Developing intimacy and passion......

[SoulStorm]

If you're going to question my faith, all I can give back to you is my belief and so......

 

Thanks for your input though!

 

And as a side note to my "internet friend" on here who is Jewish, I believe the Jews are God's chosen people. Not that you asked. I look forward to seeing you in heaven one day!!

 

 

James 5:16

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

 

 

Since you believe so much in scripture. God will not forgive you for not going to the one you have wronged first, then you may ask His forgiveness.

You think you are forgiven because you asked God for forgiveness..but you haven't asked your husband. I could be wrong, but scripture does tell you to ask forgiveness first from those you have wronged before God can even look at forgiving you.

 

And not feeling guilty for cheating on your husband seems a little self righteous and entitled. Not good.

[boldjack]

Very good post SS, This poster is continuing to deceive her husband and makes all sorts of excuses, for not being honest with him. She is self absorbed, in her own wants and needs and simply pays lip-service to her family. I'm afraid that she will be one of those people , who have to learn the hard way, that honesty isn't a matter of opinion, but a builder of character. It's really a shame, that she is so deluded. If she really read her Bible, she would know different. I'm not a religious man, myself, but Ive read the Bible through several times and can find nowhere that it says that you can be forgiven, without honesty.

[Samantha0905]

James 5:16

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

 

 

Since you believe so much in scripture. God will not forgive you for not going to the one you have wronged first, then you may ask His forgiveness.

You think you are forgiven because you asked God for forgiveness..but you haven't asked your husband. I could be wrong, but scripture does tell you to ask forgiveness first from those you have wronged before God can even look at forgiving you.

 

And not feeling guilty for cheating on your husband seems a little self righteous and entitled. Not good.

 

I do believe in scripture. I'm not perfect (obviously!). I believe James 5:16 and if you look it up in a commentary(ies) you will see the context. I do think context is important -- and I'm not saying you've done it -- but I think there is a tendency, in general (myself included), at times to cherry pick Bible voices to make a point and sometimes meaning within context gets distorted.

 

I do know I am hindering my relationship with God by not confessing the sin (adultery) to my husband. This does NOT in any way means I'm not forgiven by God. The verse's intent -- in my understanding and upon reading commentaries -- is to encourage Christians to be more Christ-like in their dealings with one another. The more Christ-like we are in our lives, the closer our relationship with God and the more effectual our prayer life. The chapter encourages believers to pray for one another and be more Christ-like.

 

Obviously, as I've pointed out previously, I have let my personal relationship with God weaken by not maintaining it in a manner in which I should. I know this. I pray about it. I have repeatedly said at this point in time, I'm not going to tell my husband. Perhaps one day I will if I feel led to do so. That is something that will be worked out between me and God.

 

I do not, however, feel intimacy and passion within my marriage cannot be worked on in any way unless I confess to my husband -- which is what some here seem to think.

 

Finally, I said I felt very sad over my actions towards my husband. I wish I had not committed the affair. I'm not wracked with guilt because I've already prayed for forgiveness. I'm still feel very saddened by my actions. I cry about it still because I feel badly, even though I know without a doubt I'm forgiven. I understand the seriousness of my actions and the harm caused to my marriage.

 

I'm certainly not self-righteous and certainly do not to intend to sound that way. It's difficult to discuss one's faith on an internet message board, and sometimes just bringing up the subject of God brings out hostility in people. I am simply expressing my feelings.

[Samantha0905]

Very good post SS, This poster is continuing to deceive her husband and makes all sorts of excuses, for not being honest with him. She is self absorbed, in her own wants and needs and simply pays lip-service to her family. I'm afraid that she will be one of those people , who have to learn the hard way, that honesty isn't a matter of opinion, but a builder of character. It's really a shame, that she is so deluded. If she really read her Bible, she would know different. I'm not a religious man, myself, but Ive read the Bible through several times and can find nowhere that it says that you can be forgiven, without honesty.

 

You could read it until you're blue in the face and if you don't have faith, it can't possibly mean the same thing to you as it would to someone of faith.

 

In any event, being a Christian or believing in God, in general, does not imply perfection. Believers sin plenty, myself included.

 

As I am a Christian, I believe in the promise of John 3:16. Now I know why you scoffed at being washed by the blood of the lamb.

 

A person's faith is something very personal. My relationship with God is between me and God.

 

In any event -- off to spend a nice weekend with my husband. I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions.

[SoulStorm]

I do believe in scripture. I'm not perfect (obviously!). I believe James 5:16 and if you look it up in a commentary(ies) you will see the context. I do think context is important -- and I'm not saying you've done it -- but I think there is a tendency, in general (myself included), at times to cherry pick Bible voices to make a point and sometimes meaning within context gets distorted.

 

I do know I am hindering my relationship with God by not confessing the sin (adultery) to my husband. This does NOT in any way means I'm not forgiven by God. The verse's intent -- in my understanding and upon reading commentaries -- is to encourage Christians to be more Christ-like in their dealings with one another. The more Christ-like we are in our lives, the closer our relationship with God and the more effectual our prayer life. The chapter encourages believers to pray for one another and be more Christ-like.

 

Obviously, as I've pointed out previously, I have let my personal relationship with God weaken by not maintaining it in a manner in which I should. I know this. I pray about it. I have repeatedly said at this point in time, I'm not going to tell my husband. Perhaps one day I will if I feel led to do so. That is something that will be worked out between me and God.

 

I do not, however, feel intimacy and passion within my marriage cannot be worked on in any way unless I confess to my husband -- which is what some here seem to think.

 

Finally, I said I felt very sad over my actions towards my husband. I wish I had not committed the affair. I'm not wracked with guilt because I've already prayed for forgiveness. I'm still feel very saddened by my actions. I cry about it still because I feel badly, even though I know without a doubt I'm forgiven. I understand the seriousness of my actions and the harm caused to my marriage.

 

I'm certainly not self-righteous and certainly do not to intend to sound that way. It's difficult to discuss one's faith on an internet message board, and sometimes just bringing up the subject of God brings out hostility in people. I am simply expressing my feelings.

 

It is not the bringing up of the subject of God that brings out the hostility, it is the seemingly lack of remorse and you encompassing God with it. Saying He has forgiven you and what you have done to your husband is washed away. It is not. You are in God's permissive will, where He acknowledges you seek forgiveness for your wrong, yet you are not in His perfect will in seeking His forgiveness for the act of betrayal because it was not only God you wronged..you wronged your husband too.

 

Confessing your fault is meant how you say in your previous post,but you still have to confess. Confessing to Christians so prayer can be put into place. You have a fault, a serious one, Is your husband a Christian?

[boldjack]

I was under the impression that if you put somebody on your ignore list, neither party could read the posts of the other. I put this OP on my list, because I'm finished with her and her selfishness, but apparently she can still read my posts. Samantha, please put me on your ignore list. We have nothing to say to each other.

[boldjack]

That was my initial point, SS. This poster is invoking the Name of God, to justify continuing to do evil. I would probably be more religious, if people didn't use the name of God , to committ crimes and to deceive.

[SoulStorm]

That was my initial point, SS. This poster is invoking the Name of God, to justify continuing to do evil. I would probably be more religious, if people didn't use the name of God , to committ crimes and to deceive.

 

I can understand your point boldjack, about people hiding behind God and using Him out of context.

It is people who have the fault..not God. I'm not one to be a preacher, but forgiveness takes a lot more from God than people think. There is grace and mercy and all of that, but it is not to be used as a crutch, it has to be taken in context. God forgives, but if you are lying, what do you expect Him to forgive?

 

Like one poster said :

There is lying by commission and omission, both are deceptive.

[WalkInThePark]

Thankfully , the last thing. You can't build honesty on a lie, no matter how many CD's, e-mails and excuses you give. And I'm not angry. I sincerely pity you and your poor husband. Bye.

 

I tend to agree with you.

I actually think that not telling about the A, is manipulation. If my partner would have an A, I would find it 100x worse that he hides it from me than the A itself. And if I would have had an A while being in a R, it would kill me to carry that secret with me. But I think it is highly unlikely that I would have an A while being in a R, because I am unable not to tell my significant other what bothers me.

[mem11363]

How do you get a man who is somewhat closed off emotionally/verbally to open up? Is it hard? Sure seems like if you can pull this off - you will have a wonderful marriage.

 

Sure hope he realizes just how much better it is to engage with you, then it is to watch tv....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I tend to agree with you.

I actually think that not telling about the A, is manipulation. If my partner would have an A, I would find it 100x worse that he hides it from me than the A itself. And if I would have had an A while being in a R, it would kill me to carry that secret with me. But I think it is highly unlikely that I would have an A while being in a R, because I am unable not to tell my significant other what bothers me.

[Samantha0905]

How do you get a man who is somewhat closed off emotionally/verbally to open up? Is it hard? Sure seems like if you can pull this off - you will have a wonderful marriage.

 

Sure hope he realizes just how much better it is to engage with you, then it is to watch tv....

 

Thank you. Yes, I know it will be difficult. I'd certainly much rather engage with him. Maybe if I can just get him to do a bit more out and about, that will become a habit (or even stress release) instead.

 

Morning everyone!

 

We've both had a very nice weekend together so far. The game with friends was a lot of fun, he's been talking to me more and even stayed on the couch beside me last night to watch a movie. There's more talking going on -- not just heavy stuff -- before we go to bed at night also and he's also been hugging me a lot more as we go to sleep.

 

I know it's just a start, but I'm looking forward to our weekend away next weekend.

 

I appreciate all the helpful advice.

 

In the future, I'll keep my relationship with God as far as my forgiveness is concerned where it belongs -- between me and God.

 

As for "ignoring" someone, I think the best way to do it would be not to read that person's thread and post vitriol in it. I mean -- you've obviously stated your point, we discussed it and came to the conclusion we don't share the same opinion. Then, you've re-stated your point a lot and we've also discussed the fact you are re-stating the same point over and over and I still don't agree with it and don't plan to act on it. If that changes, I will announce it.

 

Another suggestion as to how to "ignore" a person is to discontinue PMing said person with caustic messages repeatedly and announcing you will not be speaking to them anymore. By the way, I perfectly understood when you said that in the first PM, so no need to be repetitive in that area either.

 

 

It's a beautiful day here -- sunny -- and more football and golf is on the agenda.

 

Have a great day everyone!!

[SoulStorm]

In the future, I'll keep my relationship with God as far as my forgiveness is concerned where it belongs -- between me and God.

 

As you should. I'm just pointing out things that you already know you should not overlook.

 

Good luck

[Samantha0905]

As you should. I'm just pointing out things that you already know you should not overlook.

 

Good luck

 

I appreciate your input and the fact you took the time to share your thoughts. I do think we disagree on some issues, but that is what it is and I found many of your points helpful and thought provoking.

[mem11363]

Sam,

I think he just plain and simple needs to spend a certain amount of time with you away from the tv - most days of the week.

 

I am not clingy and my wife sure as heck is not clingy - but we have good conversations about fun/interesting stuff many, many times a week. Just like you would have with your best friend - because she is my best friend.

 

While I am willing to talk to her about stressful and heavy stuff. I mostly initiate stuff that is fun or interesting. Last night after the rapture we just laid side by side and talked for an hour about random stuff - and teased each other and joked around.

 

This author wrote a book about the emotional transfer that happens in a conversation. And she talked about how each person has some net emotional reaction to it. They overall feel better for it, or more tense, or sad or just drained/exhausted.

 

My wife used to do this thing without meaning to. She would mention something that was potentially a serious issue/problem for me. The very mention of it would raise my stress level. She would then proceed to talk about other things while I was sitting there getting more wound up thinking when the hell is she going to tell me the outcome of.....

 

So I have just learned to smile and say - babe the suspense is killing me - I really, really want to know the outcome of "xxx". So tell me that first. Before I learned to do that, our conversations sometimes left me feeling tense and drained even though it did not need to be that way.

 

 

Thank you. Yes, I know it will be difficult. I'd certainly much rather engage with him. Maybe if I can just get him to do a bit more out and about, that will become a habit (or even stress release) instead.

 

Morning everyone!

 

We've both had a very nice weekend together so far. The game with friends was a lot of fun, he's been talking to me more and even stayed on the couch beside me last night to watch a movie. There's more talking going on -- not just heavy stuff -- before we go to bed at night also and he's also been hugging me a lot more as we go to sleep.

 

I know it's just a start, but I'm looking forward to our weekend away next weekend.

 

I appreciate all the helpful advice.

 

In the future, I'll keep my relationship with God as far as my forgiveness is concerned where it belongs -- between me and God.

 

As for "ignoring" someone, I think the best way to do it would be not to read that person's thread and post vitriol in it. I mean -- you've obviously stated your point, we discussed it and came to the conclusion we don't share the same opinion. Then, you've re-stated your point a lot and we've also discussed the fact you are re-stating the same point over and over and I still don't agree with it and don't plan to act on it. If that changes, I will announce it.

 

Another suggestion as to how to "ignore" a person is to discontinue PMing said person with caustic messages repeatedly and announcing you will not be speaking to them anymore. By the way, I perfectly understood when you said that in the first PM, so no need to be repetitive in that area either.

 

 

It's a beautiful day here -- sunny -- and more football and golf is on the agenda.

 

Have a great day everyone!!

[Samantha0905]

Sam,

I think he just plain and simple needs to spend a certain amount of time with you away from the tv - most days of the week.

 

I am not clingy and my wife sure as heck is not clingy - but we have good conversations about fun/interesting stuff many, many times a week. Just like you would have with your best friend - because she is my best friend.

 

While I am willing to talk to her about stressful and heavy stuff. I mostly initiate stuff that is fun or interesting. Last night after the rapture we just laid side by side and talked for an hour about random stuff - and teased each other and joked around.

 

This author wrote a book about the emotional transfer that happens in a conversation. And she talked about how each person has some net emotional reaction to it. They overall feel better for it, or more tense, or sad or just drained/exhausted.

 

My wife used to do this thing without meaning to. She would mention something that was potentially a serious issue/problem for me. The very mention of it would raise my stress level. She would then proceed to talk about other things while I was sitting there getting more wound up thinking when the hell is she going to tell me the outcome of.....

 

So I have just learned to smile and say - babe the suspense is killing me - I really, really want to know the outcome of "xxx". So tell me that first. Before I learned to do that, our conversations sometimes left me feeling tense and drained even though it did not need to be that way.

 

Yeah, I especially hate those draining and exhausting conversations with some people and understand exactly what you mean. I suppose most people do.

 

I'm starting to realize more and more my own problems here -- how I've contributed to things as they have been related to communication issues -- and I know I need to speak up more in a non-confrontational way to get what I want out of our interactions. Besides that, I know I need to emulate what I desire in our interactions.

 

I think we're making some progress. We spent the weekend together and had a really nice time. He invited me to lunch today and we sat there and chatted about fun stuff. I can tell he's really trying and that means a lot to me. Ever since I told him I wanted us to be more lighthearted and him not to have the world on his shoulders, his voice has actually picked back up to normal. For a while, he was actually dragging his voice as he was depressed. We're going to the movies this week -- which I know is like television away from the house -- -- but we will go to dinner also. This weekend it's the mountains.

 

He's being nice about me hiring movers to move the furniture from the apartment -- hasn't said anything negative at all -- and was even okay with me painting a room in the house to match the furniture. It will be my own chick den (ha,ha) when he's not there. Most of the house is dark and I'm making sure to make it bright and cheerful. He has a study, so he has his guy place.

 

Life seems in a flurry lately because things are coming up quickly -- going away to the mountains, then we're going to my sister's to visit her and her husband, then home and a ton of people over for Thanksgiving. An anniversary. A rivalry football game. Then, moving day.

 

I guess it's best everything is so busy right now because it makes me feel less sad about losing my apartment -- and yes, I have some hesitation about giving up my space I finally found for myself. I think that may be issues I have related to growing up in a house with 16 people, then immediately getting married.

 

At the back of my mind, I have worries about us not working this out and communication patterns returning to totally dysfunctional. I hated how lonely I ended up feeling. Plus, I still have sadness over what I've done. I miss the fairy tale I had with my affair partner in some sort of messed up way and, even though I've told him I'm moving back home, he continues to text he misses me.

 

I believe it was you who told me if he persists I probably need to set a date to just cut off communication permanently. I keep reiterating I'm moving back home and working on my marriage and want him to move on and be happy.

 

I suppose I'm pre-worrying, which I say I don't like to do, over whether or not my husband and I will be able to sort things out and be happily married. I suppose giving it my best shot is where my focus should lie and I should just go with that.

[Dexter Morgan]

You could read it until you're blue in the face and if you don't have faith, it can't possibly mean the same thing to you as it would to someone of faith.

 

In any event, being a Christian or believing in God, in general, does not imply perfection. Believers sin plenty, myself included.

 

but forgiveness comes to those who STOP sinning...not those who keep sinning.

 

you have not STOPPED deceiving your H and lying to him. If you were repentant and deserving of forgiveness, then you need to quit lying and be honest. Otherwise you are claiming to being forgiven for something you are still doing.

[mem11363]

No pre-worrying. Really between his Atlas routine and your pre-worrying you two are going to squander a wonderful opportunity to love each other like crazy.

 

As for the AP he is destructive to you and your marriage.

 

Be honest now. If your marriage fails - which it won't - you will do the right thing and end it cleanly and then go find yourself a lover/husband.

 

But you simply cannot have it both ways. I will now put myself in your husbands shoes. If you returned to our house and were still communicating with your AP I would take that as an enormously disrespectful thing to me. You need to block this guy - if you bring him - his text messages and his residual emotion into your home you are breaking faith.

 

You are better then this.

 

I am rooting for you Sam - I am also starting to wonder if your sex life with your husband was as broken as your communication. Your comments are not in synch with your activities and his efforts. He is doing what you asked, you two are doing a lot of fun stuff together. And yet you are fearful of letting go of your AP.

 

I say this and mean it. If you cannot love your husband the way a woman loves her spouse then be compassionate and end it. Clearly money will not be a problem. But if this is simply a matter of comparing long term deep love to the passionate limerance of new love - then block this man and focus.

 

Why are you having such doubts?

 

 

Yeah, I especially hate those draining and

exhausting conversations with some people and understand exactly what you mean. I suppose most people do.

 

I'm starting to realize more and more my own problems here -- how I've contributed to things as they have been related to communication issues -- and I know I need to speak up more in a non-confrontational way to get what I want out of our interactions. Besides that, I know I need to emulate what I desire in our interactions.

 

I think we're making some progress. We spent the weekend together and had a really nice time. He invited me to lunch today and we sat there and chatted about fun stuff. I can tell he's really trying and that means a lot to me. Ever since I told him I wanted us to be more lighthearted and him not to have the world on his shoulders, his voice has actually picked back up to normal. For a while, he was actually dragging his voice as he was depressed. We're going to the movies this week -- which I know is like television away from the house -- -- but we will go to dinner also. This weekend it's the mountains.

 

He's being nice about me hiring movers to move the furniture from the apartment -- hasn't said anything negative at all -- and was even okay with me painting a room in the house to match the furniture. It will be my own chick den (ha,ha) when he's not there. Most of the house is dark and I'm making sure to make it bright and cheerful. He has a study, so he has his guy place.

 

Life seems in a flurry lately because things are coming up quickly -- going away to the mountains, then we're going to my sister's to visit her and her husband, then home and a ton of people over for Thanksgiving. An anniversary. A rivalry football game. Then, moving day.

 

I guess it's best everything is so busy right now because it makes me feel less sad about losing my apartment -- and yes, I have some hesitation about giving up my space I finally found for myself. I think that may be issues I have related to growing up in a house with 16 people, then immediately getting married.

 

At the back of my mind, I have worries about us not working this out and communication patterns returning to totally dysfunctional. I hated how lonely I ended up feeling. Plus, I still have sadness over what I've done. I miss the fairy tale I had with my affair partner in some sort of messed up way and, even though I've told him I'm moving back home, he continues to text he misses me.

 

I believe it was you who told me if he persists I probably need to set a date to just cut off communication permanently. I keep reiterating I'm moving back home and working on my marriage and want him to move on and be happy.

 

I suppose I'm pre-worrying, which I say I don't like to do, over whether or not my husband and I will be able to sort things out and be happily married. I suppose giving it my best shot is where my focus should lie and I should just go with that.

[Samantha0905]

No pre-worrying. Really between his Atlas routine and your pre-worrying you two are going to squander a wonderful opportunity to love each other like crazy.

 

You speaking of his Atlas routine made me smile. Thank you. I know and I do not want to squander it.

 

As for the AP he is destructive to you and your marriage.

Yes, I know this.

 

Be honest now. If your marriage fails - which it won't - you will do the right thing and end it cleanly and then go find yourself a lover/husband.

I know this and I even know when I think about it rationally my ex-AP would not even be a long term person for me if my marriage were to fail. There are a lot of differences in our personalities. He's definitely a glass half empty person and I'm an it's at least 3/4s full person.

 

He verbalizes prejudices against people because of their race and sexual orientation and I just don't have that in me. I love people. Obviously, I have faults also -- I'm just trying to think of things about him that make me think we wouldn't be good long term partners.

 

There are other things and I know people don't have to be 100% alike, but it's big stuff that I think would make us unsuccessful at a long term relationship.

 

He also can't keep a job to save his life. It's not just the economy. He gets fired. He gets mad and quits. Lately, he's just working here and there. I think his father helps him out with bills. He told me he isn't that concerned about long term security and is happy making it month to month. I'm not that way at all and I don't mean materialism. I just think there's something to be said for being responsible, motivated, etc. He blames his mom for making him feel inadequate and talking down to him as a child, but eventually we grow up and have to take control and accept responsibility. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic, but if it creates that much trauma in one's adult life it seems seeking help would be beneficial -- but he refuses to do that also. He just says life has screwed him in many ways. I think it's a negative thinking pattern.

 

I picked the polar opposite of my husband for my affair. I don't know what that means about me.

 

Even though my husband wishes our son isn't gay, he never has been the type of person to dislike people for being gay, another race, etc. Anyway, I'm rambling now.

 

 

But you simply cannot have it both ways. I will now put myself in your husbands shoes. If you returned to our house and were still communicating with your AP I would take that as an enormously disrespectful thing to me. You need to block this guy - if you bring him - his text messages and his residual emotion into your home you are breaking faith.

 

You are better then this.

I know. I agree and I won't allow that to happen. I will block him. I've told him I can't stay in touch with him AND work on my marriage and I am choosing to work on my marriage.

 

In some ways, it's like he's hanging around just in case I break and change my mind.

 

I am rooting for you Sam - I am also starting to wonder if your sex life with your husband was as broken as your communication. Your comments are not in synch with your activities and his efforts. He is doing what you asked, you two are doing a lot of fun stuff together. And yet you are fearful of letting go of your AP.

 

I say this and mean it. If you cannot love your husband the way a woman loves her spouse then be compassionate and end it. Clearly money will not be a problem. But if this is simply a matter of comparing long term deep love to the passionate limerance of new love - then block this man and focus.

 

Why are you having such doubts?

Our sex life has been a lack of attraction on my part, but I've been looking at my husband lately -- paying more attention -- and it's not like I don't know this -- he's a very handsome and caring man.

 

This is really personal, but I'm starting to acknowledge it's less a lack of attraction and more a lack of satisfaction on my part. My husband has a problem with erectile dysfunction in my opinion and it's been there since we were young marrieds. It's odd, I've never been able to discuss it with him. When we were younger, I didn't know that was the issue. I just thought sex wasn't all that. I didn't know what was more normal performance.

 

I know just last week when watching television there was one of the many commercials on about a drug for erectile dysfunction and he said he was glad he didn't have to deal with that issue. I immediately thought well you do have that issue, but I didn't voice it. I think I'm having more and more of an issue with trying to voice it because he has several times said, "I'm glad I don't have that problem" and through the years has never seen to notice it is a problem. Plus, I've never quite known how to say you don't keep an erection long enough for me to be satisfied without it sounding harsh. Maybe if we had been more open during sex from the beginning...... We both OBVIOUSLY had no idea what we were doing. I never wanted to wait until marriage to have sex, but that was -- yet again -- my husband doing what he thought was right in line with his religious beliefs and me wanting what I wanted right then. I have to say to this day I feel like there is no way in Hell I would ever marry someone again without having had sex with them first. My husband gets kudos for fine character, but I just would not make that choice again.

 

I don't know what the determination is for knowing medically if someone has that problem, but when we actually get to the intercourse part of sex I know I can literally count to 20 -- sometimes even less -- and it's over. I don't know if that is considered erectile dysfunction or if that term means someone can't get an erection at all. He can get one, but it lasts hardly any time at all once penetration occurs. Perhaps that is premature ejaculation. I'm not sure if there is a difference between the two and if the same medications are used for both conditions. Perhaps erectile dysfunction encompasses several types of dysfunction.

 

As far as I know, judging from my ex-AP, he must be taking something recreational because he seems abnormal the opposite way.

 

Anyway, that probably all sounds shallow and I think for years I didn't even realize there was an issue because we met at 14 and didn't have sex until we married. There had not been anyone else for either of us. By the time I was starting to think maybe this isn't normal, I was convinced I wasn't sexually attracted to my husband. Then, I didn't even want to talk to him about it because it was when Viagra and stuff like that was starting to be talked about more openly and I was worried he would take it and sex would last longer, which in my mind was the last thing I wanted as it would prolong me having to do something with someone I was convinced I wasn't attracted to at all.

 

I didn't even have an orgasm until I was around 30 and that was a self-assist. Why I didn't know that was possible is beyond me. I obviously never got the sex talk growing up. LOL My husband looked appalled when I told him I masturbated -- this was some time during our 30s. I think he thought that meant I didn't like what he was doing. Of course, I wasn't liking it -- but that's not my view on masturbation in general.

 

This all sounds like a job for Super Shrink (as in a psychiatrist.)

 

I know with my ex-AP I was totally open and lacked any inhibition so I don't think it's a sexual psychological problem in general for me -- but perhaps one with my husband and me together due to years of not understanding his problem. That's the self-analysis I'm coming up with lately anyway.

 

My husband did figure out, eventually, how to bring me to orgasm and/or I loosened up enough with him for that to happen -- so that's a good thing. I think we started so young, we didn't learn how to communicate sexually well as far as helping each other to know what to do to create satisfaction. He did also learn masturbation didn't have to be a solo activity. I'm sure I helped with that lesson. Plus, he even started appreciating toys. So progress.....

 

So -- I guess that's a big part of it? A lack of sexual communication. How sad is that? That should be something readily fixable if we had the communication skills of somewhat normal adults. Or if I did. I could have broached the subject, but I always think he will wonder how I know he isn't keeping an erection long enough? Or he will just think I'm incorrect. Or he knows and doesn't want to discuss the subject.

 

And before anyone jumps in -- yes, I know none of the above justifies the affair.

 

And I guess my doubts are really just me not wanting to be sexually dissatisfied for the rest of my life after having enjoyed it so much. I don't want to lay there in bed wishing I wasn't there.

 

I know what I was doing was wrong though. I know I love my husband. I know I love my children. I know I love us all together as a family.

 

I think, although I care about my ex-AP, a lot of the feelings that are there are guilt motivated because he is working me over having "broken his heart," "taken advantage of him," "knowingly deceived him." etc. I told him that if he felt that way after just knowing me since February, to imagine how my husband would feel about it if he knew. I'm not minimizing his broken heart, but I do think after having told him repeatedly I'm moving home and working on my family the message should be accepted. I understand he has the right to his emotions and I'm sure he has anger, but we both knew going in what our particular situations are and I think we both knew we were doing something wrong. He told me he knew that.

 

 

If the above was all an overshare, I apologize. It felt good to get it out of my system. I don't know how something so simple has become so difficult to communicate or become such a big problem over time. At least -- if not anything else -- I'm proud I typed it all out.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Samantha0905

[Samantha0905]

Here's an interesting article -- obviously a little dated as it refers to President Clinton's indiscretions -- but a good article regardless:

 

http://www.break-free-from-the-affair.com/articles/shattered_vows.htm

 

Interesting parts I feel are relevant for me:

 

The unfortunate thing is that the way a person is different in the affair would, if incorporated into the marriage, probably make their spouse ecstatic. But they believe they're stuck; they don't know how to create opportunity for change within the marriage. A woman who was sexually inhibited in marriage--perhaps she married young and had no prior partners--may find her sexuality in an affair, but her husband would probably be thrilled to encounter that new self.

 

How do you handle this?

 

After an affair, I do not ask the question you would expect. The spouse always wants to know about "him" or "her": "What did you see in her that you didn't see in me?" Or, "What did you like about him better?" I always ask about "you": "What did you like about yourself in that other relationship?" "How were you different?" and "Of the way that you were in that other relationship, what would you like to bring back so that you can be the person you want to be in your primary relationship? .... How can we foster that part of you in this relationship?"

 

That's a surprise. How did you come to know that's the question to ask?

 

There is an attraction in the affair, and I try to understand what it is. Part of it is the romantic projection: I like the way I look when I see myself in the other person's eyes. There is positive mirroring. An affair holds up a vanity mirror, the kind with all the little bulbs around it; it gives a rosy glow to the way you see yourself. By contrast, the marriage offers a makeup mirror; it magnifies every little flaw. When someone loves you despite seeing all your flaws, that is a reality-based love.

 

In the stories of what happened during the affair, people seem to take on a different persona, and one of the things they liked best about being in that relationship was the person they had become. The man who wasn't sensitive or expressive is now in a relationship where he is expressing his feelings and is supportive.

 

People seem to take on a different persona in an affair. One of the things they like best about the relationship is the person they have become.

 

Can those things be duplicated in the marriage?

 

That's one of the goals-not to turn the betrayed spouse into the affair partner, but to free the unfaithful spouse to express all the parts of himself he was able to experience in the affair.

 

I see a lot of men who are married to very competent women and having affairs with very weak women. They feel: "This person needs me." They put on their red cape and do a lot of rescuing. They feel very good about themselves. That makes me sad, because I know that even though their partner may be extremely competent, she wants to be stroked too. She wants a knight in shining armor. Perhaps she hasn't known how to ask.

 

I see a lot of men who are married to very competent women having affairs with very weak women.

 

Do people push partners into affairs?

 

No. People can create a pattern in the marriage that is not enhancing, and the partner, instead of dealing with the dissatisfaction and trying to work on the relationship, escapes it and goes someplace else.

 

That is the wrong way to solve the problem?

 

Yes. Generally when a woman is unhappy, she lets her partner know. She feels better because she's gotten it off her chest. It doesn't interfere with her love. She's trying to improve the relationship: "If I tell him what makes me unhappy, then he will know how to please me; I am giving him a gift by telling him."

 

Unfortunately, many men don't see it as a gift. They feel criticized and put down. Instead of thinking, "She feels lonely; I will move toward her and make her feel secure," they think, "What is wrong with her? Didn't I just do that?" They pull away. If they come in contact with somebody else who says to them, "Oh, you're wonderful," then they move toward that person. They aren't engaged enough in the marriage to work things out. The partner keeps trying and becomes more unpleasant because he's not responding.

 

She becomes a pursuer, and he becomes the distancer.

 

When she withdraws, the marriage is much further down the road to dissolution, because she's given up. her husband, unfortunately, thinks things are so much better because she's no longer complaining. He doesn't recognize that she has detached and become emotionally available for an affair. The husband first notices it when she becomes disinterested in sex--or after she's left! Then he'll do anything to keep her. That is often too little too late.

 

By then she is often committed to someone on the outside?

 

Yes, which is why when women have affairs, it's much more often a result of long-term marital dissatisfaction.

 

 

Did she choose the wrong mate?

 

She thinks so, especially if her affair partner is the opposite of her husband.

 

From your perspective, what's going on?

 

She's growing and changing, and she chooses somebody she sees as more similar to herself. Usually it's someone at work. Her husband may be working very hard in his profession or going to school and not paying much attention to her. She feels a little lonely, and then she gets involved. Or maybe her husband is very caring, and the relationship is so supportive and stable that it doesn't have a challenge for her.

 

 

But if she's married to the man with the power and the status, then she's interested in the guy who is sensitive and touchyfeely, who may not be as ambitious.

 

Is this just the nature of attraction?

 

It has to do with the fact that people really want it all. Probably the only way to get it all is to be in more than one relationship at the same time. We have different parts of ourselves.

 

The other flip-flop in choice of affair partner reflects the fact that the marriage often represents a healing of our family wounds. Somebody who lacked a secure attachment figure in their family of origin chooses a mate who provides security and stability. It's healthy to seek that balancing.

 

But after we've mastered that, we often want to go back and find somebody like the difficult parent and make that person love us. There is a correlation between the nature of the attachment figure and the affair partner; the person is trying to master incomplete business from childhood. As a result, some people will choose an affair partner who is difficult, temperamental, or unpredictable. Under those circumstances, the unfaithful partner is often caught in a triangle.

 

What do you mean?

 

The person maintains the marriage, and can't leave it, and maintains the affair, and can't leave that either. Tension arises when either the affair partner or spouse applies pressure on them to get off the fence. The spouse provides security and a sense of family, the affair partner excitement and passion. When the involved spouse says, "I don't know which person to be with," what they really want is to keep both.

 

The challenge is, how do people satisfy all of their needs within the marriage?

 

It is a false belief that if I'm incomplete, I have to be completed by another person. You have to do it through your own life, your own work, for your own pleasure, through individual growth. The more fulfilled you are, in terms of things that you do separately that please you, the more individuated and more whole you are--and the more intimate you can be. Then you're not expecting the other person to make you happy You're expecting the other person to join you in your happiness.

 

 

Interesting stuff. I felt that way at times during my affair. Thinking I needed both people to be complete, when it really had to do with me being happy so my husband and I can be happy together.

[mem11363]

Very insightful post in every sense. Ugh!!! The fact your husband lacks sexual self awareness must be very, very frustrating.

 

The sexual communication will be the hardest part of you two reconnecting. And he is just going to have to make the effort. Having an O should happen every time for you, or very nearly.

 

You speaking of his Atlas routine made me smile. Thank you. I know and I do not want to squander it.

 

Yes, I know this.

 

I know this and I even know when I think about it rationally my ex-AP would not even be a long term person for me if my marriage were to fail. There are a lot of differences in our personalities. He's definitely a glass half empty person and I'm an it's at least 3/4s full person.

 

He verbalizes prejudices against people because of their race and sexual orientation and I just don't have that in me. I love people. Obviously, I have faults also -- I'm just trying to think of things about him that make me think we wouldn't be good long term partners.

 

There are other things and I know people don't have to be 100% alike, but it's big stuff that I think would make us unsuccessful at a long term relationship.

 

He also can't keep a job to save his life. It's not just the economy. He gets fired. He gets mad and quits. Lately, he's just working here and there. I think his father helps him out with bills. He told me he isn't that concerned about long term security and is happy making it month to month. I'm not that way at all and I don't mean materialism. I just think there's something to be said for being responsible, motivated, etc. He blames his mom for making him feel inadequate and talking down to him as a child, but eventually we grow up and have to take control and accept responsibility. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic, but if it creates that much trauma in one's adult life it seems seeking help would be beneficial -- but he refuses to do that also. He just says life has screwed him in many ways. I think it's a negative thinking pattern.

 

I picked the polar opposite of my husband for my affair. I don't know what that means about me.

 

Even though my husband wishes our son isn't gay, he never has been the type of person to dislike people for being gay, another race, etc. Anyway, I'm rambling now.

 

 

I know. I agree and I won't allow that to happen. I will block him. I've told him I can't stay in touch with him AND work on my marriage and I am choosing to work on my marriage.

 

In some ways, it's like he's hanging around just in case I break and change my mind.

 

Our sex life has been a lack of attraction on my part, but I've been looking at my husband lately -- paying more attention -- and it's not like I don't know this -- he's a very handsome and caring man.

 

This is really personal, but I'm starting to acknowledge it's less a lack of attraction and more a lack of satisfaction on my part. My husband has a problem with erectile dysfunction in my opinion and it's been there since we were young marrieds. It's odd, I've never been able to discuss it with him. When we were younger, I didn't know that was the issue. I just thought sex wasn't all that. I didn't know what was more normal performance.

 

I know just last week when watching television there was one of the many commercials on about a drug for erectile dysfunction and he said he was glad he didn't have to deal with that issue. I immediately thought well you do have that issue, but I didn't voice it. I think I'm having more and more of an issue with trying to voice it because he has several times said, "I'm glad I don't have that problem" and through the years has never seen to notice it is a problem. Plus, I've never quite known how to say you don't keep an erection long enough for me to be satisfied without it sounding harsh. Maybe if we had been more open during sex from the beginning...... We both OBVIOUSLY had no idea what we were doing. I never wanted to wait until marriage to have sex, but that was -- yet again -- my husband doing what he thought was right in line with his religious beliefs and me wanting what I wanted right then. I have to say to this day I feel like there is no way in Hell I would ever marry someone again without having had sex with them first. My husband gets kudos for fine character, but I just would not make that choice again.

 

I don't know what the determination is for knowing medically if someone has that problem, but when we actually get to the intercourse part of sex I know I can literally count to 20 -- sometimes even less -- and it's over. I don't know if that is considered erectile dysfunction or if that term means someone can't get an erection at all. He can get one, but it lasts hardly any time at all once penetration occurs. Perhaps that is premature ejaculation. I'm not sure if there is a difference between the two and if the same medications are used for both conditions. Perhaps erectile dysfunction encompasses several types of dysfunction.

 

As far as I know, judging from my ex-AP, he must be taking something recreational because he seems abnormal the opposite way.

 

Anyway, that probably all sounds shallow and I think for years I didn't even realize there was an issue because we met at 14 and didn't have sex until we married. There had not been anyone else for either of us. By the time I was starting to think maybe this isn't normal, I was convinced I wasn't sexually attracted to my husband. Then, I didn't even want to talk to him about it because it was when Viagra and stuff like that was starting to be talked about more openly and I was worried he would take it and sex would last longer, which in my mind was the last thing I wanted as it would prolong me having to do something with someone I was convinced I wasn't attracted to at all.

 

I didn't even have an orgasm until I was around 30 and that was a self-assist. Why I didn't know that was possible is beyond me. I obviously never got the sex talk growing up. LOL My husband looked appalled when I told him I masturbated -- this was some time during our 30s. I think he thought that meant I didn't like what he was doing. Of course, I wasn't liking it -- but that's not my view on masturbation in general.

 

This all sounds like a job for Super Shrink (as in a psychiatrist.)

 

I know with my ex-AP I was totally open and lacked any inhibition so I don't think it's a sexual psychological problem in general for me -- but perhaps one with my husband and me together due to years of not understanding his problem. That's the self-analysis I'm coming up with lately anyway.

 

My husband did figure out, eventually, how to bring me to orgasm and/or I loosened up enough with him for that to happen -- so that's a good thing. I think we started so young, we didn't learn how to communicate sexually well as far as helping each other to know what to do to create satisfaction. He did also learn masturbation didn't have to be a solo activity. I'm sure I helped with that lesson. Plus, he even started appreciating toys. So progress.....

 

So -- I guess that's a big part of it? A lack of sexual communication. How sad is that? That should be something readily fixable if we had the communication skills of somewhat normal adults. Or if I did. I could have broached the subject, but I always think he will wonder how I know he isn't keeping an erection long enough? Or he will just think I'm incorrect. Or he knows and doesn't want to discuss the subject.

 

And before anyone jumps in -- yes, I know none of the above justifies the affair.

 

And I guess my doubts are really just me not wanting to be sexually dissatisfied for the rest of my life after having enjoyed it so much. I don't want to lay there in bed wishing I wasn't there.

 

I know what I was doing was wrong though. I know I love my husband. I know I love my children. I know I love us all together as a family.

 

I think, although I care about my ex-AP, a lot of the feelings that are there are guilt motivated because he is working me over having "broken his heart," "taken advantage of him," "knowingly deceived him." etc. I told him that if he felt that way after just knowing me since February, to imagine how my husband would feel about it if he knew. I'm not minimizing his broken heart, but I do think after having told him repeatedly I'm moving home and working on my family the message should be accepted. I understand he has the right to his emotions and I'm sure he has anger, but we both knew going in what our particular situations are and I think we both knew we were doing something wrong. He told me he knew that.

 

 

If the above was all an overshare, I apologize. It felt good to get it out of my system. I don't know how something so simple has become so difficult to communicate or become such a big problem over time. At least -- if not anything else -- I'm proud I typed it all out.

[Dexter Morgan]

And before anyone jumps in -- yes, I know none of the above justifies the affair.

 

then quit so hard trying to justify it then

 

ya ya, I know, thats not what you think you are doing:rolleyes:

 

 

And I guess my doubts are really just me not wanting to be sexually dissatisfied for the rest of my life after having enjoyed it so much. I don't want to lay there in bed wishing I wasn't there.

 

so when are you divorcing your husband?

[WalkInThePark]

Jezus, Samantha what kind of marriage do you have? You are together since you are 14 and you can't even talk about sex together?

Honestly, your AP might not be the right guy for you (maybe that's why you chose him...) but you really have to wonder whether your husband with all his hang-ups is the right partner for someone as lively as you.

Isn't it amazing? I have never been married and always look at married people as people who've got something more, who know something more, who have more skills than me. After all they seem to have been able to do something that I don't seem to be able to. And reading and hearing how married people's lives are/have been, I often realize that they often have lousy communication and sex lives...

[Samantha0905]

Jezus, Samantha what kind of marriage do you have? You are together since you are 14 and you can't even talk about sex together?

Honestly, your AP might not be the right guy for you (maybe that's why you chose him...) but you really have to wonder whether your husband with all his hang-ups is the right partner for someone as lively as you.

Isn't it amazing? I have never been married and always look at married people as people who've got something more, who know something more, who have more skills than me. After all they seem to have been able to do something that I don't seem to be able to. And reading and hearing how married people's lives are/have been, I often realize that they often have lousy communication and sex lives...

 

Well, you made me smile. Beats the Hell out of me as to what kind of marriage we have? One of my best friends said, "You guys can't get divorced. You're my ideal couple." So, from the outside looking in people get the impression we're very happy. From the inside even -- it's definitely not a fighting relationship. He does anything and everything for me without me even having to ask as far as providing, etc. He's very service oriented -- makes coffee, does dishes, etc. He's very gentlemanly -- holds doors, sends flowers, etc.

 

We do have pretty poor communication skills and our sex life is definitely less than stellar (i.e., lousy), although I think he seems okay with it as long as he gets some.

 

Sex with ex-AP was fantastic and we communicated well, but yes -- I don't think he's right for me long-term. It's difficult to know because an affair is no way to start a relationship.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Samantha0905

[WalkInThePark]

Well, you made me smile. Beats the Hell out of me as to what kind of marriage we have? One of my best friends said, "You guys can't get divorced. You're my ideal couple." So, from the outside looking in people get the impression we're very happy. From the inside even -- it's definitely not a fighting relationship. He does anything and everything for me without me even having to ask as far as providing, etc. He's very service oriented -- makes coffee, does dishes, etc. He's very gentlemanly -- holds doors, sends flowers, etc.

 

That is all great. But does he knows what makes you tick? I don't think so because if he would, you would not have had an affair.

I think that in a marriage, it either goes forward or backwards. Either you get to know each other better and better and your relationship gets better. Or you either come to the conclusion that after all these years your partner does not really hear and see who you are. In a young marriage of young people the excitement comes from new things: building a house and a household together, having kids together, creating financial security gives excitement. Once the kids are finding their own way, the fuel has to come from the quality of the relationship itself.

Read Mem's posts: he and his wife seem to know the trick, I hope that one day I can have that kind of relationship.

 

We do have pretty poor communication skills and our sex life is definitely less than stellar (i.e., lousy), although I think he seems okay with it as long as he gets some.

 

Well, these things are really vital, aren't they? Good sex is a very powerful glue between a couple. And in order to have good sex, there also needs to be good communication about sex and about other things.

 

Sex with ex-AP was fantastic and we communicated well, but yes -- I don't think he's right for me long-term. It's difficult to know because an affair is no way to start a relationship.

 

Samantha, it is not a choise between either the AP or your H. It is about what you need in a relationship to be happy and whether you can find that in your M. You are still young enough to have dreams and projects for the future, yet old enough to know what you no longer want. You realize that you want to be happy NOW and that you are no longer willing to procrastinate happiness. So do not settle for a situation that does not satisfy you. I think you need to tell your H what has happened. It's then up to him to decide whether he wants to make you happy or not.

[Samantha0905]

That is all great. But does he knows what makes you tick? I don't think so because if he would, you would not have had an affair.

I think that in a marriage, it either goes forward or backwards. Either you get to know each other better and better and your relationship gets better. Or you either come to the conclusion that after all these years your partner does not really hear and see who you are. In a young marriage of young people the excitement comes from new things: building a house and a household together, having kids together, creating financial security gives excitement. Once the kids are finding their own way, the fuel has to come from the quality of the relationship itself.

Read Mem's posts: he and his wife seem to know the trick, I hope that one day I can have that kind of relationship.

 

Thank you. Mem has been a great help to me.

 

I never thought we were a couple -- or I was the person perhaps -- just having fun with the kids. I thought we were doing what we were supposed to do by having a "date" night ect. just on our own away from our kids. It never struck me HOW MUCH I was going to end up missing my kids. My son is home this weekend and it's so nice to converse with him. He loves to talk about anything and everything.

 

 

 

Well, these things are really vital, aren't they? Good sex is a very powerful glue between a couple. And in order to have good sex, there also needs to be good communication about sex and about other things.

Yes!

 

 

 

Samantha, it is not a choice between either the AP or your H. It is about what you need in a relationship to be happy and whether you can find that in your M. You are still young enough to have dreams and projects for the future, yet old enough to know what you no longer want. You realize that you want to be happy NOW and that you are no longer willing to procrastinate happiness. So do not settle for a situation that does not satisfy you. I think you need to tell your H what has happened. It's then up to him to decide whether he wants to make you happy or not.

Thank you. I'm not there yet, especially during the holidays -- but if things don't improve, I think I'll get there.

 

 

So, we went away for the weekend. It was alright. I still feel like I'm hanging out with my brother somewhat -- except my siblings and I talk more intimately with each other.

 

I thought things were going well, but on Saturday when we would "normally" have sex, he received a business call that put him in a bad mood and didn't even make an approach on the sex front. I didn't either, so "Houston, we have a problem." It's weird. I keep thinking, "Well, at least try!" But I'm the one who had an affair. I'm certainly not initiating. I'm still not even sure I want to have sex with him or feel attracted in that way at all.

 

Just as a small aside, we went to the movies this past weekend. We were in the town where our college football rivals reside. In the theater -- as the movie showed one of our former coaches -- the rival crowd boo'd (sp?) and I was thinking and about to voice a, "Go ______ !" My hubby must have known it was coming and patted my leg with his "please don't!" signal. I hate that signal. I think the small things have built up over time. I did tell him later to not tap my leg to tell me to be quiet because I hated it and can say what I want to say. ha,ha for that "big" step.

 

We went to see my sister after that in Georgia and it was nice chatting and talking to her. Hubby had a meeting and her hubby was running errands, so it was nice girl talk time and we enjoyed each others' company at least. She's a great therapist for me. She said you need "a lover" -- ha,ha -- that's a mess I've already created, so we discussed that instead. Then she suggested I develop interests of my own because men don't change. Wonderful.

 

Today is all sorts of Thanksgiving errands, tomorrow family Thanksgiving and then a wedding anniversary. I did receive flowers and an offer to go to the jewelry store.

 

I'm not trying to be glib -- just in a slight mood -- and I give both of us a "D-" for this past weekend.

 

Moving back in day is Monday.

Edited November 25, 2009 by Samantha0905