Question to the OW

[NoIDidn't]

Serial monogamy is the answer.

 

LOL. But that's exactly what we already do. All of us. We date one person, most of the time at a time, and then break up. Then we date someone else.

 

Same with marriage.

 

Most of us have a series of committed relationships throughout our lifetimes.

 

But if love was enough in the first relationship, there would never have been a second relationship to do the serial monogamy thing.

[MizzBlue72]

again, not talking about pleasing people...talking about causing them pain and not caring about anyone else in the process.

 

Not ALL of the OW on this board WANT to cause pain and we DO care about the BS!!! God - I know I do!!!

I think about this EVERYDAY -- EVERYDAY!!!

 

Yes, it is extremely easy to a lot of people on here to walk away. For some of us - it is SO damn hard... for MANY reasons!!

 

As an OW - I have caused pain to MYSELF, the MM AND the BS. I KNOW THAT.

 

It's the reconciling of what is 'now' that I myself am dealing with. I hate myself. More today than I have EVER in my life.

 

Does that make it better for others on here to know that yeah, some of the OW here DO have a conscience, and feelings, and are SO messed up from what we have ALLOWED happen to us that we don't know what to do??

 

I just don't get it some days .... I am not looking to please others either. I am trying to figure out what in the hell to do ...

[boldjack]

For an OM/OW, there are three basic character flaws, 1) empathy 2) integrity 3) self-esteem. If these three feelings are present, affairs don't take place.

[MizFit]

For an OM/OW, there are three basic character flaws, 1) empathy 2) integrity 3) self-esteem. If these three feelings are present, affairs don't take place.

 

Wow Dr boldjack...glad you have everyone so wrapped up in a sweet little package.

 

I am much like OWoman...I'm an emotionally healthy woman and I have a good life. When I met MM I wasn't broken...now that MM has gone back to his wife my heart is broken, but I am not.

 

It appears that some participants in this forum aren't going to allow any OW to be anything but submissive and subservient to their views. If we disagree, we are wrong. If we aren't sniffling, we are cruel. If we don't shoulder the guilt, we are not empathetic.

 

We dare lay the blame where the blame belongs-on the AP. As OWoman has said so many times people are only as taken as they allow themselves to be.

 

You're right as well FA. If we decide to fight for what we want why should we be villified? He is the one who brought us in so if there is still a corner to fight why are considered wrong to fight? My MM has gone back to his wife to try and make things right. It is something I told him to do months ago, many times in fact...now he's doing it. I miss him and still love him more than I ever thought I could, but he is doing the right thing and I respect his decision to do it. I fought until he told me what he'd decided, but I never backed down from what I wanted until then.

[OWoman]

For an OM/OW, there are three basic character flaws, 1) empathy 2) integrity 3) self-esteem. If these three feelings are present, affairs don't take place.

 

It's easy to "diagnose" strangers you've never met, about whom you know only a small part of one aspect of their lives, over the internet. Yet, for those who know us (OW/OMs) IRL, whether as friends, colleagues, family or other associates, the "findings" may be completely different.

 

Colleagues can attest to our integrity, friends to our empathy, family to our self-esteem (at the minimum - usually all groups can attest to each aspect). We ourselves know whether we're healthy or broken in the dimensions that matter to us (mentally, physically, morally, socially, politically, ethically, etc).

 

I know my empathy, integrity and self-esteem are all perfectly intact. And, while my moral framework may differ from BJ's (or any other poster who makes similar claims), I don't feel a need to shove my morality down their throats or slag them off for not meeting my standards - because I accept that there are many moralities and many cultures and many social norms out there, and because I enjoy diversity and don't feel threatened by it. I grew up in a multi-cultural country surrounded by a myriad views on everything, and chose my own views to be consistent with the morality I forged through my life experiences - and I acknowledge that most people have done the same (aside from those who uncritically accept whatever their parents / political leaders / religious leaders / the TV tells them to believe)

 

So I know that BJ's statement that "If these three feelings [sic] are present, affairs don't take place" is nonsense, since my lived experience has proven otherwise. I had all three attributes, yet I participated willingly in a number of As, ergo, the presence of those three attributes does not rule out the possibility of an A.

 

That's the trouble with making such sweeping claims - it only takes a single example to the contrary to nullify the claim.

 

Nice try, but no cigar....

[RedDevil66]

For an OM/OW, there are three basic character flaws, 1) empathy 2) integrity 3) self-esteem. If these three feelings are present, affairs don't take place.

 

I agree 101%, but the smugness and "fake maturity" of some of these cheaters is called denial.

You cannot, in any way, use words or actions to break the deep denial some people live in. It's a "live and learn" process.

Some people are so "sick" in their thought process and really are lacking that sensitivity chip, they will never see their sickness.

 

When I was a cheater sleeping with someone else's husband, no one could tell me I was wrong. Why, well I come from a wonderful background, great job, good friends, good family, I have WADS of self esteem, self respect and tons of integrity, more than anyone I know.

Hell, I work with the elderly, save strays and have tons of empathy for everyone.

I'm not cold hearted so hey, how can I be wrong to be having an affair.

 

Turns out, I was a low life who believed a lot of what these cheaters believed in themselves.

I'm thankful I had some "divine intervention" to show me my denial.

 

All cheaters are the EXACT same, whether they like to believe it or not.

No point in trying to change their minds. Their "awakening" day will come.

[RedDevil66]

Speak for yourself, sweetheart!

 

Unless you have some truly warped (and out of synch with that accepted by professional psychologists) definition of well, or happy, you'd be completely wrong in my case.

Your calling the sky green doesn't make it so.

 

Sure I am.........sweetheart!

[MizFit]

I agree 101%, but the smugness and "fake maturity" of some of these cheaters is called denial.

You cannot, in any way, use words or actions to break the deep denial some people live in. It's a "live and learn" process.

Some people are so "sick" in their thought process and really are lacking that sensitivity chip, they will never see their sickness.

 

When I was a cheater sleeping with someone else's husband, no one could tell me I was wrong. Why, well I come from a wonderful background, great job, good friends, good family, I have WADS of self esteem, self respect and tons of integrity, more than anyone I know.

Hell, I work with the elderly, save strays and have tons of empathy for everyone.

I'm not cold hearted so hey, how can I be wrong to be having an affair.

 

Turns out, I was a low life who believed a lot of what these cheaters believed in themselves.

I'm thankful I had some "divine intervention" to show me my denial.

 

All cheaters are the EXACT same, whether they like to believe it or not.

No point in trying to change their minds. Their "awakening" day will come.

 

As an OW I agree with that statement, no matter how much sarcasm it's laced with. Of course as a BS I felt the same...the OW did not wrong me-my husband did. I held no animosity for her whatsoever...that was all saved for the man who stood in front of God and said he'd never stray.

 

I agree with you...there is no point in trying to change minds. I would refer that back to people who refuse to believe the blame rests with the spouses who make themselves available.

 

I'm glad you had your divine intervention...we all need something to bring ourselves around at times.

[boldjack]

Please, I was answering the questions. I did not mention your name, Owoman, nor was I "snarky", like Mizfit. I simply stated my beliefs, that have been formulated , by my experiences as an OM/MM. I have not personally attacked anybody, and I would at least expect courtsey in return. I fully realize (as a former MM) that I bore the main responsibility for my affairs, and that the married AP is far more "guilty", than the single AP. But my findings still stand. Anyone , who has a relationship with a married person, lacks integrity. If they were honest, they would not be involved with something that is immoral and in many places , illegal. They lack empathy, because if they possessed this quality, the would not be able to aid in causing harm to innocent people, namely , the BS and the children. If they had self-esteem, to have an affair would be beneath them, they would scorn the deceit and secrecyand sleazyness, necessary to have an affair. The bottom line is that you are what you do. And the biggest lie of all is that good people have affairs. An OM/OW may , indeed, have been a good person BEFORE the affair, and they may be good people, AFTER the affair, but during the affair, not so much. I have been guilty of all of these things myself, so I am not pointing any fingers. I'm willing to discuss this with any poster, but please, at least, try to be polite.

[MizFit]

Please, I was answering the questions. I did not mention your name, Owoman, nor was I "snarky", like Mizfit. I simply stated my beliefs, that have been formulated , by my experiences as an OM/MM. I have not personally attacked anybody, and I would at least expect courtsey in return. I fully realize (as a former MM) that I bore the main responsibility for my affairs, and that the married AP is far more "guilty", than the single AP. But my findings still stand. Anyone , who has a relationship with a married person, lacks integrity. If they were honest, they would not be involved with something that is immoral and in many places , illegal. They lack empathy, because if they possessed this quality, the would not be able to aid in causing harm to innocent people, namely , the BS and the children. If they had self-esteem, to have an affair would be beneath them, they would scorn the deceit and secrecyand sleazyness, necessary to have an affair. The bottom line is that you are what you do. And the biggest lie of all is that good people have affairs. An OM/OW may , indeed, have been a good person BEFORE the affair, and they may be good people, AFTER the affair, but during the affair, not so much. I have been guilty of all of these things myself, so I am not pointing any fingers. I'm willing to discuss this with any poster, but please, at least, try to be polite.

 

I'll be as polite as you are...I'll let you know that making sweeping generalizations about the moral and ethical character of people you've never met isn't the best way to start.

[Dexter Morgan]

Not ALL of the OW on this board WANT to cause pain and we DO care about the BS!!!

 

I agree...not ALL....just most. And I know that they don't necessarily WANT to cause pain, although some do relish in it, but most do NOT care about the pain they are HELPING to cause.

 

 

God - I know I do!!!

I think about this EVERYDAY -- EVERYDAY!!!

 

then you are of the minority, and I can respect you for that.

 

 

 

As an OW - I have caused pain to MYSELF, the MM AND the BS. I KNOW THAT.

 

in your situation, I can possibly sympathize with your pain, definitely the pain of the BS......BUT IN NO WAY, shape or form does the MM/MW deserve any sympathy for their so-called pain in my opinion.

 

 

 

Does that make it better for others on here to know that yeah, some of the OW here DO have a conscience, and feelings, and are SO messed up from what we have ALLOWED happen to us that we don't know what to do??

 

I think it does make it better, and thank you for sharing your feelings. But your insight and attitude is the minority here.

[Dexter Morgan]

I'll be as polite as you are...I'll let you know that making sweeping generalizations about the moral and ethical character of people you've never met isn't the best way to start.

 

Its not a sweeping generalization about the moral and ethical character of people......IF they are behaving immorally and unethically.

 

that is, unless you think there is something morally, ethically, or scrupulously right about sleeping with other people's spouses and cheating

[MizFit]

Its not a sweeping generalization about the moral and ethical character of people......IF they are behaving immorally and unethically.

 

that is, unless you think there is something morally, ethically, or scrupulously right about sleeping with other people's spouses and cheating

 

No...you are not speaking of the act...you are speaking of the person. Know what...I've fought with you in other threads and you just refuse to allow anyone to believe the blame belongs to the spouse that is committing adultery. You don't discuss things that are given back to you and you continually are on a high horse about things and allow no room for discussion I'll leave you to it and you can keep on telling people how wrong their thoughts are and that they truly aren't entitled to their opinions and emotions because they differ from yours.

[Blue Eyed Brain]

Question: What are you lacking within yourself that makes it tolerable

for you to be involved with a MM?

 

Hopefully, I can explain what I mean. Even though I see a MM, technically, I consider myself the mistress instead of the OW. To me, the mistress has a role, the OW has a position. Being in a different situation than most of the OW on this board, I can relate or understand on some levels and not at all on others. But I think the posted question applies to anyone, past or currently, involved with a MM. What I mean by the question is this...

I think most people (statistically it’s said 90%) think A are wrong. I imagine that most OW (myself included) have that same opinion. I wouldn’t want my S/O to lie and cheat on me yet I have no problem about my part in it happening to someone else. So I thought what is it about myself that would make the unacceptable acceptable? Why would I essentially say I don’t mind sharing YOUR partner and I don’t have a high standard on honesty and commitment in YOUR R, but I want it in mine?

If I take full responsibility for my own actions and honestly answer the question, I come up with this abbreviated version: I am lacking a lot confidence in situations where I can’t get by on looks, charm, and/or personality. My life has been structured in such a shallow way that things outside of the superficial always leaves me with doubts and reservations about myself and ability, even if I know I am able. I become afraid to take the chance because I fear rejection. So my answer is I’m dating (or date) MM because it makes me feel more worthy about myself and masks my inadequacies.

 

 

I don't think of it the way you do. MM are the ones that are placing themselves lower than everyone else, because they do not value themselves and what they have. They de-value it by going outside the marriage and hence being cowardly.

 

The OW if not married, is seeking affection from someone else. She may not want a commitment of marriage and that's what makes the affair appealing.

[Dexter Morgan]

Know what...I've fought with you in other threads and you just refuse to allow anyone to believe the blame belongs to the spouse that is committing adultery.

 

then apparently you can't read very well. I have said numerous times the MM/MW is the most to blame. that, however, does not mitigate the OW/OM's despicable role in aiding and abetting.

 

I've said this time and time again, so either glossed over it, or you did read what I've said and are making up a lie.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Dexter Morgan

[boldjack]

Mizfit, If you can dissprove anything I have said, in a rational manner, please do so. I'm willing to learn, and also willing to admit my faults. I have said repeatedly the the MAJOR fault lies with the MM/MW, but fault also lies with the OM/OW. Neither party in an affair are blameless, unless the WS has not told the OM/OW of their married status.

[boldjack]

Owoman, Your "proofs ", of your character lack credibility. Your collegues don not KNOW You are honest, they BELIEVE you are. A quick proof: go tell your collegues that you have been in an extra-marital affair, see if their evaluation of you changes. It is easy, even expected for you to be empathetic to friends. The question is how empathetic were you to the BS and Children? If you feel that they were none of your concern, then that should give you your answer. How can your family judge your self-esteem? It is SELF esteem..........., not their esteem FOR you. If you feel that you did NOTHING wrong, were always honest about and to the BS, if you always had the welfare of the children , foremost in your mind, and believe that you did absolutley no wrong, then you might want to add self-delusion to that list. I am a good , honest, faithful, caring man........now!! When I was a cheating , deceiving , *******, I was none of those things. The difference is that I can admit my faults, you apparently have difficulty doing this. Also bear in mind that I am NOT saying that these character flaws are permanent or that they are all-encompassing.

Edited November 16, 2009 by boldjack

[OWoman]

Owoman, Your "proofs ", of your character lack credibility. Your collegues don not KNOW You are honest, they BELIEVE you are. A quick proof: go tell your collegues that you have been in an extra-marital affair, see if their evaluation of you changes. It is easy, even expected for you to be empathetic to friends. The question is how empathetic were you to the BS and Children? If you feel that they were none of your concern, then that should give you your answer. How can your family judge your self-esteem? It is SELF esteem..........., not their esteem FOR you. If you feel that you did NOTHING wrong, were always honest about and to the BS, if you always had the welfare of the children , foremost in your mind, and believe that you did absolutley no wrong, then you might want to add self-delusion to that list. I am a good , honest, faithful, caring man........now!! When I was a cheating , deceiving , *******, I was none of those things. The difference is that I can admit my faults, you apparently have difficulty doing this. Also bear in mind that I am NOT saying that these character flaws are permanent or that they are all-encompassing.

 

BJ, you've either misread or willfully misinterpreted what I said. Nowhere did I present "proofs" of my character - I made certain assertions backed up with anecdotal evidence. I've been a researcher far too long to pass that off as "proofs". Rather, I stated that since I provided one example to the contrary of your generalised, all-encompassing claim, I had nullified / disproven your claim - which is something else entirely. I stand by that.

 

However, since you want to engage, I'll humour you and tell you that of course my colleagues know of the A. My H, his xW and I all work in the same field, so it was well-known that (1) he and I were "an item"; (2) he was married to her; ergo (3) our R must be an EMA. Did it ever bother anyone? No. These are grown-up, educated people, working in progressive, enlightened contexts. They could care less what Sarah Palin might think about it, they think for themselves. Of course his colleagues know of the A, too. Has that impacted on either of our reputations, career prospects or status? Only in a positive way.

 

How empathetic was I to his xW and kids? You can ask his kids about that - we're very close, they supported him in the A and were excited about the prospect of us forming a "proper family". I was very much motivated by their best interests, though admittedly it wasn't my primary concern. Empathy for his xW I will happily confess to being short on - but then, I regard abuse in a very poor light, and while I can feel sorry for her given her flaky mental health, I cannot forgive the way she treated her then-H and kids, people she was supposed to love and cherish. I have zero sympathy for the "tragic childhood" Joseph Fritzl suffered; his subsequent behaviour put him into a category of "waste of space" to me. Same with her, although she didn't go as far as digging a dungeon (that would be too much like hard work for her...). I was certainly always honest ABOUT her, albeit not TO her - I've never had the call one way or another as we've never interacted. (And if we did, I certainly would tell her honestly what I thought of her...)

 

I have no difficulty admitting my flaws - but they're not those you wish to paint me having.

[boldjack]

Owoman, anecdotal evidence is no evidence, and can be used neither to prove anything or dissprove anything. Your attempt to "dissprove". my assertions are no more valid than your attempts to "prove", your character, by the use of hearsay. I actually believe most of what you are saying about your relationship, but still stand by my assertions, and will do so until somebody can dissprove them with factual evidence. I also stated that these character flaws were NOT all encompassing, but apparently you chose to ignore that. But even in your "pristine", affair, you AT THE TIME, were guilty of possessing some these Character flaws, at least in part. You mention being less than honest to the BW, and that the kids were not your primary concern. So it would seem that I have a valid point after all. I don not begrudge that you are defending your position, please return the courtesy. I have always thought that you were/are an honest and intelligent poster, and bear you NO personal animosity.

[White Flower]

Question: What are you lacking within yourself that makes it tolerable

for you to be involved with a MM?

 

Hopefully, I can explain what I mean. Even though I see a MM, technically, I consider myself the mistress instead of the OW. To me, the mistress has a role, the OW has a position. Being in a different situation than most of the OW on this board, I can relate or understand on some levels and not at all on others. But I think the posted question applies to anyone, past or currently, involved with a MM. What I mean by the question is this...

I think most people (statistically it’s said 90%) think A are wrong. I imagine that most OW (myself included) have that same opinion. I wouldn’t want my S/O to lie and cheat on me yet I have no problem about my part in it happening to someone else. So I thought what is it about myself that would make the unacceptable acceptable? Why would I essentially say I don’t mind sharing YOUR partner and I don’t have a high standard on honesty and commitment in YOUR R, but I want it in mine?

If I take full responsibility for my own actions and honestly answer the question, I come up with this abbreviated version: I am lacking a lot confidence in situations where I can’t get by on looks, charm, and/or personality. My life has been structured in such a shallow way that things outside of the superficial always leaves me with doubts and reservations about myself and ability, even if I know I am able. I become afraid to take the chance because I fear rejection. So my answer is I’m dating (or date) MM because it makes me feel more worthy about myself and masks my inadequacies.

 

Someonesangel what a great post!

 

Skylarblue, I don't see anything lacking in myself. I am a strong, caring, and yet courageous woman all at once. I do it all by myself and am completely capable. We all have flaws and we all search for things that are missing. MM fit me and I fit him.

 

Once the love grew and become deeper I began to analyze so much more. One of the things I shared with him when I ended it was that I didn't want to see him as someone who could go on cheating and taking advantage of what we had. I needed him to chose, and lose one of us. I think he finally understood this.

 

It may be ironic that I only focused on this fact years later and not in the beginning but that was our path. Not everyone's path is the same. People want to put us into boxes upon birth and force us to live the same lives but it is impossible. Free will people, free will. And we freely came to this conclusion in the name of love without any doctrine being forced upon us.

[Fallen Angel]

Its got nothing to do with "worth". Its got everything to do with the marriage that you are not a part of and have no right expecting the married one to just walk away for something as flimsy as "love".

 

Love isn't enough to run a relationship on. If it were, no one would ever divorce because the love that got them to the altar would still be there.

 

Its very hypocritical, IMO, of anyone to basically make a claim that they have a right to hang on to someone else's spouse (invited by that spouse or not), becauase were the roles reversed and they were married to the person they'd want the OP to get out of the picture as well.

 

This blind adherence to love is exactly what keeps many an OP hanging on in a situation where its clear that the MP has already made a choice but just isn't being honest about it. A choice to keep the OP that is willing to hang on to a promise of a future, and a choice to keep the spouse that is actually getting that future in the meantime.

 

How is that hypocritical? I mean the fact is, I was saying that both the BP and the OP want the WP. And that it is hypocritical for anyone to say that one has any more RIGHT to love that person and want to fight for them. What gives the BS mpore right? Because they said some vows that the WS obviously doesn't value? That makes them more worthy?

 

Again, whether people like it or not, the OP is "in the marriage" because they were INVITED in. You can claim all you want that that has no bearing, but in truth it does. My MM invited me in, gave me a "position in his M. You cn say it is on the "outside" but if that were the real truth, BSs wouldn't be here berating OPs, because our existance on the "outside" would make us a non issue.

[NoIDidn't]

How is that hypocritical? I mean the fact is, I was saying that both the BP and the OP want the WP. And that it is hypocritical for anyone to say that one has any more RIGHT to love that person and want to fight for them. What gives the BS mpore right? Because they said some vows that the WS obviously doesn't value? That makes them more worthy?

 

Again, whether people like it or not, the OP is "in the marriage" because they were INVITED in. You can claim all you want that that has no bearing, but in truth it does. My MM invited me in, gave me a "position in his M. You cn say it is on the "outside" but if that were the real truth, BSs wouldn't be here berating OPs, because our existance on the "outside" would make us a non issue.

 

I find it unbelievable that you can't see your own hypocrisy in this.

 

You have no right to fight for another woman's husband. He is someone's husband. And if he were actually YOUR husband, I doubt you'd be handing him over to some OW.

 

Back to this idea of "worth". Once again, its not about worth. He's her husband, she gets to fight for the life that she has had until now. And what exactly is the point of the OW fighting for him? He's the one having the affair. He should be fighting for you, as you will likely say that his stepping out of his marriage is because there is something wrong with it.

 

When an OW has to fight for her MM, she really needs to reevaluate the EMA. Because according to what I have read here, she shouldn't have to fight for a man that loves her the mostest anyway.

 

Honestly, why fight for man that apparently is showing you that he wants you more anyway by sneaking behind his W's back to *date* you?

 

I can certainly understand a BWs desire to fight for her marriage. It is her life and her lifeline. Good or bad, its hers and his - not some OWs. And while you have been invited in, you can just as easily be uninvited.

 

Again, this is not an issue of worth. I don't know why you keep coming back to that. Sounds like a personal issue, not one that can be really addressed here, IMO.

Edited November 18, 2009 by NoIDidn't

[RedDevil66]

Owoman, anecdotal evidence is no evidence, and can be used neither to prove anything or dissprove anything. Your attempt to "dissprove". my assertions are no more valid than your attempts to "prove", your character, by the use of hearsay. I actually believe most of what you are saying about your relationship, but still stand by my assertions, and will do so until somebody can dissprove them with factual evidence. I also stated that these character flaws were NOT all encompassing, but apparently you chose to ignore that. But even in your "pristine", affair, you AT THE TIME, were guilty of possessing some these Character flaws, at least in part. You mention being less than honest to the BW, and that the kids were not your primary concern. So it would seem that I have a valid point after all. I don not begrudge that you are defending your position, please return the courtesy. I have always thought that you were/are an honest and intelligent poster, and bear you NO personal animosity.

 

You're a smart dude, what's the point of trying to make sense of a person who claims how truly noble and wise they are when they have a nickname that represented distain.

If they felt noble, would the nick not read with more self respect and would that person not be frequenting Cheaters Msg Boards if their life was in order as they claim?!

A bunch of words mean nodda, actions mean everything

Well educated does not equate to being smart :-)

[foreal]

Again, whether people like it or not, the OP is "in the marriage" because they were INVITED in. You can claim all you want that that has no bearing, but in truth it does. My MM invited me in, gave me a "position in his M. Y.

 

I never thought of it this way- that the OW was INVITED into the M. This is true!!! My H DID invite the OW into the M.

 

The OW's invite is not, however, the same kind the H offered to the W when they got M. The H and W invited each other to be a part of each other's lives, forever...a permanent party invite where you live together, make a life together, party-on together forever (at least this is the idea going in the day they say "I do").

 

The OW's invite is more like the kind you get for a regular party: "You're invited! The party starts at 7 and goes till midnight- open bar!"...the fact that the MM and OW hang around together (and have sex etc) after the party is officially over doesn't change the fact that the MM's invite is not an open ended invite to the OW as it is for the W.

 

It brings to mind the ol' end of the party saying:

 

"You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here."

 

This is why being an OW would be hard for me...I love to party.

[skylarblue]

Originally Posted by OWoman

I don't have the cognitive dissonance you outline from believing As to be wrong…So to me, there was no contradiction between my beliefs and my actions…Did I lack anything? Not that I felt…

Sure, I think it’s absolutely possible to “lack nothing”, but ONLY if you believe that A aren’t wrong. I agree in this case there’s no contradiction between beliefs and actions which is why I stipulated “if you think A are wrong…”

 

Originally Posted by White Flower

Skylarblue, I don't see anything lacking in myself. I am a strong, caring, and yet courageous woman all at once. I do it all by myself and am completely capable. We all have flaws and we all search for things that are missing. MM fit me and I fit him…

 

IMO, the OW/OM at the least lacks empathy/compassion towards a deceived BS during the A. Now, I don’t think that makes the AP a person without empathy/compassion/etc., but I do think it’s lacked in the particular instance. As you said everyone has flaws. Do I think I’m “inadequate” as a person? No. I’m attractive, I’m 28 and I have 2 degrees. I’m smart, I’m personable…But I’m aware of my own character weaknesses/inadequacies which again is why I choose to date MM. For me, I have to prove that I’m better than you by “taking” your “loving, devoted” H because I haven’t or refused to build up my own self-esteem by “meaningful” accomplishments. If a woman has this “perfect life and M” and I can come between that just by being a “pretty, fawning girl”, I get a feeling of self-accomplishment and self-worth. I need the challenge of the “happily” MM because I feel absolute in my ability to get anyone I choose. I can’t say I have the same confidence in “life” challenges. Again, just me. I’m not projecting that onto anyone else….IMO, anyone in an A (who thinks it’s wrong) where the WS is deceiving the BS, but continues the R considers his/her needs to be more important than others (again, pertaining to the A, not their character in general).