Lizzie60 Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 Hum.. I read the whole thread with interest.. SoG.. you are a very well balanced young (not sure about your age) woman. You are in a very delicate situation. If the A comes to light, you might lose your job and a whole lot more (reputation, etc.) but I know it's easier said than done (to leave the A, especially in your situation). It's certainly not easy. If I were you, I would have a serious discussion. From what I've read.. you are satisfied with the A being just an A.. but you're scared he might want more? right? Tell him you need more time if he brings the subject again.. tell him that, for now, you are more than satisfied.. What scares me sometimes, is the lust, the passion is sooo freaken hot because it is an affair, but once it's out in the open... then what.. his family is broken, he is unhappy about making his W and kids miserable.. in his case, it could be devastating for his business... etc..etc... Try to reason him.. if you're satisfied with your life and most of all, try to 'buy time'... My MM from work, once got depressed around the Holidays, wanting to leave W and kids, cause he couldn't support to be away from me.. blablabla.. but I had to tell him that if he would do that... it would be over between us.. I don't want him to leave his family.. period. Be firm.. and strong.. you know what you want.. hold on to your convictinos.. good luck!
jj33 Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 Greate post Lizzie. Shades if you are happy as Lizzie said, then I would totally agree with her put your cards on the table to tell him this is it dont break up your marriage (and also get your comp straightened out you arent his wife and if you are giving that much to the business you need to be compensated properly)
torranceshipman Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 No Lizzie, I think she actually wants him to leave, now... Great halloween avatar btw
Author ShadesOfGrey Posted October 31, 2009 Author Posted October 31, 2009 He has been asking frequently what I am thinking about while we are just cuddling together. Gentle but insistent. Because I could only see him for an hour or so last night, I told him we should talk when we have the opportunity for more time to discuss everything. One of the things he said was that he was afraid I would come back from my trip and not want to be with him anymore-maybe one of the previous replies was onto something?? I didn't give him any cause for concern, unless he feared I might want to live there on a more full time basis...which wouldn't be far from the truth, but it's thousands of miles from here and not likely. JJ, the first thing I want to address is your recommendation I insist on a severance package. I AM "bouncing on the waves". It scares me to no end. I'm not at all sure how to bring it up! I wish I had known that I would be so successful in this position...I would have set everything up from the beginning-we were actually involved before I began to work for him. I fear I'm really far more naive that I ever dreamt possible. I don't know how to go about doing this...I feel stupid for admitting this!
Author ShadesOfGrey Posted October 31, 2009 Author Posted October 31, 2009 Oh, regarding him leaving... Let me clarify; I don't want to be the one to tell him to leave...at all. I don't want him to leave FOR me. I want him to leave only if the M is not repairable. He has said all the usual stuff about snatching me up forever and ever if he had met me before he was married, blah blah blah, says he never wants to be without me. BUT...he keeps putting out these feelers, it seems. I don't want his decision to be dependent on my answers, but I wonder if that is unfair to withhold honest and open communication, unfair to him, to me, to us anyway. Ugh I am not used to feeling so conflicted.
torranceshipman Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 The best solution is to be 100% honest with him about how you feel and what you want. The power balance here seems all wrong: he's your boss; you're hesitant to speak up about what you want; you're conflicted; you seem to be treading on eggshells a little bit when it comes to bringing up work, etc. That's not right...that needs to be sorted out. I think it sounds like you really want something more serious, so there is no point wondering and suffering - put your cards on the table and see if he feels the same - if you get waffly answers or a 'i'll never leave my W', or a look of panic, etc, you know it's time to emotionally retreat from the situation...
jj33 Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 But even before you discuss the future, discuss your compensation. Its hard to discuss getting the money but you must or else you must look for another job. You can not be bouncing on the waves. You need to sit down with him. At work. This is not pillow talk. Tell him that you love working with him and the company but that you realize that there are complicating factors and that you need to have either equity or a severance package in place in case things get complicated in the future. He will know exactly what you mean. If he says but I love you and I want to be with you always you can say that is fine, and I want that too but I am so in love with you that I have been naive. There are so many unknowns and commerically if I were looking at this totally objectively, this is fair and necessary. if he says no, or stalls you, you MUST start looking for a new position. It may not materialize overnight, but you MUST put feelers out. If you end up married and live happily ever after, you can quit your new position. But if you dont, you will thank yourself. Employment is at will in most circumstances. And the idea of suing him for harrassment or discrimination is silly. It is a consensual affair and would ruin you professoinally. It doesnt have to be confrontational. It will show him that you are serious about yourself and your future. What if he starts to leave and says its tricky having you working there during the divorce? (not likely but possible) What if he starts waffling and you want to leave or he wants you to leave? There are no guarantees with anything, but if you werent in love with him, you would have pushed for these things all along.
Author ShadesOfGrey Posted November 3, 2009 Author Posted November 3, 2009 MM and I spent several hours together last night. I told him how anxious I am at times. I told him how I felt scared that I could lose him, my job and my reputation in one fell swoop. MM said he had been thinking about that while I was away on my trip, thinking I must feel my life is pretty precarious as a result of this A. He asked me what he thought we should do to establish a bit of financial security for me. I brought up a severance package and he said he could never let me go...he said he wants to spend the rest of his life with me and never wants to be without me. He mentioned the possibility of making me partner...that seems to be wrought with issues, too! We agreed to talk more about it and come to a good arrangement. Obviously, I need to figure out what my options are, and which ones are good options. I don't feel I can just walk into an attorney's office and tell them what is going on to find out how to protect myself. I can't use attorneys I know-they are either friends of mine or my family's. Both MM and I have a public reputation to uphold...and I just don't trust anyone else with info about our relationship. By the same token, I'm finding it tough to get good advice without giving details. It seems like a severance package would be the most beneficial and the least problematic...but not the most lucrative option. While money means little to me, I DO recognize the need to protect myself while working for MM.
fooled once Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Against my better judgment, I'm replying. Fooled, while I have nothing against you, I have to say I'm not sure your points are so solid. It almost sounds like you have something against me. But, because you don't know me, I'm sure I am mistaken "But you don't "have" him - he is married." I DO have him, I have in my life, a part of my daily being. W ALSO has him in her life, a part of her daily being. Neither of us "have" him exclusively, nor is he property to be owned. "Also realize, you don't really KNOW him. You know parts of him; that's it." Ahem...apparently his wife doesn't really KNOW him, by your definition, either. She only knows parts of him as well. She clearly doesn't know the part of him that is in love with me, that makes love to me, that nurtures and cares for me. I don't know the part of him that loves his W. Neither of us know him 100%, obviously. "You work for him. You don't live with him. You are his employee. You are his mistress." Yeah. I said that already. Thanks for the reminder though, nice in case I forgot "He needs to figure it out without you there coaching him, being his sounding board, etc." Where did you get from my posts that I am in any way coaching him?? I have to give credit where it is due...LS is a wealth of information and a great way to gain new perspective. I suppose every forum has its occasional bit of not-so-helpful advice. Thanks for trying to help though, Fooled Yeah, and you are here why? Because you got it all figured out? How this man just needs you and wants you and can't be without you and.... he remains married to his wife; the woman who shares his name, his bed, his REAL life; not the fantasty world you have in your bedroom. It is always amazing how some OW bring out the whole people aren't property bullcrap when it is called to their attention that these men 'belong' to someone else. Go ahead and believe what you need to believe. If you believe his wife doesn't know him, and of course, you know him better than her, believe it. She doesn't know he is a liar. She doesn't know he is a cheater. She doesn't know that he doesn't even know how to spell the word respect. If he did, he would treat the woman he married with respect and NOT be boinking the office help. He would let his wife go so he can continue his affair with you. You will continue to be in awe of how this big wonderful business man who picked you to be the latest one he cheated on his wife with .... or were you told you are the one and only mistress? If he really loves you with his every breath, he should end his marriage so he can respect his wife and maybe show you a little respect. But I guess it is more fun and exciting to have those stolen moments, those secret meetings, the glances to each other and hoping noone can see the amazing chemistry you two have. Because you two know each other like no other......... Or that could be another thread I read earlier today or the one from yesterday or the one from last week. Sometimes, they all run together. I think jj's suggestion of a severance package is excellent. Because he can fire you at anytime and all you will have is his secret to use as ammunition should that happen. Better to protect yourself. Maybe you could go to the county 3 states over and see if you can find an attorney there who doesn't know the two of you since you are both so well known public figures??? Or you can just sit back and continue the affair, because that is easier than either of you being straight forward and having a relationship above board and respectfully. As a fOW, I have heard all the same lies and excuses you have probably been told. As a member here, I can attest that in many ways, your story is no different than any other one on here. I guess you are so defensive because you know deep in your heart that what you are doing is wrong. So good luck to ya. Just don't be surprised when the wife finds out and she comes at you with both barrells. Then again, she may gratefully had you the cheating liar....never know!
Author ShadesOfGrey Posted November 3, 2009 Author Posted November 3, 2009 Fooled, I'm curious about something. Do you think you are helping me? Do you think your advice is sound?? Clearly, and from your own admission, you can't keep one thread from another. If, in your eyes, I am not an individual, posting a request for HELP regarding MY life, please, stop replying to me. I am not you. I am not every OW.
NoIDidn't Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 I am shocked at how fast wondering about his intense speech before a trip morphed into being afraid to talk to a lawyer to protect yourself legally! I've always thought that at lot of what happens in affairs only happens in the mind of one of the APs, and is just projected onto the other. So far, I haven't seen anything to make me think that he is even considering a divorce. Don't get me wrong, I think you should talk to an attorney because if he compensates you for basically being scared of being discovered to be his mistress and his W finds out about it...you are going to need a new job. Don't worry about talking to an attorney, they are supposed to keep everything confidential. If you find iout that they didn't, you can sue them. This situation really stinks. It really looks like you are just looking for financial security all because you signed up to be his mistress and knew the risks to your reputation going in. If he pays you, its my opinion that it is nothing more than hush money. He has to know legally that compensating you extra to buffer you against the possibility of being found out is going to shoot him in the @$$. Paying you off will almost make it impossible for him to consider a future with you. Everyone working with you will immediately know how you got your position (if they don't already know, people always know the work affairs even though the people in them swear they don't), and will not be very happy about it in the least bit.
torranceshipman Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 ShadesofGrey, I would be slightly wary of the partnership offer, as it sounds complicated and like it'd take a long time to work out. You need something that can materialize almost immediately, with conditions that you can easily research and understand how they are applicable to you. This will not involve complex legal arrangements and can be effected almost immediately. A bad situation is to allow the MM to stall over a) personal life promises and b) professional promises. It might be that you two end up married, who knows, but you need to make provision for the opposite scenario occuring, and months of him speculating over 'maybe a partnership but it takes time to figure out because of the lawyer, etc' is NOT what you need. You need something concrete...action to be taken. There is nothing to stop basic provisions being put in place for you now, and for you to then 'upgrade' to a partnership further down the road when things are more settled. I am just seeing red flags here, for some reason. Mainly over his comment about he couldn't let you go when you talked about severance. That kind of suggests that if he loses you from the work environment, he loses you, because he has compartmentalized you to 'work life' and not to any other part (not as the main event anyway). It might be that he sees you as existing as this lovely part of his life, played out at work. Remove the work scenario and he has nowhere for you to go-not in the way he compartmentalizes these things. Does that make sense?
Author ShadesOfGrey Posted November 3, 2009 Author Posted November 3, 2009 I am shocked at how fast wondering about his intense speech before a trip morphed into being afraid to talk to a lawyer to protect yourself legally! I've always thought that at lot of what happens in affairs only happens in the mind of one of the APs, and is just projected onto the other. So far, I haven't seen anything to make me think that he is even considering a divorce. Don't get me wrong, I think you should talk to an attorney because if he compensates you for basically being scared of being discovered to be his mistress and his W finds out about it...you are going to need a new job. Don't worry about talking to an attorney, they are supposed to keep everything confidential. If you find iout that they didn't, you can sue them. This situation really stinks. It really looks like you are just looking for financial security all because you signed up to be his mistress and knew the risks to your reputation going in. If he pays you, its my opinion that it is nothing more than hush money. He has to know legally that compensating you extra to buffer you against the possibility of being found out is going to shoot him in the @$$. Paying you off will almost make it impossible for him to consider a future with you. Everyone working with you will immediately know how you got your position (if they don't already know, people always know the work affairs even though the people in them swear they don't), and will not be very happy about it in the least bit. The situation DOES stink. I can agree with you on that. We all have the right to our own opinions...but *I* am the one who has brought him money. So, if you want to call a severance package or a partnership to reward my success in this position "hush money", be my guest. I don't see it as such. I have grown his business 400% in less than a year. I'm not being "paid off" by being compensated for busting my ass for him as if he were my H...
Author ShadesOfGrey Posted November 3, 2009 Author Posted November 3, 2009 Thank you for your reply Torrance. I see red flags, too, of course. I think MM and I finding ourselves in this situation is a red flag for both of us. Our A began before I started working for him, and I actually don't see him at work in the traditional sense. I work from home, so the only time I see him "at work" is if he comes by during the day to see me. He has given me nearly full control of the business operations, so most of our time together is personal and not professional. I plan to tell him that I want a severance package. If he plans to never be without me in his life, that's great! But...if things occur that we don't forsee (as is often the case in life) I need to be protected. If he were to recommit to his marriage, a partnership will be MUCH more complicated than a straight severance package. Add to that the emotions both of us would feel, and I forsee a hot mess if we went down that road. If I had known now what I know...would I have gone to work for him? Probably not. I was foolish, and naive. But...what is done is done and now all I can do is minimize my financial risk.
jj33 Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Your personal relationship with this man doesnt matter in terms of being in a partnership but you MUST get legal advice. Go to a good family lawyer (divorce) there must be lawyers you dont know who specialize in this field and get their advice. If you go into partnership with him, or have shares in the company then if he divorces and you are named as a respondent, will that impact you in your state? I dont know how that would work but you need good advice. Severance is the best option but if he is saying he will never let you go, then that is a meaningless statement. He may mean it, but it doesnt put money in your wallet. If he wont agree to a severance package, (one year including bonus may make up for the lack of a partnership interest only you will know that) then you MUST look for another job. You may not want to, but if he wants to spend the rest of his life with you, then he needs to get a divorce. Its not complicated. He doesnt get to spend the rest of his life with you by working and sleeping with you while he is married to someone else. Unless of course you let him...
NoIDidn't Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 The situation DOES stink. I can agree with you on that. We all have the right to our own opinions...but *I* am the one who has brought him money. So, if you want to call a severance package or a partnership to reward my success in this position "hush money", be my guest. I don't see it as such. I have grown his business 400% in less than a year. I'm not being "paid off" by being compensated for busting my ass for him as if he were my H... I am sorry that you took offense to my "hush money" opinion. It is mine and I stand by it. You may feel like you busted your a## for him as if he were your H, but the truth is that he is not. The law says that you were just doing your job, no one hires someone that they don't think will make them money. His W finding out about this and the others on the job that likely already know will be a a good position to sue the heck out of him knowing that you were his mistress. And his W would be in a good position to make sure that you have to give the money back to her in some capacity and she could possibly prove that you didn't earn it on your own merits but because you were her husband's OW. I'm certainly not trying to offend you here. I think you need to speak to a lawyer. Put the concerns about them judging you aside. If you feel you have earned what he is offering you, you need to protect it from his W being able to take it from you. I am just of the mind that if he does pay you, he will feel that he has bought you in your current position and that you should expect nothing more from him than what he was already giving you. That's why I called it "hush money". Once the A is over, if it ends, he will expect you to keep it quiet as you were well compensated. If the A continues, he will expect you to stay "in your place" because you were well compensated. That's all I'm saying.
RedDevil66 Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Listen, why ask for any package. If you grew his biz 400% you should be able to start your own business and not have to depend on this "sugar daddy" Stick around LS long enough and you'll see about 100 other cheaters with their cheaters who give them the same lines of bull. You're story is no different than any other cheater. Same plot, different names.
Recommended Posts