Makes no sense to me

[offset_man]

Hello Delirious -I didn't want to get into the "God" issue with Bent, since I have great respect for anyone who finds solace in religion. I did view her comments to me as "fire and brimstone (I have listened to many sermons like that in my life from fundamentalists) and not I am afraid very helpful. I did come here for some advice and guidance and for the most part have found the posts unselfish and non judgemental. There was a time during the summer months when I was so depressed I didn't think I would ever come out of it. I was fighting with my wife, a very big business deal went south, and I was living through the loss of my love -who by th wy would cry to me (serious tears) that I was the one that was going to break her heart and she was not going to allow that to happen. I guess she didn't.

[offset_man]

Actually the friend has never met the other guy. I believe she is sincerely concerned about her.

[tami-chan]

Hi offset_man! sorry to hear about your weekend....but there many things to be thankful for in hindsight, you DO know that, right? At least you are not with this, obviously, "issues-packed" xOW. Like any loss, you will be going through stages. I am not a therapist, but maybe you should read up on the stages of grieving...or maybe one of the "resident" therapists here will read your story and respond...but here's hoping for better days ahead! good luck!

[offset_man]

Hello Tami -yes there are many things to be thankful for, and not having made a mistake with my xOW is a big one. Thanks for the advice on looking at the stages of grieving. I think I am grieved out now. Onwards!

[Virgo1982]

It seems you compare your W and the OW. How do you feel about your W? Do you stay with her until something "better" comes along or was this a one time thing for you? Does the outcome with the OW make you appreciate your W more or do you feel the same way toward her? Furthermore, how are things between you and your W since you and the OW split? Different? The same? Better?

[NoIDidn't]

I think the OP needs to go to IC to figure out why he keeps attracting and latching on to abusive women - his W and xOW.

 

And then blaming himself for what is clearly wrong with them.

 

My comment was ignored on the previous page because of the lack of use of either the Ignore Button or the ignore sensibility.

 

But it seems relevant in light of the newer posts from the OP. And I ask a few more questions:

 

1. How does one get into an affair with a woman that is already in one and wonder why she eventually blows you off too?

 

2. How did her decision of being in love with you mean that you had to enter an affair with her?

 

3. Is this how the OP ended up married in the first place?

 

The OP sounds too nice, unable to act on his own without someone else to direct him. Like a conflict avoider. Big time.

 

OP, how will you end this cycle? It seems everyone in your life takes for granted that you might have your own thoughts and feelings. Including the friend that seems to be more looking out for the xOW than for you.

[Lish]

I am a MM who had an intense lengthy affair with a MW. She ended it for reasons that were probably simpler than I thought 5 months ago. `Where is it going etc etc.`` Anyway, she got involved with another guy who was leaving his wife and he it would appear sold her on the fact that I was probably not a good long term bet. Thought she and I talked about getting married, neither of us was ready and therefore never really approached seriously the issue of moving out, finding a house, and all those other things.

 

She has refused any contact with me. In fact last time I had contact in mid August she said she had deleted every message I had sent without reading them and was `with her husband and she was trying to make it work`. She had, it sounded, decided to leave this other guy, who for many reasons, the biggest being he had been childless all his life, and she had two teen and preteen children.

 

Recently I spoke to her very close friend who said that, she had asked her not to tell me, but she was with the other guy, and not with her husband as she said to me. And they fought all the time, over me. They would break up and get back together. I gather it was quite tempestuous. Her friend asked her, `Do you miss him (me)`and she replied `yes`. Furthermore she has been spending so much time with this guy that he husband has apparently become suspicious. It also means she is spending less and less time with her children, who are at home (she`s a real estate agent, so can always come up with an excuse to ge out). This guy has apparently forbidden any contact with me whatsoever.

 

I no longer have the emotional need to see her, however I miss her and still am in love with her. That, as odd as it sounds, does no mean I am willing to up root my life, nor do I think she is a good mate (for reasons which I have not gone into here`. Her friend says I need to talk with her and has tried to encourage her to see me. She will not respond to a normal request for coffee, for example, so the only way I could get her to respond was to provide a little drama in my mail to her. I said I neeed to speak with her and it was very important. I also cannot betray the confidence of her friendso how I broach the topic is tricky. I do feel she is making a huge mistake that will have far reaching consequences to her and her children. The new man is insanely jealous and when she met him he was off on 3 months of health leave (for dpression). This can`t be good, yet she refuses to meet with me.

 

Yesterday she called me -the first time in 5 months and asked her what it was I wanted to say to her. I said I would not do it over the phone, nor would I do it in writing. She almost agree to meet me for a coffee but hung up after her sick child walked into the room. She still maintains she is with her husband and trying to make the marriage work. In fact she says she is leaving her blackberry out for him to see all messages to allay any ssupicions and I must stop sending her messages (I have sent very few). I believe that her husband became so suspcious that she had to reduce the amount of time with this new guy and is trying to buy her husbands trust before she resumes the affair once more.

 

I just don`t understand why she is so adamant about refusingto see me other than she is terrified this jerk is going to find out and she feels she would have to tell him. She misses`` me yet`when I try to reach out to her there is nothing but hostility against me, my previous loves, my wife and on and on and on. I just don`t get it. I`d love to see her again but I really am not interested in resuming an affair with her. But I genuinely fear for what she is doing.

 

Sorry for the rambling and always accept some thoughts and advice. I am sure I should just back off and stay away.

 

You mean like you should have in the first place?

 

Am I really the only person on this forum who has no sympathy for people who have affairs?

[offset_man]

No. In fact there are many of you.

[offset_man]

I guess I fell in love with her as well. It wasn't just that she fell in love with me. Funny isnt it that you truly believe all the stuff that is being said to you. "That I have never loved like this before. That I want to be with you all my life. That you are going to break my heart. That I will take you even if you are penniless."

[offset_man]

My comment was ignored on the previous page because of the lack of use of either the Ignore Button or the ignore sensibility.

 

But it seems relevant in light of the newer posts from the OP. And I ask a few more questions:

 

1. How does one get into an affair with a woman that is already in one and wonder why she eventually blows you off too?

 

It is easy -I did it.

 

2. How did her decision of being in love with you mean that you had to enter an affair with her?

 

3. Is this how the OP ended up married in the first place?

 

The OP sounds too nice, unable to act on his own without someone else to direct him. Like a conflict avoider. Big time.

 

OP, how will you end this cycle? It seems everyone in your life takes for granted that you might have your own thoughts and feelings. Including the friend that seems to be more looking out for the xOW than for you.

 

 

I probably ended up married in the first place because I wanted to avoid conflct to an extent. I also enjoyed her company, and we did share a lot of interests. Avoiding conflict at least with certain people like my wife is something I seek.

[whichwayisup]

I guess I fell in love with her as well. It wasn't just that she fell in love with me. Funny isnt it that you truly believe all the stuff that is being said to you. "That I have never loved like this before. That I want to be with you all my life. That you are going to break my heart. That I will take you even if you are penniless."

 

She may have meant it in the heat of the moment, in the 'affair' setting.. But once back in her 'real' life, reality takes over. Wishful thinking doesn't help. Words vs actions and her actions show you something opposite of what she's told you!!

[Lish]

I probably ended up married in the first place because I wanted to avoid conflct to an extent. I also enjoyed her company, and we did share a lot of interests. Avoiding conflict at least with certain people like my wife is something I seek.

 

It's almost like you're trying to justify yourself having an affair?

 

Why don't you just get a divorce or learn to cover it in future?

[offset_man]

It's almost like you're trying to justify yourself having an affair?

 

Why don't you just get a divorce or learn to cover it in future?

 

 

You sound a little bitter. You have no idea what I face every day. Perhaps I am trying to justify the affair. It would appear that as with a couple of the other posters on the site you see things in a black and white world and those of us who have strayed are without doubt evil human beings. Marriage is a legal construct as you know and bears little or no resemblance to reality. Marriage can be wonderful; it can also be Hell.

 

Perhaps I should get a divorce and perhaps I will. We all need to get up in the morning and try to have a happy day. Until you are able to walk a mile in my shoes then you should try to be a little less judgemental.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Thanks Untouchable. I have suggested counselling however she says I am the one that needs it, not her. No kidding. We had an absolutely terrible weekend because I invited her to the pub on Friday night. She said no (she knows how important my friday night pub nights are). So I said I was going. I said I would bring a pizza home for dinner. She said, No, i have homemade soup and I am not waiting for you. I arrived home then at 7.30 and it was an ugly scene because I had shown her no respect. The entire weekend as a result was ruined and she slept elsewhere on friday night.

She's got lots of emotional issues and I am afraid I don't do a very good job at providing a salve. She expects people to behave in a certain way (I see it in her parents house) and if one doesn't then God help you. I have had many fights with her father who has the same personality. Yes, anger management is a problem. Her brother once told me in relation to her father, "you don't want my father running bar", as alcohol can set him off. Those were his words to me at at time I was looking at buying one and was going to include him.

 

You need to somehow convince her that she needs to attend marriage counseling.

 

I would bet control is one of her top motivators. Find some way to make her feel in control when pitching this to her.

 

Seriously, there are too many good women out there to stay with a crappy wife like that. It's unfortunate that you have sunk so much effort into this one already.

 

I think you owe it to everyone in your family to try and turn this around before you end it. She won't listen to you... there is too much pride and resentment.

[bentnotbroken]

You sound a little bitter. You have no idea what I face every day. Perhaps I am trying to justify the affair. It would appear that as with a couple of the other posters on the site you see things in a black and white world and those of us who have strayed are without doubt evil human beings. Marriage is a legal construct as you know and bears little or no resemblance to reality. Marriage can be wonderful; it can also be Hell.

 

Perhaps I should get a divorce and perhaps I will. We all need to get up in the morning and try to have a happy day. Until you are able to walk a mile in my shoes then you should try to be a little less judgemental.

 

 

How do you know, the people you term "bitter" haven't walked a mile in your shoes. You came on here judging the ow for having dumped you and moved on. All you wanted her to do was give you the time of day to close things the way that suited you. You were upset by her actions, you judged them because you didn't agree with them and they didn't include you.

 

Let's call it the way it is. We as humans judge everyday to make life decisions. It this a good neighborhood to live in, are these children going to have the "right" influence on my children, is it easier to avoid conflict than solve it......unless you have given up your human status card, then you do just what everyone else does, you just don't care for it when someone doesn't package it in a pretty bow with perfume on top.

 

Yes, different people, different views. It doesn't make them bitter or angry. Does cheating make you all the things that some people call cheaters....I doubt it very seriously. So if the people who say the things that you don't' like are bitter, what would you like to be called? Immature-weak coping skills. Bitter-the ow moved on and you want closure. Coward-won't face the issues at hand.

 

Would you use any of those words to describe the words you post? Is that what is in your heart? I don't know, but I do know I am no more bitter than I am a 6 foot tall white dude with red hair from from the planet Zartha. The questions asked have been valid questions. You don't want to answer, that's fine, but stop with the bitter label. It is a mask for you not knowing the answers or the direction you want your life to take.

[offset_man]

You need to somehow convince her that she needs to attend marriage counseling.

 

I would bet control is one of her top motivators. Find some way to make her feel in control when pitching this to her.

 

Seriously, there are too many good women out there to stay with a crappy wife like that. It's unfortunate that you have sunk so much effort into this one already.

 

I think you owe it to everyone in your family to try and turn this around before you end it. She won't listen to you... there is too much pride and resentment.

 

The reason I am with her is because I do love her; the reason i never left her for the other woman is that I just could see failure at the end of the day, and as it happened, look what happened.

 

Somedays are pretty Hellish. Last night was pretty bad, but I need to blame myself for having had a bad day and bringing it home to her. I tried to make ammends all weekend with her and she just wasn't buying and then last night when she was, I wasn't. I appreciate your advice. I am not the greatest man on planet earth, and I think there are few posters here on this site that have made it abundantly clear, but I was given many strong attributes as well as the weak ones and I think I deserve to have a happy life.

[offset_man]

How do you know, the people you term "bitter" haven't walked a mile in your shoes. You came on here judging the ow for having dumped you and moved on. All you wanted her to do was give you the time of day to close things the way that suited you. You were upset by her actions, you judged them because you didn't agree with them and they didn't include you.

 

Let's call it the way it is. We as humans judge everyday to make life decisions. It this a good neighborhood to live in, are these children going to have the "right" influence on my children, is it easier to avoid conflict than solve it......unless you have given up your human status card, then you do just what everyone else does, you just don't care for it when someone doesn't package it in a pretty bow with perfume on top.

 

Yes, different people, different views. It doesn't make them bitter or angry. Does cheating make you all the things that some people call cheaters....I doubt it very seriously. So if the people who say the things that you don't' like are bitter, what would you like to be called? Immature-weak coping skills. Bitter-the ow moved on and you want closure. Coward-won't face the issues at hand.

 

Would you use any of those words to describe the words you post? Is that what is in your heart? I don't know, but I do know I am no more bitter than I am a 6 foot tall white dude with red hair from from the planet Zartha. The questions asked have been valid questions. You don't want to answer, that's fine, but stop with the bitter label. It is a mask for you not knowing the answers or the direction you want your life to take.

 

 

Ah, there's my old frient "bent" again. I wondered if she'd show up soon. Bent -I am going to say, you have not walked a mile in my shoes and nor have I in yours. Perhaps we have common but opposite experiences, but that is it.

 

I just find that what you say absolutely of no value whatsoever. It has nothing to do with me not liking what you say, it is just that it is pure vitriol in my opinion. My wife, for all you know, could be psychotic personality and spend my days trying desperately to keep a lid on things. You don't know that, but I am coming to the conclusion there are manic dpressive issues. The point is that we are all arm chair pshyciatrists here on this forum and we need to realize that. It is not possible to diagnose one's character or reasons for doing something until you have LITERALLY walked a mile on one's shoes.

[Lish]

You sound a little bitter. You have no idea what I face every day. Perhaps I am trying to justify the affair. It would appear that as with a couple of the other posters on the site you see things in a black and white world and those of us who have strayed are without doubt evil human beings. Marriage is a legal construct as you know and bears little or no resemblance to reality. Marriage can be wonderful; it can also be Hell.

 

Perhaps I should get a divorce and perhaps I will. We all need to get up in the morning and try to have a happy day. Until you are able to walk a mile in my shoes then you should try to be a little less judgemental.

 

Erm.. I'm actually not bitter at all.

It is black and white. The second you begin to consider an affair or question your marriage, is the second you lose all respect for your spouse. It's also the second you should either tell your spouse how you feel & decide if you want to work on your marriage.

Perhaps you should get a divorce? You just implied your marriage is hell and you've broken the vows.. is there any point in staying in the marriage? Is there any point of prolonging the pain for yourself?

 

Why wont you just get a divorce, get over this OW and heal? I don't have sympathy for your situation but I also do NOT wish you any pain, I just think you should get out.

 

I've had more problems in my life you can imagine, so I know what true pain is.

[bentnotbroken]

Ah, there's my old frient "bent" again. I wondered if she'd show up soon. Bent -I am going to say, you have not walked a mile in my shoes and nor have I in yours. Perhaps we have common but opposite experiences, but that is it.

 

I just find that what you say absolutely of no value whatsoever. It has nothing to do with me not liking what you say, it is just that it is pure vitriol in my opinion. My wife, for all you know, could be psychotic personality and spend my days trying desperately to keep a lid on things. You don't know that, but I am coming to the conclusion there are manic dpressive issues. The point is that we are all arm chair pshyciatrists here on this forum and we need to realize that. It is not possible to diagnose one's character or reasons for doing something until you have LITERALLY walked a mile on one's shoes.

 

 

I didn't say I had walked in your shoes. I asked how do you now they haven't? As you so beautifully stated, this is board that allows a limited snapshot into the lives of those who post. Just as you say "I don't know, and neither do you, what the people behind the screens have dealt with. YOU (as we all do)got the info that was given, it doesn't make the whole person. YOU don't know what anyone on this board has actually gone through, and as far a desperately trying to keep a lid on things....I failed, miserably unitl I got help. Depression that is chronic and deep isn't something anyone can diagnose on a board. I don't recall anyone making that suggestion, except you. I will go back and read. Again, I have never said anything about your relationship with your wife. I only questioned your feelings toward the ow.

[fooled once]

Did I hit a sore spot? Is it not possible for two people who are in a marriage to meet and to fall in love? Is life that black and white for you? My marriage has been rocky from day one, and perhaps I was wrong to get into it. I fell in love with another woman, and she with me. There are many reasons why it ended, but yes, as a matter of fact, I believed that we could have made something of that relationship.

 

I am sure that you don't see it that way, however your tone is rather bitter and you are showing who you are.

 

Throwing out the bitter comment when you don't like the advice or thoughts given by someone who thinks cheating on a spouse is a bad thing.

 

I agree with Bent, if you find yourself having feelings for someone else other than the person you married, you should have enough respect for that person you married to (a) go to counseling - individually or couples (b) separate BEFORE pulling down your pants © own up to these 'feelings' for another person to your spouse before doing (b)

 

Not sure how hard that is *shrug*

[fooled once]

It's almost like you're trying to justify yourself having an affair?

 

Why don't you just get a divorce or learn to cover it in future?

 

Excellent questions.

 

A lot of people who have an affair do try to justify it instead of OWNING what they did.

 

Didn't you hear Lish, divorces are too hard to get ... easier to cheat than divorce.

[offset_man]

How do you know, the people you term "bitter" haven't walked a mile in your shoes. You came on here judging the ow for having dumped you and moved on. All you wanted her to do was give you the time of day to close things the way that suited you. You were upset by her actions, you judged them because you didn't agree with them and they didn't include you.

 

Let's call it the way it is. We as humans judge everyday to make life decisions. It this a good neighborhood to live in, are these children going to have the "right" influence on my children, is it easier to avoid conflict than solve it......unless you have given up your human status card, then you do just what everyone else does, you just don't care for it when someone doesn't package it in a pretty bow with perfume on top.

 

Yes, different people, different views. It doesn't make them bitter or angry. Does cheating make you all the things that some people call cheaters....I doubt it very seriously. So if the people who say the things that you don't' like are bitter, what would you like to be called? Immature-weak coping skills. Bitter-the ow moved on and you want closure. Coward-won't face the issues at hand.

 

Would you use any of those words to describe the words you post? Is that what is in your heart? I don't know, but I do know I am no more bitter than I am a 6 foot tall white dude with red hair from from the planet Zartha. The questions asked have been valid questions. You don't want to answer, that's fine, but stop with the bitter label. It is a mask for you not knowing the answers or the direction you want your life to take.

 

 

You have not walked a mile in my shoes. How could you have? You are just extremely judgemental. I don't recall saying that I was better than the OW. I outlined my current scenario and received a lot of "tsk tsk tss...you're a very bad boy". And you know what? I was.

[bentnotbroken]

You have not walked a mile in my shoes. How could you have? You are just extremely judgemental. I don't recall saying that I was better than the OW. I outlined my current scenario and received a lot of "tsk tsk tss...you're a very bad boy". And you know what? I was.

 

 

I wasn't the only person you termed as "bitter". I didn't say(once again)that I had walked in your shoes. Sheesh. You came her stating

 

yeah, I am not really sure I want to resume an affair with this woman, however I would like to make some peace with her. Based on what her friend told me I have lost some respect for her.

 

 

and...............

 

However towards the end, I realized that she was not a good mate for me, and especially now, when I find out that loyalty is not her strong point (funny, I really thought she was quite loyal to me

 

 

These are 2 of the statements you made. I read them as you implying as somehow she owed you more than her H or the OMM for that matter. You made it seem as if your respect was something to be thankful of earning. As I have said before the qualities you accused her of "NOT" exhibiting, were qualities you....did exhibit either. So why would you expect them from someone else's wife?

Edited November 13, 2009 by bentnotbroken