chocolate.strawbery Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Miss Hollywood, What they're saying but not saying, is that men ultimately want sex if they're going to make the effort to go out on a "non-date" with you. They are not interested in just friendship with a woman. WTF? I would much rather have an awesome girl friend then a guy friend. Girl friends (not girlfriends) are rare and hard to come by. And it sounds to me that you (MissHollywood) simply get along better with guys then you do girls. So keep trying. Eventually you will meet a very open and confindent guy that can accept or mabye even wants to just be friends. And as soon as you get good in his books, he most def will have plenty of friends to introduce you too. It's never easy to find good friend material, that's what makes it so special.
Trimmer Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 WTF? I would much rather have an awesome girl friend then a guy friend. Girl friends (not girlfriends) are rare and hard to come by. And it sounds to me that you (MissHollywood) simply get along better with guys then you do girls. So keep trying. Eventually you will meet a very open and confindent guy that can accept or mabye even wants to just be friends. And as soon as you get good in his books, he most def will have plenty of friends to introduce you too. It's never easy to find good friend material, that's what makes it so special. I don't necessarily disagree, however, true "friendships" between men and women are more likely to evolve via some mechanism other than going out one-on-one. Friends from photography club, or beach volleyball, or work or something like that, often based around a group activity that provides some "cover" for a friendship to develop safely. Asking someone out is just such a loaded situation... Again, not that it's impossible, but the situation is fraught with the possibility of misunderstanding, miscommunication, etc. Something just occurred to me - once you find that unique, open, confident guy who is so special... You're gonna eventually want to date him! HA!
Author MissHollywood Posted October 26, 2009 Author Posted October 26, 2009 I think the part about it being easier asking guy friends from before out for a non-date than a completely new face is quite true. I find no problems asking long-term guy friends out without any misunderstandings. Men (the ones I don't know as long-term friends), let me ask you this. If I ask you out for coffee/lunch/dinner, would you would think it's a date?
phineas Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Men (the ones I don't know as long-term friends), let me ask you this. If I ask you out for coffee/lunch/dinner, would you would think it's a date? depends, how hot are you? But in all seriousness & honesty, I would think you were digging me but I would not assume you wanted to date me. I would only meet you out if I had nothing better to do & I would never change plans for you if I didn't sense romantic interest. Of course, i'm at a point in my life where a woman has to convince me she'd be more fun to spend time with over my powertools.
Author MissHollywood Posted October 26, 2009 Author Posted October 26, 2009 depends, how hot are you? But in all seriousness & honesty, I would think you were digging me but I would not assume you wanted to date me. I would only meet you out if I had nothing better to do & I would never change plans for you if I didn't sense romantic interest. Of course, i'm at a point in my life where a woman has to convince me she'd be more fun to spend time with over my powertools. That's interesting. I never thought asking someone out that way would be considered digging. How would a woman ask to make you think she wants to date you?
phineas Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 That's interesting. I never thought asking someone out that way would be considered digging. How would a woman ask to make you think she wants to date you? She'd have to literally spell it out for me. Tell me she wants to go out on a date. Otherwise once i'm with them they need to do something to show me their interested. I look at it this way, if you as woman seek my company but are not trying to use me as an emotional tampon (whoever coinded that on LS it's pure gold) or add me to your army of helper monkeys then I can only assume you are sizing me up to see if i'm possible dateing material. but, if you don't make a move i'll assume you arn't interested & if you can hold a conversation & are fun to hang out with then I guess i've made a friend. Because hey, you might have some friends of your own that are single.
Johnny M Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Thanks for all your replies. From them, I think there's no way but to explain outright that I'm not looking to date. But is asking someone out always understood as a date? It can't be anything else? If that other is a person of the opposite gender who is not a good friend then no, it can't be understood as anything else...
Trimmer Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Men (the ones I don't know as long-term friends), let me ask you this. If I ask you out for coffee/lunch/dinner, would you would think it's a date? Well, there's not really such a bright line that separates a date from a "first coffee, lunch, dinner, etc." Dating is a test - could we be interesting together? You start small and build up, and you don't get your hopes up too much for someone until you've tried it out a couple times. So, unless otherwise stated, I would assume, if a woman asked me 'out', that she was at least willing to consider being interested in my as a potential date, partner, etc. Not that she IS interested, or that it's a sure thing, but that she's willing to take that first step, to open the door to the possibility. So if we went out on that basis, and then later she tells me she just wants to be friends, I would assume that after trying that first step, she decided she wasn't that interested and was backing off. So that's why I don't think you will be successful trying to "snag" someone with an unstated "non-date" and then try to convert him to friendship-only later - it will be felt as a rejection of what he was probably considering, and a possibly humiliating consolation prize. As a matter of fact, that may be why so many are advising that it will be a tough sell even from the start: given what a man usually thinks of "goint out", you're just moving the rejection right up front, which at least is more honest, but you will probably shrink your candidate pool greatly. Yes, you may find that unique, special, confident man, but like I said earlier, with such a special guy, wouldn't it be ironic if you eventually found yourself disappointed that you become interested in more, but he just wanted to "be friends..."
boogieboy Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 I think the part about it being easier asking guy friends from before out for a non-date than a completely new face is quite true. I find no problems asking long-term guy friends out without any misunderstandings. Men (the ones I don't know as long-term friends), let me ask you this. If I ask you out for coffee/lunch/dinner, would you would think it's a date? Since im on the prowl right now,if you asked me out at all, I would assume its a date. If it wasnt, I wouldnt go. So I would appreciate it if you said straight up that you werent interested in me romantically.
phineas Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Yes, you may find that unique, special, confident man, but like I said earlier, with such a special guy, wouldn't it be ironic if you eventually found yourself disappointed that you become interested in more, but he just wanted to "be friends..." Or, he got snatched up by another woman.
Trimmer Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Or, he got snatched up by another woman. All the makings of a Jane Austen novel...
MalachiX Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Men (the ones I don't know as long-term friends), let me ask you this. If I ask you out for coffee/lunch/dinner, would you would think it's a date? I would and I think most guys would too. Our society is still set up so that men tend to have to be the agressors. We're supposed to have to make the first move and wait for the woman to approve. I've lost track of the women who have told me, "I was waiting forever for you to ask me out and kept trying to drop hints." I always felt, "then why didn't you just ask me out?" but they always argue that such things don't feel right. The result of this atmosphere is that, if a woman DOES ask you out, it's hard for a guy not to think that she's VERY interested. At least, with my circle of peeps, I can't imagine having a relative stranger ask you out for a one-on-one dinner without it feeling like a date (unless she's already in a serious relationship or there's a big age difference). If you want a guy just to be friends then don't make it one on one. If it's a group activity and you have at least one other friend there, then he won't expect it to be romantic in nature and then, if you guys become actual friends, then a non-date could be one on one. It just takes time. Maybe a weird way of saying it is that the same way a woman has to learn to trust a man before she sleeps with him, a man has to learn to trust a woman if sex and romance isn't part of the equation.
carhill Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Decades of conditioning from never meeting a truly single woman color my thoughts to this day. Echoes of husbands and boyfriends who are not reflected in the demeanor and/or ring finger of the lady bring me pause. Everyone's personality is different. Truly, it is that adage of 'caring less' which should operate, but the manifestation of that imperative conflicts with basic personality traits. If the OP asked me out on a non-date, I'd assume she was involved and would be a bit uncomfortable about such an interaction with a H/BF in the background, even if the interaction were purely platonic/non-sexual. Again, this from experience of women lying about their status and intentions. Bad habit (presumption), but a hard one to break. Still more work to do OP, it doesn't hurt to try. Perhaps your request will fall upon the right man for this time and you will enjoy yourselves.....
Author MissHollywood Posted October 27, 2009 Author Posted October 27, 2009 Is the reverse true? That when a man asks a woman out, it's assumed that the man is asking her out on a date, no matter how he says it?
MalachiX Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 Is the reverse true? That when a man asks a woman out, it's assumed that the man is asking her out on a date, no matter how he says it? U tell us. That said, I don't think I've ever asked out a woman who I wasn't already friends with on a one-on-one encounter unless I meant it to be a date.
Sith Apprentice Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 I'm sure there are plenty of AFC's who'd take you up on your offer.
Author MissHollywood Posted October 27, 2009 Author Posted October 27, 2009 U tell us. That said, I don't think I've ever asked out a woman who I wasn't already friends with on a one-on-one encounter unless I meant it to be a date. That I'm still trying to figure out. I've known friendly men so I think they're just friendly and asking me out because it's just in them to do that.
Agoraphobianebula Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 actually I would say you are going about it all wrong. You DO want to hang out in a group. That is the perfect way you will be able to weed out the promising men for you to date when you are ready. I think your approach is basically that you want to be friends first right? then what is a better way to find a good friend than by hanging out with them in a relaxed group setting, preferably one that is activity-based where you can observe them in their NATURAL habitat, how they play, how they relate to other people, how they relate to you, etc. Start there first and then build it up to one on one platonic dinner dates. I have found that the guys that are willing to go out with me to dinner and wine platonically are old friends whom I've known forever. New guy friends always expect something more.
EcstasyX6 Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 WTF? I would much rather have an awesome girl friend then a guy friend. Girl friends (not girlfriends) are rare and hard to come by. And it sounds to me that you (MissHollywood) simply get along better with guys then you do girls. So keep trying. Eventually you will meet a very open and confindent guy that can accept or mabye even wants to just be friends. And as soon as you get good in his books, he most def will have plenty of friends to introduce you too. It's never easy to find good friend material, that's what makes it so special. Right. Then you are a rare bird. I'm sticking to my point, and I believe most of the men here are in agreement. I guess it could work as long as there's no sexual tension either way, or the guy is on the nerdy side and totally inexperienced with women. A guy with any kind of suave, or experience with women, is going to have sex on the back of his mind if not in the near future, he's making plans or stacking up brownie points for it to happen eventually. I agree with the previous poster, that your best bet is still a group setting initially, so you can identify the type of man you seek. IME, the only 'safe' male friends, meaning those who didn't have sex on their minds(that I knew of), have been married men, and then for the most part, only in a couples or group setting.
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