Bobita Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 Hi everybody! Recently I've come across this guy...we've been dating for the last year. Very intense, tourmented relationship. Great lovemaking, a lot of thrill, moments of deep connection and understanding, beyond what I've experienced before him. He has had about 7 girlfriends (one long-term, 2 medium-term, 2 short-term and 2 ONS), and he's 29. I'm also 29 and I've had one medium term relationship and one longterm until meeting him. This entire year he never told me he loves me, I never told him I love him. Then we broke up, and a few days after we broke up he made love to an ex (his first love) he hadn't seen for years and after that he hooked up with a girl (21) he had just met. They were "crazy in love" for a week. Then we decided to be together again, he dropped the girl (which became pretty histerical) and told me that he told her that he loves her, in those 6 days thet spent together... and that he had also told the ex that he loves her. He told me this because I asked him specifically. While we were trying to see if we should get back together I asked him if he loves me. His answer was "No". After getting back together, when I asked if he had told the girls the "love" thing and he told me yes, I started laughing. Told him it's funny, cause I was the only one not getting "the treat". His answer was that for him it's difficult to say it if it means something, and very easy to say it when it doesn't... What do you make of that?
carhill Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 His answer was that for him it's difficult to say it if it means something, and very easy to say it when it doesn't... What do you make of that? Bullshyte And, secondarily, why would you wish to be with a man who nonchalantly drops his noodle into both new and old p*ssy after having something supposedly meaningful with you, and then tells you, specifically, that he doesn't love you? This serves only to prove my hypothesis that women don't want a good man, but rather want to change a non-committal jerk into a good man for their own ego. I wish you well in that endeavor
Author Bobita Posted November 1, 2009 Author Posted November 1, 2009 Yeah, maybe... Fact is I had a "good" man (my LTR) and when he got tired of being such a good guy he cheated on me, but that's a different story. About the "jerk": before getting back together he actually told me he loves me. Now we are together, but it's difficult, it's true, he is not so keen on commitment...I don't know if I can trust him. I am very attracted to him because he is the most intelligent and self-reflexive person I've met. I think he actually loves me, but he doesn't like to say it. Why? Because of that, I also omost never say it (I've only told him once that "I love you just a little") Also he constantly refuses to compliment me or show me his affection. Which makes me in retur be also colder towards him.
mushmush Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 Then we broke up, and a few days after we broke up he made love to an ex (his first love)he hadn't seen for years This statement stands out to me as a complete load of rubbish.
BCCA Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 While we were trying to see if we should get back together I asked him if he loves me. His answer was "No". After getting back together... HUH??? He loves some chick he spent six days with, and an ex, but not you after a year...AND you got back together with him? That would have been a super RED FLAG to me, and a sure sign that this was a waste of my time. This serves only to prove my hypothesis that women don't want a good man, but rather want to change a non-committal jerk into a good man for their own ego. Its funny, the guys who do say they love a girl, and stick around to treat them well...they get booted and treated like crap. But here is some bozo going around screwing anything he can, and tells a girl he loves someone hes known for 6 days more than her, after being together a year...and he is a keeper. lmao You live by the douche, you die by the douche...
carhill Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 About the "jerk": before getting back together he actually told me he loves me. Now we are together, but it's difficult, it's true, he is not so keen on commitment...I don't know if I can trust him. As most people in the US 'fell back' an hour last night, I'd like you to take that additional hour to reflect upon this: Before getting together he says things you like to hear. After, things change, and he's 'not so keen on commitment'. Reflect upon that.
Author Bobita Posted November 1, 2009 Author Posted November 1, 2009 "This statement stands out to me as a complete load of rubbish" Hi, there! What do you mean by "complete load of rubbish"? Maybe I should detail a little: this ex was his first love, he was pretty hung up on her, for years...when they tried to make love (his and her first time trying) he was so nervous about it and so crazy about her that he couldn't...well...perform...he was 17 or 18 back then. After many years, and before meeting me he met her again (one year and a half ago) and by that time he had just been left by his long term gf, and was in pain. So, they met, they got some herbs and drinks and tried to "make love" and ...surprise...he couldn't do it, this time probably due to the chemicals. Last year we met and slowly fell in love, but he has been very parsimonious in speaking to me about his feelings (fear of commitment? fear of getting hurt?) After we broke up, that erectile-dysfunction-causing-ex came back into the picture for a couple of weeks and this time he was able to "do" her! Victory! Ego refreshed! And he told me that it was form the "must do" category, making love to her, because it had been haunting him for years, the "failure" and thus he was able to "heal"... WTF? And he said once they did it, she was a complete stranger to him, couldn't wait to leave and call me...which he did...
carhill Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 More oxytocin training..... tell me, do you believe everything this guy says? It might be interesting to get his 'first ex'es' side of the story
boogieboy Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 I am very attracted to him because he is the most intelligent and self-reflexive person I've met. I think he actually loves me, but he doesn't like to say it. Why? . Oh look at that, youre in denial! You REFUSE to believe he doesnt actually love you from all this time, otherwise you'd have to jump ship and start over...and that would hurt too much. But its a challenge! Its possible that he might have an issue with connecting the words with the feeling...as if he said ILY he would fall completely, which he got hurt before and doesnt want to do. BUT...he SAYS that he told his ex's ILY, you dont know if he actually did. Because if he did, then he prolly doesnt actually have that feeling for you. Which made it easy for him to go boink his ex's so quickly. I dont think he loves you at all, he doesnt say it because he cant lie about his real feelings. He's prolly not over his ex yet.
Author Bobita Posted November 1, 2009 Author Posted November 1, 2009 I've been thinking about this: he only told me he loved me when we were apart (my decision to break up). He went back to not saying it once we got back together... I am actually not so keen on hearing it....it only started to mess with my head after having found out that he told them the L word...
Author Bobita Posted November 1, 2009 Author Posted November 1, 2009 Well...maybe it's true and he doesn't love me. It's not a crime...it's only been one year, and we were both after devastating break-ups... I myself, am not sure whether I love him...sometimes I feel I do, sometimes I'm sure I don't... But it confuses me he was able to say this to someone he had just met... I believe everything he says, because since I've met him he only lied maybe twice or three times to me...which he eventually confessed.. For him the most important thing is communicating, and we do this, no matter what the subject... Even the two episodes: he told me, I didn't "discover"...and after we got back together, he didn't make love to me until he got all his STD tests, although he had used a condom on both occasions....but well, he had performed oral on them, so he could still have got something and he wanted to protect me. So, yes, I believe everything he says. But I don't trust him, in the sense that I don't feel like we could "build" a future. But, somehow, I'm stuck on him...
carhill Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) Tell me the longest period you've been completely alone. Alone is defined by not having a cohabitation, boyfriend, or active romantic prospect or interest. Since he's 29 and has had five relationships besides yours, I can surmise that he's never or rarely been alone. His seeking out an old ex and a new prospect immediately upon your break-up supports this. He likely had prospects lined up all along. Just an educated instinct, being a 50 year old man. I believe everything he says, because since I've met him he only lied maybe twice or three times to me...which he eventually confessed.. Did the lies date from before you started having sex or occur after? Edited November 1, 2009 by carhill
Author Bobita Posted November 1, 2009 Author Posted November 1, 2009 "Tell me the longest period you've been completely alone. Alone is defined by not having a cohabitation, boyfriend, or active romantic prospect or interest. Since he's 29 and has had five relationships besides yours, I can surmise that he's never or rarely been alone. His seeking out an old ex and a new prospect immediately upon your break-up supports this. He likely had prospects lined up all along. Just an educated instinct, being a 50 year old man." Thanks for replying! The longest period I've been completely alone: two weeks. The longest period he's been completely alone: 7 months (after he broke up with his long term gf). He didn't seek out the old ex, she called him and invited him for a joint, and he is not the type that "lines up" prospects...just the type that gets close to people really fast and doesnt' miss oportunities of knowing new people. While I only get intimate when I meet someone of value to me, he would get intimate also with mediocre women, around which he "builds" a personal fairy tale... "Did the lies date from before you started having sex or occur after?" What do you mean by "the lies"? the 2 or 3 things he admitted he was not honest about? Everything between us started after we had sex, since we had sex for the first time 10 hours after we had met. And he told me all about him and his history with women from the very first days...and when I say everything I really believe he didn't left anything important out...he even confessed to having cheated on his gf in the beginnings of their relationship...and that he never did it again after that, because he had seen the damage that he had caused.
Author Bobita Posted November 1, 2009 Author Posted November 1, 2009 Arghhhh... I'm very attached to this guy, although I can see some of the red flags... He makes me feel alive. But he is also a very difficult person to live around, very demanding, quite cold and indifferent when he feels his "freedom" is at stake...
carhill Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 Arghhhh... I'm very attached to this guy, although I can see some of the red flags... He makes me feel alive. But he is also a very difficult person to live around, very demanding, quite cold and indifferent when he feels his "freedom" is at stake... Yup, I know some guys like that and invariably they have a number of women chasing after them. At my age, IME, such men make lousy friends so I mostly avoid them. There's a lot of surface chatter but not much depth, meaning I know I couldn't count of them to have my back as a friend. IMO, you should take a long look at what you really mean by 'feeling alive'. I think a conversation with the 'long-term' ex would be revealing. I wish I could go back 10 years and have that conversation with my stbx's second husband, who I met. I'm sure, in retrospect, what he would reveal wouldn't surprise me at all. BTW, you called his statements 'lies'. I merely repeated the verbiage. Thanks for clarifying the sex part. That's revealing as well. IME, nothing is simple nor easy when it comes to relationships. Lastly, IMO, you will never gain perspective on this without alone time. You broke up with him, ostensibly for good reasons. Make them stick.
Author Bobita Posted November 1, 2009 Author Posted November 1, 2009 What does the sex part clarify? I broke up with him because I felt we couldn't make it as a couple, too much fighting and him having this adveturous life while I enjoy a more stable lifestyle... I went back because I missed him and because it pissed me bad to find out he had shagged that ex. I'm going to IC to find out what's wrong with me, but it really goes slowly... How can you tell someone loves you, actually? It took my ex-bf 8 months to say it, but after having said it he stuck to it for many years...till he cheated on me.
carhill Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 What does the sex part clarify? Your brain chemistry changes when you have meaningful sex and orgasms. It creates emotions of attachment. Perfectly normal. Every word and action after is augmented and supported by this attachment. It is one of the main reasons men will try to have sex with a woman as soon as possible. How can you tell someone loves you, actually? By the consistency of loving action. This is generally modeled by parents and augmented by close non-sexual friendships. The reality that you're asking the question gives me pause and concern. I imagine being cheated on has affected you in some way and colors your perspective of the current dynamic. Tell me, do you think all men are like your ex-BF? If a man is polyamorous or unfaithful, that validates his destiny in your eyes? IMO, in order to help and support, we need to understand. What do you want, right now?
mushmush Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) "This statement stands out to me as a complete load of rubbish" Hi, there! What do you mean by "complete load of rubbish"? Maybe I should detail a little: this ex was his first love, he was pretty hung up on her, for years...when they tried to make love (his and her first time trying) he was so nervous about it and so crazy about her that he couldn't...well...perform...he was 17 or 18 back then. After many years, and before meeting me he met her again (one year and a half ago) and by that time he had just been left by his long term gf, and was in pain. So, they met, they got some herbs and drinks and tried to "make love" and ...surprise...he couldn't do it, this time probably due to the chemicals. Last year we met and slowly fell in love, but he has been very parsimonious in speaking to me about his feelings (fear of commitment? fear of getting hurt?) After we broke up, that erectile-dysfunction-causing-ex came back into the picture for a couple of weeks and this time he was able to "do" her! Victory! Ego refreshed! And he told me that it was form the "must do" category, making love to her, because it had been haunting him for years, the "failure" and thus he was able to "heal"... WTF? And he said once they did it, she was a complete stranger to him, couldn't wait to leave and call me...which he did... What I meant was it is rarely a co-incident that an ex calls and comes back into a mans life the very moment he is single... Most likely they had been been in contact with each other a while before they hooked up. Victory! Ego refreshed! = He used her for sex.. You broke up with this guy for solid reasons. Your reasons for getting back together are really very poor. I will agree with Carhill here, he always gives solid advice. You need to spend some time to yourself to gain a solid perspective on things.. Edited November 1, 2009 by mushmush
Author Bobita Posted November 1, 2009 Author Posted November 1, 2009 "It is one of the main reasons men will try to have sex with a woman as soon as possible" I understand...I must state, though, that before having sex he asked me many times if I really wanted that, if I was ready etc...I said yes every time, because at that moment I just wanted to have sex with him, and had no plans concerning the future...in time...things changed and now I wonder if we could have a chance... "By the consistency of loving action. This is generally modeled by parents and augmented by close non-sexual friendships. The reality that you're asking the question gives me pause and concern." I used to think I knew what it means to be loved, because this was my ex-bf...very consistent in showing his affection towards me. But then he cheated and left...and even though he realised it was a mistake and wants me back, I no longer trust him. So yes, this has affected my ability to trust, a lot. When I met this guy I said to myselfa something like..."WTF, last time I had a "good" guy and he cheated, I might as well try a "bad" guy, at least I'll have a thrill" which was actually true...I really enjoyed the ride. The problem is that now I need more than just thrill. I don't generalise, I think there are men that cheat once and don't do it again, that there are serial cheaters and I also think that there are men that don't cheat at all... I would rather think the best of the last cathegory... "IMO, in order to help and support, we need to understand. What do you want, right now?" Sorry if my messages are confusing, that is because I'm like that right now: confused! I don't know what I want... I would like to hav back what I had with my ex-bf before he cheated, but it's not possible...I would like to love and be loved by this new guy, but to also feel "safe" around him...I'm not able to break-up with him, but I'm afraid he will hurt me, even unintentionally....I feel he still has some "living" and growing up to do...
Author Bobita Posted November 1, 2009 Author Posted November 1, 2009 "What I meant was it is rarely a co-incident that an ex calls and comes back into a mans life the very moment he is single... Most likely they had been been in contact with each other a while before they hooked up." They keep in touch via email, he showed me the messages they were exchanging, even before breaking up...The ex doesn't have feelings for him...on her part it was more of a mercy-sex, enabled by chemicals "You broke up with this guy for solid reasons. Your reasons for getting back together are really very poor." My main reason for going back is that .... I might love him.
carhill Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 OP, missed the part about the IC. Please update us with your progress. I'm especially interested about your motivation for returning to him upon his dalliances with his ex in light of your experience with your past BF. I think that would be a good topic to work through with a counselor. BTW, we had 14 months of MC and I learned a lot about my own unhealthy motivations and perspectives. Hope that experience being shared helps
Author Bobita Posted November 1, 2009 Author Posted November 1, 2009 I have thought of time alone...but that would mean loosing him...so then what would I have to sort out? I would already have lost him... I know he might not be right for me....but the problem is that right now I want him. And I don't know how to "handle" this guy... Thanks so much for your advice! I know that you probably detest the "type of guy", because usually I also don't like this kind of behaviour....but when there are feelings involved, it's different. And there's so much more to him...I've never met anyone as bright as him, that can speak about omost ANYTHING, and have personal and intelligent opinions in omost any matter, that can argue and demonstrate with logical arguments omost anything... I myself, am not someone easy to impress...
carhill Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 OP, as you have apparently identified what you want, to have the intimacy and love you experienced with your prior BF before he was unfaithful, can you embrace the possibility that such a dynamic can exist and independently of any one person currently in your life? IOW, accept what is in the here and now and also know that your 'ideal' does exist and is valuable? IMO, these two dynamics are interwoven and form an essential part of the one's psychology of relationships. 'Today might suck but, you know, I deserve 'xxx' and I'm not going to let today make me settle for any less'
Author Bobita Posted November 1, 2009 Author Posted November 1, 2009 OP, missed the part about the IC. Please update us with your progress. I'm especially interested about your motivation for returning to him upon his dalliances with his ex in light of your experience with your past BF. I think that would be a good topic to work through with a counselor. We talked a little about that ... but my IC focuses mainly on my childhood....which sometimes pisses me off...It appears that I'm a sad, angry and disfunctional person... And I must "live" my anger and sadness in order to become functional. But I had no luck up to now in doing that... My motivation has something to do with .... the way I function: "I don't live my sadness and anger because I don't want to be well....I don't want to be well because then I would get bored...I am afraid of being bored because then I would stop doing things...If I would stop doing things I might as well stop existing..." So, he probably keeps me from getting bored and lonely...I don't know. But I know for sure that things are deeper than that ... I don't just need him for sex and to keep me from getting bored ...I've grown attached to him, I really like him, I want him in my life...
mushmush Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 "I went back because I missed him and because it pissed me bad to find out he had shagged that ex." Thats all I was commenting on. I'm sure you do have feelings for him, so I wish you all the best. If you spent time alone and you lost him, wouldn't that also mean that he has lost you as well? Don't you think he would not want to loose you? Sometimes the best things are worth waiting and showing a little bit of patience for. From the sounds of things it sounds like you have a heart of gold and are worth waiting for.
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