Peaceful Guy Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 you struggle with life's tough questions just like the rest of us. please respond.
Peaceful Guy Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 well, i believe in you. you can email me if you like.
Peaceful Guy Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 i would like to communicate with you out of the view of the public so that i can speak freely. thank you.
Peaceful Guy Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 er, sorry bout that guys, my friend's a real jokester!
627 Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 No kidding. So evolution existed before life existed? Interesting. So something must have created it. Or are you saying there are things that can exist but were never actually created. the argument that life cannot be created on its own so something must have created it contradicts itself on its own. humans cannot have been made alone, so a superbeing capable of creation and reading the minds of 7 billion people at once and knowing how many hair is on the heads of everyone and can time travel predict the future and create other dimensions, created these humans but no one created him and that makes sense but for humans to just be created on their own does not make sense
Toki Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 Ah yes, and the very basic molecules involved in creating life have actually been redone within a laboratory. So it's further proof that a god might not have necessarily been directly involved in our creation. I think the biggest flaw in human thinking, is thinking god (if it exists at all) is human; its an awfully big universe, and humanity gets no more favors to it than anything else out there, it has lived through it's shares of disasters (think Toba, which wiped out all but 1% of the Human Population, causing many a genetic maladies) and likely it will see more epic disasters, that if they don't outright destroy us, will severely reduce us. Yet, if Humanity ends, the Universe won't end with it.
Peaceful Guy Posted October 31, 2009 Posted October 31, 2009 Ah yes, and the very basic molecules involved in creating life have actually been redone within a laboratory. So it's further proof that a god might not have necessarily been directly involved in our creation. I think the biggest flaw in human thinking, is thinking god (if it exists at all) is human; its an awfully big universe, and humanity gets no more favors to it than anything else out there, it has lived through it's shares of disasters (think Toba, which wiped out all but 1% of the Human Population, causing many a genetic maladies) and likely it will see more epic disasters, that if they don't outright destroy us, will severely reduce us. Yet, if Humanity ends, the Universe won't end with it. our physical form isn't what makes us human
quankanne Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) This is where I also have to furrow my brow a bit. So many people say they've had personal encounters, but I also ask why people don't consider the possibility that these counters are potentially hallucinations/confirmation biases/potential scenarios describable through other possibilities/etc. What was your encounter? believe it or not, I'm really more of a skeptic than y'all realize, and "personal encounters" with the supernatural are more than a little bit suspect IMO. Too woo-woo for my liking. That said, I felt Christ's presence at a very rough patch in my life, and when it was least expected: When we were about to bury my mother. I've believed in him all my life, and have been content in this relationship, but it was an unexpected event (basically a presence, a bearhug and an assurance that my mother wasn't the only one who loved me beyond life, but that HE does, too). I'll have to find an old post with a better description of what transpired that morning, feeling a bit funky to sit at the computer much longer! I guess for a believer, it's not anything unusual to hear that he'd give this kind of assurance, but for me, it was totally unexpected because I've always felt my strength of faith was enough for me. I guess I needed his words at that moment more than I realized or something. and no, it wasn't a hallucination – as I've said before, I'm more of a skeptic than not … my mom would laugh and call me "Tomasa" because I questioned everything Edited November 1, 2009 by quankanne
D-Lish Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 As a hardcore atheist, I simply want to state a few opinions and raise these questions: Opinions: 1. I am okay with anyone's religious belief as long as it is not imposed on me, and as long as I am not discriminated based on my beliefs. I also extend the same concept to others. 2. I believe science and logic is the only way to examine the universe -- any "mystery" or "enigma" is simply something we do not yet know. 3. Dangerous opinion, but here goes: I feel that those who are not atheist simply do not understand all the arguments in favor. 4. I believe we can explain everything (and I do mean everything) without the need for a God or external force -- I am very much against the "God of the gaps" argument. And so, my questions: 1. If you are indeed a God-believer, why are you? 2. If you are religious and yet still understand all points in favor of atheism, why do you still choose theism? Wow! Your views caught me off guard - you being from Texas and all! Can't you get shot for such an opinion? I, like you, am an atheist. I have been for as long as I can remember. As soon as I was old enough to question things- I ceased to believe in the notion of god. I believe, in part- that it comes from being comfortable with gaps. I am content being curious without needing to know everything. It's like waiting for the ending of a really good book while enjoying the mystery along the way. Someone (I forget who) made a comment on here the other day- the tone being almost accusatory- that they didn't want the opinion of a "Darwinist"- intimating that evolution is just a lightweight hypothesis. It still blows my mind that there are actually people out there that really deny evolution. This speaks to your theory that people just deny without doing any research. I do think that someone with an understanding of Geology and Anthropology would have a very hard time denying the findings. I think there is a modern marriage between science and religion. There are those who consider themselves spiritual without accepting antiquated doctrine. There are also those that consider themselves followers of science that have a belief of something they cannot qualify or quantify. What it comes down to for me is ~ if you are going to slap a label on yourself, just make sure you are educated about it. Research all sides, all aspects, all possibilities. I have a lot of respect for people that are willing to explore they could be wrong - regardless of their affiliation.
Toki Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 our physical form isn't what makes us human I'm going to refute that assertion, based on the fact that I've never had a conversation with a non-human that claimed itself as acting "human" come to think of it, I've never had a conversation with any creature, except another human. So, it's a bit of a daft argument. Unless you're some kind of fish-lizard?
627 Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 in terms of feelings and faith I just want to say, there will be people from all religions telling you they have these feelings and that strong faith, and they will be meaning it the greeks went through the trouble of building the great colosus in the inlands of rhodes for their god Helios, it took like 20 years to build and around 50 million dollars cost in today's money. great sacrifices, with great faith, it did not make them any more right I've talked to people from many religions, they all have the same level of faith, they are ready to die proving it, and they do die proving it does that make it any more real?
Peaceful Guy Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 I'm going to refute that assertion, based on the fact that I've never had a conversation with a non-human that claimed itself as acting "human" come to think of it, I've never had a conversation with any creature, except another human. So, it's a bit of a daft argument. Unless you're some kind of fish-lizard? just cause you don't get doesn't mean its not true!
Peaceful Guy Posted November 1, 2009 Posted November 1, 2009 all you logical computer brains need to realize that!
Author Vertex Posted November 1, 2009 Author Posted November 1, 2009 I am pretty sure Peaceful Guy is just trolling. Wow! Your views caught me off guard - you being from Texas and all! Can't you get shot for such an opinion? I'm actually not from Texas -- just living here for the moment What it comes down to for me is ~ if you are going to slap a label on yourself, just make sure you are educated about it. Research all sides, all aspects, all possibilities. I have a lot of respect for people that are willing to explore they could be wrong - regardless of their affiliation. Agreed 100%
Peaceful Guy Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 I am pretty sure Peaceful Guy is just trolling.
burning 4 revenge Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 I wasn't referring to you, but you'll do. I think you should be clear about your terms. You might be atheist, but there are many atheists who wouldn't necessarily want to be linked with someone who confuses atheism with being anti-religion. If you want to argue against God, that's one thing. That doesn't necessarily rule out religion. If you want to argue against religion, that's something else. It doesn't necessarily rule out God. The idea of God doesn't have to exist for people to behave in the way you describe. Nazism and Communism were both atheistic, and were both arguably more destructive than Hinduism or Buddhism ever was. While, in the absence of God, Christianity is pretty irrational, the majority of Christians are nevertheless peace-loving, generous, compassionate people. Same thing with Muslims. The ones who aren't would be what they are with or without a religion to use as an excuse. If you just don't like the idea that they believe in a God anyway, regardless of how they behave, then how is this your post essentially any different from one a Bible thumper might start? Are you spontaneously preaching? Are you trying to convert? It seems that you must be. And like you, I get annoyed when people preach to me or try to convert me to their way of thinking. I'm waiting for a supposed atheist to have a novel thought or a new way of looking at the subject. It's always the same: "people who believe in God often do bad things in the name of God" and "God doesn't exist". That's fine. But keep in mind most thinking people, the ones you'd like to engage, have already come to terms with those ideas by the time they've left high school. Whoa what a great post. Occasionally you can even find brilliant dialog onLS
Citizen Erased Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 Whoa what a great post. Occasionally you can even find brilliant dialog onLS All coming from the one source.
burning 4 revenge Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 All coming from the one source. There was so much conveyed there that there is nothing to add to it Just the hope that others read it
Toki Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 But playing the Devil's Advocate is so much more fun.
disgracian Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 I'm waiting for a supposed atheist to have a novel thought or a new way of looking at the subject. It's always the same: "people who believe in God often do bad things in the name of God" and "God doesn't exist". What do you mean by "supposed" (emphasis mine)? Is that supposed to be some sort of slur, or were you trying to be clever? I don't see the point. That's fine. But keep in mind most thinking people, the ones you'd like to engage, have already come to terms with those ideas by the time they've left high school. So you can pretend that sound arguments from the other camp don't exist. Well done. I can do that too. Here goes: I'm waiting for a supposed theist to have a novel thought or a new idea on the subject. It's always the same: "You can't be moral without god" or "There are no atheists in foxeholes" or "Jesus is the way, the truth and the light", or "If evolution is true, how did everything get here?" That's fine, but bear in mind that most thinking people, have already come to term with those ideas by the time they've left high school. Did I do a good job at trivialising the opposition? Did I meet your standards for condescention based on wilful ignorance? Cheers, D.
Taramere Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 If I told you I had a personal experience with the Flying Spaghetti Monster, what would you say to that? I would believe you. The notion of some air-borne, multi-tentacled monstrosity imposing completely random decisions about people's fate doesn't seem unreasonable. Not when you consider what a virus often looks like underneath the microscope. Besides which, so many people have talked about the Flying Spaghetti Monster on these boards that I'm starting to think there must be something in it.
Author Vertex Posted November 2, 2009 Author Posted November 2, 2009 I would believe you. The notion of some air-borne, multi-tentacled monstrosity imposing completely random decisions about people's fate doesn't seem unreasonable. Not when you consider what a virus often looks like underneath the microscope. Besides which, so many people have talked about the Flying Spaghetti Monster on these boards that I'm starting to think there must be something in it. For one thing, the laws of physics hold true in all cases, and so we can't have a God going around imposing "random" (which would have actually not be random at all but deterministic) decisions to bring about change. My point though was that personal "experiences" don't carry any water. They're inconsistent, personalized, untestable, provide no proof, and are usually explainable through natural emotional functions/brain chemistry coupled with social conditioning (notice how many people have these experiences in near-death ). As we're piling on more and more evidence, God is being shoved out of the picture. Even given what we know today, especially concerning quantum mechanics, the notion of there being a God is incredibly illogical and unnecessary.
627 Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 one small specific question do you guys really believe in "treat as you want to be treated?" stuff that christianity teaches? I used to, I found that the nicer you treat people, the more they treat you liek crap oh and do you also believe that masturbation is an evil sin?
FleshNBones Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 If I told you I had a personal experience with the Flying Spaghetti Monster, what would you say to that?The flying spaghetti monster isn't logic. It is an insult. There are people who try to describe genuine experiences. Whether or not you believe them doesn't matter. Don't try to pass off something you know is false because we aren't trying to decieve you. Don't think I don't know why you are here. You seem to think religious people are really unconverted athiests. I'm not trying to convert you, but you are trying to convert me as well as others to athiesm.
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