skylarblue Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Question: What are you lacking within yourself that makes it tolerable for you to be involved with a MM? Hopefully, I can explain what I mean. Even though I see a MM, technically, I consider myself the mistress instead of the OW. To me, the mistress has a role, the OW has a position. Being in a different situation than most of the OW on this board, I can relate or understand on some levels and not at all on others. But I think the posted question applies to anyone, past or currently, involved with a MM. What I mean by the question is this... I think most people (statistically it’s said 90%) think A are wrong. I imagine that most OW (myself included) have that same opinion. I wouldn’t want my S/O to lie and cheat on me yet I have no problem about my part in it happening to someone else. So I thought what is it about myself that would make the unacceptable acceptable? Why would I essentially say I don’t mind sharing YOUR partner and I don’t have a high standard on honesty and commitment in YOUR R, but I want it in mine? If I take full responsibility for my own actions and honestly answer the question, I come up with this abbreviated version: I am lacking a lot confidence in situations where I can’t get by on looks, charm, and/or personality. My life has been structured in such a shallow way that things outside of the superficial always leaves me with doubts and reservations about myself and ability, even if I know I am able. I become afraid to take the chance because I fear rejection. So my answer is I’m dating (or date) MM because it makes me feel more worthy about myself and masks my inadequacies.
moaningmyrtle Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Question: What are you lacking within yourself that makes it tolerable for you to be involved with a MM? Hopefully, I can explain what I mean. Even though I see a MM, technically, I consider myself the mistress instead of the OW. To me, the mistress has a role, the OW has a position. Being in a different situation than most of the OW on this board, I can relate or understand on some levels and not at all on others. But I think the posted question applies to anyone, past or currently, involved with a MM. What I mean by the question is this... I think most people (statistically it’s said 90%) think A are wrong. I imagine that most OW (myself included) have that same opinion. I wouldn’t want my S/O to lie and cheat on me yet I have no problem about my part in it happening to someone else. So I thought what is it about myself that would make the unacceptable acceptable? Why would I essentially say I don’t mind sharing YOUR partner and I don’t have a high standard on honesty and commitment in YOUR R, but I want it in mine? If I take full responsibility for my own actions and honestly answer the question, I come up with this abbreviated version: I am lacking a lot confidence in situations where I can’t get by on looks, charm, and/or personality. My life has been structured in such a shallow way that things outside of the superficial always leaves me with doubts and reservations about myself and ability, even if I know I am able. I become afraid to take the chance because I fear rejection. So my answer is I’m dating (or date) MM because it makes me feel more worthy about myself and masks my inadequacies. Sky, To me this looks like another variation on the "why" question that so many BW would really like to know the answer to, and so many OW feel uncomfortable with. The fact that you have assumed an answer in the question (that there is something lacking in OW) will like as not mean you will probably get a few less than polite answers. I've never been an OW so I can't answer, but having seen a few variations on this topic before, the answers will like as not fall in the following categories (ignoring any rude responses). 1. I didn't know he was married and by the time I did it was too late. 2. His BW is not my responsibility, she's his responsibility, he made the vows, he broke them, he invited me into his life. 3. We couldn't help it - we fell in love, it was true love. 4. His wife is a good mother but he loves me more than he loves her, and she doesn't like sex much. All other things being equal we would be together but he has to stay because of his kids with whom he cannot live without. 5. She is a horrible wife and he must stay with her to protect the kids from her and to give them a good life. He cannot take the risk that she would get custody (because of the preference courts give to mothers). 6. He is a terrible liar, he has betrayed both of us and I now realise it. She is welcome to him. I feel sorry for her. I think you will be one of the few that will attribute it almost solely to inadequacies within yourself. Myrtle PS I have to say I still don't know the answer to this question in relation to my H and his OW - I don't think I ever will.
someonesangel Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Sky, To me this looks like another variation on the "why" question that so many BW would really like to know the answer to, and so many OW feel uncomfortable with. The fact that you have assumed an answer in the question (that there is something lacking in OW) will like as not mean you will probably get a few less than polite answers. I've never been an OW so I can't answer, but having seen a few variations on this topic before, the answers will like as not fall in the following categories (ignoring any rude responses). 1. I didn't know he was married and by the time I did it was too late. 2. His BW is not my responsibility, she's his responsibility, he made the vows, he broke them, he invited me into his life. 3. We couldn't help it - we fell in love, it was true love. 4. His wife is a good mother but he loves me more than he loves her, and she doesn't like sex much. All other things being equal we would be together but he has to stay because of his kids with whom he cannot live without. 5. She is a horrible wife and he must stay with her to protect the kids from her and to give them a good life. He cannot take the risk that she would get custody (because of the preference courts give to mothers). 6. He is a terrible liar, he has betrayed both of us and I now realise it. She is welcome to him. I feel sorry for her. I think you will be one of the few that will attribute it almost solely to inadequacies within yourself. Myrtle PS I have to say I still don't know the answer to this question in relation to my H and his OW - I don't think I ever will. Myrtle I have heard others suggest you seem very closed minded when it comes to any OW and I must admit, after reading several of your posts and seeing this one, I agree. What would you like us to say? I guess that is perhaps the question really, or what do you NEED us to say? I felt guilt, as did he - regardless of what you may think. We did fall in love - again just reality which made it much harder to be selfless in letting each other go. But as you "list" the normal responses - OW are going to list the typical or stereotype back at you. So posts like this imo, are useless and may be the reason why most don't really behave in am empathic manner in regards to your posts in particular. While you dispute that OW will excuse the MM or MW "choice" - every point you made can be turned around and directed to the BS. Many very honest OW here can attest that 1. Many MM continue affairs while in MC, "recovery" and even while living happily "saving the marriage". 2. SOMETIMES MM chooses to stay because of the children, life and past and a responsibility to that and not because they would not choose the OW in a one on one decision ( many MM are even brave enough to admit that right here on this and other similar forums) 3. Sometimes we DO fall in love. Play with fire, and you get burnt - and yes it is possible that the WS is in love with the AP. I can tell you that they WONT tell you, even if you think they will. 4. Many OW feel guilt and DO believe the BS is a good person, and many also think the WS loves the BS. Not all believe it is all about them. 5. In my experience, very few long term affair OW believe the wife is terrible, why continue on that. I believe there are many threads stating exactly the opposite. Why can't you believe that? And more important if the WS leaves the BS for the OW - the last is the exact statement we hear " She can have him". So to say that is used by the OW is closed minded imo, that is USED as a confidence builder for either party when faced with "losing" someone to someone else. Going in circles does not make your reality more real. As for my "answer" to the original question. We did fall in love and we also paid the price for that. Not only within ourselves but we also face the pain we caused his W everyday. No one is proud believe it or not and if only we could turn back time - but we can't. Was I broken, sure no one is perfect and the relationship gave me things I needed to look at, but I also know I had an enoromous ability to love someone as they were, with no real expectations and that while I may have choosen the wrong situation to experience that in, is truly priceless. I hope both me and XMM have learned tolerance, imperfection, forgiveness (ourselves) and a valuable lesson and reminder that what can begin as innocent controlled fun can turn into emotions regardless of how "in control" you think you are.
moaningmyrtle Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Myrtle I have heard others suggest you seem very closed minded when it comes to any OW and I must admit, after reading several of your posts and seeing this one, I agree. Why do you feel the need to turn this into an attack on me I wonder? What would you like us to say? I guess that is perhaps the question really, or what do you NEED us to say? I am not the OP so I don't need any particular replies. I'm sure the OP would probably like you to answer her question. I felt guilt, as did he - regardless of what you may think. We did fall in love - again just reality which made it much harder to be selfless in letting each other go. But as you "list" the normal responses - OW are going to list the typical or stereotype back at you. So posts like this imo, are useless and may be the reason why most don't really behave in am empathic manner in regards to your posts in particular. As I didn't ask the question I expect most OW would respond to her rather than me. While you dispute that OW will excuse the MM or MW "choice" - every point you made can be turned around and directed to the BS. Many very honest OW here can attest that It is entirely up to you if you want to turn it around and direct it back to "the BS" (I'm not sure which BS you mean - presumably the one you helped betray) - after all you are answering the OPs question from your perspective so if you blame her then that's your answer isn't it? 1. Many MM continue affairs while in MC, "recovery" and even while living happily "saving the marriage". 2. SOMETIMES MM chooses to stay because of the children, life and past and a responsibility to that and not because they would not choose the OW in a one on one decision ( many MM are even brave enough to admit that right here on this and other similar forums) 3. Sometimes we DO fall in love. Play with fire, and you get burnt - and yes it is possible that the WS is in love with the AP. I can tell you that they WONT tell you, even if you think they will. 4. Many OW feel guilt and DO believe the BS is a good person, and many also think the WS loves the BS. Not all believe it is all about them. 5. In my experience, very few long term affair OW believe the wife is terrible, why continue on that. I believe there are many threads stating exactly the opposite. Why can't you believe that? And more important if the WS leaves the BS for the OW - the last is the exact statement we hear " She can have him". So to say that is used by the OW is closed minded imo, that is USED as a confidence builder for either party when faced with "losing" someone to someone else. Going in circles does not make your reality more real. You sound awfully like someone who recently left in a fit of pique - but you can't be, as she was fairly clear she wasn't coming back. As for my "answer" to the original question. We did fall in love and we also paid the price for that. Not only within ourselves but we also face the pain we caused his W everyday. No one is proud believe it or not and if only we could turn back time - but we can't. Was I broken, sure no one is perfect and the relationship gave me things I needed to look at, but I also know I had an enoromous ability to love someone as they were, with no real expectations and that while I may have choosen the wrong situation to experience that in, is truly priceless. I hope both me and XMM have learned tolerance, imperfection, forgiveness (ourselves) and a valuable lesson and reminder that what can begin as innocent controlled fun can turn into emotions regardless of how "in control" you think you are. Glad you answered the question at last - why the attack on my answer though? - I have never directed anything quite so personal at you.
MizFit Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 I'm lacking nothing that made me become an ow. I'd been separated from my h for about 2 years and had been in several relationships since. I met my mm and we were attracted and enjoyed the sex and time together. It started as something that would be temporary as he was clear he didn't want to leave his wife. Since then we've had quite a few periods of time together and its turned into an emotionally charged situation. He is still clear he isn't going to leave and I still date, looking for someone to spend my life with. If he were to leave I'd definitely look into a future with him. I feel no guilt about what i'm doing. In this situation mm has discussed the things that are lacking in his marriage. He has done what he can do to bring her around to addressing the issues and she isn't. She knows what he is lacking and is making a choice to allow that void in the marriage...that is a choice she is making and he is reacting to that. Years when I was a bs I did the same. I knew of something lacking in my marriage and decided to ignore it...my h chose to find someone to fill the void. It would be best if both of them left the marriages first, but they didn't. I never blamed the ow when I was the bs and I feel no guilt for the bs now that i'm an ow. I know the first comment will be that my mm is lying about things...there are too many common friends and such that have confirmed things for me not to believe them all. I'm in because he was good fun and we enjoyed each other...it's continued because the emotion grew...I have no idea how things will end, but I hold no guilt and won't regret it as far as the m or bs are concerned.
dn121 Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Question: What are you lacking within yourself that makes it tolerable for you to be involved with a MM? Good question, and I sure wish I knew the answer. I know I have abandonment issues (mother died when I was a child), trust issues (ex-husband was a diagnosed sex addict) and self-esteem issues. I know all this about myself. If you had told me six years ago that I would be involved with a MM I would have laughed in your face. Yet, here I am....and still am. I fell in love with a friend, and crossed a line. Can't seem to step back over the line. I guess I am lacking something...maybe a backbone? I've tried to end it many times, and succeeded for awhile...but he is always the one who manages to pull me back in, as hard as I try to cut contact. I guess I don't try hard enough.
Spark1111 Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 As a fBW, I can only speak to my situation. The marriage falls into automatic pilot; we both stop trying or caring enough to make it special, exciting, or important. Add a death in the family, job stress or a lingering health issue and the relationship weakens. Some of the loneliest times in my life have been sitting across from a man I loved dearly, and he was as distant as the moon. Couldn't reach him, no matter what I tried. He had checked out, way before he crashed into her. I think all three people in the triangle are characterized best by the word vulnerable. I feel sorry for all of us. Three in a triangle, three get hurt! Had the right situation, right chemistry, right man, come along for me at that time in our marriage, I believe I, too, could have been susceptible to an affair. Do not want to believe that about myself, but yes, could have. She was a single mom, raising a difficult child, after an ongoing acrimonious divorce. She too, was vulnerable. But here remains the part that continues to hurt the most: All the lies and deceptions it took BOTH OF THEM to keep it secret and ongoing. To me, they did not own their choices. I'm a grown up. Tell me you have developed feelings for someone else. Let's separate, go to counseling, see if we have a marriage worth salvaging while you explore your feelings for someone else, and allow me to do the same! The secretiveness is highly manipulating to both the BS, so that they do not date others and blindly continue to keep the family life intact, and to the OM/OW, who often get strung along for years as they continue to hope for a full-time future with the MP. And here, for me, lies the residual anger for the other woman, as misplaced as it might be: You participated in the deception of another. So, I have to assume you were/are being lied to? spun to? also. So, I think it takes three very vulnerable and needy people to sustain the triangle dynamic, IMHO.
GreenEyedLady Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Myrtle I have heard others suggest you seem very closed minded when it comes to any OW and I must admit, after reading several of your posts and seeing this one, I agree. What would you like us to say? I guess that is perhaps the question really, or what do you NEED us to say? I felt guilt, as did he - regardless of what you may think. We did fall in love - again just reality which made it much harder to be selfless in letting each other go. But as you "list" the normal responses - OW are going to list the typical or stereotype back at you. So posts like this imo, are useless and may be the reason why most don't really behave in am empathic manner in regards to your posts in particular. While you dispute that OW will excuse the MM or MW "choice" - every point you made can be turned around and directed to the BS. Many very honest OW here can attest that 1. Many MM continue affairs while in MC, "recovery" and even while living happily "saving the marriage". 2. SOMETIMES MM chooses to stay because of the children, life and past and a responsibility to that and not because they would not choose the OW in a one on one decision ( many MM are even brave enough to admit that right here on this and other similar forums) 3. Sometimes we DO fall in love. Play with fire, and you get burnt - and yes it is possible that the WS is in love with the AP. I can tell you that they WONT tell you, even if you think they will. 4. Many OW feel guilt and DO believe the BS is a good person, and many also think the WS loves the BS. Not all believe it is all about them. 5. In my experience, very few long term affair OW believe the wife is terrible, why continue on that. I believe there are many threads stating exactly the opposite. Why can't you believe that? And more important if the WS leaves the BS for the OW - the last is the exact statement we hear " She can have him". So to say that is used by the OW is closed minded imo, that is USED as a confidence builder for either party when faced with "losing" someone to someone else. Going in circles does not make your reality more real. As for my "answer" to the original question. We did fall in love and we also paid the price for that. Not only within ourselves but we also face the pain we caused his W everyday. No one is proud believe it or not and if only we could turn back time - but we can't. Was I broken, sure no one is perfect and the relationship gave me things I needed to look at, but I also know I had an enoromous ability to love someone as they were, with no real expectations and that while I may have choosen the wrong situation to experience that in, is truly priceless. I hope both me and XMM have learned tolerance, imperfection, forgiveness (ourselves) and a valuable lesson and reminder that what can begin as innocent controlled fun can turn into emotions regardless of how "in control" you think you are. What a great post!
OpenBook Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Spark, that was the most honest, straight-shooting and valuable post I've seen here in a long time. My hat's off to you. It takes a tremendous amount of emotional intelligence and intestinal fortitude to face the truth like that. Most people (including me) rarely if ever achieve that kind of clarity. As a fBW, I can only speak to my situation. The marriage falls into automatic pilot; we both stop trying or caring enough to make it special, exciting, or important. Add a death in the family, job stress or a lingering health issue and the relationship weakens. Some of the loneliest times in my life have been sitting across from a man I loved dearly, and he was as distant as the moon. Couldn't reach him, no matter what I tried. He had checked out, way before he crashed into her. I think all three people in the triangle are characterized best by the word vulnerable. I feel sorry for all of us. Three in a triangle, three get hurt! Had the right situation, right chemistry, right man, come along for me at that time in our marriage, I believe I, too, could have been susceptible to an affair. Do not want to believe that about myself, but yes, could have. She was a single mom, raising a difficult child, after an ongoing acrimonious divorce. She too, was vulnerable. But here remains the part that continues to hurt the most: All the lies and deceptions it took BOTH OF THEM to keep it secret and ongoing. To me, they did not own their choices. I'm a grown up. Tell me you have developed feelings for someone else. Let's separate, go to counseling, see if we have a marriage worth salvaging while you explore your feelings for someone else, and allow me to do the same! The secretiveness is highly manipulating to both the BS, so that they do not date others and blindly continue to keep the family life intact, and to the OM/OW, who often get strung along for years as they continue to hope for a full-time future with the MP. And here, for me, lies the residual anger for the other woman, as misplaced as it might be: You participated in the deception of another. So, I have to assume you were/are being lied to? spun to? also. So, I think it takes three very vulnerable and needy people to sustain the triangle dynamic, IMHO.
whichwayisup Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 My life has been structured in such a shallow way that things outside of the superficial always leaves me with doubts and reservations about myself and ability, even if I know I am able. I become afraid to take the chance because I fear rejection. So my answer is I’m dating (or date) MM because it makes me feel more worthy about myself and masks my inadequacies. Don't you want a man who can give you everything? It's kind of ironic you've put yourself in this situation, the affair, because in the long run YOU will be deeply hurt. By staying and being the OW, you've lined yourself up to be second fiddle. You won't ever come first with your MM. I really hope one day you get the strength to seek some counselling, fix 'you' and become stronger, more self confident. Work on your issues, insecurities so you can find love with someone who can give you the whole wide world..Not just stolen moments on his time frame. You DO deserve better and more! But, sadly it seems you don't see that, you feel you deserve table scraps.
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 I was OW many times. What was I lacking each time? Empathy. I literally had no interest in whether or not someone else would have been hurt by my participation in the affairs.
Spark1111 Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Open Book, thank you! Lucrezia...your post smacks of incredible honesty. In a misguided attempt to heal the acrimony that often exists on these boards, I once posted a thread about imagining the discovery of ANOTHER OW/OM while your AP is expressing their undyling love for you, the OW/OM. Most said they would be devastated, rageful, and end it immediately with the two (three?) timing SOB, and for one split second, before the thread deteriorated into argument, I knew we all have more in common they we want to admit. So, why is the admission so difficult? Because we are both lied to and spun out of vulnerability and fear of not having our needs met, IMHO. The only way secret triangles can survive, or BSs reconcile, is to embrace the "us against" him or her scenario. Hence, the ongoing animosity. It seems to be a necessary component.
wheelwright Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Love is the main reason. I have a childish way of thinking that love is more important than other things. And the BW in my situation sat down and told me she had never loved her H. She said it was just right place right time. (She was not a friend but I met her a few times socially before anything happened). I never told him this. It would have hurt him too much. I wouldn't have crossed the line with him if she hadn't told me this. Now I am not sure if it was true. She has accepted him back after DDay. But I believed it at the time.
RedDevil66 Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 When I was an OW, 9 yrs ago, I was lacking maturity, self esteem, self respect, self love, spirituality and attention from my partner of 11 yrs. To live in any world of deciet, denial and pain one has to be lacking the true sense of soul.
LucreziaBorgia Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 I can honestly say I've learned from my past, and have no desire at all to do that sort of thing again. It is a hard lesson to learn.
Spark1111 Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 Love is the main reason. I have a childish way of thinking that love is more important than other things. And the BW in my situation sat down and told me she had never loved her H. She said it was just right place right time. (She was not a friend but I met her a few times socially before anything happened). I never told him this. It would have hurt him too much. I wouldn't have crossed the line with him if she hadn't told me this. Now I am not sure if it was true. She has accepted him back after DDay. But I believed it at the time. Wheelwright, I so loved my husband but we had grown distant before his affair for a variety of reasons. I just gave up while I tried to get three children raised with a mostly absentee partner. I might have said the same thing at the time, given how neglected I felt. It would have been true for the time right before he crashed into her, but not true for the entire 25 years. I admire that you never told him. I never would tell her that he was trawling for a new OW at the time of DDay and cell phone bill interception, so great was his confusion and unhappiness WITH HIMSELF. It would have crushed her. But here's a thought: Why do we seek to spare the feelings of others, while we then get to spin with our own emotions in the wake of their self-destruction??? I didn't think love was suppose to hurt this much. I always thought true love builds you up and makes you a better, not lesser person. I am still working on this.
Author skylarblue Posted October 25, 2009 Author Posted October 25, 2009 Originally Posted by moaningmyrtle To me this looks like another variation on the "why" question that so many BW would really like to know the answer to, and so many OW feel uncomfortable with. The fact that you have assumed an answer in the question (that there is something lacking in OW)… I have seen and answered questions as to “why” and pretty much responded as you’ve seen. Basically, I said “it’s not my marriage, I don’t care, and I like it.” But those questions seemed to insinuate to some outer circumstance (i.e. “what was it about him that made you…”) or emotion (i.e. “I fell in love with him”). I’m not asking “why” in that way, but I do make a few assumptions or conditions in asking the question. 1) You believe A are wrong. 2) You would have a problem if you were the BS. 3)You take responsibility. This is said with my belief that no one or thing (without force) causes you to make the decisions you make. Something may influence your decision, but nothing forces you to make a certain choice. Therefore, the emphasis on “what are you lacking” or “what is it within yourself” disregarding the external influence of the MM. 4) You are honest with yourself and thoughts. Originally Posted by someonesangeL I have heard others suggest you seem very closed minded when it comes to any OW and I must admit, after reading several of your posts and seeing this one, I agree. What would you like us to say? I guess that is perhaps the question really, or what do you NEED us to say? Originally Posted by moaningmyrtle why the attack on my answer though? MEOW!! I don’t know any of your post moaningmyrtle, what you’re like or have said, but I didn’t take any offense in your response to my post. I actually feel kinda sorry that you were reacted to in that way because I didn’t feel you were coming at me negatively. Sorry.
Fallen Angel Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Sky, To me this looks like another variation on the "why" question that so many BW would really like to know the answer to, and so many OW feel uncomfortable with. The fact that you have assumed an answer in the question (that there is something lacking in OW) will like as not mean you will probably get a few less than polite answers. I've never been an OW so I can't answer, but having seen a few variations on this topic before, the answers will like as not fall in the following categories (ignoring any rude responses). 1. I didn't know he was married and by the time I did it was too late. 2. His BW is not my responsibility, she's his responsibility, he made the vows, he broke them, he invited me into his life. 3. We couldn't help it - we fell in love, it was true love. 4. His wife is a good mother but he loves me more than he loves her, and she doesn't like sex much. All other things being equal we would be together but he has to stay because of his kids with whom he cannot live without. 5. She is a horrible wife and he must stay with her to protect the kids from her and to give them a good life. He cannot take the risk that she would get custody (because of the preference courts give to mothers). 6. He is a terrible liar, he has betrayed both of us and I now realise it. She is welcome to him. I feel sorry for her. I think you will be one of the few that will attribute it almost solely to inadequacies within yourself. Myrtle PS I have to say I still don't know the answer to this question in relation to my H and his OW - I don't think I ever will. Myrtle, You know I always try to be fair and kind, so please take this in the tone in which it is intended. When I read your post here, I felt that you were trying to "jab" at OWs. You took what are for some of us VALID responses to this question and made them ( IN MY OPINION) seem trite and inconsequential. And the line I bolded was even more hurtful to ME personally. I know I have issues, but to be told I am inadequate.... that seems a harsh judgement call to make. I know you did not call me out personally, and in all fairness, I don't think you ever would, but when reading your generalization of OWs and our possible responses, it FELT personal to me. *sigh* Anyway, just wanted to explain how someone could be made to feel they have to be defensive in response to that.... just my opinion...
GreenEyedLady Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 ?? only if you like incoherent ramblings that appear to have a hidden agenda. Oh yeah, that's exactly why it's so great! Apparently you have the exact mindset of the poster. The reason that it's such a great post is because it blatantly tells it like it is-THAT BS'S REALLY DON'T WANT TO KNOW, BECAUSE THEY'VE ALREADY DECIDED THE MOTIVATION OF THE OW. So keep your blinders on and keep posting the drivel that you are. The reason you'll never figure it out is because you're not open to other answers and you've already decided what someone else thinks. SAYONARA! GEL
moaningmyrtle Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Myrtle, You know I always try to be fair and kind, so please take this in the tone in which it is intended. When I read your post here, I felt that you were trying to "jab" at OWs. You took what are for some of us VALID responses to this question and made them ( IN MY OPINION) seem trite and inconsequential. And the line I bolded was even more hurtful to ME personally. I know I have issues, but to be told I am inadequate.... that seems a harsh judgement call to make. I know you did not call me out personally, and in all fairness, I don't think you ever would, but when reading your generalization of OWs and our possible responses, it FELT personal to me. *sigh* Anyway, just wanted to explain how someone could be made to feel they have to be defensive in response to that.... just my opinion... I have been a bit surprised that anyone took what I said personally or to be a jab at OW generally. But nevertheless I am sorry that at least some did because it detracted from my real message. Which is that coming from the position of a BW - one in a lot of pain I might add; none of the reasons usually given seem to warrant what I went through. I have come to realise that I may never "get" why I and my children and my H's family had to go through so much agony - including feeling at one stage that I would prefer to be dead; because of the A. This is just a personal feeling of mine I fully accept that. As for me suggesting you or anybody was inadequate I didn't think I did although I now think I should have used a different word. It was implicit in the OPs question and I was genuinely surprised that she asked that bit. As a BW I appreciate the ownership by any OW of flaws within herself. None of us is perfect and certainly not me. Whatever happens I do not usually make unprovoked attacks on people in this forum so I was surprised that I was on the receiving end of one in this case. Just because I may post in a relatively unemotional manner does not mean I don't have feelings. Regards Myrtle
GreenEyedLady Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Phew - touched a sore spot did I? Who is "the poster" that you speak of: skylarblu or someonesangel? No I do not have the mindset of either of them. Why the generalized rant against all betrayed spouses? Did someone imply you were a bully the other day? Yeah, you wish... If you can't figure it out, perhaps you are the less coherent one. I don't rant, I simply tell it like it is. Get banned and come back under another username??! GEL
tami-chan Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Sky, To me this looks like another variation on the "why" question that so many BW would really like to know the answer to, and so many OW feel uncomfortable with. The fact that you have assumed an answer in the question (that there is something lacking in OW) will like as not mean you will probably get a few less than polite answers. I've never been an OW so I can't answer, but having seen a few variations on this topic before, the answers will like as not fall in the following categories (ignoring any rude responses). 1. I didn't know he was married and by the time I did it was too late. 2. His BW is not my responsibility, she's his responsibility, he made the vows, he broke them, he invited me into his life. 3. We couldn't help it - we fell in love, it was true love. 4. His wife is a good mother but he loves me more than he loves her, and she doesn't like sex much. All other things being equal we would be together but he has to stay because of his kids with whom he cannot live without. 5. She is a horrible wife and he must stay with her to protect the kids from her and to give them a good life. He cannot take the risk that she would get custody (because of the preference courts give to mothers). 6. He is a terrible liar, he has betrayed both of us and I now realise it. She is welcome to him. I feel sorry for her. I think you will be one of the few that will attribute it almost solely to inadequacies within yourself. Myrtle PS I have to say I still don't know the answer to this question in relation to my H and his OW - I don't think I ever will. Well,the above made me think about these two things: 1) the post is addressed specifically to the OW-I know, i know it IS a public forum , but given that you have never been an OW, the credibility of your answer is suspect. Unless of course, you are a trained specialist and studied the behavior patterns and psychological make-up of OWs? 2) Don't most BSs assume there is something fundamentally lacking in OWs/OMs (be it morals, or psychological wholeness (if you may) that is why they are in adulterous relationships? just wondering...
moaningmyrtle Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Well,the above made me think about these two things: 1) the post is addressed specifically to the OW-I know, i know it IS a public forum , but given that you have never been an OW, the credibility of your answer is suspect. Unless of course, you are a trained specialist and studied the behavior patterns and psychological make-up of OWs? No not a trained specialist. As for the credibility of my post I think the majority of responses have in fact fallen within the categories I listed; with some overlap between them. I was merely saying what I expected to be the answers and I was right - I think. 2) Don't most BSs assume there is something fundamentally lacking in OWs/OMs (be it morals, or psychological wholeness (if you may) that is why they are in adulterous relationships? I'm not quite sure what most BSs assume - it certainly isn't my assumption. just wondering... I'm not really sure why my attempt to pre-empt some of the answers has generated quite so much fuss. I wasn't even intending to be disrespectful but more trying to say that as a BS I may never understand - quite possibly because of something lacking in me rather than any lack of moral fibre or wholeness or whatever in OW generally {note that I am not saying this is my opinion just echoing your words}. Myrtle
someonesangel Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) I think all three people in the triangle are characterized best by the word vulnerable. I feel sorry for all of us. Three in a triangle, three get hurt! That is the true reality. ALL are hurt, all are "broken" and all pay the price. Myrtle I didn't quote you, but I will try to address most of your questions. First you immediately responded to a post asking for OW opinions assuming you could in a "nutshell" give an overview. I personally found it to be the normal, they will say " this" as usual. My question to you was simple. What do you WANT or NEED us to say. You did not in your original post suggest you may be broken as you did in one of your last posts. You suggested that we will "excuse" it away or at least that is how I read it. I directed my post at you, because I was responding to your post. I was not rude, however again that is the automatic response when posed with a differing viewpoint. I asked a question. What can any of us possibly tell you that will make you feel better? That I felt guilt - I did That I wish I would have done something differently - That too That I even had a remote idea how painful this would be - No clue going into it. What do you want to know? What I am saying is, many long term affair OW are not going to give you the answers you seek. For those that were in a full blown EA and PA you are not going to like the answers. Did we love each other - YES and we still do Would we have ended without a DDay - No we would not have Have we continued to talk or carry on an affair - MANY have proven they have and continue while WS is in MC or trying to save the marriage. I simply don't know what you want and it was a question as well as a view that all of your 6 points could easily and factually be turned around, but you don't want to hear that. In a nutshell, if you seek answers that is great but understand that it is very possible the OW here without any reason to lie are being honest with those answers and are not sugarcoating them. Edited October 26, 2009 by someonesangel
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