Author Samantha0905 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Posted October 27, 2009 Yes, he has some control issues. That story about the key nearly proves it. I've found most of those people are completely ruled by fear. He didn't want to tell you where the key was, because he had some kind of fear. Of what I don't know. I think your on the right track there. Maybe if you start by sharing positive things with him, and helping him out with some responsibilities... that will open the door to sharing everything later. Also, great idea on getting something going outside the house. It will make your life more fulfilling and will give you guys something to talk about at the end of the day. I don't usually offer advice to people in the OW section, even though it's something I've been through. I think most of them are too dumb to waste words on, but your totally different. I think your going to make things work in your marriage. It may take time and effort... but I believe you have the right attitude and ability to make your home happy. I wish you the very best of luck! If you ever need anything feel free to PM me any time! I guess he thought we'd lose the spare key also. At least he had the ability to laugh about it after we laughed at him enough. I definitely need to do something productive with myself. I am really out of sorts as far as that is concerned. I used to work and then stopped when I had my second child. I loved being able to stay home with my children, but it does have some loneliness aspects. There was a lack of adult companionship. I did love the people I worked with, however. And I am proud of my children. They are happy, hard-working and beautiful adults with free spirits. I love their ability to express themselves and to go after what they want in life. Thank you for the nice compliment. It's been really helpful to discuss this with you. I should stroke you a check because you've been a great counselor today. Thank you so much for listening and responding. I really do want my marriage to work. I know some say, well you had an affair so just tell him and get a divorce. That's not an option for me. I know what I did was terrible. Wrong. I hurt our marriage, myself and my ex-AP. I hate it, but I can't take it back and I want to move forward. I love my husband very much and have just really been handling things poorly. I want to be a better person and have a more communicative, intimate and loving marriage.
jennie-jennie Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 In any event, I don't think passion is there or it isn't. Well, maybe I do and maybe it was there when we were dating and I somehow let that go away because I had issues with our sexual connection. It was such a long time ago and I can't minimize that fact. We were really young when we met. 14 and 15 is young. When my own children were that age, I remember thinking it again. That's young to be meeting your life partner. It is young. Still, my MM and I met when we were 15. Then reunited 31 years later. The same passion and love twice in a life time. Either it is there or not, that is my belief. We have been together for four years now, passion still flying high.
Author Samantha0905 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) It is young. Still, my MM and I met when we were 15. Then reunited 31 years later. The same passion and love twice in a life time. Either it is there or not, that is my belief. We have been together for four years now, passion still flying high. But he's married to someone else, right? Is he taking proactive steps to get out of the marriage and be with just you or do you not want that and are happy with him having you and his wife? If he's making the choice to choose both -- and that's what he's doing if he's not taking proactive steps right now to get out of the marriage -- then well, that doesn't say much to me about his capacity to love anyone in the right way. Four years is a while...... For all I know, if I met my husband now in a different capacity -- say, him as an adult and via an affair where he's the AP for me and I'm married to someone else for 28 years -- well, Hell, I might feel passion for him. I think a lot of the passion in an affair is from doing something that feels secretive and forbidden. It makes it so much more exciting. I believe what they say about it being like a drug. Plus, it's easier to sustain that passion when the every day responsibilities of being a couple are taken out of it. I think I remember you saying you felt like he chose you because he didn't have the ability to stay away for the three months of no contact? I think choosing you would be to say "I love her" to his wife, packing up, filing for divorce and moving on to be with you. It sounds like he took the route of least resistance for himself. Unless, of course he is being proactive and doing something right now to end his marriage and be with you or ending his contact with you and working on his marriage. Otherwise, he's eating cake because he is having both. I don't think that type of passion is the same type of passion or love that would be existent in a 28 year marriage even if it were there for mine. Although that type of passion is very intense, I wonder how sustainable it would be if you two were together 24/7 in a marriage relationship like he and his wife? It seems to me there would be an ebb and flow to passion in long term marriages -- especially those involving the raising of children. I think it's hard to compare one to another and the affair passion is set in a fantasy backdrop instead of a real life backdrop, if that makes sense? I found a good article on passion in a relationship. I was going to post it here, but it's a tad long (as in very) -- what I've read so far is interesting: http://www.queendom.com/articles/articles.htm?a=17 The article talks about how love progresses from self-centered to other-centered and I think that is true in long term relationships and how it should be. This part is interesting and I think very true: Too much work and not enough play takes the zing out of sexual relationships. A night of dancing to Latin music might put you in the mood for some sweaty, rhythmic sex. But mopping, cooking, changing diapers, greeting thousands of customers, selling insurance, or laboring away in the office are not daily pastimes that put sex on the forefront of your mind. I think in a marriage relationship involving children it can get easy if a couple isn't diligent to become frustrated and stop showing enough attention to one another to keep passion going. Often, instead of remedying the problem at hand, they look outside of the relationship to fill that void. Anyway, my main point is the passion of an affair just isn't a fair comparison to sustaining passion in a marriage. And as I said, it may very well have been there when I was 15. I remember feeling excited -- in a puppy/young love kind of way -- about him showing me attention, dating him, etc. We weren't having sex though -- and we were very young -- so it's hard to look back that far in time to detect true passion. Edited October 27, 2009 by Samantha0905
Untouchable_Fire Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 It is young. Still, my MM and I met when we were 15. Then reunited 31 years later. The same passion and love twice in a life time. Either it is there or not, that is my belief. We have been together for four years now, passion still flying high. That is a load of CRAP. You make passion! You make it with thoughts and actions. Your romanticizing of your previous relationship, especially when compared to the state of your marriage... created what you believe is some kind of fated passion. You can spend your life letting your situation control you... or you can take control of your situation.
jennie-jennie Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) Samantha, as I stated in the other thread, I have always had passion for my men in all my significant relationships. First 5 years with my first SO, then for 25 years with my second SO, now for 4 years with my MM. My second SO and I have 3 children, so I know that my passion remains in a longterm relationship with children. Also while my MM keeps our relationship secret, I don't. Everyone I know, including my elderly parents, know of and approve our relationship. So no secrecy for me to affect the passion. To me secrecy would be more of a turnoff anyway. In fact my exSO knew that I had a PA with MM the last half year he and I were together. He did not approve of course, but neither was it kept secret to him. No, my MM has not yet, and who knows if he ever will, left his wife. He has stopped having sex with her. So I figure I have more of him than she does. I am his romantic love interest, and I prefer that to being a wife with no intimacy and no sex life. I would like to have all of him, but if I can not, I know I have the best parts, and I am happy for that. Edited October 27, 2009 by jennie-jennie
jennie-jennie Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 That is a load of CRAP. You make passion! You make it with thoughts and actions. Your romanticizing of your previous relationship, especially when compared to the state of your marriage... created what you believe is some kind of fated passion. You can spend your life letting your situation control you... or you can take control of your situation. I never had to make passion. I choose men for which I held passion. If you are referring to earlier posts about my second SO and his problems in our sex life, notice that I am saying that I held passion for him the entire relationship, I am not saying that we had passion for each other. It was the fact that I continued to have passion for him that made me stay with him for so long despite the fact that he was abusive. Is that your experience? That you make passion? Because I have seen a lot of posters ask if anyone has been able to create passion where it never existed or where it has been lost, and I too am wondering about the answer to this. I have always been passionate about the men I loved, so I don't know the answer to this question myself. However I believe, passion can not be created by will, but I am willing to listen if others have different experiences.
Author Samantha0905 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Posted October 27, 2009 No, my MM has not yet, and who knows if he ever will, left his wife. He has stopped having sex with her. So I figure I have more of him than she does. I am his romantic love interest, and I prefer that to being a wife with no intimacy and no sex life. I would like to have all of him, but if I can not, I know I have the best parts, and I am happy for that. Okay. Well, you know what makes you happy. Do you feel certain they don't have a sex life? How do you know this for sure? I'm just wondering. Would it bother you if he was having sex with both of you? I'm going to see if I can make some passion in my marriage. I don't buy the it's just there or not thing either. It seems if a long term marriage relationship involves work -- and it most certainly does involve work -- then the passion part would take some work also after a while. Maybe I just haven't been doing the work because I've always focused on the fact it's not there instead of doing something about it. Maybe if I put some work into it to make it happen, there will be times when it occurs just spontaneously also.
jennie-jennie Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Okay. Well, you know what makes you happy. Do you feel certain they don't have a sex life? How do you know this for sure? I'm just wondering. Would it bother you if he was having sex with both of you? Since MM told me for 3 1/2 years that they were having sex occasionally, I see no reason why he would start lying to me after all that time. I see it as cheating on me the times he has had sex with her. Not in the beginning, the first year and a half, while I was still having sex with my SO, but after that. You could say we had an open EMR the first part of our relationship. Good luck with your marriage. You do have a long way to go. I recognize my exSO in your husband, only touching when he wanted sex. That pattern never changed although I was always very tactile in relation to him.
Author Samantha0905 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 Since MM told me for 3 1/2 years that they were having sex occasionally, I see no reason why he would start lying to me after all that time. I see it as cheating on me the times he has had sex with her. Not in the beginning, the first year and a half, while I was still having sex with my SO, but after that. You could say we had an open EMR the first part of our relationship. Good luck with your marriage. You do have a long way to go. I recognize my exSO in your husband, only touching when he wanted sex. That pattern never changed although I was always very tactile in relation to him. Thank you. I'm going to work on more open communication with him. Hopefully, it will help. I know it will take a lot of work on my part after what I've done.
jennie-jennie Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 In my marriage we are successfully re-establishing passion and intimacy after infidelity. It is much hard work but the rewards are worth it. Sadly, when this happens at least one person (sometimes 2) in the triangle gets badly hurt as recovering passion and intimacy is happening between just 2 of the people. Congratulations. I am happy for you. May I ask how long the affair lasted? How was the passion and intimacy prior to the infidelity? Had the passion been lost for some time before the affair?
jennie-jennie Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Congratulations. I am happy for you. May I ask how long the affair lasted? 4 years How was the passion and intimacy prior to the infidelity? Together 20 years now. Passion and intimacy started to wane when pregnancy/kids arrived on the scene 16 years ago. Not intentionally just very busy life. Had the passion been lost for some time before the affair? Yes it had almost gone for several years before affair started. Very interesting and hopeful for many posters here. Thank you for filling us in. I did get a sense in one of your posts that you were a man. Am I correct? Were you the one who had the affair? Or was it your spouse?
jennie-jennie Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) Just a thought, Samantha. Does not this thread belong more in the Infidelity section of the forum rather than in the OM/W section? You are a WS reconciling with your husband, and from what you said to me about passion in an affair this thread seems to have very little to do with the OM. Edited October 28, 2009 by jennie-jennie
MizzBlue72 Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I would suggest the telling or not telling your H of the A should be discussed between you and a therapist / counselor. I went to see a counselor prior to MC and divorce, and she advised against telling the H because we had HUGE trust and communication issues that stemmed a lot from H chemical dependencies. My therapist believed that if the A would come to light in the beginning prior to communication being restored,etc., all the MC would focus on MY affair and not the problems at home (drugs, alcohol, lack of communication) that we were truly facing. Passion for me today truly begins with me. IN me. It's really been a god send to be alone. I decide what I like, don't like,. what I will tolerate and so on. The relationship with the MM is less than ideal on how it started, but I own it. I chose to have passion with him because I feel safe to do so - safer than I did in my M because he is truly not going to turn it around and use it against me as my H did. The communication needs to open up with you guys, especially with moving home. Hopefully a good counselor can help you achieve this. Good luck to you.
Author Samantha0905 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 Just a thought, Samantha. Does not this thread belong more in the Infidelity section of the forum rather than in the OM/W section? You are a WS reconciling with your husband, and from what you said to me about passion in an affair this thread seems to have very little to do with the OM. Honestly Jennie - I just wandered in here one day after searching for help just googling about affairs, etc. I was seeking answers -- desperate for some sort of answer -- trying to reaffirm some of the things I've been going through and thinking. I found everything I read interesting and didn't even remember where I was once I started reading. It only seems right that after my thread jacking, I would also find out I'm in the wrong section of the forum. I do find the posts in here interesting as in my infidelity, I was involved with an OM and I enjoy reading what people think. It's been a great help reading and trying to understand the perspectives of the OMs and OWs. In any event, I had no idea I was in the wrong section -- so y'all keep me straight -- because Lord knows I don't know what I'm doing at this point in time.
Author Samantha0905 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 I would suggest the telling or not telling your H of the A should be discussed between you and a therapist / counselor. I went to see a counselor prior to MC and divorce, and she advised against telling the H because we had HUGE trust and communication issues that stemmed a lot from H chemical dependencies. My therapist believed that if the A would come to light in the beginning prior to communication being restored,etc., all the MC would focus on MY affair and not the problems at home (drugs, alcohol, lack of communication) that we were truly facing. Passion for me today truly begins with me. IN me. It's really been a god send to be alone. I decide what I like, don't like,. what I will tolerate and so on. The relationship with the MM is less than ideal on how it started, but I own it. I chose to have passion with him because I feel safe to do so - safer than I did in my M because he is truly not going to turn it around and use it against me as my H did. The communication needs to open up with you guys, especially with moving home. Hopefully a good counselor can help you achieve this. Good luck to you. Thank you so much. I'm with your therapist in the not telling advice. I know my own situation and I don't think it would help. I think my husband would focus on the sexual details of the affair. Plus, I think he would then only focus on my flaws and wrongdoings instead of what is wrong in the marriage in general. This would cause him to bottle up and have periodic angry outbursts instead of communicating. I know communication is a major problem with us and it has lead to a lot of loneliness on my part. I handled being lonely badly. I'm sorry for what you've been through -- it sounds like a lot. Good luck to you also.
boldjack Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 What is interesting about this thread is tha ALL of the posters, who counsel not being honest with the SO, haven't shown their spouses the least shred of respect or true love, it's all about you and your wants and Passions. Sam , you are so deceitful that now you are lying to the posters. You said earlier that the reason that you didn't tell your H about the affair, ws to spare him "permanent scars", now you say that the reason is so you can focus on YOUR issues in MC. You have become so dishonest, that you can't even remember the truth. You are bound to fail and your family will suffer, all because you are too self-deluded, and too selfish to be honest, just this once. You will literally do anything to avoid honesty. I sincerely pity you husband and children. I will probably get in trouble with the Mods, but Hey I'm an honest man, and I can take it.
boldjack Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I am known as being a straightforward man, here on LS. Anybody who comes here with an honest desire to change and be a better person, will always find me more than willing to help in any way I can, and to show them true support with the issues they have. But if you come here with the intention to mislead or for "knee-jerk ", approval of dishonesty, I will tell it like it is.
Author Samantha0905 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 What is interesting about this thread is tha ALL of the posters, who counsel not being honest with the SO, haven't shown their spouses the least shred of respect or true love, it's all about you and your wants and Passions. Sam , you are so deceitful that now you are lying to the posters. You said earlier that the reason that you didn't tell your H about the affair, ws to spare him "permanent scars", now you say that the reason is so you can focus on YOUR issues in MC. You have become so dishonest, that you can't even remember the truth. You are bound to fail and your family will suffer, all because you are too self-deluded, and too selfish to be honest, just this once. You will literally do anything to avoid honesty. I sincerely pity you husband and children. I will probably get in trouble with the Mods, but Hey I'm an honest man, and I can take it. That's not dishonesty Jack. Have you considered I may have more than one reason not to tell my spouse. Maybe you should take the beam out of your own eye. I've read some of your posts and if your past deeds make you a terrible person throughout life, then well -- you need to worry about your own beam. I have told you countless times I do not agree with you. I do not think in EVERY situation it is best to tell the spouse of your infidelity. Period. Digest that. I appreciate your point of view, but I don't share it. It's not going to change unless I decide at some point in time, it needs to be told. This is my marriage. And you can think what you want about it, but I've been married 28 years. I made a terrible mistake this year. It did not negate my marriage. My marriage includes love, raising children, and all sorts of other wonderful things. We have some communication issues, but we also have some things in our marriage that are far more wonderful than I think you can understand. You don't want to believe that for some reason and I suppose it's just because you're judgmental. That's fine. That's you. This is me. And I don't really care if you get in trouble with the mods or not. Are you an adult? Your judgments about my marriage and the future of my marriage are just that and only that. You don't know me. I have a beautiful family. I have happy adult children. I have a husband who loves me very much and I love him very much. I am not a bad person. I am a great person who made a terrible mistake. It happens. People are not perfect. So, as much as you feel the need to prophesy the failure of my attempts to reconnect with my husband or the demise of my marriage -- I am convinced I can make it work. We love each other that much.
Author Samantha0905 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 I am known as being a straightforward man, here on LS. Anybody who comes here with an honest desire to change and be a better person, will always find me more than willing to help in any way I can, and to show them true support with the issues they have. But if you come here with the intention to mislead or for "knee-jerk ", approval of dishonesty, I will tell it like it is. Feel free to tell it like it is IN YOUR OPINION. You are not omniscient.
LifesontheUp Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 A marriage is between 2 people and therefore follows that it takes those 2 people to make it work. If its broke which yours obviously is since you had an affair, then how on earth do you think you can fix it on your own? I don't know Samantha, it just seems to me you are afraid to face him with what you have done. I think you are hiding behind excuses not to tell him. Witholding the information is so disrespectful. I think that if you want to make a go at getting your marriage back on track, you should consider telling your H of your affair. That way you get everything out in the open and your H is also clear on what needs to be changed to make your marriage better and able to stand the test of time. You never replied to the above on another thread. You may have missed it so I posted it again here for you to consider.
boldjack Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 OP, I'm sorry for your family, and Yes, I'm sorry for you too. Your selfishness has blinded you to the only thing that can do the things you want. To regain your honor, establish an honest and passionate love with your husband, and put the affair behind you. Just because you want it to, the truth will not go away, and your affair will come out, at some point. You think that I am judging you and that I think you are a bad person, nothing could be further from the truth. I sometimes feel like a bystander watching a train-wreck approaching and being powerless to stop it. I am trying to give you a warning, but you stubbornly, selfishly, refuse to hear it. You have had 1 affair , I have had many, and I am telling you from experience that your way is wrong, and will only lead to further heartache for your family and you. I lost my first wife not because of my affairs, but because of my dishonesty. Had I been square with her and communicated my issues with her , she would not have been as devastated as she was , and still is. So even if you think ill of me, i can only say that for you to have a loving, intimate , passionate marriage, you must be honest, NOTHING else will work. Please, please try to listen.
Author Samantha0905 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 OP, I'm sorry for your family, and Yes, I'm sorry for you too. Your selfishness has blinded you to the only thing that can do the things you want. To regain your honor, establish an honest and passionate love with your husband, and put the affair behind you. Just because you want it to, the truth will not go away, and your affair will come out, at some point. You think that I am judging you and that I think you are a bad person, nothing could be further from the truth. I sometimes feel like a bystander watching a train-wreck approaching and being powerless to stop it. I am trying to give you a warning, but you stubbornly, selfishly, refuse to hear it. You have had 1 affair , I have had many, and I am telling you from experience that your way is wrong, and will only lead to further heartache for your family and you. I lost my first wife not because of my affairs, but because of my dishonesty. Had I been square with her and communicated my issues with her , she would not have been as devastated as she was , and still is. So even if you think ill of me, i can only say that for you to have a loving, intimate , passionate marriage, you must be honest, NOTHING else will work. Please, please try to listen. But that is your experience, jack. It sounds like you had a bad one. And I don't think ill of you. I do think you seem to think your experience will be my experience. It just isn't always the same experience for everyone is all I'm saying to you. I really feel in some instances, it is best not to tell of the infidelity. I don't know how to say that to you in any clearer of a manner. I understand what you think. I appreciate your sharing what your think with me. It's just now it's beating a dead horse. We share a different opinion.
boldjack Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 You are right. I have tried to be square with you but you will not listen, so there is no point in communicating further. But remember this: my side is truth and love, your side is deceit and dishonor. Tell me truthfully , which is better?
seibert253 Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 You are right. I have tried to be square with you but you will not listen, so there is no point in communicating further. But remember this: my side is truth and love, your side is deceit and dishonor. Tell me truthfully , which is better? Got to agree with the Bold one once again. You know, I've read through all of this, and I certainly feel sympathy for those who gone astray and now want to walk the straight line and do what's right. Sam, I know you want to the do the right thing, you want your marriage to heal and be stronger than it's ever been, but let me ask you this, how can you heal without honesty? Maybe it's me, but I cannot see how you can rebuild by withholding from your H. Not only are you being dishonest to him, but you're not being honest with yourself. Omission is dishonesty. Earlier you wrote if your husband had an A, you wouldn't want to know. Who's being the avoider now? A relationship build, or rebuild, on dishonesty will surely fail. Sam, how long are you willing to fake it, how long are you willing to lie? What happens 2, 3, 5 years from now WHEN he finds out. Please don't fool yourself into thinking he'll never find out. Do some research. Look up the thread of BS's who found out their WS's had affairs, years prior, but never told them, (lie by ommission). Many of these marriages crumbled, not from the intial infidelity, but the years of deceit. I write this 2X4 from the other side not out of spite, but with love. Judging by what you've wrote, if you're honest with your husband he's not gonna throw away 20 some years of marriage because of your momentary indiscretion. Yes he's gonna be hurt, upset, angry, but you know what, in the long run he will respect you for being honest no matter what the costs. Being honest with him will show that you are committed to making your marriage better than ever. It can be, it will just take a whole lot of work. Not just from him, but also YOU. I wish you the best Peace and God Bless,
Untouchable_Fire Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 You are right. I have tried to be square with you but you will not listen, so there is no point in communicating further. But remember this: my side is truth and love, your side is deceit and dishonor. Tell me truthfully , which is better? BJ, I think she is afraid of losing her husband. I believe that in time she may do the right thing and fess up, but at the moment, she feels their marriage is fragile.
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