fooled once Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 When I was in an A, I knew the MM I was seeing was lying to his wife on his whereabouts. I truly believed him as we had shared a great friendship bloosomed into love. I never thought he was lying to me. My family and friends all felt he was. I just didn't see it. I didn't see it until AFTER the affair ended. We know that virtually all MM lie ~ unless they tell their wives where they are going, who they are with, who else they are having a 'relationship' with, etc. I would say ALL but then someone would accuse me of generalizing by making "ALL" statements. So we know they are lying to their wives, yet we refuse to believe they are lying to us. Why is that? Why can't we accept that they could be lying to us? I see many threads where it is discussed ~ posts about the OW doesn't want to admit that the MM is sleeping with his wife, or planning a future with his wife, or just living life like married couples do. To hear some tell it, these men and their wives never speak, never are seen together, live in separate areas of the house and have zippo interaction. Do you think more OW will be able to understand it / see it once the Affair is over? Take for instsance nowheretohid, mybrowneyedgirl and a couple others who are recently ended their respective affairs -- they now DO SEE the MM for what he is - a liar. But when they were IN the affair, they couldn't see it. I wonder if OM have the same type of experience; i.e., believe most of what comes out of the MW's mouth because "she wouldn't lie to me" but after the A ends, he sees she was doing to him what she was doing to her H. Devil, boldjack (I think you were an OM; forgive me if I am wrong here) -- your thoughts? Does it really take getting out of it for seeing them for what they were/are? When my A ended and I realized what a dope I had been, I was so embarrassed for believing what he told me. It was quite a humiliating experience.
JumpinJimmy Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Here is another difference between men and women that convinces me that men are in it for the sex. I am sure the MW would have lied to me if I had asked her questions that pertained to her husband, but the kicker was I didn't ask those kind of questions because I didn't care what she was doing with her husband. She was sleeping with me and I assume she was sleeping with him, but I was the interloper..she was betraying him, not me. Also she gave her husband what little emotional support he needed, then I could care even less than her having sex with him.
jennie-jennie Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Your husband could be lying to you too. *** You know some women after a divorce will turn around and say they never loved the guy. That too me is a lie. It is rewriting of history. It must be some kind of protective mechanism at work here. I can see all the bad things my exSO did during our abusive relationship. I am glad I was finally able to leave. Yet I have not changed my opinion of him. I love him, I just don't want to be with him.
ladydesigner Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) Well I was the MOW having an A with an OM with a SO..whew... anyways I identify with a lot of what you say in your post while I was a liar to my H I felt I never once lied to the OM about my feelings for him. Whereas when he ended things with me saying it would go nowhere, I was married with kids and he apparently still had strong feelings for his GF, much of what he had been telling me prior to that was a lie. I was told he no longer had feelings for his GF that if he were to make a choice he would choose me. He was the first to say he loved me. He even said he wouldbe heartbroken if I ended things with him...ha what a liar. I never made any statements of what choicesI would make for him, but always told him I loved him dearly and was quite confused about my situation with him. Nonetheless, when he ended the A with me I felt lied to and humiliated. I felt very childish for having believed what he had said to me. I am a grown woman for godsakes not a teenager. Then came the... can we still be friends??? At first I was an absolute NO but we still kept in contact "as friends" and almost always his emails were in some way inappropriate and crossing the line in my eyes. I finally went NC 2 months ago. Enough is enough already. But yes I had felt lied to big time and I was also a liar to my H and to myself. Edited October 29, 2009 by ladydesigner
NoIDidn't Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 The most common lie I was told was the lie of omission. All of a sudden it was "You didn't ask". I don't think I needed to ask if he had a girlfriend/fiance/whatever SO. That would be something you should give a person a chance up front to decide whether to be a part of it or not.
ladydesigner Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Here is another difference between men and women that convinces me that men are in it for the sex. I am sure the MW would have lied to me if I had asked her questions that pertained to her husband, but the kicker was I didn't ask those kind of questions because I didn't care what she was doing with her husband. She was sleeping with me and I assume she was sleeping with him, but I was the interloper..she was betraying him, not me. Also she gave her husband what little emotional support he needed, then I could care even less than her having sex with him. I find this some what offensive, while this may be true in your case or in some of the cases, my XOM and I many times did not have sex when we saw each other, it was not the #1 thing happening in the A. The kicker in my situation is that my XOM asked me questions about my H all the time even after the A had ended... go figure:rolleyes:
2sure Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Until one is far away from the affair, the OW , the WS, and BS often dont see it for what it is. What has caused me the most grief regarding my H's infidelity is NOT THE INFIDELITY itself. Its the lies he told to me during it. NOT lies about where he was going, NOT the lies about who he was with. To keep the infidelity under the radar he went to great lengths to assure me we had the best marriage. That he was the happiest man in the world. He treated me well and convinced me I was his priority. If I had questions he answered them, if I was anxious he assured me. He showed me through words and actions that I was loved, desired, and cared for. Had he just not snowed me so completely, had he left some gray area, had he left me some room to doubt the solidness of our marriage, had he simply created some distance and left me wondering..... Maybe, just maybe...we could have addressed it or at the very least I wouldnt have had the rug pulled so completely from beneath me. He had me so convinced, now its too late. It isnt the cheating, it isnt the lies: I do not want a partner capable of this kind of deception. OW should look closely because this kind of deception is typical but it takes a very special kind of as*hole to do it.
wheelwright Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 The MM and me were very open. I rarely had sex with my H during the affair, but the couple of times I did (early on in the A. before MM had admitted his feelings) I told MM. When he resumed sex with his W after a long abstinence, he told me. It was a highly charged issue. I don't know for sure if he lied about the lack of intimacy in the M, but I still believe it. I kind of had evidence for it. And I can see no reason for him to lie. He never strung me along, but spent the A time making very painful decisions about his future. And when he worked on his marriage and regained intimacy, he told me that too. At that point the A ended. People in love talk very openly to one another. Perhaps if the love isn't there, the lies happen more. All cheaters are to some degree deceitful, but not all make lying a way of life. I told my H only one outright lie during the A. And I hated the deceit and could not share a bedroom with H during the A and told him I wanted to split up. I am not saying my actions weren't wrong. Living with deceit is soul destroying, especially if you are not a natural liar. I learnt that for myself, I cannot live with my own deceit, or a partner being deceitful to me. I could cope with MM deceiving his W only for the time I was convinced the M was empty. Sometimes we deceive ourselves. Perhaps some MM believe their Ms to be loveless, but upon looking deeper find they were wrong. This could account for what with hindsight look like lies.
NoIDidn't Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 People in love talk very openly to one another. Perhaps if the love isn't there, the lies happen more. I stopped at this line because its just not true, IMO. People in love are the biggest liars ever. We present our best selves and try to hide the darker parts of our nature. Its not until the love starts to settle that we allow more of ourselves to be seen. Its been said that its easiest to lie to people that you love because they just won't be looking for it. They don't expect you to lie.
Snowflower Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 The MM and me were very open. I rarely had sex with my H during the affair, but the couple of times I did (early on in the A. before MM had admitted his feelings) I told MM. When he resumed sex with his W after a long abstinence, he told me. It was a highly charged issue. I don't know for sure if he lied about the lack of intimacy in the M, but I still believe it. I kind of had evidence for it. And I can see no reason for him to lie. He never strung me along, but spent the A time making very painful decisions about his future. And when he worked on his marriage and regained intimacy, he told me that too. At that point the A ended. People in love talk very openly to one another. Perhaps if the love isn't there, the lies happen more. All cheaters are to some degree deceitful, but not all make lying a way of life. I told my H only one outright lie during the A. And I hated the deceit and could not share a bedroom with H during the A and told him I wanted to split up. I am not saying my actions weren't wrong. Living with deceit is soul destroying, especially if you are not a natural liar. I learnt that for myself, I cannot live with my own deceit, or a partner being deceitful to me. I could cope with MM deceiving his W only for the time I was convinced the M was empty. Sometimes we deceive ourselves. Perhaps some MM believe their Ms to be loveless, but upon looking deeper find they were wrong. This could account for what with hindsight look like lies. WW, your post is very interesting to me. It's a different perspective than from what I often read here. May I ask you a couple of questions? If you don't wish to answer, I understand! 1. You mention that your MM was making some very big decisions about his future? Did that mean whether to stay in his marriage, or to be with you, or neither/something else? 2. When he 'regained intimacy' in his marriage, you say the A ended. Who ended the A, you or him? Did his wife know about the A? Does your H? 3. When you quit sharing a bedroom with your H, was that what you meant by the deceit? That you H didn't know the truth? Was it the weight of the deceit or because of your feelings for the MM? Again, please don't answer if you don't wish to. I'm not going to go on the attack because yes, I am fBW but I find your perspective interesting...and thanks for sharing what you have already here.
NoIDidn't Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Perhaps some MM believe their Ms to be loveless, but upon looking deeper find they were wrong. This could account for what with hindsight look like lies. I can agree with this sentiment. My H truly believed our marriage to be loveless and over emotionally. The depth of my hurt that he would betray me and lie to me was a shock to him. It made him want to comfort me and consider fixing what we broke. But the things he told the OW were true in his mind. And when he found out that they weren't true, just his faulty perception - then SHE decided he was lying to her. He wasn't lying, though. He told her what he truly believed at the time. And I think most MM/MW are doing just this in their As. The lying that I think about is when they really do have an okay marriage (I did not), where they go on vacations and have a great time but tell the OP they were miserable the entire time. Where they are quite fulfilled in their married lives, but feel totally entitled to the love of others who are willing to give it to them. But when one really believes, truly, deeply believes that there is no love and they act in accordance to that belief - I can't call that lying. Its not less hurtful to the betrayed, but I can't call that lying to the OP.
jennie-jennie Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Your husband could be lying to you too. *** You know some women after a divorce will turn around and say they never loved the guy. That too me is a lie. It is rewriting of history. It must be some kind of protective mechanism at work here. I can see all the bad things my exSO did during our abusive relationship. I am glad I was finally able to leave. Yet I have not changed my opinion of him. I love him, I just don't want to be with him. Oh, my exSO was a serial cheater. I still do not see him differently after our separation 2 years ago.
stuckinoz Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 My x-MM lied to me all the time. About his wife - then after the divorce - about his girlfriend. (didn't know about her until after) He asked me all the time about my husband (specific things) & I never once lied about my relationship with my husband to him. I see him now as a serial cheater & will always lie to women. He's also a man that was cheated on as well (wife left him for her OM) & claims he will never trust women again Go figure that one out! Anyway, Yes, cheating & lying normally go hand in hand. But personally (sorry about the generalization) I think MOST married men lie to their wives all the time. Not just those in affairs. I just think it's what men do.
jennie-jennie Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 I guess my exSO didn't have me fooled. I saw him for who he was already during our relationship. I saw what was worth loving and what was not.
NoIDidn't Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 But personally (sorry about the generalization) I think MOST married men lie to their wives all the time. Not just those in affairs. I just think it's what men do. I agree. I'll take it one step further and just say that we all lie to the people we are in relationships with. Sometimes it is only to keep the peace. But in affairs, its something different. Its to give the appearance of peace.
bullhunter Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 This is an interesting thread. Interesting because of the assumption that it's the MM who does all of the lying. Completely ignored are the married men who get embroiled in affairs primarily due to the lying the AP has done. I come back here and read every once in awhile simply hoping that at some time I will see a thread not portraying the OW as an innocent victim and the MM as the rapacious aggressor. It's not always the case. The presentation is that of a friend. Not someone who is interested in you sexually or as anything other than simply a friend. However, at least in my case, I found out after the fact that this woman had planned to relieve me of my marriage from the get-go. In fact she even told me that at one point, but at that particular point I was drunk on the idea of her. It didn't soak into my befuddled brain until much later when I had regained my equilibrium. I don't claim to be a victim. I could have said no. I didn't. Each step forward I made a choice and each step except at the end was the wrong choice. However, I did not begin the pursuit, nor was I at any step in between the aggressor. Had I been honest with my wife, though, nothing would have happened. She was the only true victim in the situation and the only one who actually showed character. In my humble opinion affairs would never happen if no one ever lied. But it is not always the MM doing all the lying.
Snowflower Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Thank you for sharing what you wrote here, bullhunter. I've read some of your posts before because actually, you sound a lot like my H, including the hunting! My H was in in no means an innocent victim in the affair, he made his choices and never blamed anyone but himself for succumbing but the OW was the aggressor to some extent. She was already separated from her H and just like you mention, seemed to want to 'divest my H of his marriage' since she already had pretty much both feet out of her marriage...she tried very hard to get him to do the same thing. I know there was plenty of deceit on both sides and again, my H wasn't innocent but neither was she.
NoIDidn't Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 This is an interesting thread. Interesting because of the assumption that it's the MM who does all of the lying. What a great point! The OPs do a great deal of lying to themselves as well. I know I did. There's lying to friends about the marital/dating status of the AP. There is lying to the betrayed if they knew each other during any point of the A. There is a lot of lying in affairs. So true that its not just the married person doing the lying.
Spoiled Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 I am an xMOW and had been friends with my xMM and his W for over 12 years. His W would send me emails, call me, and maintain contact online thru fb. Neither one of us could lie about most aspects of our lives, I could not tell him and her conflicting info and same for him. My xMM and I were open years ago and I knew things about their premarital R and M that she never shared with me. After d-day, I learned nothing new from her and I just listened, never admitting that I already knew what she was telling me. Exact same stories. His W would make comments to him about my photos, etc online because he did not have access but knew my activity. He rarely spoke negative of her but he did say something that seemed a bit stretched about her personality that I had never heard or seen before, well of course d-day and days afterward proved that true. Three months of NC and I still believe his genuine feelings for me. Our A was not based on sex and we did not see each other often. We had to drive hours to spend time together. He probably felt I was more of a liar because I maintained a "happy" M. A MM who wants to really lie about his M and manipulate the OW is not going to have an A with a friend who has connections with his W. To easy for her to find out the truth.
Spoiled Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 This is an interesting thread. Interesting because of the assumption that it's the MM who does all of the lying. Completely ignored are the married men who get embroiled in affairs primarily due to the lying the AP has done. I come back here and read every once in awhile simply hoping that at some time I will see a thread not portraying the OW as an innocent victim and the MM as the rapacious aggressor. It's not always the case. The presentation is that of a friend. Not someone who is interested in you sexually or as anything other than simply a friend. However, at least in my case, I found out after the fact that this woman had planned to relieve me of my marriage from the get-go. In fact she even told me that at one point, but at that particular point I was drunk on the idea of her. It didn't soak into my befuddled brain until much later when I had regained my equilibrium. I don't claim to be a victim. I could have said no. I didn't. Each step forward I made a choice and each step except at the end was the wrong choice. However, I did not begin the pursuit, nor was I at any step in between the aggressor. Had I been honest with my wife, though, nothing would have happened. She was the only true victim in the situation and the only one who actually showed character. In my humble opinion affairs would never happen if no one ever lied. But it is not always the MM doing all the lying. I was friends with my xMM's W so it was more difficult for him to lie. Although we were all friends, communication with him and his W were always through me. My H never communicated with them, xMM only knew my side of every story. Probably why he was more insecure about our R than me.
NoIDidn't Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 A MM who wants to really lie about his M and manipulate the OW is not going to have an A with a friend who has connections with his W. To easy for her to find out the truth. Not necessarily true.
Spoiled Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Not necessarily true. That is definitely a possibility. I am speaking more for myself, there is no way I would have had an A with a good friend of my H if I did not intend to be honest about our M. Another thing and I am not placing my xMM on a pedestal. On d-day, he did everything in his power to protect me and it only lasted several days. He told her I was someone else and was taking the entire blame. Never threw me "under the bus" and his W was extremely upset about that and asked me over and over why was he protecting me so much. He knew it would hurt her from me(supposed to be a close friend) but was willing to accept it all. I never fully understood why he did that. Could of been for several reasons.
jj33 Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 I wasnt lied to at all. But then I wasnt fed those tales of how horrible the wife was (at least not by him) or how awful the marriage was (again by others who knew them socially but not a word from him). I do wonder how someone can believe that stuff if the married person isnt in the process of taking action to leave. If its THAT bad, people divorce. I think sometimes the AP wants to believe the tales they are told because it gives them something to hang onto. Then when the affair is over they look at things more objectively and determine what was the truth and what a fabrication.
mybrowneyedgirl Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) moved to another thread Edited October 29, 2009 by mybrowneyedgirl meant to start a new thread
Author fooled once Posted October 29, 2009 Author Posted October 29, 2009 Your husband could be lying to you too. *** You know some women after a divorce will turn around and say they never loved the guy. That too me is a lie. It is rewriting of history. It must be some kind of protective mechanism at work here. I can see all the bad things my exSO did during our abusive relationship. I am glad I was finally able to leave. Yet I have not changed my opinion of him. I love him, I just don't want to be with him. Whose husband could be lying to who??????
Recommended Posts