Managing someone out in my company

[Blackfrost]

God I hate doing this, but I have someone that I am working with to remove them from their pretty high level position. As tough and hard edged as everyone thinks I am "oh, this will be easy for you, you've been doing this kind of stuff for years - where as we could never handle conflict management well" it still sucks to do this. To me that's a cop out and a load of cr@p from half @ssed managers . Yes, I've done this before, but NO, this is no easier for me than anyone else.

 

I'd liked to hear any mechanisms for coping that people use when having to do this to someone else. I've always tried to distance myself a bit from it, and think about the situation where the overall health of my division is greater than any one person who refuses to get onboard with the clearly defined goals, and continues to operate in a rogue manner.

 

I guess the problems that bother me most, are that I am very sensitive and care a great deal about everyone, and when any of my people are not doing their best, then I feel like it's something that I haven't done right, in order to properly motivate and inspire that person towards being a successful member of the team.

 

I lose sleep over doing things like this, and I really wish I could feel a bit less personal guilt over doing these kinds of things.

[imani]

If you are managing someone on your team who is falling short, why not speak with them directly to address what your issues are with their performance? Just be upfront.

 

If you don't see them as being able to perform better, then give them a warning and enough time to work on the issues and improve. If they still fail to improve, then fire them straight out. That's the least you can do. That whole "working with someone to have them removed" thing is shady... and if anything it's going to make you look horrible to the employees who are still under you. Don't become that type of a manager.

 

You're there to help manage a company, but do so with integrity. Don't reward bad behaviour by keeping a bad employee on, but by no means should you stoop to the level of being sneaky just to get him/her to leave. Have a meeting, inform them of where they ar doing great and inform them of where they are falling short. This way, they at least are made aware that there are problems and have the chance to either fix them or move on.

 

Just know that life will go on, and try not to linger on doing what you have to do. At the end of the day, you're there to help your boss. Its business... someone will always be on the "hurt" end. Just try to manage the situation with professional integrity, and treat your troubled employee in the same manner you would like to be treated if you were on their end. If it were me, I'd feel better about a manager who gave me time to correct problems as oppose to ne who worked behind my back to get me removed.

 

The fact that you even wrote this post and have such strong feelings about it says a lot about you to me. You seem like you'd do the right thing. Now stop beating yourself up over this or else your boss may start to questioning your abilities to manage. Don't let that happen and good luck.

[clv0116]

God I hate doing this, but I have someone that I am working with to remove them from their pretty high level position.

 

If they're in a high level position they've probably been there a while and more than likely exhibited great talent in the past. What has changed? I'd start by identifying when the change happened and what can be done to get that person back to being an outstanding and valuable contributor.

 

Otherwise you've trained and built this employee for nothing, and even worse, you're potentially throwing an expert to your competitors simply because you can't figure out how to use the sharp end of this particular tool.

[Taramere]

God I hate doing this, but I have someone that I am working with to remove them from their pretty high level position. As tough and hard edged as everyone thinks I am "oh, this will be easy for you, you've been doing this kind of stuff for years - where as we could never handle conflict management well" it still sucks to do this.

 

It must suck. Managing someone out of an organisation isn't conflict management; let's be honest about that. It might lead to a conflict later on if and when they decide to take an action against the company....but until that point, it's simply a long drawn out firing process. Implementation about a decision that's already been made, with lip service being paid to the notion of consulting the employee and helping them to make improvements. That's what I've always understood "managing a person out" to mean. Does it mean something different in this context?

 

If it doesn't and your company is implementing performance monitoring and additional on the job training to demonstrate (to any future court or tribunal, should the dismissed employee take action) that it "did all it could to help the employee", then the company is not acting in good faith. Nobody is going to respond well to, or benefit from, performance monitoring and extra training if all their instincts scream "I'm being slowly managed out here. They just want rid of me."

 

Coaching, monitoring and additional training are methods that should be applied in good faith and with a genuine desire to help the person to do their job better/address any interpersonal difficulties they might have with another member of staff.

 

I'd liked to hear any mechanisms for coping that people use when having to do this to someone else. I've always tried to distance myself a bit from it, and think about the situation where the overall health of my division is greater than any one person who refuses to get onboard with the clearly defined goals, and continues to operate in a rogue manner.

 

If someone is refusing to co-operate with clearly defined goals, then certainly where I live that is conduct they can be disciplined and ultimately dismissed for. Which needn't be a lengthy process. They get a clear idea of where they're going wrong, the opportunity to improve and you brainstorm with them in an effort to figure out what they and the company can do to reverse the problems.

 

I second the advice imani and clv have already given you. I think the way to cope with having to do that with someone is to ensure that you're being fair and honest in your dealings with them. Give them an informal warning, and be direct that it's a warning which could lead to a formal warning if improvements aren't made. Outline very clearly what improvements are required.

 

 

guess the problems that bother me most, are that I am very sensitive and care a great deal about everyone, and when any of my people are not doing their best, then I feel like it's something that I haven't done right, in order to properly motivate and inspire that person towards being a successful member of the team.

 

Maybe if it's come to the point where you're thinking of getting rid of someone, you need to focus less on trying to motivate and inspire them - more on being specific about what they need to do in order to hold on to their job. Motivation and inspiration are appropriate when people are performing adequately but could do better. This case would seem to call for more direct action - but action that is in good faith.

Edited October 31, 2009 by Taramere

[Blackfrost]

Thank you for the great advice everyone. I did give an informal warning, and actually worked really hard with this person to get them on track with clearly defined expectations. That person turned it around for a couple weeks then proceeded to start verbally abusing co-workers and teamates again - but this time - only when I wasn't present in my office. I spend alot of time at alot of other locations, as this is a major corporation with many offices around the city. Ultimately, I had to bring HR into it, and give out a formal written document, which this person then needed to sign and realize that they had X number of weeks to completely stop the abusive behavior - or be let go.

 

Now I'm at the point where the senior management wants this person out of here NOW (which doesn't work that way with this companies HR) but this person is trying really hard to turn it around again. Unfortunately there isn't too much this person can almost do anymore, as the team they manage doesn't want them here either.

 

My difficulty now is that this person has completely stopped doing everything that gets them in trouble, and is waiting out the time period, and I'm getting pressure to remove them, but without any issues happening during this X time period, I don't see how I can do this - even if it's expected of me to do it.

 

It's a really bad situation, and I feel like I'm going to be judged poorly by senior leaders, if I do not get this person out of here.

 

I'm a bit frustrated and strung out with this, as I mentioned before, because I want to believe that everyone is redeemable, and this person seriously does not want to lose their job, they just lack the professional maturity necessary to hold the position that they do. Sometimes I feel like the only person who is willing to work with people, while other managers hide behind their doors and expect me to clean up things that they don't want to handle.

 

Again, thank you for the kind words of advice

[Neutrino]

Blackfrost : you mentioned that person had been warned in the past - so for a short while he shaped up for trouble to blow over - but once it did - he started acting up again.

 

Although he's laying low now, it is just like before - he's waiting for trouble to blow over, the minute you cave and let him stay, you know what will happen - and this time - you will be blamed for it.... When the blame is directed at you - you will soon realize he does not share your sentiment and will let you take the fall for his actions

 

So hold your breath and take action - difficult is still not impossible...

 

Good luck

Edited November 1, 2009 by Neutrino

[Taramere]

My difficulty now is that this person has completely stopped doing everything that gets them in trouble, and is waiting out the time period, and I'm getting pressure to remove them, but without any issues happening during this X time period, I don't see how I can do this - even if it's expected of me to do it.

 

It's a really bad situation, and I feel like I'm going to be judged poorly by senior leaders, if I do not get this person out of here.

 

Out of the company altogether, or off that particular project?

 

I'm a bit frustrated and strung out with this, as I mentioned before, because I want to believe that everyone is redeemable, and this person seriously does not want to lose their job, they just lack the professional maturity necessary to hold the position that they do. Sometimes I feel like the only person who is willing to work with people, while other managers hide behind their doors and expect me to clean up things that they don't want to handle.

 

That's what it sounds like....and don't forget who'll be copping the blame if this guy raises an action against the company. They're asking you to get rid of him, even though he's co-operating with the expectations that were outlined for him during the warning. If he was abusive to colleagues, then that strikes me as what we refer to (on this side of the pond) as gross misconduct. You seem to have lost the window of opportunity to fire him for that. If it was going to be done, it should have been done at the time. As far as I can see there are only three ways of getting rid of someone in the situation you've outlined.

 

1. The company dismisses them, accepts that an action for unfair dismissal may result from this - and takes the view that it will defend any action and/or attempt to negotiate an extra-judicial settlement with him if and when he raises a claim.

 

2. Similar to the above, the company decides to make him redundant and asks him to sign a compromise agreement. I forget what you call them in the US, but the term is self explanatory. The agreement includes clauses whereby he waives any right to take subsequent legal action, the company pays for him to take independent legal advice on the contract (don't know if that's part of the law in the US - you might want to PM Star_gazer, gorilla theater or grogster and ask them to weigh in if they wish) and the independent legal adviser negotiates with the company's lawyers over a settlement package. You probably know about all that already, but I'm mentioning it because so far you haven't presented it as an option the company is considering.

 

3. You heap pressure on the guy until he leaves of (on the face of it) "his own accord". Which potentially will be deemed as bullying and will leave the company vulnerable to a claim of constructive dismissal. Which could mean publicity if he proceeds with a claim.

 

If it were me, I'd go back to these senior managers and given them advice along the lines of "these are the only three options I can think of for dealing with this situation. Unless you can present any alternative options, you're going to have to select one of these three. Bear in mind that I won't co-operate with any request to apply covert or overt pressure to drive this guy out. It's not my managerial style. Plus I'm not exposing myself to the personal liability that could result from deliberately imposing stress on an employee. So assuming that isn't an option for you, what are your thoughts about the other two options? Option one will expose the company to greater risk, but will be cheaper in the unlikely event that he doesn't take any action. Option two strikes me as the most realistic, but it may not be a cheap solution. Do you have any alternative suggestions?"

 

I know it sounds a bit stroppy, and nobody likes to risk incurring the wrath of managers by being stroppy....but sometimes you just have to be that way. They aren't really leaving you with any option here, given their desire for a result uncoupled with the willingness to make any decisions. Given that the man has behaved abusively towards colleagues, I realise that the notion of him ever arguing that he was bullied might seem ridiculous - but stranger arguments have been made with success. On the subject of bullying, it does seem clear that you do need to get rid of this guy. He's shown that he has a temper under stress, and he's already been abusive to others on the team. The company has a duty to those other employees to protect them from that kind of thing.

 

I'd have thought the compromise agreement route is probably the best one in this situation. Can you argue a need for redundancies, or would you have to recruit a new employee to replace him? If you can't argue redundancy, I suppose you would have to rely on the "things are not working out" approach - but that's something you have to work out with your HR dept. The severance agreement route isn't necessarily cheap from a short term perspective, but it seems like the fairest and speediest way of getting an employee out. Most persuasively, if you can go down that route it removes the cloud of uncertainty about whether he'll raise an action at a later date. Better for the company, and also probably better for him. He might try to get a reference as part of the package, but you could be in a somewhat tricky position there as this guy has already been disciplined for being abusive to colleagues.

 

I really don't think it would be wise for you to accept any "we don't know...it's for you to deal with this" buck passing from management. It's an employment law issue as much as a managerial one, and any decision taken here needs to be taken with the benefit of consultation with an employment law expert plus all the managers who want this guy out. It's neither fair nor realistic for management to expect you to somehow conjure up a solution that deals with the situation swiftly and protects the company from liability. They need to take responsibility here too. Again, it would be helpful for you to get advice from someone who knows the employment laws in your jurisdiction....because again, this is now a legal issue as much as (if not more than) it's a managerial one.

Edited November 1, 2009 by Taramere