bentnotbroken Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 My apologies:oit's been a particularly rough few days. Babies are a blessing that should be cherished.
NoIDidn't Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 You gave me something to chew on there, thanks. Some of the things you said are almost exactly what my own mother has said regarding this mess I have created and my MM. She no longer trusts my judgement and I know she has lost a lot of respect for me. She disliked my xH a lot but wanted me out and alone, not out and where I am now. She has no desire to meet him (MM), or talk to him. It seems to me that you should also consider how you are dealing with your own mother's reaction to MM too. I'm a just floored that your mother doesn't want to meet or speak with the father of her grandbaby. What a tangled web, indeed. I'm not judging you, this situation is just getting messier by the minute it seems. You two/three have a lot to contend with with your mothers and any family that may take their opinions to heart.
OWoman Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 As I mentioned , most people view adultery as a very serious violation of a social taboo that has been the norm (marriage) for thousands of years, hence the OP is fighting an uphill battle. It is one thing to accept the sinner but it is another to accept the sin. Now, you may have a different set of personal values and beliefs, but 98% of the adults still think that adultery is wrong and you are not doing the OP a favor by advising her to tell her mother-in-law that it is her problem. I'd like to challenge your statistics - please provide the studies that provided this outcome, together with their full research methodology (sample size, country/ies where the research was conducted, etc) since your claims that "98% of adults" are clearly very different to my own studies of comparative anthropology which indicates that what you claim as a homogeneous norm of "thousands of years" is in fact a very heterogeneous, complex and variable situation which has changed dramatically over time and context, and which is variably supported across gender, age, material interest, etc and thus not the picture you present at all. In my home country, for example, while many people do still marry, and while polygamous marriage is legal, it is still very common practice for men to have girlfriends outside of M, or alongside their official GF, and while it is not liked by these Ws and GFs, it is accepted and lived with. This has been the cultural practice for tens of thousands of years, long before notions of christian marriage were visited on these people's ancestors. And, if "98% of adults" think adultery is so wrong, why do other studies show that up to 60% of adults participate in it? Something doesn't add up - and I don't think it's my maths.
OWoman Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 OW, it is the OP's problem now, since she is the one trying to gain acceptance. What has OOTD won again? Sigh... People, please read with a little more attention! The post I was responding to was WF's post which was a comment on Gypsy's situation, where she had Md her fMM but still had to deal with a rude SIL, despite being M. It was not a direct comment on OOTD's situation, which ought to have been clear to anyone who read it to the end and saw the mention of Gypsy's name.
Spark1111 Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 I would have to think that the acceptance of the affair partner would have everything to do with how high the BS was regarded by friends and family. I know of one instance where the BS was a total vindictive nut job and the new woman was a lovely person. The new relationship was understood, hell, even celebrated and supported by all. But if the BS is a wonderful person, loved and respected by family....well, the welcome could be pretty hostile IMHO, no matter what issues existed in the marriage.
JumpinJimmy Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Sigh... People, please read with a little more attention! The post I was responding to was WF's post which was a comment on Gypsy's situation, where she had Md her fMM but still had to deal with a rude SIL, despite being M. It was not a direct comment on OOTD's situation, which ought to have been clear to anyone who read it to the end and saw the mention of Gypsy's name. I did read your post, and you quoted WF who was responding to my post about the OP's situation, no where was Gypsy mentioned by me. I just love how you point this out in a condescending manner and then put a smiley face on the end, as this somehow excuses the tone. Just like the subtle insults towards Christianity and the western world in your other post, it was a nice try.
OWoman Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 I would have to think that the acceptance of the affair partner would have everything to do with how high the BS was regarded by friends and family. I know of one instance where the BS was a total vindictive nut job and the new woman was a lovely person. The new relationship was understood, hell, even celebrated and supported by all. But if the BS is a wonderful person, loved and respected by family....well, the welcome could be pretty hostile IMHO, no matter what issues existed in the marriage. This makes sense. (Spark - "vindictive nut job" - do you know my H's xW, then?? )
OWoman Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 I did read your post, and you quoted WF who was responding to my post about the OP's situation, no where was Gypsy mentioned by me. I just love how you point this out in a condescending manner and then put a smiley face on the end, as this somehow excuses the tone. Just like the subtle insults towards Christianity and the western world in your other post, it was a nice try. While I have no desire to indulge in an extended t/j, the following refers: WF may have responded to your post, but the situation she was referencing - the SIL being rude to the married FOW - was Gypsy's situation, not OOTD's. Hence my clarifying that through referencing Gypsy in my response. The face I used was not a smiley, but a rolleyes. It was indeed intended to accentuate the tone you picked up on, not to excuse it - there's nothing to excuse. I was pointing out your error, and stand by that - I feel no need to excuse it as I was clearly right and you wrong. Where you find "subtle insults to christianity and the western world" is beyond me, but hey, whatever floats your boat. I am glad, however, that the racist drivel in your original response has been removed.
JumpinJimmy Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 (edited) While I have no desire to indulge in an extended t/j, the following refers: . How contradictory to state that will trying to get in the last word and yet doing exactly that.....It would seem that we already have. I have never T/J'd before, but I will make an exception in this case. Notice how I own up to my words. WF may have responded to your post, but the situation she was referencing - the SIL being rude to the married FOW - was Gypsy's situation, not OOTD's. Hence my clarifying that through referencing Gypsy in my response I understood what you stated, however I did not read every post in the thread as they sometime get off topic...or as another poster told you before "irrelevant". I made my statement based on my post, your post, and the OP. As far as your inability to grasp the concept of your subtle, condescending attitude towards Christianity, let me point it out to you in your own words..now own up to them. This has been the cultural practice for tens of thousands of years, long before notions of christian marriage were visited on these people's ancestors Note, I did not cry to the moderator. Again, I am not the one going against thousands of years of cultural practice in the world that most people live in. I'd like to challenge your statistics - please provide the studies that provided this outcome, together with their full research methodology (sample size, country/ies where the research was conducted, etc) since your claims that "98% of adults" are clearly very different to my own studies of comparative anthropology which indicates that what you claim as a homogeneous norm of "thousands of years" is in fact a very heterogeneous, complex and variable situation which has changed dramatically over time and context, and which is variably supported across gender, age, material interest, etc and thus not the picture you present at all. What I claim does not need to be proven. Cheating in marriage is wrong..period. I don't care where you come from. It is common knowledge as much as the sun rises in the east and the earth is round. And, if "98% of adults" think adultery is so wrong, why do other studies show that up to 60% of adults participate in it? Something doesn't add up - and I don't think it's my maths. By that argument, you would justify stealing as socially acceptable because xx% of the population commits a theft, you would justify murder as ok as xx% of the population has committed it..etc. Do you see the error in your argument? (two can play this insulting game) That middle paragraph of circular babble proves nothing. You prove otherwise..citing your sources. Edited November 3, 2009 by JumpinJimmy
fooled once Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 So you aren't giving up on him; while he stays married to his wife and while he looks for other women on line. Why do you stay again? Why do you have so little value for yourself that you stay with a man who is married to another woman and is looking for ANOTHER mistress online???
Spark1111 Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 This makes sense. (Spark - "vindictive nut job" - do you know my H's xW, then?? ) Owoman...Well I don't think so but who knows. To clarify, she was acting out, very aggressive and very opinionated. Domineering of all, not just him, and having many, many problems with all of her realtionships WAY BEFORE he crashed into the OW.
complicatedlife Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 I'd like to challenge your statistics - please provide the studies that provided this outcome, together with their full research methodology (sample size, country/ies where the research was conducted, etc) since your claims that "98% of adults" are clearly very different to my own studies of comparative anthropology which indicates that what you claim as a homogeneous norm of "thousands of years" is in fact a very heterogeneous, complex and variable situation which has changed dramatically over time and context, and which is variably supported across gender, age, material interest, etc and thus not the picture you present at all. In my home country, for example, while many people do still marry, and while polygamous marriage is legal, it is still very common practice for men to have girlfriends outside of M, or alongside their official GF, and while it is not liked by these Ws and GFs, it is accepted and lived with. This has been the cultural practice for tens of thousands of years, long before notions of christian marriage were visited on these people's ancestors. And, if "98% of adults" think adultery is so wrong, why do other studies show that up to 60% of adults participate in it? Something doesn't add up - and I don't think it's my maths. Love it, OW. Though I will say that I kinda disagree with your last paragraph:yes, many people DO commit adultery, however, I would say it's a safe bet that many of the adulterers do think it is in poor taste. No stats on that, just my own personal experience in and observation of my little world!
complicatedlife Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 How contradictory to state that will trying to get in the last word and yet doing exactly that.....It would seem that we already have. I have never T/J'd before, but I will make an exception in this case. Notice how I own up to my words. I understood what you stated, however I did not read every post in the thread as they sometime get off topic...or as another poster told you before "irrelevant". I made my statement based on my post, your post, and the OP. As far as your inability to grasp the concept of your subtle, condescending attitude towards Christianity, let me point it out to you in your own words..now own up to them. Originally Posted by OWoman This has been the cultural practice for tens of thousands of years, long before notions of christian marriage were visited on these people's ancestors Umm...I find no condescending attitude in this, whatsover, and I am VERY Christian! Note, I did not cry to the moderator. Again, I am not the one going against thousands of years of cultural practice in the world that most people live in. What I claim does not need to be proven. Cheating in marriage is wrong..period. I don't care where you come from. WOW. Ok! So, I guess religions/places that practice having more than one spouse (wife) - they don't count, huh?It is common knowledge as much as the sun rises in the east and the earth is round. By that argument, you would justify stealing as socially acceptable because xx% of the population commits a theft, you would justify murder as ok as xx% of the population has committed it..etc. Do you see the error in your argument? (two can play this insulting game) That middle paragraph of circular babble proves nothing. You prove otherwise..citing your sources.
In_Repair Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 My MW's family knows about me, but I haven't met all of them yet. She told her brother about me... and her sister... her best friends, one of which works right beside her husband all day and another one is married to her husbands best friend... her parents know... her close co-workers... My family also knows about her. Almost all of them have met her and she talks on the phone to one of my younger sisters quite a bit. They have even invited her over to my parents house before while I was at work. I got off work that day and went to my parents house where I found my MW and half my family playing together in the pool. I just stood there, not really knowing what to say or do. Awkward, to say the least!
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