Jersey Shortie Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I was just listening to a local radio station. The topic was about when men mature. There were alot of men that called up that were bragging about how they didn't mature until much later and how sometimes men never mature. These men seemed proud of themselves for it and like it should take men until they are will into adulthood before they started acting like adults. Now, to me acting like an adult doesn't mean you stop doing fun things. But it does mean you treat people with respect and grow up. Now there were a few guys that called in that were in their 20s and said that they were mature and that they didn't understand why they shouldn't be. They said some of their friends still live at home and don't want to grow up. Here is my question, why do men think that not "maturing" or not maturing until later in life is something to be proud of or something that women should think is attractive? If I had a choice between a mature man in his 20s and one that took until his 40s to mature, I would rather take the 20 year old mature one! Maybe this is part of the issue with society? That both men and women today don't want to be "mature". That to be "mature" is a dirty word for both genders? I don't want to turn this into a thread about older men dating younger women. There are plenty of those. THis is just about maturity in men and why these men were proud about them not being mature. I personally didn't get the men calling in that sounded proud of their immaturity or their refusal to grow up. Do you think men today are more or less mature? Do you think our societies general "all about me attitude" as made us better or worse? I am open to the topic of women's lack of maturity. But if you want to talk about the lack of maturity in women, please start a different thread. This hsould just be about the men. I also have another question for men. Do you evulate and judge other men by their maturity or lack of? Is your respect for other men based on that or other factors? Also, have other poeple experience this mind-set where men seem to be proud of their inability to be mature? Lots of questions here.
Art_Critic Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 JS.. mature or immature the success to happiness within ones self is if we are happy with who we are at any given time.. If I look at all the periods in my life that marked changes in maturity I look back and also see that I was happy with who I was.. Women by the way also can show signs of immaturity.. Some of the worst GF's I ever had trashed the relationship over their immaturity to not be able to deal with mature items in my life.. Like my business for example I actually had a GF once that tried to get me to quit and sell my business and move closer to family..( that was in my 20's by the way..) That was possibly one of the most immature things she came out with.. She totally didn't understand the responsibility of being an employer and she was one year older than me
Art_Critic Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I am very, very mature Did you ever just shave half your face ?
burning 4 revenge Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Did you ever just shave half your face ? I decided on the handlebar mustache, thank you for asking Art
Author Jersey Shortie Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 Did you even read my post Art Critic? I said women can be immature too and that if you wanted to make this a discussion about immature women, then please start another thread. More then have your post was about your experience with immature women. You didn't address one question I asked.
burning 4 revenge Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Did you even read my post Art Critic? I said women can be immature too and that if you wanted to make this a discussion about immature women, then please start another thread. More then have your post was about your experience with immature women. You didn't address one question I asked. Someone isnt getting enough fiber in her diet
ADF Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 This is a very interesting--and very complicated--topic. I think men who seem to take pride in being overgrown teenagers are those who are ambivelant about taking on the responsibilities traditionally associated with becoming adults. They don't want to marry. They don't want children. Often, they don't even want commited relationships or demanding careers. They don't want these things because they see no advantage to them. In some societies, a man who fails to marry, who fails to have children, or who fails to secure a career is a pariah. Doing those things is required for him to achieve full personhood. Men in the US are under no such pressure. They can weigh their options, make a cost-benefit analysis. And, this being a relatively free society, many decide, "to heck with it."
Art_Critic Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 That's a pretty mature reply JS.. did you ever hear the saying that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar ? How can you make a statement about YOU dating older or younger men.. you are tying age to maturity but then you say you don't want to make this a thread about dating younger or older women ? I don't think that when a man matures is something to brag about.. it never was in my life anyhow.. I also don;t think it is something that woman should find attractive.. now the ability to accept responsibility.. which comes with maturity IS something that woman find attractive and I think that is because there are some pretty dumb not responsible guys out there and women look in the other direction of what they don't want. If I had a choice between a mature man in his 20s and one that took until his 40s to mature, I would rather take the 20 year old mature one! I don't want to turn this into a thread about older men dating younger women. There are plenty of those. THis is just about maturity in men and why these men were proud about them not being mature.
Author Jersey Shortie Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 I certainly wasn't an immature response Art Critic, even if it was more vinegar then honey. I am trying to keep the topic on discussion about a man's view about his own maturity and the maturity of other men. I don't want to make this another topic about dating younger or older people because we have plenty of those. Men called into the station and were bragging about not being mature. I am curious why this would make men feel good. And I never said women weren't attracted to maturity.
DCchillin Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 A friend of mine once told me about the difference between a guy and a man, a man meaning they will hold the door for women, and be respectful and polite. A guy being the kind that drinks with his buddys and watches football with a beer hat on sundays. This is a very similar discussion to the mature thing. Basically a guy is immature, and a man is mature. Now the main reason guys were bragging about being immature, is because they are immature, a mature guy would not look at an immature one and think they are cool. Also you have to remember that even men should have a little guy in them. If a mature guy does some immature stuff every once in a while it's healthy. So if you see a guy messing around with his buddys you shouldn't necessarily put of by, just know that the best men need to be guys sometimes
Art_Critic Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Men called into the station and were bragging about not being mature. I am curious why this would make men feel good. I really don't know.. The makers of those JackAss Movies were pretty immature and they did brag and got off on the dumb things they did... Maybe some of those guys calling in were mixing up maturity for acting young.. Guys are not the most complex of creatures.. I know when I was younger I thought Drinking lots and getting in trouble was cool.. I don't think it was immaturity as much as I didn't really understand that what I was doing wasn't even cool.. I just thought it was.. I will say though that I wasn't trying to impress the opposite sex as much as I was trying to impress my friends.. I was also trying to impress my Dad.. for some reason I thought that was a cool thing to do as well..
DCchillin Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 oh yeah, to more specifically answer you question, immature guys brag about it because they want to have an excuse for being immature so they say it's cool
ADF Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Part of this immature-and-proud-of-it nonsense goes back to some of the stupider ideas floating around about masculinity. Many of the markers of male maturity are inconsistent with being a "real man" as some men understand it. For example: "Real men" aren't intellectual. That means being a real man is inconsistent with academic achievment. "Real men" bed lots of women. That means real men aren't suppsoed to want committed relationships. "Real men" are independent. That means real men don't want to be "tied down" by having children. "Real men" are strong. That means they aren't allowed to open up to people, which makes them sem cold and distant. You get the idea.
Author Jersey Shortie Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 Thank you both for those commentaries. DC, I think I get what your saying and agree. I have no problem with a mature guy having a little "guy" in him and wanting to goof around sometimes. I just don't get wanting to brag about being immature. Heck, I still love to carve pumpkins and be a goofball myself sometimes even though you would never know it from my postings here.
Nikki Sahagin Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 I think that the 'me, me, me society' has definately affected the maturity of many and not just men. I think however that for many men there is a stigma attached to being 'mature'. Maturity connotes boring/routine for some. Immaturity is associated with childhood/adolescence which many people relate to being a fun and free time. Maturity is associated with adulthood; a time of responsibility and duty. The child is immature. The parent is mature. I guess some people find the concept of maturity boring. I struggle with this myself because I think i'm very mature overall but it seems everyone of my own age group is 50 steps behind me. I see more to life than drinking and partying and sex and they are still very much in that stage of enjoying life's 'shallow' pleasures but they don't really want to think too much or ask too many questions. They don't want to know about religion or politics or literature. Of course this isn't true of all of my friends. The people I know from uni are all very mature overall but my friends that didn't go seem to lack a certain maturity (now this sounds like a slant at those that didn't go to uni but I just mean in my friendship groups!) I think maturity comes from what you experience and what you expose yourself to. If you learn, if you live, if you expose yourself to knowledge: you will mature. If you are ignorant and don't dig deeper, you will maintain a level of immaturity. Seeing as we are talking about men I think men are less mature today only because back then people got married younger, there were wars, people HAD TO mature quicker to survive. But in the modern world, you can survive and even THRIVE by being stupid, uneducated, 'cute', ignorant, 'silly' , just look at our culture which celebrates the uneducated and the untalented.
Pedigree Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 I think that the 'me, me, me society' has definately affected the maturity of many and not just men. Probably not so much the 'me, me, me' society as the whole "youth culture" thing. At 21, I go to a party, dance like an idiot, get intoxicated, flip off the camera, get that placed on facebook, and think that that's age appropriate for me. The thing is, I've seen people who are at least in their mid-30's (thinning hair, increased flabbiness age lines) doing that and I honestly would be embarassed if that's what I'll be doing in 14 years.
Ross PK Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) Here is my question, why do men think that not "maturing" or not maturing until later in life is something to be proud of or something that women should think is attractive? If I had a choice between a mature man in his 20s and one that took until his 40s to mature, I would rather take the 20 year old mature one! Maybe this is part of the issue with society? That both men and women today don't want to be "mature". That to be "mature" is a dirty word for both genders? Because being 'mature' is usually equalled with boring. I also have another question for men. Do you evulate and judge other men by their maturity or lack of? Is your respect for other men based on that or other factors? I dunno, I guess I'd have respect for them equally, but I'd find the guy who isn't all 'mature' a lot more appealing. If someone was really immature though, like if a guy acted more like he was about 8, then he'd seem like an idiot. Also, have other poeple experience this mind-set where men seem to be proud of their inability to be mature? Lots of questions here. I'm very proud of the fact that I'm really young for my age, I'm 33 but more like I'm in my early 20's. The last thing I'd want to be is some typical guy in his mid 30's sat in a chair wearing boring clothes with kids running around my feet, always acting 'sensible' and working at a boring mundane job. Edited October 30, 2009 by Ross PK
Author Jersey Shortie Posted October 30, 2009 Author Posted October 30, 2009 Yeah, but I am not saying that to be mature you have to be boring, or not go out and have fun. However, there is a lack of personal accountability and men seem to think it should make them endearing to act like over-extended frat boys. And no offense to you but saying you are 33 but want to think you are more like your early 20s is both an insecurity and ego trip at the same time. You are infact 33. That doens't mean you can't have fun, be young, or do exciting things. But you are not in your 20s and it's less attractive to see both men and women in their 30s wanting to pretend they are 20.
Ross PK Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) Yeah, but I am not saying that to be mature you have to be boring, or not go out and have fun. However, there is a lack of personal accountability and men seem to think it should make them endearing to act like over-extended frat boys. And no offense to you but saying you are 33 but want to think you are more like your early 20s is both an insecurity and ego trip at the same time. You are infact 33. That doens't mean you can't have fun, be young, or do exciting things. But you are not in your 20s and it's less attractive to see both men and women in their 30s wanting to pretend they are 20. I'm just being myself, and I'm more than happy with how I am as far as what we're talking about. That sounds like anything but insecure to me, and if being proud of the way you are means you're on an ego trip, then I'm on an ego trip. Oh and I'm not saying that middle age people in arm chairs never go out and have fun, I'm sure they do, sometimes... Edited October 30, 2009 by Ross PK
Author Jersey Shortie Posted October 30, 2009 Author Posted October 30, 2009 Yeah, I'm not too sure what you are talking about.
carhill Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 Do you evaluate and judge other men by their maturity or lack of? Is your respect for other men based on that or other factors? Also, have other poeple experience this mind-set where men seem to be proud of their inability to be mature?Yes, I do evaluate men everyday, in both business and my personal life and make decisions regarding my interactions with them based upon the maturity with which they face life. In fact, I choose customers that way. I take little pleasure in suffering the drama of little boys with grown-up penises. If I experience men acting immaturely, and they are friends, I look to situations and a pattern of behavior. None of us are perfect and we all have 'bad' days. If I see a consistent pattern, my respect diminishes and they get crossed off the list of people whom I give love and support. I saw a lot of that stuff ('I'll never grow up') and supporting actions when I was in my 20's and it led to an examination of myself and whether my expectations were unrealistic. As a result I chose to seek out and align myself with men on a path similar to myself and have been very satisfied with those friendships over the intervening decades. We each have our own path. Accept it and the paths of others. They all end up in the same place
deux ex machina Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 What was meant by "mature"? When I think of maturity, what I'm thinking of is someone that takes responsibility, and knows how to act appropriately at the right place and right time. Sometimes I see people who are unhappy, brittle, and have a giant stick up their ass call others 'immature', in reality it's them being pouty and unrealistic - these people are simply humorless and dull (and wish they could relax and have fun too, but are sadly repressed) - not mature. They help give the word 'maturity' negative connotations. ...I have no problem with a mature guy having a little "guy" in him and wanting to goof around sometimes. I just don't get wanting to brag about being immature. Heck, I still love to carve pumpkins and be a goofball myself sometimes even though you would never know it from my postings here. Exactly. In my case, this is a requirement.
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