What makes a successful marriage?

[bloggervenus]

Your parents tell you “Make sure he comes from a good family. Does he love you for who you really are? Is he committed and trust worthy? Can you guys communicate well? Do you share the same goals and dreams? Do you have the same worldview? Are you on the same page when it comes to religion or political views? Are you good friends? Do you have the same hobbies? Is he kind and caring? Do you think he will be a good father?”

 

The man I married has all of those. He is kind and caring, not just towards me, but towards the entire universe. He has very little ego, and is innocent like a child. He gets excited about little things and jumps up and down like a little boy when something good happens. He is the person I try to be in many ways. I love how he is able to live in the moment. I on the other hand am constantly worried about -and planning for- the future. I love how he is able to forgive himself if he fails in something. I tend to criticize and torture myself for the smallest less than perfect action or thought, let alone a failure. I love how he always smiles and is in a happy mood. I never have to worry about cheering him up or getting him out of a bad mood.

 

My husband is a very mature human being. He is open to things and ideas, does not judge people for what they believe in or what they do or don’t do, and lends a helping hand to everyone without expecting anything in return. He has been there for me through ups and downs. Like when I was in school and had to fight a big battle with my senior supervisor who wasn’t letting me graduate, or when my dad was very sick and our family was going through hell. He was there for me when I had trouble with a colleague at work who was stealing my ideas. He consoled me when I got laid off and patiently listened to my complaints while I was looking for a new one. He was there for me when I was getting my graduate degree and was hardly at home or spending any time with him. When I got severely depressed and needed professional help, he was very understanding and helped me get through it. He loves me, tells me that I am pretty and have a great body, and supports me in whatever I decide to do.

 

Doesn’t he sound like a perfect man? Wouldn’t you want to have a husband like that?

Then, why don’t I?

 

Is it because I have too much of a good thing and my critical mind wants to find a flaw in it? Is it because I am just an unhappy person always focusing on what is missing? Or is it because in my early thirties, I finally have enough self confidence to confess, “I am not -and never was- in love with my husband and I want and deserve to be in love”?

 

You see I never liked his looks or his body. I never liked the way he walked and talked. There was never any chemistry between us. His boyish and innocent behavior used to make me feel like I needed to protect him. I never liked the way his friends treated him. It felt like they did not take him seriously, and he was too good to even notice that. I made it my mission to protect him, like a mother would. You see, he has all these ideas about business ventures, scientific experiments, books he wants to write, or movies he wants to make, and none of them have yet been implemented. Naturally, no one takes his stories seriously any more. Over the years I have also learned to tune out when he talks about his next wonderful grant proposal or exceptional business plan. If I take them seriously, I set myself up for big disappointments. Unfortunately I have lost faith in his ability to make anything happen.

 

I have been the sole breadwinner of our family since we got married. It is 7 years now! He was a PHD student for the first 6 years, and has been working on his startup company during the past year. He started a company the first year we got married. It failed miserably leaving us in huge debt (which I paid off eventually). He found some good real estate investment deals for us and with my credit we bought, renovated, rented, and sold those places and made some good money. He is really proud of his achievements with those deals as they have increased our net worth. He does not believe it is any less credit to him that I was actually the one who paid the down payments and mortgages for those investments.

 

I want to separate from my husband. I do not know if I will ever be able to find a man as good as him, but I am tired of living with someone I do not love or trust. I respect him as a human being and as a friend, but I don’t respect him as a man. He doesn’t make me feel womanly, feminine, and cherished. I want to feel protected in the arms of my partner. I want a powerful man with a successful career, whom I admire and trust. I want to be in love.

 

Funny, isn’ t it? I married a man who had all the characteristics that my parents told me were important, and yet I am not happy. He IS my best friend, he IS kind and caring, we DO share the same interests and hobbies. Nevertheless (and despite my constant efforts), I do not desire him. And unfortunately, what I have is not good enough anymore. Seven years ago, I was naïve and adamant to not let my heart ruin my life! But the heart’s desire eventually raises its head, no matter how long you try to bury it.

 

Someone said to me the other day, “Maybe you shouldn’t marry someone you can live with. Maybe you should marry someone you desire so much that you can’t live without”. Maybe...

 

Would love to hear your thoughts.

Edited November 1, 2009 by bloggervenus

[JaneInVegas]

I am kinda sorta in the same boat you're in. I'm having a hard time deciding what the "right" thing to do is, too. Every so often I get so fed up with him I want to scream ... but I remind myself he is just about as "perfect" as I'm ever going to get (in spite of a couple of major character flaws).

 

I'm thinking that eventually the fed up part of me is going to win the war, and I have a feeling it will with you, too. Life is too short to not be with The One that makes you feel like singing from a mountain top ... ya know?

 

Don't worry about what your parents think (or would have thought) about your guy. Your parents don't have to live with your guy forever ... YOU do. I'm sure your happiness is more important to them than just about anything else.

[Thornton]

In a rational, logical sense your husband is the perfect man... however love and desire are not rational or logical. You love your husband on an intellectual and emotional level, but it sounds like you never connected with him on a physical level... you love him, but you're not in love with him. There are many threads on this forum on just that topic.

 

I also think that (despite modern notions of equality) women tend to think of men as protectors and providers... when the woman is the breadwinner the man often feels emasculated, and the woman may lose her attraction to him because she feels like he is not playing the role of protector and provider. If he is physically weak and unassertive then that also contributes to her view of him as the beta male. The relationship moves from a husband and wife relationship to a friendship, or even worse to a mother and son relationship in which she feels she has to take care of him. The latter especially is bound to dampen sexual desire.

 

My initial suggestion would be to attend marriage counselling and talk about these issues; perhaps you could work on changing the dynamic of your marriage and getting back to that equal husband-wife relationship, and perhaps your husband could work on being more assertive. However it is possible that you are simply not (and will never be) attracted to this man, and then you have a decision to make: either stay in the marriage for its good points despite the lack of attraction, or divorce and look for someone else who you may have more chemistry with (but who may not treat you as nicely as your husband does).

[bloggervenus]

You got it Thornton. That is exactly the problem. We did do counseling. Unfortunately, he does not feel like he could do more. He feels it is justified that he couldn't work because he was a student and that he has done more than other men out there do, by finding good investment deals...Nevertheless, he agreed to look for a job and work on his own business on the side. He hasn't found anything so far, and I think he is not looking hard enough. I think he is also a little bitter that he is doing this for me!

 

I wish there was a way to look into the future and know what the right decision is. Jane, I hope we both make the right one...

[mem11363]

He got a good job and kept it? Is the big factor here that he has not been a good provider or is the big factor his looks/behavior pattern?

 

And by behavior pattern - kindness can have a high overlap with conflict avoidance/weakness. Does he come across as weak to you?

 

One gift you could give him, would be to explain what things he does/does not do that will be turn offs/turn ons for a typical woman. Maybe that will help him in the future.

 

If he is long on ideas and short on execution maybe he should try to get a job as a professor.

 

I do agree you should not stay with someone you don't really love. You have not had children yet - better to cut losses now.

 

You got it Thornton. That is exactly the problem. We did do counseling. Unfortunately, he does not feel like he could do more. He feels it is justified that he couldn't work because he was a student and that he has done more than other men out there do, by finding good investment deals...Nevertheless, he agreed to look for a job and work on his own business on the side. He hasn't found anything so far, and I think he is not looking hard enough. I think he is also a little bitter that he is doing this for me!

 

I wish there was a way to look into the future and know what the right decision is. Jane, I hope we both make the right one...

[Lovelybird]

It seems that what attracted you in the beginning became something turn you off completely. In any relationship issue, I think there are always involves two parties' growth. It is not one side of coin.

 

Either you can work through those hard issues and grow more mature and grow more in love, or you repeat the patterns with different partner until you learn something and pass that test. It is not like if you change a partner, everything will be ok. maybe next one doesn't have the problem this one has, but definitely he has some other issues you have to deal with.

 

There doesn't exist perfect spouse on the earth. whoever you marry, you marry the imperfect part too, he is the same, he married an imperfect human as well. Does he accepts you even you aren't perfect? Does he forgive the wrongs you did to him?

 

I've heard that you cannot demand another to change, demand only inspire their rebellion. But one can influence and inspire another to change, when the one change self first, show humility first, see self not the one with no fault, then the another may want to change from their own heart.

 

There still have hope.

[The Midnight Rider]

When the Jews fled from Egypt, they were fed manna from God. It was a white, flaky bread that could be boiled, baked, and fried. When mixed with goats milk, water and wild herbs, there were even more variations of it. God sent perfect food to his children and you know how they repaid him? They did what we all do. They BITCHED! "The desert is so hot! When do we get to the promised land? I'm SICK of manna! I'd rather have stayed a slave than eat this heaven-made slop sent from the Entity that liberated us! Can't we have some meat? God, you SUCK!"

 

Needless to say, God was ticked. "You want meat ya' bunch of ungrateful brats? Here's some quail!" and God dumped quail on these guys like rain. They had baskets and baskets of quail and they couldn't eat it fast enough. Unfortunately, they forgot that God can have a vengeful side and introduced these children of God to a new word; Salmonella. Considering that in ancient times they had NO CLUE how not to get this, a lot of them died in the wilderness. I wonder if they thought as they were dying in the beating sun of the desert "I wish I had just shut my trap and ate the damn manna." Is this you? Are you looking a gift horse in the mouth? Is the diamond ring on your finger not bright enough?

 

That being said, I'm sure your husband is a big tub of goo that failed. And failed again. And keeps failing. He's probably not very attractive and is always broke. That is the way men are. We keep trying until we get something right. If you want to stay together, your gonna be continuously propping him up when he fails. Can you do this? Can you love him for what he is and not for what you want him to be? The differences between you are clear. Your husband is a dreamer and a visionary. You have your feet planted firmly in the sand. You two are as different as cats and hamburgers.

 

No amount of MC is going to help you unless you float your head in the clouds or he nails his feet to the sidewalk so you have a choice, dear. Either you are going to cling to him and his far out dreams, or leave. I am sure neither of you are bad people and I'm sure he'll call you a flaming bitch until the day you both die, but you will be doing both of you a favor if you leave. If you chose to stay, get ready for a helluva ride! You will go up, down and sideways and succeed and fail but you'll do it as a team. If you stay, you must give him your whole heart. If you are not able to do it, nobody will judge you. Life will go on. Hang on or let go is all you can do. Good luck.

 

PS: Don't kick yourself. You'll still be a good person no matter what happens.

Edited November 2, 2009 by The Midnight Rider

[bloggervenus]

Thank you all.

 

mem11363, it is both that he is failing in his career AND his behavior/physical attributes. I think it is more the failure though. I think if I admired him, his looks would not have bothered me this much. He is not weak and tries to address the issues. We actually talk and are open with each other. He is always ready to listen or to go to therapy to improve things. Funny you should suggest professorship, he is trying to find a faculty positions too, and I always tell him that he is meant to be one.

 

LovelyBird, yes I agree. I can't change him. I just have to decide whether I can love him with his failures, or need to move on. I also agree that there is a lesson here for me. I don't want to just throw in the towel and go repeat the same experience with someone else. I used to think that the lesson for me was to be open and non-judgmental, to learn to accept people as who they are, and to not want to change them. What has changed though is that I am starting to realize that no matter how hard I force myself, I can't fall in love with him. I accept him and I think he is incredibly special, but I don't love him. These days, I am starting to think that maybe the lesson I need to learn is to trust myself and my feelings. Maybe I need to learn to live with my heart a bit more. Maybe I need to give myself more value.

 

The Midnight Rider, loved the story. Thanks for sharing. You hit the nail right on the head. I say the same thing to my friends, he is flying and I am walking on the earth. I feel like I am tired of trying so much to fly with him. It is not in my nature and I hate the uncertainty. I am not living my life while being true to myself. It is not fair to me to always have to live in this uncertain world. It is a partnership as you said, and the first thing you need is to trust your partner. When you don't trust them, how can you support them? How can you love them?

[lostlove1]

First I want to thank you for the advice you gave me.......

I thought is was pretty good advice so I wanted to check out your post as well. I completely understand how you feel, the part about never being in love with your husband. With all of the personal work and I praying that I have done for myself I realize that I was never in love with my husband. I too felt bad for him and was just more motherly because he had lost both his mother and father. And I am not attracted to him physically at all. Being intimate is almost unbearable at times.

 

So I would like to tell you that even though at times we feel that we may have what people assume is a "good marriage" and certain qualities of a husband, we need the love. I want the butterflies and the sparks and the security. I just don't want the motions of a marriage, and I think that is what you are saying.

 

I do believe that you can have it all in one package, I just think its sad that we have to go thru so much to finally get it figured out.

[bloggervenus]

You are welcome LL. I will pray that we both make the right decision. Did you ever feel physically attracted to your husband? I never did, but thought that it would change. I have read many books and articles on women's sexuality, what creates desire and how you can make it last in a marriage. I firmly believe that if my husband gets his act together and become a strong successful person that i can depend on and be proud of i will feel sexually attracted to him. Sparks don't last forever, but I would like to at least have some desire for my husband.

[lostlove1]

I'm almost ashamed to admit it....no, I never was physically attracted. The circumstances that lead us together in the first place were not your normal romance, like I said more like a nurturing me feeling sorry for him and taking care of his emotional needs....I guess its the mother in me; I already had two children from a previous marriage.

 

We just grew more as companions and took care of each other in different ways, he helped me out with finanancial needs for my children and I helped him out emotionally.......he was always overweight. I had never dated a man that wasn't tall, muscular, and had a six pack, so this was very weird for me.....but....he did so much for me that I felt he was a special person to love my children and care for them. So I grew to love the companionship and security and I really felt that he needed me. I tried to overlook the weight so that I wouldn't be so shallow. It has been very difficult. He has lost weight, but I would say he needs to lose at least another 40 pounds.........so it is hard to be physically attracted to him. This may be shallow but this is really the truth of how I feel.

 

I believe that when he wasn't being emotionally abusive to me, which has only been since we made it legal, that I could overlook the physical part. Its funny how when someone is mean or angry or abusive emotionally, or lets you down how it changes the whole way you view them. I always say, mean is ugly. So with that said, there was a time when I was more attracted to him, when he was kind.........but never in a physically passionate sense.

 

So maybe if your husband was successful in more ways that you are expecting you will find him attractive. The only bad thing is.....that you never felt that way in the first place. So now that we are pouring our truths out, why did you marry him if you didn't find him attractive???

[Neutrino]

BloggerVenus what a touching story, I guess the hardest part is having to take action you know will hurt someone who is totally innocent and never deliberately did a thing to hurt you.

 

I think it is the same need you felt to protect him in the past - that is holding you back from leaving him now. He survived before you entered his life - and you have to realize he will survive after you leave it.

 

The only person who may not survive so well - is you.

 

He doesn't sound like a bad person - not anyone with bad intentions, or any intentions at all, he sounds like a space-tripper. What is his PhD on, he must be able to get some job that will keep him going ? When I read your posts your choice of words sometimes makes me think of astronomy... LOL

[bloggervenus]

Lostlove1, thank you so much for sharing your story. It makes me feel so much better to realize I am not the only person who maries someone without having any sexual attraction to them! My story is somewhat similar to yours. He was super kind to me and madly in love. I was attracted to how different he was from me. The old opposites attract thing. He was many things that I was not. I lived with my head and he lived with his heart. He was spontaneous, unconventional, non-judgmental and open. He didn't give a damn what other people thought and did things his own way. His friends were artsy people who were kinda wild or maybe even hippie in their life styles. That to me -a conventional college student with good girl behavior- was fascinating. At the same time I found myself gradually becoming his protector and credibility. Because of me people were starting to take him more seriously. I could see that I was good for him. Because of me he started finishing his undergraduate studies which had been left in the middle. Because of me he started going to graduate school. He stopped smoking. He started exercising and so on. Anyways, I think opposites attract but they don't necessarily make happy partnerships :-(

 

Neutrino, to be perfectly honest, my hesitation is not so much based on not wanting to hurt him. It is more based on my fear. The fear that I will never find anyone else as good as him and that I will end up being alone. It may sound selfish but I believe that he will be OK. He is the eternal optimist and the naturally happy person. In the past 12 years I have never seen him be sad for more than 2 days in a row. I know that he will be sad for 6 months but I also know that he will bounce back and I have a feeling that without me and my disapproving looks (I try so hard to not criticize but I know that he reads my emotions from my eyes) he will be even happier. He is an engineer by the way and he definitly can take care of himself financially.

 

Thank you all. It feels so good to talk about these issues and actually see some other people who are going through the same phases.

[lostlove1]

Yes Bloggervenus, I think we all need to get over the fear that we have of change, etc. We need to face things head on......unfortunately its not so easy, is it? Sounds good, but doing it is another thing.

 

You are definately not the only one out there, I'm sure other people have the same issues as we both do. Now, would you have different advice for me now that you know more details?? LOL.....I think thats what is difficult about the posts.....if we put every detail we would have a novel and no one would read them.....so we just add on as we go.

 

You know, there is always someone out there for everyone......another fear.....what if you don't take the risk and never know what love really is....you will really be missing out....

[Jinxies]

You sound just like me a year ago when I really started moving toward my ultimate divorce.

 

I met my X husband in high school. I'd dated a whack-job and was looking for someone safe, secure, and that I didn't feel threatened by. He was attractive, funny, extremely laid-back and loved to play games. Course, he went more into gaming than I expected and because I'm a "join em" type of person, I got into it as well.

 

We both had good careers, two great kids, a house, two cars... a dog. The whole "American Dream" family thing...

 

The problem was, there was no physical spark. We pretty much ignored each other. We never, ever fought, we just avoided conflict. I took care of the responsibilities - paying all the bills, grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning (yeah, I eventually hired a maid), making the doc appointments, etc. He never, ever paid bills.... he didn't easily go grocery shopping. I had to nag him to take the trash out...

 

When we went into MC, the counselor said we had shifted from a equal/equal relationship to a mother/son relationship. No wonder I felt overburdened, under appreciated and unhappy.

 

In the end, the woman I am at 32... is a far cry from the immature 17 year old girl that I was. It took me a few years to figure out what I was missing in my life... and that component... it was ME. There was no me anymore. There was wife... mother... care giver... but no Me. I needed to find me...

 

Course, since I divorced I've not made the best decisions. Go figure. We think we have finally learned a lesson, only to turn around and get schooled again.

 

I think you need to find your "ME". I wish you the best of luck!

[The Midnight Rider]

You sound just like me a year ago when I really started moving toward my ultimate divorce.

 

I met my X husband in high school. I'd dated a whack-job and was looking for someone safe, secure, and that I didn't feel threatened by. He was attractive, funny, extremely laid-back and loved to play games. Course, he went more into gaming than I expected and because I'm a "join em" type of person, I got into it as well.

 

We both had good careers, two great kids, a house, two cars... a dog. The whole "American Dream" family thing...

 

The problem was, there was no physical spark. We pretty much ignored each other. We never, ever fought, we just avoided conflict. I took care of the responsibilities - paying all the bills, grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning (yeah, I eventually hired a maid), making the doc appointments, etc. He never, ever paid bills.... he didn't easily go grocery shopping. I had to nag him to take the trash out...

 

When we went into MC, the counselor said we had shifted from a equal/equal relationship to a mother/son relationship. No wonder I felt overburdened, under appreciated and unhappy.

 

In the end, the woman I am at 32... is a far cry from the immature 17 year old girl that I was. It took me a few years to figure out what I was missing in my life... and that component... it was ME. There was no me anymore. There was wife... mother... care giver... but no Me. I needed to find me...

 

Course, since I divorced I've not made the best decisions. Go figure. We think we have finally learned a lesson, only to turn around and get schooled again.

 

I think you need to find your "ME". I wish you the best of luck!

 

 

This is a helluva post and a lesson to all young people about marriage and what it is and is not.

[bloggervenus]

You sound just like me a year ago when I really started moving toward my ultimate divorce.

 

I met my X husband in high school. I'd dated a whack-job and was looking for someone safe, secure, and that I didn't feel threatened by. He was attractive, funny, extremely laid-back and loved to play games. Course, he went more into gaming than I expected and because I'm a "join em" type of person, I got into it as well.

 

We both had good careers, two great kids, a house, two cars... a dog. The whole "American Dream" family thing...

 

The problem was, there was no physical spark. We pretty much ignored each other. We never, ever fought, we just avoided conflict. I took care of the responsibilities - paying all the bills, grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning (yeah, I eventually hired a maid), making the doc appointments, etc. He never, ever paid bills.... he didn't easily go grocery shopping. I had to nag him to take the trash out...

 

When we went into MC, the counselor said we had shifted from a equal/equal relationship to a mother/son relationship. No wonder I felt overburdened, under appreciated and unhappy.

 

In the end, the woman I am at 32... is a far cry from the immature 17 year old girl that I was. It took me a few years to figure out what I was missing in my life... and that component... it was ME. There was no me anymore. There was wife... mother... care giver... but no Me. I needed to find me...

 

Course, since I divorced I've not made the best decisions. Go figure. We think we have finally learned a lesson, only to turn around and get schooled again.

 

I think you need to find your "ME". I wish you the best of luck!

 

Thanks for sharing. Are you happy that you got a divorce? Do you ever look back and think, "Maybe we could have worked things out"? Do you feel like you are repeating the same experience with other men? i.e. becoming a caregiver again?

[Neutrino]

Neutrino, to be perfectly honest, my hesitation is not so much based on not wanting to hurt him. It is more based on my fear. The fear that I will never find anyone else as good as him and that I will end up being alone. It may sound selfish but I believe that he will be OK. He is the eternal optimist and the naturally happy person. In the past 12 years I have never seen him be sad for more than 2 days in a row. I know that he will be sad for 6 months but I also know that he will bounce back and I have a feeling that without me and my disapproving looks (I try so hard to not criticize but I know that he reads my emotions from my eyes) he will be even happier. He is an engineer by the way and he definitly can take care of himself financially.

 

Thank you all. It feels so good to talk about these issues and actually see some other people who are going through the same phases.

 

It doesn't sound selfish at all - it sounds human. Especially having immigrated to Europe alone and being a bit "socially challenged" myself - I don't only understand - but share this feeling...

 

Although I have not yet dared to fully face it - there is a chance I'll be in a similar conflict soon. How do you know you made the right desicion ? Only at hind-sight I guess, you are trying to compare the known to the unknown : what you know you will have if you stay, to the unknown you're facing if you leave. This is impossible !!

 

How do you even start making your balance ?

[bloggervenus]

My personal coach says, "don't throw in the towel. Just go and get what you want. Let him be the one who files for divorce"

 

- but how can I get what I want?

- what do you want?

- I want a husband who I admire?

- and what happens then? What does that do for you?

- well it would make me happy. it would make me content

- so if you had a husband who did all the things you want your husband to do now, you would be happy?

- Yes!

- Bull S**t! You would find something else in him to be unhappy about. You would find something else to not admire about him

- OK. So, what do you suggest?

- Well, you have to start creating the feeling you want to create in yourself first.

- what does that mean?

- well, start being the woman who admires her husband. What kind of a woman admires her husband regardless of what happens? Be that woman.

- hmm.. very difficult

- yes, it will take time and it is hard but that is the only way you will grow and learn your lesson. Otherwise you will repeat the same experience with someone else

 

I was starting to think that maybe the lesson here for me is to stand up for what I want and what I like, to take my feelings seriously and to let my heart have a say. Now I am not too sure. Which way is the couragous way?

 

Meanwhile things are not so great at home. My husband is tired of my unhappiness. He said to our MC yesterday that he was starting to hate himself and that is a red flag for him. He said, "If I am so unhappy and she is so unhappy, then what are we doing?"

 

No one can give me an answer I know... I am going to pray now.