Gypsy_Soul Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Yes, people who are CRUEL to animals are bad people, because they compensate their frustrations by torturing or terorizing an animal = use of violence for their sadistic pleasure. But you tell me that when person pulls hard on a dogs leash, slaps him or kicks him or by slamming him into his crate and taking away his blanket when it does something bad is a person who will eventually beat his woman and/or children, eventhough he has no history of doing so and is otherwise OK? I say it is misjudgment of character based on false premises. I still do not see where you are getting this from. The slapping, kicking, and slamming is violent. The person commiting these violent acts is of course violent. Like I said before there is a link to someone who is capable of doing violence towards animals will do the same to a person. Even if the person has no history of violence towards humans. It starts somewhere. Or wait maybe they just aren't courageous enough to commit such violence upon humans yet, just a smaller animal. Sounds like pent up rage to me.
DanielMadr Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 I still do not see where you are getting this from. The slapping, kicking, and slamming is violent. The person commiting these violent acts is of course violent. Like I said before there is a link to someone who is capable of doing violence towards animals will do the same to a person. Even if the person has no history of violence towards humans. It starts somewhere. Or wait maybe they just aren't courageous enough to commit such violence upon humans yet, just a smaller animal. Sounds like pent up rage to me. Have you seen Dog Whisperer? Would you say he was kind to the dogs? I say he was pretty mean to them. And he was a pro with some experience who doesnt loose nerve especially not on camera. So for some amateurs it might be OK to be a little rougher then he was, I guess. Whats your point on Dog Whisperer?
Author EcstasyX6 Posted November 10, 2009 Author Posted November 10, 2009 Thus, if this guy is having a hard time training his own dog properly in a non-abusive manner, I can only imagine what he is capable of doing if he is having a hard time dealing with children. He has two awesome teenaged children-one in college, who both chose to stay with him over his ex. He's been nothing but kind to me, and always gives great advice when I'm talking with him about the issues with my kids.
Author EcstasyX6 Posted November 10, 2009 Author Posted November 10, 2009 no one's judging you sweetie.. you posted saying he was mean to his dog and it concerned you.. and rightly so. I know I could never stay with someone that did something like that... as a few others on here wouldn't either... but it's your life and you're going to do what you want. To me it's a red flag in the least and I'd keep a watch for any further "outbursts". I guess all I can say to you now is good luck... Thanks TK, I simply wanted advice about how to handle the situation. He's a great human being who I happen to love and who has a problem I wanted advice on. I believe I stated that I'm committed to him and was seeking help, not how fast to get rid of him or to call animal control on him. As I mentioned, I talked to him about this a few times since my initial post, and his response was positive. If he had been defensive and unwilling to modify his behavior(which he's already done) or see my point, then I'd consider leaving him. We'll have a great future because we can communicate about pretty much anything. I'm still happy and expect the best from him.
Author EcstasyX6 Posted November 10, 2009 Author Posted November 10, 2009 And Im telling you it has no relevance. There are people who dont see and treat dogs as human children. Therefore they have less patience for the dog in order to save their patience and time for their kids. And they simply dont see anything bad in treating dog a rough way because they know dogs and they have seen how dogs rise dogs in natural habitat - you would cry for a week seeing that:) My point. just because a man kicks a dog doesnt mean he will kick you or kids. Maybe he is just old school. His dog is to guard the house not to be his furry friend to stroke his ego by blindly loving him no matter what. Thanks Daniel. He didn't kick him though, and it's not a guard dog, but a small breed. But I agree with you that it has relevance , and also aggression hasn't been manifested in any other situation. I think people are jumping to the statements they've heard about people who torture animals, and eventually become serial killers. He takes good care of him;feeds him daily, takes him to the vet regularly, keeps him clean, walks him, etc. If I'm wrong, I will be back here unashamed to admit it, but my gut tells me I'm right about him. Discussion about the dog whisperer came up, and I brought up some tips from him that I've used, and I talked about how I discipline my dog. He listened and said those methods could possibly work for him. Someone mentioned using a spray water bottle...thanks for that tip!
tkgirl Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Thanks TK, I simply wanted advice about how to handle the situation. He's a great human being who I happen to love and who has a problem I wanted advice on. I believe I stated that I'm committed to him and was seeking help, not how fast to get rid of him or to call animal control on him. As I mentioned, I talked to him about this a few times since my initial post, and his response was positive. If he had been defensive and unwilling to modify his behavior(which he's already done) or see my point, then I'd consider leaving him. We'll have a great future because we can communicate about pretty much anything. I'm still happy and expect the best from him. yep, that fact that he's open to suggestions on how to better discipline his dog is a good sign. As a huge animal lover (especially dogs) this thread did bother me a bit. Anytime I hear about any animal being mistreated it makes me want to cry (and has in the past!) But I have to remember that not everyone views animals in the same way... anyways, communication is very important and you two sound like you are definitely doing well in that area... that's awesome!
Gypsy_Soul Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Thanks Daniel. He didn't kick him though, and it's not a guard dog, but a small breed. But I agree with you that it has relevance , and also aggression hasn't been manifested in any other situation. I think people are jumping to the statements they've heard about people who torture animals, and eventually become serial killers. He takes good care of him;feeds him daily, takes him to the vet regularly, keeps him clean, walks him, etc. If I'm wrong, I will be back here unashamed to admit it, but my gut tells me I'm right about him. Discussion about the dog whisperer came up, and I brought up some tips from him that I've used, and I talked about how I discipline my dog. He listened and said those methods could possibly work for him. Someone mentioned using a spray water bottle...thanks for that tip! I believe you're talking about me when you stated that people are jumping to the statements they've heard about people who torture animals and eventually become serial killers. I didn't just hear this, I've actually studied about it, I'm a psych minor btw. I'd like to clarify myself a bit more though. I don't mean that he will eventually torture animals and become an actual serial killer. I said that there is a direct link that a person who commits violence towards another creature will most likely have no problem commiting violence towards another person, or vice versa. It doesn't have to be kill or torture, just some other form of violence. Right you didn't say he kicked the little dog, but you did say he slammed or body slammed the dog into the cage. To me this is violence. Some people are more tolerant of abuse and other's such as I are not. We have all already established that he has a short temper and able to commit violence when it comes to something that he doesn't like or finds frustrating. More power to you if you feel you are able to change your man, because you love him and he's sweet and kind in other ways. Just like Daniel had mentioned before people can be sweet towards certain things and evil/mean towards something else. So, sincerely, good luck to you on that.
2sure Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Mini Doberman are such small , fragile dogs. Tossing, slamming such a small defenseless animal is just ....such a mean thing. This is not even the same as pushing around a great big working dog...which is also a stupid way to teach, but at least a big dog you can rough house with. This is not a tough guard dog by any means. Most people do not physically hurt small dogs like this in anger. I would be very suspect of anyone who did or who condoned it. Why did the dog pee on the floor? Was it left alone so long he had to go and then got punished for it? Small dogs cant wait that long. I would give him the benefit of the doubt but I would speak up and tell him this bothers you.
DanielMadr Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 I believe you're talking about me when you stated that people are jumping to the statements they've heard about people who torture animals and eventually become serial killers. I didn't just hear this, I've actually studied about it, I'm a psych minor btw. major would be better I'd like to clarify myself a bit more though. I don't mean that he will eventually torture animals and become an actual serial killer. I said that there is a direct link that a person who commits violence towards another creature will most likely have no problem commiting violence towards another person, or vice versa. It doesn't have to be kill or torture, just some other form of violence. Right you didn't say he kicked the little dog, but you did say he slammed or body slammed the dog into the cage. To me this is violence. Some people are more tolerant of abuse and other's such as I are not. We have all already established that he has a short temper and able to commit violence when it comes to something that he doesn't like or finds frustrating. No you established that More power to you if you feel you are able to change your man, because you love him and he's sweet and kind in other ways. Just like Daniel had mentioned before people can be sweet towards certain things and evil/mean towards something else. So, sincerely, good luck to you on that. btw Psychology is not an exact science. You cant accuse him of something that horrible just because of vague statistics. People were a lot meaner to animals 100 years ago and it does not mean they were worse people. They just didnt take them as family members. Dogs were to stay out of a house for example.
Gypsy_Soul Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 btw Psychology is not an exact science. You cant accuse him of something that horrible just because of vague statistics. People were a lot meaner to animals 100 years ago and it does not mean they were worse people. They just didnt take them as family members. Dogs were to stay out of a house for example. They are not statistics they are facts. I never stated that psychology was a science. I only replied to her comment stating that I was talking about their being a direct link with someone torturing and killing animals going on to become serial killers. I was clearing up that fact that I did not say that, or "HEAR" that, that in fact I studied it. Key word here is "FACTS" lol. What I mean to say once again, is that there is a link of violence against animals and violence towards people, whether it be in the form of torture, killing, and or abuse, especially domestic abuse. Violence comes in many different forms. We are not talking about the past, old skool, and/or 100 years ago. I am living in here and now, thus I talk about facts the we now know of today. Not the past. http://www.vachss.com/guest_dispatches/ascione_1.html
Gypsy_Soul Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 btw Psychology is not an exact science. You cant accuse him of something that horrible just because of vague statistics. People were a lot meaner to animals 100 years ago and it does not mean they were worse people. They just didnt take them as family members. Dogs were to stay out of a house for example. At least I minor in something towards the subject matter. For you major and minoring in it would be even better. It is also common sense that he does have a short temper, or what else could be the reason for his abuse towards the animal? Sadistic? Plain meanness? All of these other reasons could be, might be. She even said that he was upset at the fact that the dog soiled the floor. To me this sounds like an anger problem. I don't get angry at a dog that soils the floor especially if it's a puppy or if I left the dog inside all day. Sometimes we gotta go, but we can get our butts up and walk ourselves to a toilet. Dogs will go wherever they can if they can't get outside. I'm sure the dog would have if it could have. Another point is that this guy has issues with his temper, Daniel.
Gypsy_Soul Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Also, Daniel, I forgot to mention that I am not accusing him of something so horrible, I am only saying that it's a major red flag. One should always be wary of such a violent act against someone or an animal. I wished her luck on her own choice to stay and try to help him change that's all.
DanielMadr Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Also, Daniel, I forgot to mention that I am not accusing him of something so horrible, I am only saying that it's a major red flag. One should always be wary of such a violent act against someone or an animal. I wished her luck on her own choice to stay and try to help him change that's all. Are you aware of the fact that there are men who killed other human beings and maybe dogs too repeatedly and still are fully capable of controlling themselves and love their close ones very much and never would hurt them in any way? Studies of sociopaths and sexual sadists do mention that these people were deliberately cruel to animals but so did thousands of other kids tieing cans with pebbles to cats tails or shooting rats with BB gun. And they turned out pretty good. And vice versa. Let's agree it is Red Flag for you. Not for me and hopefully not for OP, who has the whole story - can tell better than us what he is made of.
Gypsy_Soul Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 Are you aware of the fact that there are men who killed other human beings and maybe dogs too repeatedly and still are fully capable of controlling themselves and love their close ones very much and never would hurt them in any way? Yes, I am aware of this, are you suggesting he is this type of man? He's capable of killing other humans and maybe even dogs too, but not her? I'm not getting your logic. You're going around in circles, dude. Studies of sociopaths and sexual sadists do mention that these people were deliberately cruel to animals but so did thousands of other kids tieing cans with pebbles to cats tails or shooting rats with BB gun. And they turned out pretty good. And vice versa. Show me these studies please. Let's agree it is Red Flag for you. Not for me and hopefully not for OP, who has the whole story - can tell better than us what he is made of. Um, if you had actually read through what I posted, you would have already known that I did mention that it is a red flag for me, among others whom do not tolerate such abuse/violence towards others or animals. That is why I sincerely wished her well on her choice. Again you're going in circles here. I know I surely wouldn't get involved with such a man, and yes that is my choice, just like it's your choice to be with whoever you decide as well. I hope we can finally agree to disagree, Daniel.
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