Developing intimacy and passion......

November 2, 2009

Maybe the key is to look beyond ourselves and our own life experiences. I understand the perspective -- ourselves and what we experience personally projected to all others -- however, empathy helps.

When empathizing, it's more than likely important to not just think of how we would react in the same situation. In fact, empathy may be impossible. How can we put ourselves into somebody's shoes without having had all their life experiences, feelings, etc.? It just can't be done, so don't pass judgment on how someone else reacts to a situation. We're all different.

November 2, 2009

The ability or inability to face up to hard, sometimes unpleasant truths, is a mark of maturity. Just as the the ability or inability to be honest is also a mark of maturity. Those who would hide from unpleasantnees are the weak, and the immature. This is pretty much how it is.

November 2, 2009

The ability or inability to face up to hard, sometimes unpleasant truths, is a mark of maturity. Just as the the ability or inability to be honest is also a mark of maturity. Those who would hide from unpleasantnees are the weak, and the immature. This is pretty much how it is.

I'm feeling alright. Better. Much better. Thanks.

November 2, 2009

Sorry for the thread-jack, SAM, but I was responding to NWTH's post. I didn't call your H a Doormat, I don't know How he would respond in the situation, because he hasn't been confronted by the truth of your affair, yet. If he hides his head in the sand, and isn't able to handle his wife cheating, Then maybe so. If he is an honest and straightforward man, and deals with the problem, then he has my respect. I'm glad you are feeling better, so am I.:)

November 2, 2009

To reconnect with him? To fall more deeply in love with him then you have been in a long time? I think your H is a practical man - much more concerned with what you are going to do then with what you have been doing. If he really truly wanted to know he would have asked.

Is your guilt getting in the way? If so, that would be sad because in a sense that means he is getting punished twice. Put the past aside - he is not focusing on it - which is your cue that he is giving you a free pass on whatever happened.

This really is simple. Start making love to him. And start taking him on long walks with you - and maybe hold his hand - if you two do that kind of thing. Touch him - he craves that even if he gives you the strong front and acts as if he is ok either way being close and touching or not touching at all. He might tolerate distance - but if he is like most men - he will love closeness/touch. Maybe he just needs you to initiate.

I'm feeling alright. Better. Much better. Thanks.

November 2, 2009

MEM, Just because he hasn't asked, doesn't mean he doesn't want or need to know. Maybe he is afraid of the answer he will get or maybe he already knows and is waiting for Sam to come clean about the affair. The bottom line is that the affair is and will always be the roadblock to Sam and her husband's reconnection. It is the 700 lb. Gorilla in the corner.

November 2, 2009

Sorry for the thread-jack, SAM, but I was responding to NWTH's post. I didn't call your H a Doormat, I don't know How he would respond in the situation, because he hasn't been confronted by the truth of your affair, yet. If he hides his head in the sand, and isn't able to handle his wife cheating, Then maybe so. If he is an honest and straightforward man, and deals with the problem, then he has my respect. I'm glad you are feeling better, so am I.:)

It's okay. At least I rise to his defense. LOL Sorry if I was being touchy last night.

To reconnect with him? To fall more deeply in love with him then you have been in a long time? I think your H is a practical man - much more concerned with what you are going to do then with what you have been doing. If he really truly wanted to know he would have asked.

Is your guilt getting in the way? If so, that would be sad because in a sense that means he is getting punished twice. Put the past aside - he is not focusing on it - which is your cue that he is giving you a free pass on whatever happened.

This really is simple. Start making love to him. And start taking him on long walks with you - and maybe hold his hand - if you two do that kind of thing. Touch him - he craves that even if he gives you the strong front and acts as if he is ok either way being close and touching or not touching at all. He might tolerate distance - but if he is like most men - he will love closeness/touch. Maybe he just needs you to initiate.

I don't think my guilt is getting in the way. I am disappointed greatly with myself, but I'm not consumed with guilt. I don't know if that makes me a bad person or not, but it is how I feel. To me, the actual act isn't the problem. The problem is whatever is missing -- the void -- and attempting to fix it in the wrong manner. Obviously, by choosing to commit the act (affair), I showed a huge lack of integrity and I don't like that part of myself. I've just never been one to dwell on things that have already happened. It was wrong. I did it. I can't take it back. All I can do is pray about it, ask for forgiveness, forgive myself and act to repair what caused it to happen -- whatever is causing the void and my lack of integrity. Those are two things I can change.

The "Do you want" part of your question caused me to pause. That's not a good sign. I do want, but I so DON'T WANT things to be like they were where I end up lonely as Hell. It's been that way for so long, I'm hesitating in my heart because I wonder if we can make it over that hill.

Sorry for bringing up a chick flick again -- but when I was watching "Bridges of Madison County" last night, the scene that struck me the most was Meryl Streep (Francesca) at her husband's bedside as he was dying. He's telling her how much he loves her and she just looks sad and snuggles up to him -- no I love you back. It's obvious she does love him in the movie, but I was thinking, "Damn! He doesn't even get a sincere I love you as he's biting the dust?!" I felt defensive for her husband's character. Then she spread her ashes over the Rosemont Bridge she and her lover (Clint) had frolicked around. I mean, I know it's just a movie -- but there's all this self-sacrificing theme on her behalf throughout the movie -- and I know for sure I don't want that going on. I want to know without a doubt I want to be with my husband and think of my past affair as an absolute mistake. I don't want to think I've missed out on a part of me. I want us to enjoy that with each other.

I may be rambling there, but my point is I think it must be easy to get mired down in being unhappy and thinking something is missing in one's life. I want to not be that person. I'm pretty sure I have everything I need to be extremely happy/content right in front of my face.

MEM, Just because he hasn't asked, doesn't mean he doesn't want or need to know. Maybe he is afraid of the answer he will get or maybe he already knows and is waiting for Sam to come clean about the affair. The bottom line is that the affair is and will always be the roadblock to Sam and her husband's reconnection. It is the 700 lb. Gorilla in the corner.

I'm not sure the affair has that much importance in the entire scheme of things jack. I just don't think it's always going to be a 700lb gorilla in the corner. I just don't. I feel badly about it, because I did care for my ex-AP -- but if I think about it rationally, we both made a choice -- me to have an extra-marital relationship and him to have a relationship with a married woman. Not nice on either of our parts. I don't resent him for it though and know his life will be happier with someone who is available. I can't in anyway process a future for myself that doesn't involve my husband and children and all of us intact. It is what it is.

I don't see it as a future stumbling block for my husband and I either. I can move forward. I just can.

November 2, 2009

So, since this is my thread I figure I'll just keep people updated as I go along as a means of therapy of some sort and to journal how all over the board my head/heart seem to be.

I just signed my lease termination agreement for my apartment. It ends November 30th. I can't say that I was happy in doing it.

My ex-AP called me today to say he loves me and misses me terribly. I responded telling him I love him also, but I am going home to work on repairing the love/relationship with my husband and children. Regardless of how I feel for him, the fact is I can't bite the bullet and give up my family. I love them more. I also told him I was signing my lease termination today. He wasn't mean, but said he was angry and WTF was he all about? Then he de-friended me on FB which seems funny to even type at 48 years of age, but it all makes me sad nonetheless.

It's just as well. I don't want to read about his life, happiness or anything like that although I hope he is happy in life and finds someone with whom he can share his love 100%.

So, not such a nice day here in Samantha land. No sympathy being requested, by the way -- I'm just typing it all out.

November 3, 2009

Sam,

Do you think you can articulate to your husband what it is that you want from him going forward?

Do you think he will be capable of understanding it?

Do you think he is willing/able to actually do it?

Are you going to move back home before Thanksgiving?

I truly hope that you can help him become the husband that you need and that you in turn are able to return to being the wife that he needs.

As to the affair. I agree with your view on it - it is about you and not about him. It is about you and not about your marriage. I have no opinion whatsoever as to the right or wrong of it. While I have never cheated I can imagine many, many relationship situations where I would eventually be weakened and vulnerable to an outside lover. I have been blessed with a wonderful loving wife - I cannot cheat on her because she deserves the very best that I have to give.

And if she moved out - there would simply be a vast empty space inside of me. A place so big, and cold that I would be lost in it. And if I ever let things get to the point where she left me, then I would pray that God help her find forgiveness and a safe path back to me.

As to what she did while gone - I would not ask. If she felt the need to tell me she would - and if not - not. She is truly good inside - so I imagine if she crossed a line and felt wrong about it - she would need to sort that out with God not with me. I am simply her partner, not her maker.

So, since this is my thread I figure I'll just keep people updated as I go along as a means of therapy of some sort and to journal how all over the board my head/heart seem to be.

I just signed my lease termination agreement for my apartment. It ends November 30th. I can't say that I was happy in doing it.

My ex-AP called me today to say he loves me and misses me terribly. I responded telling him I love him also, but I am going home to work on repairing the love/relationship with my husband and children. Regardless of how I feel for him, the fact is I can't bite the bullet and give up my family. I love them more. I also told him I was signing my lease termination today. He wasn't mean, but said he was angry and WTF was he all about? Then he de-friended me on FB which seems funny to even type at 48 years of age, but it all makes me sad nonetheless.

It's just as well. I don't want to read about his life, happiness or anything like that although I hope he is happy in life and finds someone with whom he can share his love 100%.

So, not such a nice day here in Samantha land. No sympathy being requested, by the way -- I'm just typing it all out.

November 3, 2009

Sam,

Do you think you can articulate to your husband what it is that you want from him going forward?

I can articulate what I feel has been missing -- a lack of a feeling of intimacy for me, which also makes me not interested in sex. It's hard to say to a man because I'm sure he doesn't want to hear, "I'm not interested in sex with you," so I'd better think of some way to put it where it isn't a personal attack on his manhood. I can tell him I'm lonely and need more conversation and for us to do more things together. It's difficult to know exactly what will solve the problem, so I'm having a hard time coming up with specifics.

Do you think he will be capable of understanding it?

Yes, I think so.

Do you think he is willing/able to actually do it?

I don't know. The older he gets, the more resistant he seems to change. I think he's just about had it with everyone! He will try.

Are you going to move back home before Thanksgiving?

Yes, I'm the hostess of family Thanksgiving. There usually ends up being about 50 people in my house for Thanksgiving because I have 13 siblings. Our anniversary is that weekend also. He has ordered me a car. I did NOT ask for it and that makes me feel a bit funny also.

I truly hope that you can help him become the husband that you need and that you in turn are able to return to being the wife that he needs.

Me too and thank you so much.

As to the affair. I agree with your view on it - it is about you and not about him. It is about you and not about your marriage. I have no opinion whatsoever as to the right or wrong of it. While I have never cheated I can imagine many, many relationship situations where I would eventually be weakened and vulnerable to an outside lover. I have been blessed with a wonderful loving wife - I cannot cheat on her because she deserves the very best that I have to give.

Yes, my husband does too. I pretty much sucked in how I handled the situation.

And if she moved out - there would simply be a vast empty space inside of me. A place so big, and cold that I would be lost in it. And if I ever let things get to the point where she left me, then I would pray that God help her find forgiveness and a safe path back to me.

I think my husband has been very lonely. He does keep telling me he wants me home because he's lonely and misses having me there. Even though he isn't much of a talker in the evenings, I think he just likes the comfort of knowing I'm there.

He gets up every morning and does a devotional. He's told me he prays for me daily, my happiness and our marriage.

As to what she did while gone - I would not ask. If she felt the need to tell me she would - and if not - not. She is truly good inside - so I imagine if she crossed a line and felt wrong about it - she would need to sort that out with God not with me. I am simply her partner, not her maker.

I feel this way too and know without a doubt, I am where I am because I've moved away from God. I'm not a holy roller or anything, but I have always -- up until this latest foray into disaster-land -- had a close relationship with God. I've always prayed to Him and felt Him with me throughout the day. I know He's still there, but I've been keeping Him at arm's length to say the least.

Thanks for your input.

November 3, 2009

You both met when you were kids so maybe you need to both start to look at each other like sexual adults.

Getting married so young and only being with one person does not create much passion.

When I was 14, how the heck would I have known who I wanted when I was a grown women in my 30's. I certainly would not pick the same men now at 43, that I picked at 19 or 20 yrs old.

Now having said that, finding passion when there isn't any is like getting blood from a stone.

You need to get your passion from another, which is totally understandable since we are emtotional creatures.

It takes two to create passion and if he doesn't want it, you won't be able to have it.

And like others have said, without truth, honesty and open communication, there is no open line of love. Only closed up energy that can never flow. NO flow, no passion

November 8, 2009

You both met when you were kids so maybe you need to both start to look at each other like sexual adults.
Getting married so young and only being with one person does not create much passion.
When I was 14, how the heck would I have known who I wanted when I was a grown women in my 30's. I certainly would not pick the same men now at 43, that I picked at 19 or 20 yrs old.

Now having said that, finding passion when there isn't any is like getting blood from a stone.
You need to get your passion from another, which is totally understandable since we are emotional creatures.

It takes two to create passion and if he doesn't want it, you won't be able to have it.
And like others have said, without truth, honesty and open communication, there is no open line of love. Only closed up energy that can never flow. NO flow, no passion

Thanks. You make a lot of excellent points.

November 8, 2009

So, I spent the weekend with my husband away and we spent a lot of time talking about how we're both feeling. We haven't exactly come up with exact ways to "fix" it all, but we've both expressed a desire to be together and continue to work on things.

It was nice for him to open up to me and to find out what is going on with him. He told me a lot of what I already knew was going on as far as his concerns/responsibilities in life having to do with his siblings, parents, business/employees, etc.

He also told me he worries about our daughter and whether her marriage will be a happy one. They've had very minor issues in the first year and a half, but it's just typical young marriage pains. It takes a while to adjust to living with someone all the time.

He told me yet again he's bothered by the fact our son is gay and how much that troubles him.

After letting him vent for quite a while, I told him he would never be happy in life if he continued to feel the need to control the outcome of everyone's lives. He said he didn't know how I could just sit back and not worry about things, but I'm just not a worry in advance kind of person. I love my children and want the best for them. I hope my daughter has a wonderful marriage, but I will not pre-worry about possible trouble in the future. If she ever does have serious issues, I will be her friend/confidant/adviser if she needs me at some point in the future. As for my son, I don't have a problem with him being gay. I don't think of him in terms of that being a flaw. I think of him as my son. And besides, he IS gay so why worry about things you can't change? It's like he walks around with the weight of the world on his shoulders.

He used to not be that way and was more joyful. I think he's just gotten into the habit of feeling like it's his responsibility to take care of everyone.

So, I tried to explain all of this to him and how I really want us to be friends and for him not to let worry overtake him and just for us to find some simple joys in life again -- just spending time together. I told him if we aren't intimate close friends, how will we ever enjoy each other totally in a passionate and sexual manner?

Anyway, it's a start and it did feel better to talk. We went out to dinner and he even asked if I wanted to go to a sports bar (he never likes to go to places like bars) to watch some football. Today we golfed and had lunch by the ocean. It was nice.

Still no advances on the sexual front, but I'm not going to pre-worry about that either. I guess we'll keep working on it and see where this goes.

November 8, 2009

That is a great story. Perhaps you can help him find a way to let go of all these things he wants to control.

So, I spent the weekend with my husband away and we spent a lot of time talking about how we're both feeling. We haven't exactly come up with exact ways to "fix" it all, but we've both expressed a desire to be together and continue to work on things.

It was nice for him to open up to me and to find out what is going on with him. He told me a lot of what I already knew was going on as far as his concerns/responsibilities in life having to do with his siblings, parents, business/employees, etc.

He also told me he worries about our daughter and whether her marriage will be a happy one. They've had very minor issues in the first year and a half, but it's just typical young marriage pains. It takes a while to adjust to living with someone all the time.

He told me yet again he's bothered by the fact our son is gay and how much that troubles him.

After letting him vent for quite a while, I told him he would never be happy in life if he continued to feel the need to control the outcome of everyone's lives. He said he didn't know how I could just sit back and not worry about things, but I'm just not a worry in advance kind of person. I love my children and want the best for them. I hope my daughter has a wonderful marriage, but I will not pre-worry about possible trouble in the future. If she ever does have serious issues, I will be her friend/confidant/adviser if she needs me at some point in the future. As for my son, I don't have a problem with him being gay. I don't think of him in terms of that being a flaw. I think of him as my son. And besides, he IS gay so why worry about things you can't change? It's like he walks around with the weight of the world on his shoulders.

He used to not be that way and was more joyful. I think he's just gotten into the habit of feeling like it's his responsibility to take care of everyone.

So, I tried to explain all of this to him and how I really want us to be friends and for him not to let worry overtake him and just for us to find some simple joys in life again -- just spending time together. I told him if we aren't intimate close friends, how will we ever enjoy each other totally in a passionate and sexual manner?

Anyway, it's a start and it did feel better to talk. We went out to dinner and he even asked if I wanted to go to a sports bar (he never likes to go to places like bars) to watch some football. Today we golfed and had lunch by the ocean. It was nice.

Still no advances on the sexual front, but I'm not going to pre-worry about that either. I guess we'll keep working on it and see where this goes.

November 9, 2009

............................

Edited November 9, 2009 by boldjack

November 9, 2009

............................

Jack! Thanks for that. Didn't you ask me not to respond to things you posted and vice versa after hurling insults at me? Hmmmm. Maybe sometimes you say and do things you don't mean? I thought you were perfect.

November 9, 2009

That is a great story. Perhaps you can help him find a way to let go of all these things he wants to control.

Thanks. I hope I can work with him to let go of it some and I hope I can let go of my own destructive ways of handling things at time.

I had a long talk with my sister tonight. She's 58 and a sweetheart and knows the situation. She talked about my positive and negative traits and his positive and negative traits. She said she had never met a couple that never argued at all like us. She said she didn't know if that was a bad thing or a good thing and then she pondered whether we were so alike in some ways and that caused it to happen (or not happen, I suppose.) Then, she dropped that line of thinking all together because she knows I'm up for an argument. ha,ha

Anyway, I appreciate your encouragement and it did feel like a step forward.

November 9, 2009

So MEM, you think that the victim of adultery is the one who is at fault? It's almost laughable how many evasions, excuses, denials, religious conversions and pseudo- psychological babble a cheater and liar will resort to, in order to avoid being honest. The husband was not at fault, no BS has done anything to deserve a lowlife cheater. I'm including myself in this, as I used to be a cheater, too.

November 9, 2009

two things may help a bit:

have your H read co-dependent no more. he needs to quit worrying about everyone else and start taking care of himself... also he needs to learn to let go of the control he seems to grab onto so tightly. living with a controlling person causes huge resentments and big issues.

you needs to figure out your feelings and emotions and what YOU want and what you are willing to gibe. in order to do this - you have to stop pretending in every area of your life. be TRUE to how you feel in any given moment and act accordingly. i have a feeling you cover your TRUE feelings over the years and pretend that things are ok when they're not. if your sad say it, if your mad say that too. when you're feeling happy and loving - express that! resolve through the emotions honestly. when we are no longer pretending and allow others to understand exactly how we feel, then the resentments all go away and communication is true and correct. try it. when you feel closer to your husband because of the honesty and not feeling rejected when you're vulnerable - that is when the passion and closeness will return. that would be a nice time to return to the physical aspect with him that men are usually waiting for.

let your guard down... you're covering up the passion by pretending out of fear... probably of rejection.

November 9, 2009

2sunny, this is an excellent post! But , again it pre-supposes that both parties will make an HONEST effort. This, sadly, is not happening right now. True , honest , communication is the key to almost all problems in marriage. Two people, who love and respect each other can work through any issue, emotional, physical, or otherwise. Deception, and continued deception have destroyed more marriages than any other cause.

November 9, 2009

two things may help a bit:

have your H read co-dependent no more. he needs to quit worrying about everyone else and start taking care of himself... also he needs to learn to let go of the control he seems to grab onto so tightly. living with a controlling person causes huge resentments and big issues.

you needs to figure out your feelings and emotions and what YOU want and what you are willing to gibe. in order to do this - you have to stop pretending in every area of your life. be TRUE to how you feel in any given moment and act accordingly. i have a feeling you cover your TRUE feelings over the years and pretend that things are ok when they're not. if your sad say it, if your mad say that too. when you're feeling happy and loving - express that! resolve through the emotions honestly. when we are no longer pretending and allow others to understand exactly how we feel, then the resentments all go away and communication is true and correct. try it. when you feel closer to your husband because of the honesty and not feeling rejected when you're vulnerable - that is when the passion and closeness will return. that would be a nice time to return to the physical aspect with him that men are usually waiting for.

let your guard down... you're covering up the passion by pretending out of fear... probably of rejection.

Thank you sunny. You are square on with all of that advice and I appreciate it. I can't find a single thing in your post that isn't actually going on. I think the more time has gone on and the more I've suppressed, the more I suppress. I think the same is true for him. I should read that book also. I've heard a lot about it.

I grew up in a family of 16 all together. We were light hearted in many ways, but taught to behave also. We just had our moments and my dad was an artist and my mom was raising 14 children. There was a little more leeway. My husband was brought up pretty strictly. The first time I visited their home, I thought I was in an alternate reality. Kind of like "Pleasantville." They were so formal and polite. We were civilized, but we acted like brothers and sisters. Anyway, I understand jack's rantings in some ways, but in other ways I think we both are responsible for our own happiness and if we're happy, it helps our relationship to be happy. I also think we both have to be attentive to one another's needs. We should both WANT to be attentive to one another's needs.

I do love him so much.

November 9, 2009

2sunny, I am very interested in your views, and will PM you about them, so as not to thread-jack, any more.

November 9, 2009

Thank you sunny. You are square on with all of that advice and I appreciate it. I can't find a single thing in your post that isn't actually going on. I think the more time has gone on and the more I've suppressed, the more I suppress. I think the same is true for him. I should read that book also. I've heard a lot about it.

I grew up in a family of 16 all together. We were light hearted in many ways, but taught to behave also. We just had our moments and my dad was an artist and my mom was raising 14 children. There was a little more leeway. My husband was brought up pretty strictly. The first time I visited their home, I thought I was in an alternate reality. Kind of like "Pleasantville." They were so formal and polite. We were civilized, but we acted like brothers and sisters. Anyway, I understand jack's rantings in some ways, but in other ways I think we both are responsible for our own happiness and if we're happy, it helps our relationship to be happy. I also think we both have to be attentive to one another's needs. We should both WANT to be attentive to one another's needs.

I do love him so much.

interesting parallels. i am one of 9 kids, all adults. i call it organized chaos when we get together , and that is often. we were raised to be happy... but also to pretend. i don't pretend anymore. i state my honesty without hurt feelings for others. they appreciate it as it simplifies things. it's not always what they want to hear - but it's what they need to know. i don't expect anyone to "fix" my situations for me - it is what it is and i'm willing to be honest and forthcoming. as far as habit - they always try to convince me otherwise on how I feel, i correct them. my answers are firm.

such as:

hey 2sunny, want to go to this movie?

ummmm, no thank you.

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