Question to the OW

[moaningmyrtle]

That is the true reality. ALL are hurt, all are "broken" and all pay the price.

 

 

Myrtle

 

I didn't quote you, but I will try to address most of your questions. First you immediatly responded to a post asking for OW opinions assuming you could in a "nutshell" give an overview.

 

I personally found it to be the normal, they will say " this" as usual.

 

My question to you was simple. What do you WANT or NEED us to say. You did not in your original post suggest you may be broken as you did in one of your last posts. You suggested that we will "excuse" it away or at least that is how I read it.

 

I directed my post at you, because I was responding to your post. I was not rude, however again that is the automatic response when posed with a differing viewpoint. I asked a question. What can any of us possibly tell you that will make you feel better?

 

That I felt guilt - I did

 

That I wish I would have done something differently - That too

 

That I even had a remote idea how painful this would be - No clue going into it.

 

What do you want to know?

 

What I am saying is, many long term affair OW are not going to give you the answers you seek. For those that were in a full blown EA and PA you are not going to like the answers.

 

Did we love each other - YES and we still do

 

Would we have ended without a DDay - No we would not have

 

Have we continued to talk or carry on an affair - MANY have proven they have and continue while WS is in MC or trying to save the marriage.

 

I simply don't know what you want and it was a question as well as a view that all of your 6 points could easily and factually be turned around, but you don't want to hear that.

 

In a nutshell, if you seek answers that is great but understand that it is very possible the OW here without any reason to lie are being honest with those answers and are not sugarcoating them.

 

I really think we have been talking at cross-purposes. I think I have now made it clear that I accept that the usual answers don't satisfy me. This is not because I am saying the OW are excusing it away, but probably because I have been so "broken" as you have put it.

 

I now consider I am a "recovering BW" so I don't want to pour out my pain in every single post. The pain is still there though. I'm sure everyone would find it very tedious if every time I posted I prefaced my remarks with "I have been terribly hurt by my H's affair". And comments such as yours that I have a closed mind and lack empathy are difficult for me to accept when it seems to me that you have had to read an awful lot between the lines to get to that stage.

 

Even reviewing your post above I can see you are trying to be conciliatory and I thank you for that. But you have still managed to get a little off track by saying you read my post in a certain way. And you still seem to think I require an answer from you - I don't; but I do accept your answer as being genuine for you - if that makes sense.

 

I thought you might be Misty again. Frankly I don't care if anybody comes back as another identity. Myrtle is my more assertive identity on LS.

 

She rarely asks questions about her own situation anymore. Part of the reason for this is that I am trying to recover my life after betrayal.

 

Myrtle

[tami-chan]

No not a trained specialist. As for the credibility of my post I think the majority of responses have in fact fallen within the categories I listed; with some overlap between them. I was merely saying what I expected to be the answers and I was right - I think.

 

Are you in effect, saying that there are no underlying reasons why an individual would fore go his/her own morals,go against society's mores/customs and defy religious dogma?. No you were not right. If you had waited for the OWs to do some honest introspection and shared it with the rest of the forum, you might have gained some answers that might help you understand your H's OW. This question is for the OW to ask herself why she chose to be in the relationship separate of the reasons the MM has given her....no matter if the MM lied, no matter if ths BW is horrible, etc.etc....

 

I'm not really sure why my attempt to pre-empt some of the answers has generated quite so much fuss. I wasn't even intending to be disrespectful but more trying to say that as a BS I may never understand - quite possibly because of something lacking in me rather than any lack of moral fibre or wholeness or whatever in OW generally {note that I am not saying this is my opinion just echoing your words}.

 

Exactly, pre-empting the responses of the intended pool was a bit presumptuous.

 

Here's my answer to the question, OP: As an OW, I realized after being on LS all these months....that I did feel entitled to have an affair because my H was a serial cheater. I was also a wounded person who lost faith that that there are men capable of fidelity. So to me, at that point in my life, it didnt matter if the person I was with was single or married.

[Fallen Angel]

Question: What are you lacking within yourself that makes it tolerable

for you to be involved with a MM?

 

Hopefully, I can explain what I mean. Even though I see a MM, technically, I consider myself the mistress instead of the OW. To me, the mistress has a role, the OW has a position. Being in a different situation than most of the OW on this board, I can relate or understand on some levels and not at all on others. But I think the posted question applies to anyone, past or currently, involved with a MM. What I mean by the question is this...

I think most people (statistically it’s said 90%) think A are wrong. I imagine that most OW (myself included) have that same opinion. I wouldn’t want my S/O to lie and cheat on me yet I have no problem about my part in it happening to someone else. So I thought what is it about myself that would make the unacceptable acceptable? Why would I essentially say I don’t mind sharing YOUR partner and I don’t have a high standard on honesty and commitment in YOUR R, but I want it in mine?

If I take full responsibility for my own actions and honestly answer the question, I come up with this abbreviated version: I am lacking a lot confidence in situations where I can’t get by on looks, charm, and/or personality. My life has been structured in such a shallow way that things outside of the superficial always leaves me with doubts and reservations about myself and ability, even if I know I am able. I become afraid to take the chance because I fear rejection. So my answer is I’m dating (or date) MM because it makes me feel more worthy about myself and masks my inadequacies.

 

When I started my EA with My MM, I was under the impression that he was divorced. We had never realy talked much about his "family", other than I knew that he had children (all but one grown), but he never spoke of a wife (in the numerous years *8* that I had been aquainted with him). I made an assumption, and he allowed that assumption to remain while we learned about each other, except for him omitting the fact that he was still married. He knew full well I was still in my marriage, which was both mentally and physically abusive, and he helped me to regain some feeling of self worth (I guess though when put in this context it really wasn't SELF WORTH, more a feeling of worth to SOMEONE ~ ANYONE) which I had been lacking for years, by loving me for who I was even in my most depressed and insane moments. So I would say at that point my fundamental flaw was a feeling of having NO worth to anyone.

 

After we moved our EA into a PA and I was made aware that he was still married, I continued the affair because I already loved him and desired him. And I put meeting my own emotional and physical needs above the possibility that when/if discovered that someone I did not know would feel pain. I guess it is a bit like watching the "Feed the Children" commercials, you see the pain and hardship endured by others, you know that it is real, and maybe you feel badly enough about it that you make a contribution to help, but deep down, you have this feeling of "Thank God, it is not ME and MY children!" It sounds cruel I know, but I never went into this intending to be cruel to anyone. I guess my fundamental flaw at this point though was selfishness.

 

Now I have reached a point of wanting to let go, wanting to move on and get out of this affair that is toxic to both myself and his wife. (he seems to be the only person who will come out of this not totally devestated). But, I find myself struggling to actually end it completely. We have had no physical contact for three weeks, but we still have phone contact several times a day, and I have no doubt that were he to show up on my doorstep I would be back in his arms this minute. I guess now my fundamental flaw is weakness. I love him, I do not think that saying that is invalid. That is a part of the equation and that is VERY valid. So perhaps another of my fundamental flaws is that I love too deeply, too completely. I don't know why I think I need to justify love as an answer, but because of the accusatory and dismissive tone of some of what is being said I feel I must. I do not think that my status as OW makes the fact that I am IN LOVE any less important than a BS who stays in their marriage for love. The BS stays for love and that is considered a perfectly acceptable justification, I don't understand how my postion in the triangle makes love any less genuine an explaination.

 

So, am I flawed? Yes, I am. But I don't know that I am any more flawed than anyone else.

[Dexter Morgan]

Myrtle

 

I have heard others suggest you seem very closed minded when it comes to any OW and I must admit, after reading several of your posts and seeing this one, I agree.

 

what is there that myrtle should be open minded about with regards to people that sleep with other people's spouses?

 

 

While you dispute that OW will excuse the MM or MW "choice" - every point you made can be turned around and directed to the BS.

 

uh, with the exception of a few rare OW/OM, that is exactly what they do all the time.....blame the BS. So you are kind of stating the obvious and stating that which happens time and time again.

 

 

1. Many MM continue affairs while in MC, "recovery" and even while living happily "saving the marriage".

 

if they are having affairs while MC is occurring, they aren't working to save anything. and they aren't too happy if they are having an affair...they are only wanting to save the marriage out of convenience.

 

 

2. SOMETIMES MM chooses to stay because of the children, life and past and a responsibility to that and not because they would not choose the OW in a one on one decision

 

responsibility? ya, ok. they had a responsibility to keep it in their pants. If i had cheated on my wife, I'd have been cheating on my kids too....because I'd be cheating and hurting someone they love and are dear to them.

 

 

3. Sometimes we DO fall in love. Play with fire, and you get burnt - and yes it is possible that the WS is in love with the AP. I can tell you that they WONT tell you, even if you think they will.

 

good!! then the WS can get a divorce and set the BS free...cuz BS who are mentally abused by the affair and aren't thinking straight don't always know what is good for them. Staying in a marriage with such a person is not good for them....they just are devestated and don't want the family ripped apart.

 

 

4. Many OW feel guilt and DO believe the BS is a good person

 

thats the minority opinion I have read here in this forum.

 

 

5. In my experience, very few long term affair OW believe the wife is terrible, why continue on that. I believe there are many threads stating exactly the opposite. Why can't you believe that?

 

because there are hella more posts to the contrary to that notion above. While they do happen, the threads of which you speak are few and far between.

 

 

And more important if the WS leaves the BS for the OW - the last is the exact statement we hear " She can have him". So to say that is used by the OW is closed minded imo, that is USED as a confidence builder for either party when faced with "losing" someone to someone else.

 

that wasn't what I thought at all. I really did thank the OM for taking her away. I told him he was now her problem....and he has since found out that she IS a problem....and now she is with the wrong man to be cheating on....he has a temper....BAD.

 

So yes, there are many out there that say "she/he can have him/her" and really mean it. Alot of us are happy to finally be free from a cheater. It just took some people longer to actually realize that.

[tami-chan]

what is there that myrtle should be open minded about with regards to people that sleep with other people's spouses?

 

Crazy thing, Dex, apparently, myrtle wants to understand...you need to have a talk to her on this one..one-on-one...

[NoIDidn't]

When I was the OW, it was because I was so naive. I didn't know most of the guys had SOs or fiances. I didn't think to ask. But when I did find out, I ended things. Sometimes they did.

 

It did leave me feeling that I wasn't good enough. But I had enough self-respect to know not to try to get them to keep seeing me to soothe my wounded ego. And I had a pretty large, and healthy ego.

 

I was young. I knew nothing of relationships or of people's deceptiveness. There were two times that I was willingly the OW, and that was my choice because it was convenient. I didn't feel that I was the one doing anything wrong. I didn't have a boyfriend or fiance to answer to - the guy did and in my mind (at the time) he should have been thinking about them.

 

I learned as an OW, and as a formerly BW that you will never have concrete enough answers for the things that you do or that other people do "to" you. Its interesting to hear people's motives. But it doesn't make you feel any better when you feel you have been wronged by the guy making empty promises or stating things like they stay with the SO because they feel "obligated" - or when the guy is your guy and they just chose to hurt you in that way.

[ladydesigner]

I learned as an OW, and as a formerly BW that you will never have concrete enough answers for the things that you do or that other people do "to" you. Its interesting to hear people's motives. But it doesn't make you feel any better when you feel you have been wronged by the guy making empty promises or stating things like they stay with the SO because they feel "obligated" - or when the guy is your guy and they just chose to hurt you in that way.

 

Yep exactly this. This is so very true. Why do we seek these answers? It's very funny even when you do get an answer it still doesn't help sort things out in a way that would make the person feel better, which is what we are all striving towards. I am also formerly an OW and BW and the answers stink from all sides, XOM, my H, and even my own answers.

[Virgo1982]

Emotions are not rational <------explains a lot.

[learnfrommymistakes]

Hi

To answer your question, a lot was missing in me..when I met the separated MM. First of all, he was separated, and I had no idea he had any intention to go back to wife.

 

But my issues:

I came from an abusive background, family, I had several serious chronic illnesses when we met and felt lifeless, I hated myself in some ways based on emotional abuse from my past, I physically was abused and I did not trust men. I was a commitment phobe and very independent. I was a mess, but on the outside I was fun, silly, looked healthier than I was, and felt an insane chemistry with this man when we met. I also never realized that a separation is not final, seriously I just assumed his marriage was over, I was naive...to that....never had dealt with a separated man...his wife was not part of the picutre as far as i knew.

 

he was the only man that I wanted physically and I became a sexual person without all the baggage with him. I just connected and felt insanely alive in his presence, not nearly as wounded and f-up as I was back then. Alnost every other time I had intimate relationships with men, i had to put myself in a mind frame to do it, and I hated it often.....

 

I had a good job, great friends and a busy life, but he took the wind out of me, I mean seriously he did. It was like a drug. I was no fool for love, and i always broke up with men preferring to be single. I dated wonderful men who were good to me, but i felt like i was forcing myself to be with them phsycially and cried often during sex, it triggered past abuse for me.

 

WHen i was with him, it never triggered anything bad, it did the opposite, so I was sort of hooked into that feeling....we only connected once a year, it was always long distance, but he felt like something i had never felt, I did not feel dirty or self conscious, I felt alive and sexy and it helped cure some of those old ugly places I did not want to ever go back to...I told him it was over probably 20 times, but i ended up getting weak and breaking NC, he was always good abt it, I was weak.

 

My heart just skipped a beat, really..for him and still does, tho we are not together.

 

SO very much was missing in me, but perhaps the word LOVE is the real deal. I was in love, and I had never felt anything close, he was/is hard to walk away from....

 

hope this helps

lfmm

[MizzBlue72]

What is wrong with me?

Well - I know for a fact I was absolutely lacking anything even remotely emotional or physical in my marriage. My ex and I never ever even talked ... I was too chicken **** to divorce when the A started. I actually thought I could stay in the M as a 'business prop' for our son. LOL ,,, yeah - didn't work.

 

What I lack now?? hmm - self respect I guess??

If I really am a strong independent woman, then why in the HELL am I sitting here waiting ... again ....

I love him. and I hate this ....

[OWoman]

Question: What are you lacking within yourself that makes it tolerable

for you to be involved with a MM?

 

I think the posted question applies to anyone, past or currently, involved with a MM. What I mean by the question is this...

I think most people (statistically it’s said 90%) think A are wrong. I imagine that most OW (myself included) have that same opinion. I wouldn’t want my S/O to lie and cheat on me yet I have no problem about my part in it happening to someone else. So I thought what is it about myself that would make the unacceptable acceptable? Why would I essentially say I don’t mind sharing YOUR partner and I don’t have a high standard on honesty and commitment in YOUR R, but I want it in mine?

 

I don't have the cognitive dissonance you outline from believing As to be wrong, and not wanting my "H spreading the lurve". I have no issue with As, and am not wedded to sexual exclusivity. I don't believe in the "sanctity" of M, and I believe one is as available as one chooses to be, by one's actions, rather than by any piece of paper.

 

So to me, there was no contradiction between my beliefs and my actions. I did not need a hole in my life to rationalise away my behaviour. It was entirely consistent with what I believed.

 

Did I lack anything? Not that I felt - I was happy, fulfilled, enjoying life to the full, with great kids, a wonderful extended family, awesome friends and spectacular lovers, a challenging and rewarding job, phenomenal students, loving pets and a nice house in a lovely location. What more could I want?

 

Not all OWs are broken, or trying to make up for their own "inadequacies". Some are choosing to live life on their own terms - whether some conservatives on the other side of the world agree with their choices or not.

[SierraRose]

I was never the kind of peron who would even look at a MM. Regardless of the situation, if a man is taken, he's taken.

 

My exMM was an old best friend who had found me on the internet. I was in an abusive 4 year relationship and living with my b/f at the time. He married for about 12 years. My exMM began emailing me, then phone calls in the span of a year while we were both still involved in our relationships. It was a friendship, rekindling. For the most part I listened to him complain about what he was lacking in his marriage and how miserable he was. I offered the best advise I could. I suggsted counciling, babysitter, mother's helper, whatever. I wanted to see it work for him and his family. He said he knew it was over, he wanted it over. Now in saying all this, he NEVER said he wanted to leave his wife for me. It was platonic, and we neve spoke about "us" as a couple. As far as I was concerned, we were 2 old friends giving each other advice.

I eventually threw out my ex b/f and was living alone with my son. I was definately not mentally healthy at the time and had suffered greatly because of the abusive relationship.

Well, once it was over with my ex b/f, I was wounded, hurt..a mess basically. In comes the "Knight in Shining Armour"--NOW it starts into an EA. Telling me how he has always loved me, so on and so forth. I was th e one he should have married, I should be the one reaping the benefits of his success, yadda, yadda...I took it hook, line and sinker. I took it because that is what I needed to hear at the time. He drove 1200 miles to see me. We started the PA.

Bottom line is he came, he stirred up my life, made many empty promises---even to go so far as to promise me my own flower shop one day. Of course I feel head over heals. I fell for a man who I completely trusted.

About 3 months into it, he confessed it all to his wife and cut me off completely. I dont know if they are still married, I am assuming so. I do know when he told her she beat the sh*t out of him. She hit him so hard, her wrist was broken in several places and needed to be surgically repaired.

Me? It was a horrendous emotioanl road, one that I will never travel again. I swore off dating for over a year and a half. I got myself into counceling and am now healthier than I have ever been in my entire life.

 

MM, committed men for me are off limits. It is not healthy no matter how you look at it. Fool me once, shame on you-Fool me twice, shame on me.

[RedDevil66]

Not all OWs are broken, or trying to make up for their own "inadequacies". Some are choosing to live life on their own terms - whether some conservatives on the other side of the world agree with their choices or not.

 

Yes, all cheaters are broken and if they are not, they simply missing a sensitivity chip to pain.

Anyone who decides to step into the toxic world of affairs is not well/happy

[OWoman]

Anyone who decides to step into the toxic world of affairs is not well/happy

 

Speak for yourself, sweetheart!

 

Unless you have some truly warped (and out of synch with that accepted by professional psychologists) definition of well, or happy, you'd be completely wrong in my case.

 

Your calling the sky green doesn't make it so.

[jennie-jennie]

Yes, all cheaters are broken and if they are not, they simply missing a sensitivity chip to pain.

Anyone who decides to step into the toxic world of affairs is not well/happy

 

If all it was about was "a sensitivity chip to pain", the BS should step back on Dday in favor of the OW. "All is fair in love and war", that is my opinion.

[Fallen Angel]

If all it was about was "a sensitivity chip to pain", the BS should step back on Dday in favor of the OW. "All is fair in love and war", that is my opinion.

 

That is something I have never quite understood about people here. They think that as OW we should always be the ones to step out and give up the person we love.

 

What makes us less worthy in their eyes?

 

How would they respond if everytime a BW posted everyone was telling her that she was standing in the way of true love and should feel the OWs pain and do what is morally right to help heal the emotional damage done to the OW by letting go of her H and initiating NC with him?

 

The truth is it is the MM who generally have sought us out, not we who have targeted and hunted them. Why then does that make us less than worthy of being the one who should fight to keep the person they love? *sigh* I just don't get the rationale behind it.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Fallen Angel

[OWoman]

That is something I have never quite understood about people here. They think that as OW we should always be the ones to step out and give up the person we love.

 

What makes us less worthy in their eyes?

 

How would they respond if everytime a BW posted everyone was telling her that she was standing in the way of true love and should feel the OWs pain and do what is morally right to help heal the emotional damage done to the OW by letting go of her H and initiating NC with him?

 

The truth is it is the MM who generally have sought us out, not we who have targeted and hunted them. Why then does that make us less than worthy of being the one who should fight to keep the person they love? *sigh* I just don't get the rationale behind it.

 

I'd hazard a guess that those posters who make those claims (that the OW should back off) are parties whose interests lie on the side of the status quo - not only BSs, but MPs in general who are invested in upholding the sanctity of M, or younger more conservatively orientated people (mostly girls, still dreaming of a fairytale M to a prince followed by happy-ever-after) whose life plans are centred around some mythical married nirvana.

 

Typically, it's more open minded, more marginal / fringe or more radicalised people (either through mindset or through experience) who do not feel threatened by alternatives which defy the norm, who can feel confident that the world won't shatter if we don't all vote conservative and wear brown and go to church on sundays and live out predictable lives of domestic monotony.

 

I'm quite happy to be one of the vanguard - and being dissed by the mindless conservatives is a badge of honour to me, rather than an insult.

[Dexter Morgan]

Typically, it's more open minded, more marginal / fringe or more radicalised people (either through mindset or through experience) who do not feel threatened by alternatives which defy the norm

 

 

we aren't talking about going against a norm. we are talking about the mindset of people that cause pain and betrayal to other people, and don't care.

[PhoenixRise]

If all it was about was "a sensitivity chip to pain", the BS should step back on Dday in favor of the OW. "All is fair in love and war", that is my opinion.

 

 

 

Some BW do this Jennie Jennie...they step back, step out, pack up, move away, or kick him out and tell him to go get her...by all means he should be with his true love...

 

Only to find that once the path is clear for him to run into the arms of his OW/true love, he runs in the opposite direction.

 

go figure.

[Dexter Morgan]

If all it was about was "a sensitivity chip to pain", the BS should step back on Dday in favor of the OW. "All is fair in love and war", that is my opinion.

 

 

I did just that. I didn't fight at all to keep her and told her to move in with her OM. and gee..wouldn't you know it...he blackened her eye.

 

the reason?........she cheated with him, she can cheat on him:o:confused:

[OWoman]

we aren't talking about going against a norm. we are talking about the mindset of people that cause pain and betrayal to other people, and don't care.

 

As we mature, we learn that it is impossible to please everyone all the time, and that trying to keep everyone happy just leads to problems, like conflict-aversion and a fear of confrontation.

 

Having the highschool hottie fall for you causes pain and anguish to the girl who had her eye on him, but didn't get him. Winning the lottery causes disappointment and unhappiness to the unemployed man who'd hoped it would be his ticket out of debt and despair. Eating meat causes pain and suffering to millions of sentient animals, and taking prescription drugs comes at the cost of the lives of many lab animals. Nothing is pain-free. You can go through life wringing your hands about everything awful, or you can get on with your life and try to make the world a better place by activism, volunteer work and living as carbon-neutral a life as your circumstances permit.

 

I don't feel the need to do guilt or anguish at all about my choice of lovers. I'd rather add more joy and fun to the world by enjoying life!

[Dexter Morgan]

As we mature, we learn that it is impossible to please everyone all the time

 

again, not talking about pleasing people...talking about causing them pain and not caring about anyone else in the process.

[OWoman]

again, not talking about pleasing people...talking about causing them pain and not caring about anyone else in the process.

 

... which I addressed in the rest of my post. Quoting selectively doesn't mean the rest of the post ceases to exist.

[NoIDidn't]

That is something I have never quite understood about people here. They think that as OW we should always be the ones to step out and give up the person we love.

 

What makes us less worthy in their eyes?

 

How would they respond if everytime a BW posted everyone was telling her that she was standing in the way of true love and should feel the OWs pain and do what is morally right to help heal the emotional damage done to the OW by letting go of her H and initiating NC with him?

 

The truth is it is the MM who generally have sought us out, not we who have targeted and hunted them. Why then does that make us less than worthy of being the one who should fight to keep the person they love? *sigh* I just don't get the rationale behind it.

 

Its got nothing to do with "worth". Its got everything to do with the marriage that you are not a part of and have no right expecting the married one to just walk away for something as flimsy as "love".

 

Love isn't enough to run a relationship on. If it were, no one would ever divorce because the love that got them to the altar would still be there.

 

Its very hypocritical, IMO, of anyone to basically make a claim that they have a right to hang on to someone else's spouse (invited by that spouse or not), becauase were the roles reversed and they were married to the person they'd want the OP to get out of the picture as well.

 

This blind adherence to love is exactly what keeps many an OP hanging on in a situation where its clear that the MP has already made a choice but just isn't being honest about it. A choice to keep the OP that is willing to hang on to a promise of a future, and a choice to keep the spouse that is actually getting that future in the meantime.

[jennie-jennie]

Love isn't enough to run a relationship on. If it were, no one would ever divorce because the love that got them to the altar would still be there.

 

Serial monogamy is the answer.