Rudderless Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 It takes balls of steel to open up to a potential partner. I fully respect anyone who can do so. I have zero respect for men who are too afraid to do so. I agree with your sentiment, but, it's not that difficult to open yourself to a woman that makes you feel safe about it. It is however, difficult to open yourself up to the woman the OP is talking about. In this case, he actually has no choice but to either open up or walk away because otherwise he'll lose the plot. TO the OP I wouldn't choose to do what you did, past experience would urge me to start walking. But I'm not going to criticise you either, because I don't think there is a "right" thing to do in this situation.
BG1985 Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 If you're sexual with a girl and spending time with her, I think she'll get the picture that you're interested. I think girls understand the motives behind most of what guys do.
Rudderless Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 If you're sexual with a girl and spending time with her, I think she'll get the picture that you're interested. I think girls understand the motives behind most of what guys do. Have you ever had a woman completely and utterly into you before they are sexual with you?
BG1985 Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 I wouldn't say completely and utterly into me, but I've had girls who really put themselves out there to get my attention before being sexual with me. These girls would make themselves look foolish to an extent.
threebyfate Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 From some of the comments being made in this thread, some don't have a clue about women. Assumptions are being made that women think like men. Not even close...
mammax3 Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 jl, I think that given this girl's history, 2 months may not have been long enough for her. However, she now knows how you say you feel, so now you can continue to show her how you feel in being supportive, patient, stable, interested etc. Being sexual with a woman does not illustrate that a man likes her - it just means that he likes her body (or, sees no other body that he likes or finds as easy to access). I disagree with the notion that an emotionally vulnerable woman would equate kisses and sex with special feelings. It may only serve to fuel her disbelief and scepticism. hand holding, gentle yet passionate kisses while cradling the back of her head - the disney type stuff - coupled with genuine interest and attention will indicate that a man finds a woman special.
Rudderless Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 I wouldn't say completely and utterly into me, but I've had girls who really put themselves out there to get my attention before being sexual with me. These girls would make themselves look foolish to an extent. Reason I brought this up is because some women are pretty much available partners from the get go. The problem I think is assuming that this woman can in some way be "caught" or won over. I don't think she can, personally. I think any woman that's brought up several issues with you in the first couple of months is a pretty bad bet. That said, I'm sure there are men who would and have pursed with this kind of complication and been successful.
threebyfate Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 A man wanting to "do" you, is about as far from caring about a woman, as you can possibly get. If a woman is really into you and cares for you, she's going to appreciate that you show her your vulnerabilities. If a woman is uncertain of her feelings for you, showing her your vulnerabilities can go either way. After showing your vulnerabilities, don't smother her. But as well, don't withdraw. This is a male failing that so many guys do, for self-protection. Instead of protecting you, it will create uncertainty between you, making her move away from you, to self-protect. Just be who you were before, who I hope was the real you, all along.
Johnny M Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 You really don't get it. Women don't like it when their men become emotional bags of molten sugar. Sure, sugar is sweet, but when it's a molten mess, it's disgusting. You didn't need to barf your feelings into her ear. Women don't need to hear that you have "strong feelings". So how do you express yourself? Your actions. Take her in your arms, cover her in kisses, make love to her. Let her know that her as a feminine being attracts you like the wild animal that you are. THAT is how you tell a woman how you feel, not this yucky girly talk. +1. OP, either you've been watching too many movies or got advice from the wrong people. No offense, but your post sounds like it was written by a teenage girl. You're a man....so don't go around spewing "sensitive" verbal diarrhea. Like Lovegod said, get her to trust you through your actions, not your words.
SadandConfusedWA Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 The only woman that won't LOVE you opening up like that is the woman that is not that into you. If she is not that into you, she might feel a bit iffy because she doesn't reciprocate those feelings. If that is the case it is much better to know sooner rather than bury your head in the sand.
atlast3 Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 You really don't get it. Women don't like it when their men become emotional bags of molten sugar. Sure, sugar is sweet, but when it's a molten mess, it's disgusting. You didn't need to barf your feelings into her ear. Women don't need to hear that you have "strong feelings". So how do you express yourself? Your actions. Take her in your arms, cover her in kisses, make love to her. Let her know that her as a feminine being attracts you like the wild animal that you are. THAT is how you tell a woman how you feel, not this yucky girly talk. NOT TRUE. I'm a woman and I wished my ex would have said that to me. I wouldnt have to guess and it would be have been so special that he felt comfortable enough to open up to me and express his love. People need to see it and HEAR it. I remember when I first told him I loved him and he shot me down so bad. I wasnt ever able to fully recover. Whether he loved me or not, I always had my doubts and I think the relationship really did suffer. You build upon those moments that are "milestones" in a relationship. If they are ruined it can be extremely hard for it to be an healthy relationship. Stay open about how you feel. Thats where a lot of men go wrong. They emotionally detach themselves from their girl and women need emotion. Once the emotion is gone then its really hard to continue to grow together in a healthy relationship. I just hope her behavior doesn't start pulling you away. At first when my ex kept shooting me down I wanted him to see I cared so much and I wasn't going to hurt him but eventually the hurt built up and I just started to pull away.
Author JL911 Posted November 4, 2009 Author Posted November 4, 2009 Wow...I didnt see this going this far.. We were together tonight...Things were good...We talked a lot tonight just about random stuff... Before she left tonight we kissed I held her close and she did open up to me a little saying...Im sorry about the other night...It takes me a long time to open up to people and I know I have a trust issue that I need to work on. She told me she really likes me and I do make her very happy... I responded by saying I was sorry for scaring her, and said I wasnt sorry for saying what I did, just I dont want to add pressure to our relationship. I think I will leave the rest of the talking up to her and show her what I can do through my actions. I am far from insecure about myself..But can see how this comment could be taken as fishing for answers...
Lovegod Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 From some of the comments being made in this thread, some don't have a clue about women. Assumptions are being made that women think like men. Not even close... While I agree that women don't think like men, men also don't think like women. In other words, you keep on expressing your emotions verbally and I'll keep showing mine by leading a woman into the bedroom and making love to her.
threebyfate Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Well done JL! The ball's in her court now. Let's see if she starts moving towards you, with no pressure.
EcstasyX6 Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Wow...I didnt see this going this far.. We were together tonight...Things were good...We talked a lot tonight just about random stuff... Before she left tonight we kissed I held her close and she did open up to me a little saying...Im sorry about the other night...It takes me a long time to open up to people and I know I have a trust issue that I need to work on. She told me she really likes me and I do make her very happy... I responded by saying I was sorry for scaring her, and said I wasnt sorry for saying what I did, just I dont want to add pressure to our relationship. I think I will leave the rest of the talking up to her and show her what I can do through my actions. I am far from insecure about myself..But can see how this comment could be taken as fishing for answers... JL, The men here sound like they've been burned in the past by wearing their hearts on their sleeves. It's unfortunate when your love isn't returned, and you're hurt from an unwanted outcome, but that doesn't mean that you should guard your heart forever more inside an armored tank and never express yourself again. I think it take a strong man to express himself emotionally. Bravo!! You sound very much like my current bf who's very confident in himself. He pretty much whisked me off of my feet by expressing his feelings early in the relationship to me through 2 songs he sent, then by using his words sparingly. He showed me through passionate lovemaking. I have to agree with one of the men on that one, but it was the combination of those things that made me fall for him, not just the sex. I also expressed a lot of insecurity the way your girlfriend did, because of coming out of a disappointing long term relationship. Even though he had been burned badly by his ex, he remained(and remains) strong, determined, and consistent. I'm also crazy about him, so it didn't take him long to real me in. I do think some of the men here are right, in that gushing with some women is a bad idea, but at the same time, if you don't verbally express, how are you going to gauge if she's really into you as much as you are into her? I'm talking about when you really like someone as he does. If you run a woman away(or a man for that matter for women) by expressions of emotion, he or she wasn't into you that way. Come on guys. Show a woman through sex?? Ok. So you're saying that's normal male behavior. So you meet the woman of you're dreams. You want to show love through sex. She, showing typical female behavior, (for some) doesn't want to give up the sex because she thinks you just want to screw her. You clam up, not wanting to be 'Disney' like, so she doesn't give you the sex you want. You lose her. This is the big problem I keep hearing more often than not on CL. Another scenario: You meet a woman you like who gives you sex, but you never talk emotion(as you suggest should be done), and she dumps you, but you really liked her(which I've done) You're puzzled. The sex was great, but she thought that's all you wanted, so she acted accordingly. CL, I think you're on the right track, but if she continues to turtle up, and not reciprocate, I think it's a clear message that she's not that into you, and you should move on.
torranceshipman Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 WTF??? That's like me saying "It takes an extremely feminine woman to cut the guts out of a freshly shot deer" Lol...one of the more bizarre comparisons out there!
Lovegod Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 So you meet the woman of you're dreams. You want to show love through sex. She, showing typical female behavior, (for some) doesn't want to give up the sex because she thinks you just want to screw her. You clam up, not wanting to be 'Disney' like, so she doesn't give you the sex you want. You lose her. It's always interesting when women here respond to something they're offended by. The problem with your scenarios is that you're not actually in them. It's a whole different story when the man has met the woman, had fun with her, taken her out for a good time, makes her feel good (non-verbally) and she's experiencing a pleasant emotional overflow. When that happens she WILL have sex and won't be thinking about being used for it. I honestly can't remember the last time I was turned down for sex because the woman suspected that it was all I wanted. I made her feel good first, made her feel like I was the greatest guy to walk into her life, and made her emotionally and sexually attracted to me. However, if I would have gone up to a woman I didn't know and said "You wanna fu**" then I'd crash and burn. Getting a woman into bed takes what you call "chemistry", and I'm a fantastic chemist
torranceshipman Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 It is amazing to see how men and women give such different advice in this thread. The men's advice will probably work if you want other men to think you're a hit with the ladies (i.e. don't say sissy stuff)-but if you actually want to BE a hit with the ladies, as opposed to just having other men think you are, then LISTEN to the WOMEN on here The right woman will love hearing sweet stuff - it is how us women are made. It is what we want. Yes, gushing is no good, but opening up and saying those sweet words that we want to hear is AWESOME! It is actually part of the reason I fell so hard for my boyfriend, as he is so good at that, at being romantic and making me feel special (but in a masculine way, so he isn't 'gushy' at all-it makes him come off as a real gent who is self assured and confident). It really sets him apart from other guys....
Author JL911 Posted November 4, 2009 Author Posted November 4, 2009 Torrance, that is exctly what I am trying to do is set myself apart from the others she has dated and I feel I have been doing a fairly good job. This wasnt a situation where I felt I was gushing to her. I just dropped a few quick lines found out about a few of her insecurities and that was it. It was more like just letting her know hey Im here because I like you and yes you are becoming special to me.
espec10001 Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 OP, Women relate to 4 things: emotion(water), passion(fire), intellect(air), and stability(earth). 1. Give her light showers with your feelings, but don't pour on the Waters of Emotion to the point you drown her. 2. Have your flame inside to keep the romance alive, but don't burn her with too big a Flame of Passion. 3. Have intellectual conversations with her, but don't be too flighty or aloof with the Air of Intellect. 4. Be strong and confident and firm, but don't be too rigid and stubborn like the Earth of Stability. Women are delicate beings.
WTRanger Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) JL, what has made this girl's "friends" stab her in the back? I had known a similar girl who had always claimed she was screwed over by people she thought were her friends. Come to find out after a year of knowing her, the only reason these people "screw" her over is the fact that she is a terrible friend to begin with. She has somehow convinced herself that it was never her actions or lack of actions that caused these people to ditch her. As far as she is concerned she's a perfect princess who God has decided to punish for no reason. She was also very vocal about having "trust" issues, etc. She would demand attention from these friends, and myself, but when we needed her to help us she inevitably was "busy." She simply could not reciprocate. In the end, all she created were one-sided friendships that when they ended she could go whine to some new people about how horrible her life is and get them to feel sorry for her and start the process all over again. She failed to see that by her attitude of everyone she ever knows is going to dump her, she created a self-fulfilling situations. Her actions, whether or not she realized them, would drive these people away. Thus, feed her mind that everyone just is out to get her for no reason. That experience taught me that it should be taken as a red flag when someone is so vocal about being screwed over by other people. Do they just become friends with losers or is she the common thread? Edited November 4, 2009 by WTRanger
Author JL911 Posted November 4, 2009 Author Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) WTRanger, Now you are descirbing my ex gf who had NO friends and would constantly blame others. That was a red flag I ignored and now know better. This also describes my younger sister who also has these social self centered issues with people where she constantly wants people to cater to her needs without ever considering theirs. As a man and a brother of 2 sisters I know that some girls are very very petty and take advantage of good people. Not to mention I know that guys can do the same when it comes to friends and girls...Maybe she has just run in to a few too many of these people that has put this wall up for the right people to jump over and the others to walk away from. I dunno. This one is different. Shes got friends some very close ones too, shes been in a few weddings this year, shes close with her mom and dad, and is fairly social. I just think that betrayal on any level does not sit well with her. I guess in order to prove myself I am going to have to stand the test of time. We have similar outlooks on life when it comes to people. When I left highschool I guess I found out who a lot of my friends are. Lots of em turned their backs on me and kinda acted differently towards me or just straight up talked ****. I once considered some of these people my best friends. It was odd but i got over it quickly. Because of that I now have a very close nit and small group of exceptional friends who i can be honest with and it does take time to establish that type of friendship with me. This one has been very open with me from the start that it takes her time to open up and trust people. She has not demanded an ounce of attention from me and has been very open in saying she enjoys spending time with me...I just opted to try to make a move in furthering our relationship and trying to build trust and it didnt go over quite as planned. The beginning of any relationship seems kinda ackward as you try to figure someone out and learn them. I hope in time the 2 of us can find some sort of comfort in trusting one another... Edited November 4, 2009 by JL911
Stung Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 It is amazing to see how men and women give such different advice in this thread. The men's advice will probably work if you want other men to think you're a hit with the ladies (i.e. don't say sissy stuff)-but if you actually want to BE a hit with the ladies, as opposed to just having other men think you are, then LISTEN to the WOMEN on here The right woman will love hearing sweet stuff - it is how us women are made. It is what we want. Yes, gushing is no good, but opening up and saying those sweet words that we want to hear is AWESOME! It is actually part of the reason I fell so hard for my boyfriend, as he is so good at that, at being romantic and making me feel special (but in a masculine way, so he isn't 'gushy' at all-it makes him come off as a real gent who is self assured and confident). It really sets him apart from other guys.... +1. OP, you're getting a lot of crappy advice from would-be players on here. Women, as TBF and others have pointed out, do not think like men. Since you're interested in a relationship with this woman, not just getting into her pants, substituting sex for communication would be a terrible way to go. Sure, there are women who are bad communicators too, but just ask any woman in a long-term relationship how she feels when her man never talks about his feelings and only wants her for sex. It's just about the number one complaint women have of their long-term partners and it's amazing to me that some of these guys who think they are ladies' men are actually giving you that advice . Look, I don't know what the outcome will be here. If she is emotionally adult and actually ready for a real relationship, she will appreciate your honesty and love it that you make her feel special. If she is emotionally a little girl or is otherwise somehow deeply damaged, she might not, in which case it's best for you to move along anyways. I myself was a bit of a commitment-phobe and had some trust issues for many many years, due to things that happened in my childhood. Then a few years ago I met the man who was the right fit for me. We had a conversation strikingly similar to the one in your OP, and I think part of him even regretted bringing it up so soon himself, because I was a little uncertain, afraid of vulnerability. But he was strong and secure enough to be open with me AND to support me while I figured out how to let myself be open with him, and that was incredibly attractive to me. I married him just eleven days ago .
Rudderless Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 JL, what has made this girl's "friends" stab her in the back? I had known a similar girl who had always claimed she was screwed over by people she thought were her friends. Come to find out after a year of knowing her, the only reason these people "screw" her over is the fact that she is a terrible friend to begin with. She has somehow convinced herself that it was never her actions or lack of actions that caused these people to ditch her. As far as she is concerned she's a perfect princess who God has decided to punish for no reason. She was also very vocal about having "trust" issues, etc. She would demand attention from these friends, and myself, but when we needed her to help us she inevitably was "busy." She simply could not reciprocate. In the end, all she created were one-sided friendships that when they ended she could go whine to some new people about how horrible her life is and get them to feel sorry for her and start the process all over again. She failed to see that by her attitude of everyone she ever knows is going to dump her, she created a self-fulfilling situations. Her actions, whether or not she realized them, would drive these people away. Thus, feed her mind that everyone just is out to get her for no reason. That experience taught me that it should be taken as a red flag when someone is so vocal about being screwed over by other people. Do they just become friends with losers or is she the common thread? You totally nailed what I was thinking and why I would be pretty cautious (to say the least) about opening up when that sort of shaky ground was presented to me.
Stung Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 JL, what has made this girl's "friends" stab her in the back? I had known a similar girl who had always claimed she was screwed over by people she thought were her friends. Come to find out after a year of knowing her, the only reason these people "screw" her over is the fact that she is a terrible friend to begin with. She has somehow convinced herself that it was never her actions or lack of actions that caused these people to ditch her. As far as she is concerned she's a perfect princess who God has decided to punish for no reason. She was also very vocal about having "trust" issues, etc. She would demand attention from these friends, and myself, but when we needed her to help us she inevitably was "busy." She simply could not reciprocate. In the end, all she created were one-sided friendships that when they ended she could go whine to some new people about how horrible her life is and get them to feel sorry for her and start the process all over again. She failed to see that by her attitude of everyone she ever knows is going to dump her, she created a self-fulfilling situations. Her actions, whether or not she realized them, would drive these people away. Thus, feed her mind that everyone just is out to get her for no reason. That experience taught me that it should be taken as a red flag when someone is so vocal about being screwed over by other people. Do they just become friends with losers or is she the common thread? This is also potentially a very good point. Before you get too head-over-heels here, OP, get to know this woman better. Keep your eyes open.
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