how lucky she was. I feel lucky to have just "met" you on this forum, you have a caring heart that shows through your posts and the help, comfort and advice that you give to others, how your ex wife was unable to see this, I will never know. Don't ever change yourself Tojaz, don't ever stop giving b/c you worry you expect too much, that is a wonderful quality to have and one of the many you possess that make you the great man you are. Lisa PS I like the Waterhouse avatar.
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