kiwi pom Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 HI As a newbie here and someonewho never thought I would need this kind of advice please bear with me ... heres the story so far; This last weekend gone (23rd oct) my wife of 18 years announced that she wanted us to split as she didnt want to be unfaithfull behind my back. To say I was shocked is an understatement, we have had our ups & downs (who hasnt) we have also started a new life here in NZ for our 2 kids (12 & 17) and ourselves, emigrating from UK some 18 months ago. The shocker was she wanted to carry on as we are and present to the outside world, that we are still married, no one is to know. So I went along with this for a couple of days but after visiting a councilor yesterday, came to realised this isnt healthy for our kids or me. It seemed to annoy her that I had not folowed her rules in contacting counciling and later family and friends. ( I need to talk about things) So I now find myself still here (family home) with 2 upset children and a stranger (the wife) She will not consider counciling with me or alone (never has been able to vocalise emotion - part of the real problem I realise now) So I am pressing ahead for the kids as they sure need some professional help in coping with their lifes, being so suddenly altered. Lukily I am able to be here with them as work is v understanding, my doctor has also helped me in advising agencies for family support. So I am here for them but I believe so should their mom be here - she is keen to have her 'free spirit' lifestyle, whilst I have always been a 'home bird' I am trying to keep busy contacting a lawyer, family court and the various agencies here - colleagues and the few real friends i have made in the short time we have been here, have all been great, with varying degrees of support, including offers of a place to stay for me. I guess my dilema really centres around the kids - keeping normality going whilst not wanting to stay here with her, should that make things worse - theres an element of Why TF should I leave since I have not caused this but I must put this aside in favour of the best interests of the kids. As I type this I am alone in that she is staying out (overnight) being a free spirit again. Is quite a dilema - in some ways it would be easier if she flew the nest, at least during the week.... obviously its less than a week since this bomb shell, so we are all raw and a lot of tears have flowed, I would appreciate all your views & comments, we are all in new territory here
TaraMaiden Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Tell her to leave. She can't have her cake and eat it. Either she stays and makes an effort to contribute, participate and be a family member, or she finalises her free-bird status, and goes. It's screwing with the kids' heads, and is unfair on them. They can't be expected to continue living like this. Tell her you will check the situation, but unless she leaves of her own accord, you will change the locks. She has 2 days to clear out everything she wants before it happens.... And check the situation..... Good luck.
Author kiwi pom Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 and the law here doesnt allow either party to throw the other out - it encourages couples to reach agreement where ever possible - using court orders after much mediation & free counciling. It actualy seems like a great system, neither party has more rights than the other and the children are no.1 in any orders that may have to eventually be made... Parents reasons /opinions / behaviour are largley irrelivant - its whats best for the kids IF the parties cant agree.
TaraMaiden Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Well, I think you have to be a lot more confrontational and direct with her than you are being, because she is getting the best of both worlds. maybe you need to stop making meals for her, doing her washing, or even acknowledging she exists.... 'Putting people on ignore' works in real life as well as online. If you want to make it clear she's shot her bolt and is so keen to end it - then by all means, your pleasure. She ends it. But make it hard for her to stay.
mark982 Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 since you can't toss her can to the curb,you're gonna have to make her life diffucult. like tara said,stop doing any/all things for her, seperate all finances,stop credit cards, checking accts,etc. does she even work? can't see how she can spend the night out in the middle of the week.
Author kiwi pom Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 Thanks guys I hear what you are saying about making things difficult and I so want to carry on doing that - thing is it makes it so uncomfortable for the kids who are still hurting, as for working - yes she works very hard, across the street from me in fact we were using the one car to drive into work together (at least we did, the doc has signed me off work for 2 weeks) Yes I can probably take the train or on ocassion a lift from a local friend, theres lots I can do to make her life (and my life) more difficult. Trouble is it reeks of revenge, being hurt is my battle should I take it out (indirectly)on the kids.
TaraMaiden Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 No, it's not revenge. Revenge is when you dream up things to do to the other person that are out of norm, and spiteful, like pouring bleach on her new coat, or letting the car tyres down. This isn't revenge. This is protection for you - and the children. The reason you 'withdraw privileges is to make them understand that staying is of no benefit and just generates discomfort. If a person chooses to break from their family in this way, they must be made to understand that there are consequences. Consider your actions, and decide whether they are done out of revenge, or self-preservation.
back2gether Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I agree. Staying in a relationship like this can't be good for the kids and you have a right to protect them. I would start the legal process of getting her out of the house. Make sure you document what is said, and record when she leaves the house for the night to be a "free spirit." If she is willing to put on a false front to the entire world acting like your relationship is fine, then she is probably willing to lie in court.
Author kiwi pom Posted October 29, 2009 Author Posted October 29, 2009 Well we just had a fairly civilised conversation I told her to leave I said it is best for the children and all concerned - it seemed to take her by surprise. She didnt get angry but rang family court to check on the progress of our application for process (its counciling sessions with the aim to reach agreement on kids house etc etc) She hasnt said she will leave but if we cant reach an agreement eventually the court will have to make a judgement (which gets expensive and drags the kids through even more ****) I dont wnt that for them. So I guess I did the best thing for my kids stability - so why does it hurt so .... It felt good being back in control of my kids lifes though.
TaraMaiden Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 ...But did she agree to leave....? If not, you're back at square one....
Author kiwi pom Posted October 29, 2009 Author Posted October 29, 2009 not ideal but hey thats where we are
TaraMaiden Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 You can't go giving opinions to her, then not following through with something, otherwise she will just continue riding roughshod over you. I take it you were married elsewhere, not NZ. Let me tell you, I lived in France, when my ex- and I decided to divorce. he petitioned to have the whole proceedings dealt with under British Law and jurisdiction. We married in the UK.... So although we were permanent residents in France, and owned property there, and worked there - French legislation didn't get a look-in. Wondering whether you could do the same....?
Author kiwi pom Posted October 29, 2009 Author Posted October 29, 2009 Yes we were married in the UK - so it might be an option - I think UK law is different in that if adultery were proven she would pretty much loose the battle (she claims its an EA not gone the full hog yet). On the other hand I seem to remember friends telling me that the mother has more rights than the man so it maybe a double edged sword I guess ? We are trying to talk at least and I am hopeful that she will see she is hurting her kids and do the right thing - I cant force her out under the law here. Its only been a week so the dust hasn’t settled yet we should be adults for our children’s sakes. [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][/FONT]
Metal_Muffin Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 What is you children would want...other then their lifes how they were how do you feel they would cope better...what situaton would they choose?
Author kiwi pom Posted October 30, 2009 Author Posted October 30, 2009 I am sure my kids wouldnt want any more extended prolonged battles - hence I may have to relinquish my position & retire with dignity.. At this stage it maybe better for her to remain in the house with them AND ME TO GO for the sake of the kids -- thoughts PLEASE...
Metal_Muffin Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 Just ask them...they will tell you what they prefer and then you have tour answer
TaraMaiden Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 Well, the youngest may say that they wish things were the way they were before the $h1t hit the fan. Which is impossible, clocks don't go back that way.... So ask them, realistically, what they think you should do, and what they think mum should do (and explain that mum has made it quite plain there is no reconciliation) and ask the eldest for their opinion too. Emphasise that you're not asking them to become more involved in this than necessary, but you need to know what it is they practically see as the best way to move forward. And never insult or belittle the spouse (I don't think you would anyway) but simply put the case that - this happens. High or low, people meet, and either stick it out or they don't. there are no certainties in Life. But apportion RESPONSIBILITY where it's due. (not blame, notice, but responsibility). It takes two to tango, and whilst I'm not saying you had an equal part in this, something happened on both sides to cause a rift. or a drift.... It happens, that's the way life is sometimes. be mature and practical.The kids need a level head to turn to, right now. Try to keep your emotion out of it, even though they might display it.... Be sympathetic, but try to keep them on the right track, too. Good luck.
Author kiwi pom Posted November 7, 2009 Author Posted November 7, 2009 Before the split - all was great on all levels - she seemed tired - I put that down to the new full time role she has taken on but sshe was enjoying it (a little too much it now transpires) We were physically together the intensity was still there there was no arguing and all seemed good. She was having night sweats and mood swings for the last few months - but typical of her, wouldnt seek professional help for the lack of sleeping. Thanks for the advice things seems to have moved on - we had another chat this afternoon and it transpires she is exhausted and confused (I knew this already) She is very lonley as non of our friends in this small town will speak to her now and she feels VERY guilty. But yes she has outgrown me - in that she wants to enjoy HER time not be wife or mom. Our 17 year old daughter seems to understand her and wants to be with mom which is fine - its our 12 year old that concerns me - he hasnt had professional help and seems introverted, I am afraid he is not dealing with his emotions. Friends that know her well, tell me that she is not quite herself at the moment and is tearing herself apart - quite worrying if not for her, but for the kids who do NEED a stable mom I think she is now torn between Kids and freedom (I am out of the picture altogether) despite her hug today and wierd statements like "she wont ever find anyone as good as me". I think the cake eater hasnt been able to have this go quite the way she wanted (she still isnt telling her family that we have even split) No shes made her bed she must lye in it - and move on I must do. If she looks in her heart shes bored with her domestic life and the best thing all round I believe would be for her to move on and leave me to look after our 12 year old alone - he needs at least 1 STABLE parent. Sad though it is, the woman I live with is a complete stranger to me now, an emotional wreck who can get a nights comfort in the arms of a stranger (her words not mine)
TaraMaiden Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 First of all she is shirking her responsibility. Has she spoken to the 12-year old? She should. This is her doing.... Secondly, statements like "I'll never find anyone as good as you" are there to pacify and ease her guilt, not your pain. By trying to make you 'feel better' about the situation, she's convincing herself she's being kind to you. She doesn't necessarily feel unkind towards you, but all this mollification is to let her off the hook (from feeling cruel and nasty) not you. Thirdly - take the bull by the horns. You advise her family of her actions. It's your right, they're your family too, and by her not telling them, it just excuses her guilt even more. What the eye doesn't see... I bet when you tell them (and I think you must) her true colours will show.... She will be angry for this, and demand to know why you told them. Your simple answer is - "If I know, they deserve to know. I told them, because you didn't. Why would that be, exactly?" Fourthly - 'comfort in the arms of a stranger'...? What is she, a hooker? Please, do me a favour! How gullible does she think you are? She doesn't intend to go sleeping around. She already has a lover, I would guess. And I would further guess he is far from 'a stranger'.... By the way, UK law gives a fiddler's elbow about adultery. The marriage has irretrievably broken down. To divorce her on the grounds of adultery would require she slept with a definite third party for sure, and has admitted doing so (although they would not be named in the divorce petition, as that would open up a whole can of litigational worms). The courts need a legally reasonable ground for divorce, but providing both parties agree on the grounds, they don't give a damn what that reason is, if it's uncontested. The law does NOT necessarily favour the mother. The Law requires that parents act in the best interests of the children. Your eldest is old enough by law to make her own decisions. Your youngest would be subject to placing by Law if the parents cannot reach an agreement. The law would then step in and decide on the parents' behalf. All property is equally divisible. 50-50. That's it and dusted. If you remain in the home, and it is in joint names, you will have to re-finance to give her half the value. Or sell up, and buy a smaller property, or even move back to the UK. If parties cannot come to an agreement, once again, the courts - and solicitors will decide what goes where and to whom. Expensive. Try to sort this aspect out yourselves. Good luck.
boldjack Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 First thing is that you do NOT want to leave your kids in her custody, without you being there. You would be putting them at risk. What if she brings home some loser, who abuses your kids? You should tell her that you are perfectly willing for her to leave and for her to spend time with the kids, in the family home, but that you are NOT going to leave them with her unsupervised. If she wants to be free, let her. Do nothing for her at all, and only acknowledge her when she is with the children.
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