627 Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 I am confused about where the line is here between nice too nice and rude I am sensitive about people's feelings, and I can really read women's minds sometimes concerning what is bothering them, so I'm always helping out, boosting self esteem, giving advice, helping with homework etc... (and no I am not fishing for a date or a long term relationship that way, but it was my idea of keeping possibilities opened) when it is so easy to make someone feel better or when you are good at something and you know someone needs your skills in that domains(for me it is almost everything ranging from computers to biology ) and it is easy to just help out, I simply do that but I am shocked that time and time again, I am taken for granted, I helped a girl out today with her cell phone, the process took 2 hours, instead of actualy thanking me for wasting my time and energy on this, she was nagging the whole time on the other hand, if I just stand there do nothing to no one, I feel practicly useless and totaly not special I feel as if being nice comes at the cost of respect, how exactly should I behave? should I intentionnaly avoid doingfavors when being asked? how does that work?
betamanlet Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 I am confused about where the line is here between nice too nice and rude I am sensitive about people's feelings, and I can really read women's minds sometimes concerning what is bothering them, so I'm always helping out, boosting self esteem, giving advice, helping with homework etc... (and no I am not fishing for a date or a long term relationship that way, but it was my idea of keeping possibilities opened) when it is so easy to make someone feel better or when you are good at something and you know someone needs your skills in that domains(for me it is almost everything ranging from computers to biology ) and it is easy to just help out, I simply do that but I am shocked that time and time again, I am taken for granted, I helped a girl out today with her cell phone, the process took 2 hours, instead of actualy thanking me for wasting my time and energy on this, she was nagging the whole time on the other hand, if I just stand there do nothing to no one, I feel practicly useless and totaly not special I feel as if being nice comes at the cost of respect, how exactly should I behave? should I intentionnaly avoid doingfavors when being asked? how does that work? Are you doing these things with expectations of things in return? If there's even the slightest chance, they won't feel bad about using you, because you are being dishonest yourself. Only help others for the real reason of helping them. Also, it sounds like you are dealing with helpless people, helpless women to be exact. They are the kind that feel entitled to having their situations fixed by someone else, so they aren't ever grateful for it. But again, you shouldn't be helping people even with an expectation of a thank you.. To be truthful, if your ulterior motive is to get these women, you'd have better luck telling them to screw off than helping them, they would respect you more.
Johnny M Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 I am confused about where the line is here between nice too nice and rude I am sensitive about people's feelings, and I can really read women's minds sometimes concerning what is bothering them, so I'm always helping out, boosting self esteem, giving advice, helping with homework etc... (and no I am not fishing for a date or a long term relationship that way, but it was my idea of keeping possibilities opened) when it is so easy to make someone feel better or when you are good at something and you know someone needs your skills in that domains(for me it is almost everything ranging from computers to biology ) and it is easy to just help out, I simply do that but I am shocked that time and time again, I am taken for granted, I helped a girl out today with her cell phone, the process took 2 hours, instead of actualy thanking me for wasting my time and energy on this, she was nagging the whole time on the other hand, if I just stand there do nothing to no one, I feel practicly useless and totaly not special I feel as if being nice comes at the cost of respect, how exactly should I behave? should I intentionnaly avoid doingfavors when being asked? how does that work? Your problem is that you think of yourself as only having value to others when you're doing something for them. In other words, you don't think that your company alone is of any use to anybody. This is typical insecure behavior and girls pick up on it instantly.
ADF Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 I am not fishing for a date or a long term relationship that way, but it was my idea of keeping possibilities opened Huh? That is a self-contradicting statment. You're not using your niceness to try and attract women--except you sort of are? I don't think you're being altogether honest with yourself about your motives. Look, I'm a nice guy, too. And there are lots and lots of advantages to being a nice guy. But being irresistable to women isn't one of them. Don't get me wrong--will women LIKE you because you're nice? Absolutely. Will they be ATTRACTED to you because your nice? Maybe. Sometimes. But more often not. Women don't owe it to us to find us attracted because we do nice things for them. It just doens't work that way. If people are taking advantage of you, don't let them. Being a pushover will not help you get anyone's respect.
boogieboy Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 Damn 627 you are a the epitome of doormat. That is too nice and its puke inducing. Let me see if you can grasp this concept: You arent supposed to offer your services to women like that. They didnt earn it. WHen you offer help, advise, services, making someone feel better...your pretty much telling them "You already have me wrapped around you finger and im not a challenge". Offering services is pretty much like offering them money to like you. Think of it that way. Ladies want to earn your attention. If you just give it away, wheres the value of you? Wheres the challenge? They dont want guys to do anything they say...no one wants that. Plus offering services is like buying dinner on the first date, you make them feel like they will have to owe you something, even if you dont think of it that way...and worst of all you are hoping that they will like you. Hey guess what, I'm good at fixing cars, giving advise, and fixing computers...but if a woman complains to me that she is having trouble with something, oh well, if youre not already a good friend, youre S.O.L. until were making out. I dont tell them that, I just keep my mouth shut when they complain...lol...then i change the subject to something fun. doya get it yet??
betamanlet Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 I offer law school advice to some chick I used to date a long time ago, I want nothing from her, and genuinely hope she does well. She makes me dinner and br ings me over some beer.. That's all I want. And I'm fine with it because I have no expectations, my motives are genuine.
Skump Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Until you internalize the belief that you are gifting a women by merely allowing her the privilege of enjoying of your company, you are hopeless. I can really read women's minds sometimes concerning what is bothering them, so I'm always helping out, boosting self esteem, giving advice, helping with homework etc... (opened) Stop. Doing. This. Think about what this behavior implies. Is your time worthless? No? Then stop acting as though it is. and no I am not fishing for a date or a long term relationship that way, but it was my idea of keeping possibilities So, in essence, you really do figure you can bribe a girl into being interested in you. Well, nope. (that is, unless the bribe is readily denominable in Benjamins, and by "interested" one means "be receptive to giving existentially meaningless sex for several years before filing divorce papers") See the first sentence of this post. Using "nice" as a way to generate interest is tantamount to admitting a lack of inherent personal value.
Author 627 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 my expectations go as follows: a thank you+ they remember it happening just a thank you why are people like that? sheesh I don't expect attraction or anything, I don't care if they date or dating someone else, I'm just saying that it seems being nice never sticks to anyone's brain, not even for a split moment
betamanlet Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 my expectations go as follows: a thank you+ they remember it happening just a thank you why are people like that? sheesh I don't expect attraction or anything, I don't care if they date or dating someone else, I'm just saying that it seems being nice never sticks to anyone's brain, not even for a split moment you cannot do ANYTHING in life expecting something in return, even a thanks. This goes even for holding doors. I hold doors because I was taught to, not to get gratitude for it. Otherwise you will go through life being bitter. When people say thanks I appreciate it.
Skump Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I don't expect attraction or anything, I don't care if they date or dating someone else, I'm just saying that it seems being nice never sticks to anyone's brain, not even for a split moment You know what the most valuable substance in the world is? Air. You can go for weeks without food, days without water, but you'd be dead in mere seconds without air. Now, how much time do people spend really thinking about how lovely, wonderful, and valuable air is? Gold is, by comparison, is intrinsically worthless. Oh, sure, it has a few uses in electronics and probably other areas I'm not familiar with. But by and large gold is a "mere" luxury. Now, how much time do people spend thinking about the value of gold?
Author 627 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 so no more free favors then unless I am aiming for something real... the edit function in this forum seems to never work I think I was disappointed enough times to learn my lesson edit: I always assumed the word thank you was invented to be used
ADF Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I'm just saying that it seems being nice never sticks to anyone's brain, not even for a split moment That's not so. There are plenty of people who appreciate someone who is nice to them. But it sounds to me like you are being nice in order to impose an obligation of gratitude on others. Don't do that. There is a concept in game theory called reciprocal altruism. In a nutshell, it means be nice to the people who are nice to you. Don't be nice to everybody then complain that not everyone is nice in return. Some people will return kindness with kindness. Others will interpret kindness as weakness, and try to take advantage of your generosity.
Johnny M Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 so no more free favors then unless I am aiming for something real... Man, you are hopeless....you just don't get it No free favors period!!! Doing a girl a 'favor' would not make her become attracted to you. Why is it so difficult to understand?
Author 627 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 it's not that I have high expectations but I'm telling you, I was fixing her cellphone for 2 hours, while she has been nagging me for 2 hours "what's taking so long, hurry up, it took you 30 min to get there?" what za hell, in the end she just took the cellphone, and this is not just some randome girl, I've known her for like 2 weeks(we work together...kinda (can't give much details, my location is already stated, it's a small country )) in other cases people only ask about me right before they ask for a favor this thread has been more about complaning than anything really. I doubt the problem is my really high expectations, I really feel that I am surrounded by just plain rude people again not looking for more attraction
D-Lish Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 , I am taken for granted, I helped a girl out today with her cell phone, the process took 2 hours, instead of actualy thanking me for wasting my time and energy on this, she was nagging the whole time That's too nice. You were being nice when you offered your help. You were being too nice when you stuck it out even though she nagged you and wasn't the least bit appreciative. That's the difference.
Vertex Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 There's nothing wrong with offering help, but it seems clear that you're coming across as someone who doesn't value himself and relies on others to validate that value. An assertive man who is helping someone out is not going to stand for nagging/whining when they are going out of their way to help. A doormat/"nice guy" tends to let others walk all over them. You need to demand a bit of respect from people, or they aren't worth keeping around.
Skump Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I am taken for granted, I helped a girl out today with her cell phone, the process took 2 hours, instead of actualy thanking me for wasting my time and energy on this, she was nagging the whole time Rofl. Okay, this thread is a troll, right? Right?
NopeNah Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Rofl. Okay, this thread is a troll, right? Right? Or a really weak "beta"
Odyssey Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 you cannot do ANYTHING in life expecting something in return, even a thanks. Ditto. i do something because I want to. But i don't think this is the OP's annoyance here. it's not that I have high expectations but I'm telling you, I was fixing her cellphone for 2 hours, while she has been nagging me for 2 hours..."what's taking so long, hurry up, it took you 30 min to get there?" what za hell, in the end she just took the cellphone, and this is not just some randome girl, I've known her for like 2 weeks(we work together...kinda I doubt the problem is my really high expectations, I really feel that I am surrounded by just plain rude people Well...i think the problem is, you let her treat you like that. You don't defend your boundaries man. When someone say/does something you don't like, you'll need to voice your concerns (no need to be rude). It's about being assertive not aggressive. There's a big difference i suggest you look it up. "You teach others, how to treat you".
Odyssey Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 i hope this doesn't turn into another nice guy / jerk thread again. i've said my peace...i'm outta here.
boogieboy Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 it's not that I have high expectations but I'm telling you, I was fixing her cellphone for 2 hours, while she has been nagging me for 2 hours "what's taking so long, hurry up, it took you 30 min to get there?" what za hell, in the end she just took the cellphone, and this is not just some randome girl, I've known her for like 2 weeks(we work together...kinda (can't give much details, my location is already stated, it's a small country )) in other cases people only ask about me right before they ask for a favor this thread has been more about complaning than anything really. I doubt the problem is my really high expectations, I really feel that I am surrounded by just plain rude people again not looking for more attraction They are not rude, you are a pushover. What are you gaining by being so nice to these people who dont appreciate what you are doing? You let them treat you this way and youre still nice to them, how is it you havent learned your lesson by now?
Author 627 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 They are not rude, you are a pushover. What are you gaining by being so nice to these people who dont appreciate what you are doing? You let them treat you this way and youre still nice to them, how is it you havent learned your lesson by now? I don't really let them push me around first favor is free, but for example this girl, I wouldn't do her anymore favors I always thought people are nice until proven otherwise, I'm thinking about changing that rule and yeah ok I won't do anyone any favors, thanks everyone for the advices
thegreatmoose Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 They are not rude, you are a pushover. What are you gaining by being so nice to these people who dont appreciate what you are doing? They most certainly are rude. He is also a pushover by continuing to help them when they are rude. Here is my ideal strategy becuase I like to help people too. Help them with something small first. If they don't appreciate it, never ever help that person again. If they do appreciate it, then start helping them with bigger things.
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