wheelwright Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 Before embarking on an EMA I did a poll among people I know, asking what is love? Many different answers. For some married people it boiled down to feeling comfortable. For some more jaded, love is a 'ridiculous construct'. For others a feeling in the gut that wrenched when apart from their H. For some, it is unconditional. For others it varies according to historical context. Or the relationship role. I am interested in love between partners. What is it? Is it what it is, or does it vary depending on the commitment?
ADF Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 I am not religious, but I think the Catholics actually got this one right. Love is something you do, not something you feel. No one loves someone every minute of every day. Even people we love to death drive us crazy soemtimes. And that's okay. We love them if we treat them with love. We cannot police our innermost thoughts. We can, however, police our actions towards others.
Author wheelwright Posted October 27, 2009 Author Posted October 27, 2009 Yes you are right. Love is a behaviour as well as a feeling. But I sure as hell don't think the two are divorced. What is the feeling that gives rise to the behaviour. You could treat someone respectfully without anything more than neighbourly love. Is neighbourly love it for you? And so you are saying that romantic love without commitment is valueless?
ladydesigner Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 Well I know there are different kinds of love. I think the love I have for my H is one of friendship and companionship. The love for my children is stronger than any love I have ever felt in my life. It is a a deep rooted love that protects and nurtures. The love I had for my XAP was a passionate frenzied love, an addictive love, one which drove me crazy.
Samantha0905 Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I'm a Christian, so the first thing I thought of is 1 Corinthians 13. "Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. Love bears all things; believes all things; hopes all things; endures all things." I think a mature and true love for someone else involves putting their needs before your own. It involves continuous work and patience. It involves sharing laughter, grief and all sorts of other emotions -- some good, some bad. It involves understanding your partner is not perfect and cannot make you happy. It involves continuing to love someone when they are not especially lovable. True love involves wanting the best thing for your partner, even if it's not so great for you. I think it changes over time and develops in many different ways. I know when my mother passed away, I saw true love between her and my father. She was so worried about who would help take care of him once she was gone and he was so concerned with what she was going through. The sadness in both of their eyes at the thought of not being with each other anymore was almost more than I could endure to witness. They were married 50 years and had 14 children and I know they had true love.
Susmay Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I quite like Shakespeare's Sonnet No 116 - not really sure if I agree but it sounds good in principle. "Let me not to the marriage of true minds Admit impediments. Love is not love Which alters when it alteration finds, Or bends with the remover to remove: O no! it is an ever-fixed mark That looks on tempests and is never shaken; It is the star to every wandering bark, Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken. Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks Within his bending sickle's compass come: Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks, But bears it out even to the edge of doom. If this be error and upon me proved, I never writ, nor no man ever loved."
ADF Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 And so you are saying that romantic love without commitment is valueless? I wouldn't use the word "valueless." But I wouldn't use the word "love," either, in reference to such relationships. Romantic love without commitment is self-limiting. No Strings Attached, Friends With Benefits--these are basically relationships based on mutual use, not mutual caring. How far can they go, really? Now there are some situations where people actually want such self-limiting relationships. But I think those people are usually men (not always), and usually pretty young (again, not always).
Author wheelwright Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 'Romantic love without commitment is self-limiting. No Strings Attached, Friends With Benefits--these are basically relationships based on mutual use, not mutual caring. How far can they go, really?' Have you had this kind of relationship? I hate the friends with benefits line because it demeans something I felt was out of this world. And I cared. Not sure he did. But yes, how far can it go is right. It will go nowhere without commitment. I think the idea of mutual caring is important. But I feel this for my friends, so it does not define 'love' for a partner. Unless that is just a form of love friendship.
ADF Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I have had FWB relationships when I was younger. I wouldn't do it now. My tolerance for ambiguity has lessened as I've grown older. Let me say something here I've said elsewhere. I think FWB relationships are particularly bad for women. They can be bad for men, too. But more often, they are bad for women. The reason is many women enter into FWB relationships in the hopes they will grow into something deeper. But that almost never happens. What women often don't realize is that from the male point of view, FWB is the ultimate win-win, have-my-cake-and-eat-it-too situation. The man gets frequent sex with a woman he likes, plus the companionship her friendship provides. However, he doesn't have to shoulder any of the responsibilities of a real relationship. He has no incentive whatsoever to get more serious. On the contrary, if a man's FWB decies she wants more, 9 times out of 10, he will end the relationship.
Author wheelwright Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 'It involves understanding your partner is not perfect and cannot make you happy. It involves continuing to love someone when they are not especially lovable. True love involves wanting the best thing for your partner, even if it's not so great for you.' I can see I will feel compelled to answer many answers here. I agree there is something that involves wanting the best for the person. But again I feel like this about all friends, not to mention everyone on Earth. So there must be more than this to 'love'. What distinguishes love?
MizzBlue72 Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 To me, to be truly loved, you must give love - and yes, it must be unconditional. Love IS actions as other posters have said. Love can cure everything - BUT - you have to be willing to place love, the actions, the feelings, and love itself above all else. In relationships, especially marriages, this is forgotten a LOT. Couples hold grudges, pose extremely high if not impossible standards on each other and if they are not met, they feel they are not loved. I do not believe this is true at all. If you TRULY love a partner - then it IS unconditional. It IS kind. It DOES bear all things and it never ever ever fails. To accomplish this though - you HAVE TO do the foot work, just like a garden. You have to plant the seeds, water them, give them what they need, weed out things (problems) and realize that if love is TRULY the most important thing - this will overcome. To me, this is the ideal, to have a truly unconditional love.
Author wheelwright Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 I Like the poetry. And it hits home. When I married my H I looked for poems that would resonate. I bought books, but not one poem resonated. I thought it was because we were 'different'. When i met MM, so many poems in the books felt true. I find it in teresting that people resonding on this thread use poems. Like love is not something everyday people can describe.
Fallen Angel Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Love is opening up your very soul to someone else, and trusting that they will take care of it as though it is their own, because that is what you are willing to do for them.
Author wheelwright Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 This may be my last post. because I agree with what you last wrote. I love him, but I know when we have a proper discussion he did not love me. He did not care about me. Love has to have caring in its remit. I would still like to know people's views, but I am cured of love. And I feel desolate as a cosequence.
ADF Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I think unconditional love is a myth. There are always conditions. With enough hard work and determination, you can alienate anybody.
NoIDidn't Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I can't talk about love without mentioning its many other companions: respect, trust, companionship, sexual attraction (in appropriate relationships), admiration, and so on. Most of the time no one mentions love by itself. I think that implies that love by itself is not enough. I read Fallen's response and felt she was speaking more to trust than to love in being willing to be so vulnerable. So, see why I don't think we can talk about love by itself. Love drives us to trust others, to care for strangers, to do the craziest of things, to do the most compassionate of things. Love doesn't seem to stand alone very well.
Fallen Angel Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 This may be my last post. because I agree with what you last wrote. I love him, but I know when we have a proper discussion he did not love me. He did not care about me. Love has to have caring in its remit. I would still like to know people's views, but I am cured of love. And I feel desolate as a cosequence. Desolation means barrenness, uninhabited area.... It's antonym is civilization.... Civilization.. that is a goal we both need to work towards.. filling our lives full of people who want to share them with us.. people worthy of sharing our worlds... you too are worthy of love, true love... it will come for us both, when we learn to love ourselves again... (trust ourselves to protect our own souls)
miss_sapphire Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I honestly think love means different things to different people, and that there are many different kinds of love. To me, love (for a partner) is, first and foremost, feeling a connection. Love is being comfortable enough with the other person to show your true colour. Love is wanting to be with this other person for the rest of your life, but if that is not in his best interest you are willing to let him go however much it hurts you. Love is guiding him to be the best person he can be. Love is wanting to have his children. Love is wanting him to be happy, because seeing that he's happy makes you happy. Love is lust with emotional attachments. Love is knowing his flaws but overlooking them anyway. Love is staring at the pimple on his face and his receding hairline and thinking he's the best looking man in the world. Love brings bliss, but love can also hurt. Love makes you do crazy things and think irrational thoughts. Love is simple and complicated at the same time. Love is many many things simultaneously.
Samantha0905 Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I think unconditional love is a myth. There are always conditions. With enough hard work and determination, you can alienate anybody. Do you have children? Unconditional love exists.
ADF Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Do you have children? Unconditional love exists. Well, you may unconditionally love your children. However, children and parents can become estranged. It happens.
Fallen Angel Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Well, you may unconditionally love your children. However, children and parents can become estranged. It happens. I will raise my hand to attest to that, however as a mother, I can not imagine that there is anything one of my children could do to make me stop loving them, except perhaps to harm one of my other children irrepairably. (sp?) ((sorry not only can't i spell, but I am so tired, and staying here to stop myself from emailing him and asking him to delete the first email without reading it *which he would do for me* ))
joyz Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) I am interested in love between partners. What is it? i think the Dalai lama said it best... "it is about developing a mutual admiration of someone, a deep respect and trust and awareness of another human's needs" Edited October 28, 2009 by joyz
herenow Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I am interested in love between partners. What is it? i think the Dalai lama said it best... "it is about developing a mutual admiration of someone, a deep respect and trust and awareness of another human's needs" Yes, H.H. the Dalai Lama is a wise man. I had the pleasure of lunching with him in Malibu a couple of years ago. Needless to say, I was speechless as I sat there in his presence. I wish I could figure out how to have that kind of peace and calm in my life on a daily basis. Back to the point, he did say it best in this quote.
NowhereToHide Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I used to believe that love was something that would consume me, strengthen me, encourage me, fulfill me. Somewhere along the line I got jaded and I think I may have settled for security and comfort, I'm not sure. But I'm starting to believe again that the kind of love that can transform a person really does exist.
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