EcstasyX6 Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 My bf and I have been together for 6 months now. We've said ILY, and I'm totally captivated and impressed by him. I've haven't felt this strongly about anyone since my first love when I was 18. He's a great father to his teenaged kids, impressive and respected boss at his job, and never abused his ex(as far as I can tell). He is a kind, gentle, and passionate lover, and we get along great. Today, he told me when he came home, his miniature doberman had peed all over the floor, so he disciplined him by slamming him into his crate and taking away his blanket! This man is 6'4" and over 200 lbs. I was dismayed that he would even consider handling a small dog this way. I thought to myself, if he did this to my dog, he'd be in trouble, and there would be a huge argument. I explained that the dog probably didn't even connect the punishment with the incident, and he insisted the dog looked guilty and deserved the punishment. We've already talked about marriage or at least a long term future together, so I'm committed to him, but this came out of left field. In the past, I point blank asked him if he'd ever hit his ex, probing to find out why she left, and he emphatically denied ever doing that. His dad never did that to his mom, and he believes that a man should never put his hands on a woman. All I can go by at this point is what he says, but we all know that people who abuse animals may be abusive. What should I say to him? Could this be a sign of something underlying in him I don't know about?
MarieMarie Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 he disciplined him by slamming him into his crate and taking away his blanket! Question...do you mean that he put the dog in his crate and maybe slammed the door loudly? Or was he physically violent with the dog (i.e., hit the dog with the crate or something)? I would have serious doubts about someone that was physically violent with a pet. It would make a difference to me though whether he hit the dog in anger, or if he thinks that's a legitimate way to discipline animals. If he thought it was legitimate discipline, then it'd be worth talking about. If he did it in anger because he lost his temper, I think that would be a pretty bad sign. Just my opinion though! Curious to see what others say.
SoulSearch_CO Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 I'm not real sure if it points to anything underlying, although that is a flag to potential abuse of someone/thing smaller than oneself. However, I wanted to address the dog "punishment" thing. You are right - the dog did not connect the punishment with the crime. It was TOO LONG AGO. If you CATCH the dog in the act, you can "punish" (although slamming the dog into the crate is a bit much). Dogs want to make you happy. They are pack animals. They want their "alpha" to be happy with them. A stern voice and taking them out to the appropriate pee spot is plenty. If your BF keeps up with this behavior, I can assure you the dog will start to be afraid of him. Whatever the dog did RIGHT before your BF disciplined him (which was probably wag its tail and think "Yay! My buddy is home!") is what the dog will think it's in trouble for. At the very least, I'd tell your BF to read some training books - they pretty much agree that you can't punish HOURS after the matter. WTF.
Author EcstasyX6 Posted October 23, 2009 Author Posted October 23, 2009 Question...do you mean that he put the dog in his crate and maybe slammed the door loudly? Or was he physically violent with the dog (i.e., hit the dog with the crate or something)? I would have serious doubts about someone that was physically violent with a pet. It would make a difference to me though whether he hit the dog in anger, or if he thinks that's a legitimate way to discipline animals. If he thought it was legitimate discipline, then it'd be worth talking about. If he did it in anger because he lost his temper, I think that would be a pretty bad sign. Just my opinion though! Curious to see what others say. Marie-I mean to say he 'body slammed' him into his crate...tossed from a distance should I say? Soul-It was a combination of anger and discipline I think. I'll have to ask him. I think he was upset that he'd have to clean up the pee that was all over the floor, so he felt that the dog should be disciplined. (Sorry, I stink at the quote thing. It doesn't seem to work when I try to cut and paste someone's words. Sill such a newb.)
Angel1111 Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 You're right to be concerned about this behavior - it's totally wrong. You need to tell him how you feel about it and listen to his answer. It should tell you something. Personally, I have a big issue with anyone who keeps a dog in the house all day long and expects the dog to never have an accident. This is just cruel. I also think crates are cruel, although I know a lot of people believe in them. Animals should never be put in crates and his dog should be in a place where he can be outdoors. If he lives in an apartment, then he needs to accept the fact that accidents will happen. This whole thing is ridiculous and he should've never, ever resorted to that kind of violence. It's a big red flag.
Bumble Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Abusing animals is a horrendous sign. It usually indicates, as others mentioned, serious anger problems, and potentially a serious psychological disturbance. Or, it could be simple ignorance, depending on how he learned to raise animals. Some people genuinely think that is the way to handle those situations because they don't know any better. If he genuinely loves his dog and you, he should respond quickly when you tell him "That is animal cruelty (which is illegal, by the way). You need to learn new training techniques to handle your dog's mistakes (and strategies for coping with your anger), and I'll help you do that if you're willing." If he responds positively, in the sense that he sees this reaction as being a problem and wants to change it, chalk it up to ignorance on his part for now and help him learn how to handle his dog. If he denies that it's an issue, or even becomes irritated that you think it's an issue, I'd run... and fast.
donnamaybe Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 What should I say to him? Nothing. Could this be a sign of something underlying in him I don't know about? Absolutely.
Angel1111 Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Abusing animals is a horrendous sign. It usually indicates, as others mentioned, serious anger problems, and potentially a serious psychological disturbance. Or, it could be simple ignorance, depending on how he learned to raise animals. Some people genuinely think that is the way to handle those situations because they don't know any better. If he genuinely loves his dog and you, he should respond quickly when you tell him "That is animal cruelty (which is illegal, by the way). You need to learn new training techniques to handle your dog's mistakes (and strategies for coping with your anger), and I'll help you do that if you're willing." If he responds positively, in the sense that he sees this reaction as being a problem and wants to change it, chalk it up to ignorance on his part for now and help him learn how to handle his dog. If he denies that it's an issue, or even becomes irritated that you think it's an issue, I'd run... and fast. Excellent point. He could've been raised to think this is the way to discipline animals. Maybe you can give him some dog training sessions as a xmas gift. He may not know better, but if he reacts badly when you bring it up, then you're going to need to think about this seriously.
looking4 green grass Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 I like the ideas mentioned about dog training classes. Some people really do think it's ok to discipline dogs via hitting them or spanking them. I also have a little dog and I use a squirt bottle, I would never hit her. Try suggesting the squirt bottle discipline method. It's been so effective for me. See what his reaction is to that. Maybe he doesn't know any other way to work with a dog.
boogieboy Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Its only been 6 months. Youre still in the honeymoon phase... the real him is starting to come out. You might get a few more surprises soon.
Author EcstasyX6 Posted October 23, 2009 Author Posted October 23, 2009 Its only been 6 months. Youre still in the honeymoon phase... the real him is starting to come out. You might get a few more surprises soon. Indeed. I thought he seemed too good to be true, but I hope there are no more major surprises. I thought about this all day, and was anxious to see what your replies would be. He says he loves me. So I thought about saying something like, "if something that you did really upset me, would you stop doing it?" I'm expecting it will be a yes, then when I tell him, if he acts like it's not a big deal after I explain how much I love animals, and that I find his acts cruel, I don't know what I'll do. My heart was literally aching over this. He seemed like the man of my dreams. I'll also explain that he could seriously injure his dog whom he has said in the past he loves. If we live together in the future, I'd want to stab him if he did anything hurtful to my dog. After my divorce is final, I plan to get a german shepherd for protection for me and my kids, who will definitely bite his ass if he makes a misstep(my current dog would lick a serial killer). Anyway, I don't want it to go that far, but I'm just saying. I love my dog like a family member. He was raised in an 'old school' type of family, and I wonder if they received spankings regularly. It could be cultural and like someone mentioned, an ignorance about how to train a dog properly.
Lucky_One Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 I would tend to look at his actions carefully, and realize that a quote from him might not be what actually happened. He may have meant that he slammed the door on the crate, rather than tossed a chihuahua across the room; most people who own little dogs know that they are fairly fragile. Discussing marriage after 6 months? i guess that's ok, but I would certainly date for a couple of years.
Angel1111 Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 If you have kids, you don't need to try out living with anyone. Either he's willing to marry you and either he's good enough to marry, or not. It's a really bad idea to live together before marriage. And, btw, there is nothing wrong with spanking a child. Not in the abuse form of spanking but sometimes a kid needs to be spanked. Our society has lost touch with what is normal discipline and abuse. The truth is, you don't really know this guy that well. You need to be very careful here and, while it's good to give him the benefit of the doubt, don't overlook something like this if he doesn't react well when you bring it up. Most abusive men are extremely charming in the beginning and they're very attentive. They seem like dream guys at first. That's how they get the woman hooked. Then, little by little, they reveal their other side. He may be a good guy, but you have reason to be cautious at the moment.
Author EcstasyX6 Posted October 23, 2009 Author Posted October 23, 2009 If you have kids, you don't need to try out living with anyone. Either he's willing to marry you and either he's good enough to marry, or not. It's a really bad idea to live together before marriage. And, btw, there is nothing wrong with spanking a child. Not in the abuse form of spanking but sometimes a kid needs to be spanked. Our society has lost touch with what is normal discipline and abuse. The truth is, you don't really know this guy that well. You need to be very careful here and, while it's good to give him the benefit of the doubt, don't overlook something like this if he doesn't react well when you bring it up. Most abusive men are extremely charming in the beginning and they're very attentive. They seem like dream guys at first. That's how they get the woman hooked. Then, little by little, they reveal their other side. He may be a good guy, but you have reason to be cautious at the moment. Actually, I'm the one with cold feet. Marriage is just a future plan right now, and it wouldn't happen until our kids are out of the house most likely. Maybe a really long engagement....I want to live on my own for awhile and let the dust settle, and we'll see where things go. I'm kind of 'old school', and have never believed in living together; either you want to get married or remain single and separate. Yes, I'm being very careful, and observing his actions. I'm wondering if he's slightly controlling because he already told me that I no longer need to show any cleavage when I go to school, and that now, that's for him to look at. I put him in his place quickly, and he backed down apologizing. I've never had a man try to suggest what I should be wearing, but he felt secure about it when I assured him that I wasn't trying to meet anyone else. Even though it's early in the relationship, I haven't been this impressed with a man in a long time.(not dating, but just men in general) We just spoke on the phone for a couple of hours, but I didn't bring up the dog. We were having such a nice conversation, reminiscing about our childhood and family experiences that I didn't want to ruin the mood. Regarding spanking-my kids are too old at this point, but I've never spanked them, and they're very obedient. I used the pinch method a few times when they were little, although never had to resort to the all out strap across the rump(yard stick when I was a kid), so I'm not sure it's necessary. Maybe it depends upon the kid. But back to the dog-maybe I'll bring it up later this evening when we talk again. I don't want to wait to long when it's pointless to bring up. My sincere hope is that it's an isolated thing, and he'll blow it off, and say, "ok baby, if it bothers you that much, I'll never do that again."(fingers crossed)
Author EcstasyX6 Posted October 25, 2009 Author Posted October 25, 2009 O.K. I finally worked up the nerve to question him about the incident. It kind of just came up because I was talking to him while I was walking my dog. He said he didn't slam his enough to hurt him, but to discipline him. I gently worked the Dog Whisperer, who he'd watched before, into the conversation, and how I used his methods on my dog. We then discussed various forms of discipline to use which he was open about, but said his dog was hard headed, and he'd given up trying other methods assuring me again that he didn't really hurt him. Whew!! I'm so relieved. I was so afraid he was a psycho abusive nut in disguise. Don't worry, I'm still being conservative in terms of my enthusiasm, since we're early into the relationship. Thanks to all of you for your comments.
Angel1111 Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 I'm concerned about two things that immediately stand out to me: 1) you seemed afraid to bring this up to him. you 'worked up the nerve'? why did you have to work up the nerve? and 2) when he first told you what he did to the dog, why didn't you react right at the moment? if my bf told me he slammed his dog into a cage, my immediate response would be, "You did WHAT to your dog???!!!" You seem to hold yourself back with either this guy, or just in general, even about things that are of great importance. And even when you did bring it up, you downplayed it so much that you still don't feel satisfied with the answer. Actually, one reason you're not fully satisfied with his answer is because even if he didn't hurt the dog - which I don't believe - the truth is, no animal needs to be in fear of that kind of retaliation in reaction to his behavior. It puts them in fear. I'd say, overall, you've got a big problem on your hands. Several problems.
JustLooking123 Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 O.K. I finally worked up the nerve to question him about the incident. It kind of just came up because I was talking to him while I was walking my dog. He said he didn't slam his enough to hurt him, but to discipline him. I gently worked the Dog Whisperer, who he'd watched before, into the conversation, and how I used his methods on my dog. We then discussed various forms of discipline to use which he was open about, but said his dog was hard headed, and he'd given up trying other methods assuring me again that he didn't really hurt him. Whew!! I'm so relieved. I was so afraid he was a psycho abusive nut in disguise. Don't worry, I'm still being conservative in terms of my enthusiasm, since we're early into the relationship. Thanks to all of you for your comments. Uh, how did this explanation ease your mind? He still slammed the dog into the crate; even if his intention was to disclipline but not hurt the dog, sounds like it still hurt the poor doggy. How does he know whether or not it is painful for the dog to be slammed into a crate??? Sounds like he is actually not open to other discipline methods at all.
SoulSearch_CO Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 We then discussed various forms of discipline to use which he was open about, but said his dog was hard headed, and he'd given up trying other methods assuring me again that he didn't really hurt him. Whew!! I'm so relieved. No offense, but it sounds like your SO is the one that is hard-headed - not the mastermind Min-Pin. He needs to learn about TIMING when it comes to training a dog. That is the biggest hang-up, here. The dog is going to learn to be afraid of him. I suppose if that's what he wants, though - he should carry on. I personally think it's unfortunate.
Author EcstasyX6 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Posted October 27, 2009 I'm concerned about two things that immediately stand out to me: 1) you seemed afraid to bring this up to him. you 'worked up the nerve'? why did you have to work up the nerve? and 2) when he first told you what he did to the dog, why didn't you react right at the moment? if my bf told me he slammed his dog into a cage, my immediate response would be, "You did WHAT to your dog???!!!" You seem to hold yourself back with either this guy, or just in general, even about things that are of great importance. And even when you did bring it up, you downplayed it so much that you still don't feel satisfied with the answer. Actually, one reason you're not fully satisfied with his answer is because even if he didn't hurt the dog - which I don't believe - the truth is, no animal needs to be in fear of that kind of retaliation in reaction to his behavior. It puts them in fear. I'd say, overall, you've got a big problem on your hands. Several problems. Regarding your first points;that's something that I'm working on that was a problem in my marriage. I'm just not the most direct person sometimes when things are bothering me. I'm just not confrontational. Sometimes I may take as long as a day or two to bring up something I don't like especially involving a close friend or family. The closer I am to a person, the harder it is for me, because I don't want that person upset with me or to make them upset. More therapy needed I think. Today, I talked to him some more about his abusive behavior, and he swore that he didn't hurt him, but I explained why it was the wrong way to discipline a dog, and proved that by showing him that the dog hasn't learned anything and is still repeating the same unwanted actions. I don't see it as a big problem, but I'm monitoring the issue, and definitely feel more comfortable bringing up the dog more casually because he wasn't at all defensive about it. He had a very large breed dog a few years ago who had to be put down from a disease, and when I asked if he treated him the way he treats this dog, he emphatically stated no, because may have been bitten. Interesting.
Jilly Bean Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 Marie-I mean to say he 'body slammed' him into his crate...tossed from a distance should I say? Inexcusable, and I'd drop him in a heartbeat. Any person who abuses an animal is the lowest of the low. It's right there with pedophilia, in my book - abuse of those smaller, weaker, and unable to defend themselves. I would be HIGHLY wary of someone who could hurt a pet. I would assume if he would do that to his dog, then I'd certainly be next. It's just indicative of an abusive personality...
Thornton Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 This would be a deal-breaker for me, an instant dumping offence. He doesn't deserve to have a dog; he's just a big bully. Call the animal welfare authorities and report him - violence towards pets is disgusting and unacceptable. If you marry him he'll probably treat your future baby the same way, and possibly be violent towards you too, since he obviously has a violent personality and problems with anger. Don't say you haven't been warned.
Author EcstasyX6 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Posted October 27, 2009 This would be a deal-breaker for me, an instant dumping offence. He doesn't deserve to have a dog; he's just a big bully. Call the animal welfare authorities and report him - violence towards pets is disgusting and unacceptable. If you marry him he'll probably treat your future baby the same way, and possibly be violent towards you too, since he obviously has a violent personality and problems with anger. Don't say you haven't been warned. Everybody has deal breakers, and this is not one for me, because I feel that I know a lot more about the man obviously than you do. He's warm, loving, attentive, and generous. When someone you love has a long list of great characteristics, you don't just dump him or her for one that you may suspect may be a problem for that person or call animal welfare on him. If you do on a whim, then you don't love that person. If I am ever there witnessing abuse, I will stop it. I don't have a problem doing that. All I have is his word right now, and I'm taking it until proven otherwise. He has 2 great kids, who are warm, loving and successful. We are too 'over the hill' to have babies IMO, even though we discussed it. There's been nothing in his treatment of me to suggest that he's abusive to women. I'm no fool. If he ever laid a hand on me, he's out. Period. I have never been abused, and I'm not about to start being a victim in my 40's. I will continue to work with him about this issue, as he swore to me he didn't hurt him. I think it's a matter of education about dog training. Thank you for the advice.
WalkInThePark Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 My bf and I have been together for 6 months now. We've said ILY, and I'm totally captivated and impressed by him. I've haven't felt this strongly about anyone since my first love when I was 18. He's a great father to his teenaged kids, impressive and respected boss at his job, and never abused his ex(as far as I can tell). He is a kind, gentle, and passionate lover, and we get along great. Today, he told me when he came home, his miniature doberman had peed all over the floor, so he disciplined him by slamming him into his crate and taking away his blanket! This man is 6'4" and over 200 lbs. I was dismayed that he would even consider handling a small dog this way. I thought to myself, if he did this to my dog, he'd be in trouble, and there would be a huge argument. I explained that the dog probably didn't even connect the punishment with the incident, and he insisted the dog looked guilty and deserved the punishment. We've already talked about marriage or at least a long term future together, so I'm committed to him, but this came out of left field. In the past, I point blank asked him if he'd ever hit his ex, probing to find out why she left, and he emphatically denied ever doing that. His dad never did that to his mom, and he believes that a man should never put his hands on a woman. All I can go by at this point is what he says, but we all know that people who abuse animals may be abusive. What should I say to him? Could this be a sign of something underlying in him I don't know about? I've got a friend who also hits her dog when he does something he shouldn't do. She is a very nice person who would never hit anyone. She just does not know how to deal with a dog. If you watch TV programmes about mis-trained dogs, you see that behaviour all the time. Either people are too soft with their dogs or too harsh. I would not draw too many conclusions from this and talk about it to him. But be vigilant and check how he deals with people who annoy him. Also, try to find out what the reason is of his divorce.
sedgwick Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 Oh no, that sucks! I'm so sorry you had to witness that. I know that for me it would be an immediate turnoff. A friend was just telling me the other night that he met a guy in a bar and went home with him. He was all ready to get sexy, and then on the way home the guy saw a cat in the street and swerved at it and laughed. At the next stop light, my friend jumped out of the car and took off running.
spookie Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 I think what hasn't been established was whether he was trying to hurt the dog. If he was just trying to "punish" it by roughly putting him in his crate, then I think that means he sucks with animals, not that he's an abuser.... If he literally through a chihuaha across the room, knowing full well he was hurting him - well, that's a different story. In that case, I'd run. But I think you need to figure out exactly what happened, and the intent.
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