65tr6 Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 What if it is never enough information? Spark, like you said, every BS is different. In my case, I had to know everything to even begin the healing process. I asked 100s of questions. Some of them were repeated. It went on over a period of 4 months or so right after dday. My wife answered every question and I am glad she did. She was very uncomfortable in some cases but she did try her best to answer. Here is the thing, sometimes some of her responses felt like another brutal kick BUT at the same time, it made me that much more stronger (what does not kill you makes you stronger ? lol). I have hard time believing that too much honesty (is there such a thing as too much honesty?), open details about the affair kills any hope for reconciliation. On the contrary, trickle truth, sugar coating information can only lead to further devastation. I asked all the details about their sex. How often ? Did you ever say no ? How did it feel ? did you have oral ? where and when did you have sex ? If they had unprotected sex ? If so, why ? Did you f* more than once in a session ? What exactly did you talk about ? What emotional needs of yours were met ? How did you make you feel ? (you know secure, sexy, alive, whatever) and many more.... I read here and other places.. Why the obsession to know about specific sexual details ? How does it help heal ? I laugh at some of these suggestions/advice..My question to them is, So, you know what details are important for me to heal and what are not ? Really ? You know what, if my wife had refused to answer the questions, then in all likely I would have walked away. There was enough insanity prevailing already at that moment, I didnt need anymore. In a way, she had no other option but to cough up. Looking back I don't regret asking any of these questions. If anything had my wife refused to answer any of the questions, it would have made my healing process that much more difficult. The details, to be very honest, don't bother me anymore. At the end of the day, she behaved like many other million waywards. She let herself loose, made a terrible decision.
65tr6 Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Look at the male respondents....they seem most traumatized by the imagination of the sex act....and need EVERY SINGLE DETAIL to heal. true... Want to know every single detail about the sex act because for most men, sex is one of the top emotional needs. And in most cases, prior to the affair, sex takes a turn for worse in the marriage. So while the BS is wondering (prior to the A) if this is all normal (or what the hell is going on) the wayward is discovering that her new emotional need is being met by an outsider.
mybrowneyedgirl Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Im just talking from my own personal experience here. my H knows everything related to the affair but only a few explicit sex details. we just chose not to discuss it when we realized it wasnt getting us anywhere. anything he asked i answered. my AP. still lying. even after like 3-4 events where hes come clean and told it all. im wondering if any of the people here who say they FINALLY got full disclosure are in a similar situation. his W thinks she knows everything but doesnt.
aeh Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Exactly BEG. That's what I'm wondering. He swears over and over he's told me everything, has kept his story pretty consistent now for three months, but I still wonder.... How do you have an A for ten months and not have feelings? Why do you risk everything for someone you don't have feelings for? Would a woman really stay in an A if her partner wasn't giving her compliments, ego strokes?
Author Spark1111 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Posted October 29, 2009 Initially, I trusted him to tell me everything and kept fully away from her: No contact with the OW whatsoever. I figure,d three people in a triangle, three get hurt. About 1 year into reconciliation, I called her, calm, truce, etc. No what my therapist says? It is a diversion when you hyper-focus on the OP because you are not getting your needs met from your WS in the area of the need to KNOW. She never returned my call, either still protecting him or herself, or the affair or whatever. True lunacy on my part. Now, I harbor additional resentment towards her where before there was empathy. I PRAY to someday bump into her. Maybe she'll give me some information. Maybe not. Maybe, 2sure is right. Maybe some people are just not capable of talking about their devastating behavior. Hell, I would talk about it all day until I ganied some understanding. What does that bode for my future? Accept it? and stay? Or go crazy. Or leave?
Author Spark1111 Posted October 29, 2009 Author Posted October 29, 2009 My H has never told me anything beyond admitting to what I have put in front of him as black and white. He uses the blanket statement: "I have cheated on and betrayed you in every way possible" as his tool for communcation/admission/ etc. I refuse to ask any questions. He is incapable of telling the truth. Its a shame too because as a person...I can forgive him what he has done to me, I can wrap my head around the fact that this is his problem, painful and embarrassing to him as well as me. I have love and still have empathy for him. If he were capable of telling me the truth I would be able to move on from this nightmare feeling as though he and the last 4 years were not a complete and utter tragic part of my own and my daughter's life. But he is incapable so far in giving me even that. He remains a piece of ****. Standing still with his blanket statements and promises seems to be acceptable to him. But I deal with reality, I dont operate that way, I dont stand still , I move forward. 2sure, my heart breaks for you. A question: What does the the MC say regarding his dodging, weaving, avoiding? His blanket statement. Is he called out on that? Mine says two things repeatedly: I'm so sorry I hurt you...and I love you. I really do. I want to hear.....more.
foreal Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 How do you have an A for ten months and not have feelings? Why do you risk everything for someone you don't have feelings for? Would a woman really stay in an A if her partner wasn't giving her compliments, ego strokes? Of course he complimented her....but maybe not the way he would YOU. Of course he stroked her ego...but maybe not the way he would YOU. Of course he had feelings for her...but maybe not the way he does for YOU. Your H's MOW was most likely already being given the Heisman by her H which led her to your H....so ANY kind of attention would be fabulous... sorta like if you really wanted a Vintage Champagne but you only ever got Strawberry Hill, but then a NV Sparkling wine comes along, you'd say, damn, that's a hellava lot better than that Strawberry Hill shyt I was drinking! It's not Vintage Champagne, but it still has bubbles and is still sorta tasty! But it's still not the great stuff. Think about it.....do you really think she was getting the best your H had to give? Doubt it. And he knows it which is why to him he doesn't really see it as complimenting her etc...face it, screwing in hotel rooms, cars, sneaking around, while it can be thrilling, is still screwing in hotel rooms, cars and sneaking around. Those on here who were/are in love with their AP I bet would LOVE to not have to sneak around, to instead live their love out loud as opposed to muffled and stifled, let alone having a friggin wife or husband at home that the MM/MW goes home to- what a buzz kill that is...even if you are drinking the good stuff...
skylarblue Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Originally Posted by Spark1111 But when I was ready for them....they were not forthcoming and I have learned, in my case, my imagination is greater than any truths he could have told me. He has told me that her attention and flattery is what turned him on, but the sex was...less than. Based on a few texts I intercepted, pretty sure I don't believe this either…And as more time goes on, he remembers....less. We are heading back to MC. I need to know if I can trust him again. What if it is never enough information? I don’t think it could ever be enough information because I think it’s the fact THAT he did it, not WHAT he’d done. IMO all I see relevant is that he had an A, with whom, when, and for how long to make a decision on if you’d want to stay or not. I can understand wanting to know details. I just think it’s a bad idea. I reiterate, you won’t get the full truth, if any. “And as more time goes on, he remembers....less”...yeah right.
skylarblue Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 Originally Posted by aeh My H had a 10 month long A. He has insisted repeatedly it was "just sex"… they just didn't talk about feelings or emotions… He said it was just not that kind of A. I feel like he is minimizing it to re-enter the M…He also says that he wasn't giving her compliments other than "you look nice today" or "that feels good" (during sex). I just don't get that--I would think that the ego-stroking is why she is there (and for him,too). Does this ring true for anyone else? This is true in the situation between MM and me. We’ve been involved 5yrs and it’s only and always been just sex. We talk and see each other all the time, but it’s “just not that kind of A” involving feelings or emotions. We don’t talk about personal qualities (i.e. you’re caring, smart, funny, etc) or compliments either unless it relates to something sexual. So, your H may be telling the truth. But that is the ego-stroking for both of us. For him, it’s having an attractive girl half his age making him feel like he has and is the best lover in the world. For me, it’s being able to say I broke your bond this easily. I’m better than you.
skylarblue Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 Originally Posted by bentnotbroken …It's funny your assumption of being an AP is you have no responsibility to the BS, yet you don't believe they should take responsibility for themselves to be informed. IN general, they should shut the hell up and take what is dished to them. The outside people get to have all the pieces to the puzzle and the person already in the dark should never have them all. Cool. For situations like mine I kinda do feel that way. I pose no threat to breaking up her M or family or security. He doesn’t have feelings for me. He still is and does all the things he’s expected to as H and father...so yeah, you right, in such cases I do think she should shut up and deal with it…As far as having all the pieces to the puzzle, she doesn’t but neither do I. I only know what I am told. The only one with all the pieces in an A is the WS.
bentnotbroken Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 Originally Posted by bentnotbroken …It's funny your assumption of being an AP is you have no responsibility to the BS, yet you don't believe they should take responsibility for themselves to be informed. IN general, they should shut the hell up and take what is dished to them. The outside people get to have all the pieces to the puzzle and the person already in the dark should never have them all. Cool. For situations like mine I kinda do feel that way. I pose no threat to breaking up her M or family or security. He doesn’t have feelings for me. He still is and does all the things he’s expected to as H and father...so yeah, you right, in such cases I do think she should shut up and deal with it…As far as having all the pieces to the puzzle, she doesn’t but neither do I. I only know what I am told. The only one with all the pieces in an A is the WS. Again, making a decision about one's life is the basic human right of all adults. You don't know everything because you made the choice to be an ow and IMHO aren't deserving of anything other than what you put into the couples marriage. She on the other hand didn't make the choice not to have all the pieces. So asking for them, seeking them, uncovering them is not only her right, but in some cases necessary to emotional health and stability. And no, not all of them still do all the things they are supposed to do as a husband and a father. Not all women are content to be the shut up and deal with it type or to except less than what they are worth.
tami-chan Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 What Did You Need To Know About The Affair? Nothing. Not interested.
ArtAsylumBoy Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 Everyone is different and everyone needs different information. What information regarding the affair helped you to heal? So far, nothing. If I at least had the knowledge that she was truly sorry for what she did and she realized he was just a douche bag who took advantage of her, maybe it could help me get over it. But all I get is her crying about how she can't do this anymore and that he was such a good friend. It started when they, lets call them Sara and JJ (because those are their real names and I don't give a ****) began screwing around behind my back while they would close the restaurant they worked at together. She was the manager and he was a dirtbag server with his own girlfriend at the time but had no problem adding my wife to his stable while simultaneously ruining the lives of two innocent little girls at home by stealing their mother's time away from them. We were having trouble at home due to her being a perpetual liar so instead of being honest with me, or coming with me to marriage counseling, or talking to a family member, or maybe calling her best friend, or even seeing a psychiatrist to get some happy pills, she decides it would be much better for her as a person to start ****ing around with one of her staff members while I stayed home every night taking care of our two young children with no help from her whatsoever. I'm expected to be ok with this because "she needed a friend". And everyone knows, a good friend is someone that takes advantage of you and uses your vulnerability as a means of getting into your pants. Great guy... What did you NOT want to know. if anything? I wanted to know everything. Eventually, I did know everything. But none of it came from her. She apparently has no problem acting like a whore, but when it comes to apologizing or answering any questions that I deserve the right to know, then she shuts down. Tells me I'm being ridiculous when I say I don't believe her. But again, I'd be willing to let a lot of it go if she cared about me still. But she's told me she doesn't. What I really want to know is if she's still stupid enough to believe he ever cared about her. I want to know how she could willingly neglect her children to be with him night after night when she knew they were at home staying up until the early hours of the morning just to spend time with her. She would come home at three am, go to sleep after complaining about "what a rough day at work" she had, wake up with enough time to spend maybe ten minutes with the kids, then run back to work and her boyfriend's house afterwards. Was your WS completely forthcoming on the details? Hell no. Apparently she was brought up believing that you don't have to be accountable for your actions. And that it's perfectly all right to ruin someone's life if you plan on leaving them anyway because they didn't buy you all the stupid **** you wanted and support you while you did nothing. Not even being the father of her children got me any credit. She spent an hour and a half at his place on her way home on Father's day. Couldn't even come home and give me twenty friggin minutes to myself... What did they hide, if anything, from you? Everything. Her cell phone log was emptied every time she sent a text (Which was often. They went back and forth about fifty times a day) her work schedule suddenly stopped showing up on the fridge, because she needed me to think she was opening the restaurant at 7 am instead of 9 so she could stop by his house on her way to work in the morning. Her computer activity was done late at night. 4 o'clock in the morning has her e-mailing a half naked photo of herself that I took back when we were dating. All while our daughter was coughing up a lung because she was sick that night. I don't think she knows that I'm aware of her coming home from work, then spending all her time on the computer looking at all the photos of him on his facebook account. The best part was her attempt to hide the fact that she would stop by his apartment several times a week. I found an apartment pass for his complex in her purse. Which she claimed she never used. Lo and behold, our GPS track log told me another story. Disgusting is what it was. One night she comes home from work at four in the morning. Work clothes all a mess, make up runny. Told me about a rough night and that she got home as soon as she could. The next day I see photos of her on facebook from that night in a bar with her boyfriend at a concert. She actually goes through the trouble of leaving work, changing her clothes, going to a concert, with him, stopping by his apartment afterwards, changing clothes again (innocently enough while in his room I'm sure) then putting her work clothes back on and coming home to me where I actually felt bad for her... It's not just me right? That's a pretty screwed up amount of effort to avoid coming home and playing with our children before bed right? In what timeline were your questions answered? Heh... Still waiting on those to be answered. Again, she's already justified it so I guess she doesn't owe me any explanations. I'm just the awful ******* who expects my wife to be honest with me. I know that's asking a lot, but I'm still hopeful... And, at what point, post DDay, did you feel like you had turned a corner in either your reconciliation, or your decision to divorce? When she told me there was nothing left for me in her heart. We had a fight a few months ago when she said that if things ever got really bad, she would just cut and run. Even if it meant leaving the kids behind. I'm actually ok with that. My kids are the only reason I'm still here. I wish she would just do us all a favor and skip town so I can legally take them back to my home state where they'll grow up around people who actually care about them and people who actually want to come home from work and see them. But now that her boyfriend skipped town with his tail between his legs, our kids are all of a sudden, the most important people in her life. I'm sure that'll change if he comes back into town for any reason, but for now, I have to deal with her acting like she's been mother of the year. I ask because many WS who want to reconcile, begin to minimize the affair, issue trickle-truths or omit out of shame, or claim to be unable to remember. They do not want to keep re-visiting a time they are NOW ashamed of. I'm sure she's not the least bit ashamed of what she did. She's still probably telling herself the same thing she told herself back then, "Mike is so mean to me, but JJ really cares about me! I deserve this! I'm sure I'm not being used." Pathetic. And if she is ashamed, she sure doesn't show it. But like I said, she decided our life together isn't worth saving after she shared her great connection with some guy she barely even knew. I'm either looking for her to realize what a complete moron she was and try to fix things, or I'm looking to be able to finally hate her and be so disgusted with her that I'm happy to leave her and her miserable life behind. Part of the frustration comes from her screaming about how badly she wants a divorce, but then she doesn't want to tell me the kinds of things that will help me give her one. But at this point, I could honestly take it or leave it. Again, my concern is getting my kids away from her so they don't grow up thinking that you can just screw strangers when you need to feel good about yourself. If she would just admit that the kids do nothing but drag down her party slut lifestyle and let me take them home, I'd draw smiley faces next to every signature on our divorce papers. But as usual, she's going to be selfish. Because it's not enough to make me feel like an idiot and cheat on me and make herself look like trash. No, she still needs to insult all of us by acting like she cares about our kids thereby depriving them even further of a chance at a good life. How did your WS effort to disclose the details help or hinder your efforts to heal from the affair? I'd be happy to forgive her and heal. But not before I get some answers. The most frustrating thing in the world is when someone stupider than me, thinks I'm stupider than them. That's exactly what her and her boyfriend did to me all summer. I'm tired of it. I'd find little bits of evidence throughout her whole affair. I even called him and told him to back off and he said he would. All I got in return for trying to keep our family together was her accusations of how ridiculous and obsessive I was being. She tells me that we haven't been friends in a long time. I didn't think we'd turned into enemies however. But she had no problem repeatedly hurting me and destroying our family. All for a guy who posted private pictures of her up on the internet. Because I guess that's what "good friends" do
ArtAsylumBoy Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 Wow... Sorry... Didn't realize how long I was going off... Guess who still has issues with anger?!?!
ADF Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 How much disclosure regarding your WS's affair was ENOUGh disclosure to help you heal? Everyone is different and everyone needs different information. What information regarding the affair helped you to heal? What did you NOT want to know. if anything? Was your WS completely forthcoming on the details? What did they hide, if anything, from you? In what timeline were your questions answered? And, at what point, post DDay, did you feel like you had turned a corner in either your reconciliation, or your decision to divorce? I ask because many WS who want to reconcile, begin to minimize the affair, issue trickle-truths or omit out of shame, or claim to be unable to remember. They do not want to keep re-visiting a time they are NOW ashamed of. How did your WS wffort to disclose the details help or hinder your efforts to heal from the affair? I need to know one thing and one thing only: was there an affair? If the answer is yes, we're through. There are some things I won't put up with. Neither should you. If it happened once, odds are good it will happen again.
seibert253 Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 How much disclosure regarding your WS's affair was ENOUGh disclosure to help you heal? Everyone is different and everyone needs different information. What information regarding the affair helped you to heal? What did you NOT want to know. if anything? Was your WS completely forthcoming on the details? What did they hide, if anything, from you? In what timeline were your questions answered? And, at what point, post DDay, did you feel like you had turned a corner in either your reconciliation, or your decision to divorce? I ask because many WS who want to reconcile, begin to minimize the affair, issue trickle-truths or omit out of shame, or claim to be unable to remember. They do not want to keep re-visiting a time they are NOW ashamed of. How did your WS wffort to disclose the details help or hinder your efforts to heal from the affair? I wanted details, but not overly specific. When my FWW was in the fog, I got next to nothing except it was all my fault, yada yada. After she fell back to earth, the fog lifted, and the endless crying and I'm sorry's, did I get any details. I basically told her she has one chance to make this right, and if she lies about ANYTHING, our marriage was finished. I had the papers, but had yet to file and she knew this. My questions were basic; when, where, how often, and why. Every question I asked, she answered. I didn't want to know the gorey details like did she bl#w him, have an#l sex, what positions did you use, things like that. As a matter of fact I didn't even ask about size or performance, she interjected those on her own. I was better and he had ED problems. WTF? Funny, I'd always heard a women's biggest sex organ was the brain, sure was true in this case.
silktricks Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) I am looking at the cell phone bills and discover another weekend at a lovely resort-town. I go absolutely crazy. Given a calm trusting environment to tell me the truth....why lie again? The trust and the recovery clock set squarely back to zero. Yeah - I hear you. That set back to zero happens... Here's what I know about the cheating/lying side... It's scary to tell the truth when you are terribly afraid that you'll lose the person you love if you do. You figure they've experienced all the pain they can take - and you KNOW that if they know what a rat-bast*rd you really are that they'll leave for sure - especially when you have no idea why they are with you at this point. You hope like h*ll that they'll just accept that you really love them. That you are horribly ashamed and simply can NOT re-examine yet again what you are so deathly ashamed of. They said they forgive you, but they keep bringing it up. Maybe they really haven't forgiven you and instead are bringing this up so that they have a good excuse to leave. I want to forget this - I can't take it anymore..... I really do NOT want to remember this any more. I can't remember. From the cheated upon side: If you really love me you'll do whatever you need to do to make me feel safe again. I need to know everything, so that I know what exactly I am dealing with, and what exactly I have to get past. And I have to know what it is to know if it's something I can get past. Maybe it isn't - but now I get to make the choice - not you. I want to know that you aren't protecting either her or yourself at the expense of me, because you already did that - for a long time. Now it's time to lay yourself bare to me and prove that I am more important. I need to know that you've told me the truth and the whole truth. That the "truth" won't change depending on the circumstances. I can't have a good relationship with you again if I can't trust you fully again. I will never again be able to trust you fully in the future if I can't trust you RIGHT NOW. Give me the TRUTH. If it hurts, so be it, but until I feel that you trust me enough to give me the truth, I will never again be able to trust you. So that's how it was for me.... Edited October 30, 2009 by silktricks
road Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 "I was better and he had ED problems." I think many a WW say this to boost the BH to help repair the damage. Not because it's based on truth.
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