Lizzie60 Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 How friggin sad that you keeping flogging this theory and cackling at these poor sad males who are screwed and it is all over for them and they refuse to read the writing on the wall.... Hey congrats you have mem11363 on your side and he of all people, though he of all people does have sex, but seems to do as much if not more grovelling then many to get it..... What??? I'm just trying to make you (poor sad males) see that there is no hope for desire anymore.. what's so hard to understand.. just live with this reality.. Do you honestly think that if your W would desire you, she would go on for weeks without sex.. she would want it more often.. trust me... she would.. Just think for one moment that if she was with a 'brand new' man.. she would jump his bones.. trust me on that one... The W are just bored sexually... it has nothing to do with 'love'.. they love you but just not in a sexual way.. simple as that.. men just don't want to hear that.. and that's the pathetically sad part of it..
boldjack Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 OP, Lizzie's world is Lizzie's world. It usually doesn't have any real relationship with the real world, just in HER mind. People remain in love, in LTR'S, all of the time. People have passion for each other, in LTR's , all of the time. People bond, in LTR's , all of the time. Just because Lizzie is unwilling or unable to commit, does not mean that it isn't possible. There are all kinds of forums, polls and self-help literature out there. You can find validation for any belief or fetish or point of view. Nobody, not me not you and certainly not Lizzie has all of the answers. Hell, most people don't even know the questions. Your best bet is to try to communicate. If the two of you can have an honest dialogue, you will be able to sort most of your problems out, one way or another.
mem11363 Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 Wife and I had this exchange. Me - how often would be the point where you would say - that is fine I would not complain at that frequency? Her - 2 times a month - if we did it twice a month I would not complain Me - what frequency would you say - hey this is bullshi.. that is not enough Her - less then once a month - if we did it once a month I wouldn't make a huge conflict out of it - I might not like it but I would tolerate it None of this surprised me. This is what she added to that. She said she does still find me attractive - said this marriage would not work if she was turned off by me. Said she understands that at 2 to 3 times a month I would simply be unhappy and that not making the effort to please me would be wrong since I make so much effort to please her. So this is what I plan to ask her. Since we connect 8-10 times a month - what I want to know is how often you are really bummed out that we are doing it? How often do you feel stressed/obligated to do it? By the way I think the answer is almost never. When she is stressed she is a very very difficult person to be around. So I think she is neutral to start on the nights we do it and she goes from neutral to turned on as events progress. I will ask her that soon. I am curious about it - thing is pretty I am sure she will tell me the truth. So Lizzie this is my theory. Huge difference between low libido and sexual aversion. I think - maybe wrong - but I think wife is low libido. She is definitely not sexually averse. And I do agree that sexual aversion is not workable. But if you are just low libido with someone you really love - you can make the effort to make it work - I know this to be true because she does. TDP - As for whether or not I grovel. I don't think I do. I freely admit that she is more dominant in the marriage. I mostly accommodate her wishes and do so happily. It is also true that when I feel strongly about something I speak my mind. I am not timid about it - I assert myself. If I think she is completely in the wrong I am forceful calm - then forceful annoyed and ultimately full blown raging bull. If that doesn't work I do indifference and silent treatment until we resolve. And my batting average in those situations is very high. What??? I'm just trying to make you (poor sad males) see that there is no hope for desire anymore.. what's so hard to understand.. just live with this reality.. Do you honestly think that if your W would desire you, she would go on for weeks without sex.. she would want it more often.. trust me... she would.. Just think for one moment that if she was with a 'brand new' man.. she would jump his bones.. trust me on that one... The W are just bored sexually... it has nothing to do with 'love'.. they love you but just not in a sexual way.. simple as that.. men just don't want to hear that.. and that's the pathetically sad part of it..
boldjack Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 Op, many women have fluctuations in levels of libido, these can be due to almost anything from stress to hormone imbalances. Before you chuck the M onto the fire, I would communicate my concern, and both of you discuss what other causes might be a factor.
Lizzie60 Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 So Lizzie this is my theory. Huge difference between low libido and sexual aversion. I think - maybe wrong - but I think wife is low libido. She is definitely not sexually averse. And I do agree that sexual aversion is not workable. But if you are just low libido with someone you really love - you can make the effort to make it work - I know this to be true because she does. I agree that low libido and sexual aversion are two different things.. BUT.. there's a very very fine line.. IMO When a women has a low libido.. but tolerate the sex with her H.. if he pushes it a bit .. she might become sexually averse.. that's what happen sometimes.. the pressure of sex makes it a 'chore' in the long run. I thought for a while that I had low libido.. but when I became single and had sex with new partners.. it became very clear that it wasn't my libido.. it was my partner.. I was 'bored' to death... there was absolutely no more passion on MY side.. but sex became part of my life.. and I was 'wild' (still am) because of the 'variety'...
Lizzie60 Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 I was thinking about this post.. and I should add.. that for most women, who have been with the same man for a long time.. it's not sexual aversion.. I wouldn't go that far.. because they will have sex once or twice a month.. it is more like a 'chore' .. like going to a baseball game (when she hates baseball)... just to please him... it's not THAT bad.. but it's still feel like a 'chore'...
mem11363 Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 I do think part of the magic is that my goal is not to "get as much sex as I can" from wifey. So maybe she is "willing" 4-5 nights in a given week. No way would I take her up on every night she is willing. That is the path to burnout. The protocol - yes - this is like embassy rules of engagement - is she offers every night that she does not have a compelling reason not to. And I banter with her and decline other then my 2 nights a week. If she actually "wants to" - which - deep sigh - I admit is typically in the 2-3 times a month - I always say yes. But if I started saying yes every night she offered I think that would ruin the happy relaxed pattern we have. And - deeper sigh - we would get bored - well she would - except she frequently does little things differently. And I am always game so that helps. And being a little rough and a little unpredictable likely helps also even though it did not come naturally for me to do that. I do think some women get bored easier then others - I am just luckily with someone isn't so easily bored. I was thinking about this post.. and I should add.. that for most women, who have been with the same man for a long time.. it's not sexual aversion.. I wouldn't go that far.. because they will have sex once or twice a month.. it is more like a 'chore' .. like going to a baseball game (when she hates baseball)... just to please him... it's not THAT bad.. but it's still feel like a 'chore'...
boldjack Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 I also think that one of the main reasons that people lose their passion, is that there was not that much, to begin with, and this goes back to the reasons why they married in the first place. If you are totally smitten by your partner, and the feelings are reciprocated, then the chances are good the passion will continue. If you married for any other reason,pregnancy, social status, etc, then you might have problems.
Skump Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) My wife told me she no longer loves me after 22 years of marrage. I really love her, never cheeted or abused her. We have two beautiful children, growing up quick. We became very stale in our relationship about 2 years ago and has been heading south. We just started councling by my request, but she really does not want to go. but she is, she swears there is no one else,I think I belive her. Can someone fall back in love with you again, after telling you she has no feelings for you. I am not hard on the eyes and am in great shape. I make a good living and great provider. I dont want to lose my family:rolleyes: A few thoughts: In a sense, a successful marriage must be run like a business: it requires constant maintenance and (emotional) investment to survive. Since you've said that your marriage has become "stale," I'm guessing that you've both stopped doing the sorts of things that keep relationships vital. For instance, my mother and father have been married for 30 years and every single morning my father tells my mother that he loves her, first thing, when he wakes up. The cumulative impact of such demonstrations of affection is enormous. If you're just cohabiting, well, yeah that's pretty much a death sentence for any relationship. With that said... Women find it a lot easier to love men whom they value. Does your wife really appreciate you? I ask this question because there is a tactic you could try if a divorce or lifeless marriage seems inevitable. This is basically relationship shock therapy. Here goes. The next time your wife tells you that she doesn't love you, do the following, immediately: Go and get her suit cases, and put them on your bed. Begin filling the suit cases with her clothing. She'll start going into hysterics. Ignore her. Speak calmly and show no emotion: Tell your wife that you've been a reliable partner and provider for 22 years, and that you have every expectation of being loved in return for your efforts. By now she'll probably be going batsh*t. Continue filling the suit cases. Tell her that although you love her, you will not spend the rest of your life in a loveless marriage. Note that there are many thousands of available women who would be more than happy to marry a good looking and successful man like you. Plop the cases down in front of her. Give her an ultimatum: Either she will help to restore your union, or leave. Demand an answer immediately. Edit: Oh, I forgot the last, optional step. Bonus points if you can bring her to a point of such utter catharsis that you can have wild sex with her after this calamitous confrontation. Double bonus points if you rip her shirt in half before you make love. Rawr. Edited November 9, 2009 by Skump
mem11363 Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 Truly perfect. Like your father I envelope my wife in love. She feels safe and totally desired. But like anyone sometimes she is naughty. And then I need to threaten a little trip to spankyland. And during sex - sometimes we go there. I think part of feeling safe is knowing who is boss - at least in bed. A few thoughts: In a sense, a successful marriage must be run like a business: it requires constant maintenance and (emotional) investment to survive. Since you've said that your marriage has become "stale," I'm guessing that you've both stopped doing the sorts of things that keep relationships vital. For instance, my mother and father have been married for 30 years and every single morning my father tells my mother that he loves her, first thing, when he wakes up. The cumulative impact of such demonstrations of affection is enormous. If you're just cohabiting, well, yeah that's pretty much a death sentence for any relationship. With that said... Women find it a lot easier to love men whom they value. Does your wife really appreciate you? I ask this question because there is a tactic you could try if a divorce or lifeless marriage seems inevitable. This is basically relationship shock therapy. Here goes. The next time your wife tells you that she doesn't love you, do the following, immediately: Go and get her suit cases, and put them on your bed. Begin filling the suit cases with her clothing. She'll start going into hysterics. Ignore her. Speak calmly and show no emotion: Tell your wife that you've been a reliable partner and provider for 22 years, and that you have every expectation of being loved in return for your efforts. By now she'll probably be going batsh*t. Continue filling the suit cases. Tell her that although you love her, you will not spend the rest of your life in a loveless marriage. Note that there are many thousands of available women who would be more than happy to marry a good looking and successful man like you. Plop the cases down in front of her. Give her an ultimatum: Either she will help to restore your union, or leave. Demand an answer immediately. Edit: Oh, I forgot the last, optional step. Bonus points if you can bring her to a point of such utter catharsis that you can have wild sex with her after this calamitous confrontation. Double bonus points if you rip her shirt in half before you make love. Rawr.
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