Author floridapad Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 Sumdude I hear what you are saying but half of the people getting remarried are like you, me and everyone else on LS. The question I guess is how do you know your marrying the person like you and me and LS...... I don't know the answer to that question.....I do know though that core values, core beliefs, are part of the answer.... The rest... Who knows?? Link to post Share on other sites
Chrome Barracuda Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Sumdude I hear what you are saying but half of the people getting remarried are like you, me and everyone else on LS. The question I guess is how do you know your marrying the person like you and me and LS...... I don't know the answer to that question.....I do know though that core values, core beliefs, are part of the answer.... The rest... Who knows?? If she is still being torn on her feelings about the OM, why are you even entertaining the idea of being back together with her. The question is has she became a better person, does she seem like a great match to you in your new life. Can she not revert to her old ways and sleep around. Will she be faithful this time???? I mean there are so many other questions that need to be answered. I'd rather not even try after a certain point. Let me be in that situation. "Oh I love you but I still got feelings for him, can you wait until I can get closure with the man who I F-ed and broke up our marriage over???" WTF HELL NO, I'd be gone mayn. Link to post Share on other sites
Author floridapad Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 CB I'm beginning to get on the same page as you. Slowly but surely. Just to give you background on her, She has always given 100% to the marriage where as I did not. She has never even cheated (even kissed another guy) on a boyfriend in her life. She once had a heart of Gold. If she did not have this type of history I would not be in it at all. If I thought for a second she wouldn't be this way again I would not be in it. Right now it is all uncertainty. I will still give her a little time to grieve, have her come to her own realizations, but I will not wait for her to get emotional closure with the OM. Has she become a better person? No not yet, but I am confidant that she would never cheat again. She is in HELL and knows that it is her cheating that did it, not me. Link to post Share on other sites
Author floridapad Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 I sent my wife a very long letter last night which outlined all the things that can be done to restore love and the marriage and be happy in our lifes like others have been able to do (albeit a very few). I wrote the letter based on input from the marriage builder counselor. This morning she sent me an e-mail saying she had to get away from school (where the OM works) and take a leave of abscence for a few weeks because she has broken down. She said she literally can not function. She called me an hour later crying saying she was going to see her sister (who lives in Italy so no OM) for a few weeks. I asked her if my letter had anything to do with her breakdown and she said yes. I told her that was not the intent and she said I know don't worry it was a beautiful letter. She needs some time to clear her head. I told her she should leave the school and she responded "I am not leaving that school, he is going to have to leave". Question: Is this the breakdown she needed? Is this the breakdown I needed to see? Please constructive feedback. She is in living HELL while I am faring pretty descently (but have a ways to go). My how the tide has turned. Link to post Share on other sites
FeelingLonely98 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 This morning she sent me an e-mail saying she had to get away from school (where the OM works) and take a leave of abscence for a few weeks because she has broken down. She said she literally can not function. She called me an hour later crying saying she was going to see her sister (who lives in Italy so no OM) for a few weeks. fp - Can you be 100% certain that she is actually going to see her Sis and not meeting up with the OM? That's the first thing I thought of. Link to post Share on other sites
hopesndreams Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 She's being a coward and running away from you for a few weeks. How can the problems be worked on when you aren't together? Seems like her heart just ain't in it. The breaking down after reading the letter, assuring you the letter was sweet but needs to get away? C'mon. It's all just a game to her. Maybe OM needs those few weeks to get his act together so they could be together? Possibility? Keep in mind, cheaters lie...big time. "I am not leaving that school, he is going to have to leave". How does she propose that this could happen? Isn't she in NC with him? If she was dead serious about making the M work, she would be sending out resumes, actively job searching and looking forward to the day of being away from him completely and never having to lay eyes on him again. Link to post Share on other sites
sumdude Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 fp - Can you be 100% certain that she is actually going to see her Sis and not meeting up with the OM? That's the first thing I thought of. Me too, my ex claimed to be at her brother in law's father's funeral for a few days.. not. Some of them will say anything to be with the OM. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 No, I really think she is going. How hard would it be for FP to contact her at her sister's...? presumably, after this long a marriage, he knows how to contact his SiL..... She needs some kind of neutral territory to be able to distance herself from BOTH scenarios to clear her head....and maybe her sister will be just the person she needs to say - "WTF are you thinking - ?!?" On the other hand, she could equally be the person to say - "Aw, sis... follow your heart...if FP doesn't fit any more, cut the ties....." FP...Really, you need to stop the mind games, the moves, the calculations and the tactics. The only question you need to ask yourself right now is... "Is this anxiety worth living with for the rest of my life? How much do I really want this?" Link to post Share on other sites
FeelingLonely98 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 On the other hand, she could equally be the person to say - "Aw, sis... follow your heart...if FP doesn't fit any more, cut the ties....." and maybe her sister will be just the person she needs to say - "WTF are you thinking - ?!?" It could go wither way. My STBXW's friends tell her "go follow your heart" ETC. --> most likely because she has rewritten our M history to paint me as the world's worst H. HOWEVER, the 47 yr old STBXW's family does not see her or avoids her. They know the truth ... They'll tell her "WTF are you doing with an 18 yo boy!!" Latest I hear is the STBXW does not show up at her family's homes anymore. (Hmm, Could she be ashamed and embarassed at her choice of BF? Or wants to avoid the 3rd degree?) Sorry to threadjack fp!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Author floridapad Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 Taramaiden. Your right. I will know if she goes to her sisters place. I am good freinds with the brother in law and we talk on webcam quite a bit. She will probably even say goodnight to the children Her sister is actually on my side. She knows she is crazy but your also right, she is not a counselor and will probably do the old, "do what makes you happy" thing not knowing that what might make her happy in the moment may have severe repercussions. She has not committed to the marriage yet, but I am confident she is not in contact with OM (I have her e-mail and cell passwords with out her knowledge). I think she is truly facing a combination of grieving, guilt, confusion, anxiety, stupidity and everything else that comes when someone is at the end of an affair and has broken up their family. Or so I hope. I'll keep you posted. The anxiety for me comes and goes. I am learning to handle it (of course Zoloft helps). I find I am happier when I focus on myself and not her or the marriage. As sumdude said, the path of indifference is my friend (or something like that). I cannot control her thoughts or actions so all I can do is focus on me. This helps. Link to post Share on other sites
sumdude Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 (edited) Well whatever you do don't try to use her family to get to her or gather information. That most certainly will blow up in your face. They may appear to be on your side for the moment but blood runs thicker and it would only pi$$ her off. Trust me on this. Just let it all go for now and see where the chips land. In fact I wouldn't even contact her sis or brother in law, if they choose to contact you be cool and distant. It's all up to her now and you should take the time while she's away to explore yourself and your options. Edited November 10, 2009 by sumdude Link to post Share on other sites
seibert253 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Florida, you've done well. You've done all you can do, it's now up to her. Time to work on you. That's all you can do now. Personally, I think she's broken. IMO, be there when she reaches out, but at the same time remain distant. Getting a taste of life without you and the kids will probably push her right off this fence. Peace, and Good Luck Link to post Share on other sites
Chrome Barracuda Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 good lord I would just be tired of the drama, the uncertainty, the crap. either she's in or she's not. Link to post Share on other sites
Author floridapad Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 Spoke to her again last night. She sent me a text asking if she could call me in 15. I told her I would call her when I got home that I was out with friends. 2 hours later I call her and she is still in tears. She booked her flight to Italy (yes I verified on her e-mail) and she is leaving for three weeks. She also said (for the first time) she may take a permanent leave of abscence from the school. Now that is the first time she ever even remotely broached that topic. She LOVES her job and has NEVER even entertained the thought of leaving. She said if she comes back and can still not deal with the situation of working with OM then she is leaving. Apparently my 13D is very upset with her which is only adding to her grief. Wow.....All of this from exposure (but the affair was towards its end) and the letter I sent her. Maybe I'll post it. Complete implosion of her world.......and she holds herself accountable for everything... sumdude - I try to avoid that at all costs but the subject does come up. They love me and they know the best thing for her is to stay with me and the family. Seibert - Oh Yes you are right. I was doing great until the exposure incident which sucked me right back in to her and the situation. Time to detach..It will be tough. CB - Yep that choice she needs to make is almost there. I will not go on in limbo land. I would rather be in Hell than limbo land. What she doesn't realize yet is that I have many demands and expectations from her for getting back with her should we reach that point. . Link to post Share on other sites
2.50 a gallon Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 floridapad As i noted in my first post I am the type who could not forgive my wife for straying. I also love fried calves liver and fried chicken livers. Yummy! But that is me! Having said that I can relate to what you and your wife are going through. In my past I know of a similar situation. Different in that it was the H who had the affair. The affair collapsed with exposure. He hit rock bottom when his 2 teenage kids told him they no longer saw him as their father. Lost in the fog he eventually flew across country to spend a couple of weeks with his younger brother. It was there, away from the home environment that he was able to clear his head. When he returned he chose to go back with his wife. He was a family friend so I knew some of the details. He was concerned about my life of chasing women, never settling down and tried to give me some advice. He brought up his wayward time. He told me how much his grandkids, and great grand son meant to him. His message to me was, 25 years later it still scared him to think about what he might have missed. So my message to you is to be patient. There are no guaranties, but there is a chance that by her getting away and spending time with her sister, she might be able to defog. It is your life and if you want to try and have a future with your wife, that is for you to decide. Hopefully you have many more years to live and nothing needs to be decided today, tomorrow or even next month, unless you so chose to. Gallon Link to post Share on other sites
Author floridapad Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 2.50 Thank you for the story..It was the right thing for me to hear at the right time. People do get through this and can live very happy lives. I am one who tends to forgive as long as there is true repentance and I can envision happiness after recovery, which I can. But I m not getting my hopes up. She is still in a deep fog. I will keep you all posted.... Link to post Share on other sites
FeelingLonely98 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 But I m not getting my hopes up. She is still in a deep fog. I will keep you all posted.... The "fog". Many have told me my STBXW is deep into a fog. I wonder if many of the wayward spouses never get out of this "fog". They have completely transformed their personality forever, k? Is this possible? Link to post Share on other sites
HarmonyHope Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 The "fog". Many have told me my STBXW is deep into a fog. I wonder if many of the wayward spouses never get out of this "fog". They have completely transformed their personality forever, k? Is this possible? Or maybe it's not a fog for her at all. Maybe you are just finally able to see her for who she really is. Ultimately she's choosing to do something based on what she wants to do. Whether it's caused by fog, personailty, or heavy drugs doesn't much matter, the end result is the same. Would it really make it easier for you to let her go if you believed she was in a fog (which implies she's under the influence of something you can save her from)? You have to think about you now - she's made her bed and can lay in it. Link to post Share on other sites
sumdude Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 The "fog". Many have told me my STBXW is deep into a fog. I wonder if many of the wayward spouses never get out of this "fog". They have completely transformed their personality forever, k? Is this possible? I don't know about the fog or such. Maybe it's just infatuation and the excitement of the affair. Most of us rarely hear much about the ex as time passes. There are some people (like my ex) who go through cycles of changing everything around them to find 'happiness' and never quite realize that it has to come from inside. They'll move every few years, change partners when things hit rough spots or the doldrums. They'll blame anyone or anything but themselves. It easier in some ways than actually facing the real issues. ahh.. what the he** do I know. Link to post Share on other sites
Author floridapad Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 HarmonyHope..In response to your question below Would it really make it easier for you to let her go if you believed she was in a fog (which implies she's under the influence of something you can save her from)? For me, it would make it easier to let go if I knew she was NOT in an affair induced fog and that this IS who she will ALWAYS be. The problem, is this is not who she has been for the last 20 years, so is it a breif F up in her life and fog induced from her F up. I can fight through a fog but I will let go only if I know this is who she is, not in the moment but forever. Link to post Share on other sites
HarmonyHope Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 For me, it would make it easier to let go if I knew she was NOT in an affair induced fog and that this IS who she will ALWAYS be. The problem, is this is not who she has been for the last 20 years, so is it a breif F up in her life and fog induced from her F up. I can fight through a fog but I will let go only if I know this is who she is, not in the moment but forever. But how will you ever know that? What is the definitive signs of that? I just don't want to see anyone wasting their life waiting for Godot. Link to post Share on other sites
seibert253 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 IMO "the fog" is true. The person's complete outlook, feelings, personality, all of it is clouded by the A. It's like being addicted to a drug, deep down they know it's wrong, but they can't and don't want to stop. Some spouses wake up and come out of the fog, others don't. Some have to be "helped" out of the fog. When my FWW was in the fog, it was like being in bizarro world. She was the complete opposite of the woman I loved. I mean I literally told her "who the f#ck are you, you are not the woman I married X number of years ago". Before the A, she was a good wife and a great mother. During the A, she completely ignored me and her son. She didn't care about anything but the OM. I didn't see it at the time, but in hindsite I was like, wow. When she saw the D papers, that's when reality set in. Fog lifted, back to the real world. Link to post Share on other sites
65tr6 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 People do get through this and can live very happy lives. I am one who tends to forgive as long as there is true repentance and I can envision happiness after recovery, which I can. But I m not getting my hopes up. She is still in a deep fog. I will keep you all posted.... How long has it been since you exposed ? 6 months ? fp, you handled all this very well. We are more than one year from our d-day..it took my wife, it seemed like, forever to exit from the fog. She still seems depressed at times not from missing the OM but from the shame/guilt/remorse she has been experiencing. Got few questions for you. Why is your wife away from you ? What have you done to change your behavior and meeting your wife's needs ? (crux of plan A). Link to post Share on other sites
Author floridapad Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 65tr6 - We seperated 6 months ago the day I caught her seeing the OM....Again...We agreed to seperate and I left (yeah I know mistake). I unfortunately have been love busting her abit with the relentless affair talk (for the last 10 months) and that is something I am holding back on because she has revealed a lot about the affair and I can validate she is in NC with the OM. I have made very deep changes which she has said she see's but right now full NC from the OM has been only 3 weeks now so I guess the clock didn't start ticking until 3 weeks ago (defogging process). Seibert - I'm with you. I call it the fog because after 20 YEARS I find a person who is not the person that has been there in the past. At what point did you file the D papers. Was her affair emotionaly deep or short lived? HarmonyHope - Iw ill know because I have known her for 20 years. I do have a timeline in my head for when I make the absolute choice to move on. If I see no changes by then....I'm gone. Sumdude - Your post on happiness definately applies to her, although not from a relationship stand point. She has never been one to go in and out of relationships. Heck, we've been with each other for 20 years. It's thats low self esteem that she has battled since she was a kid. She is a "giver" through and through. Somehow if she makes other people happy that makes her happy. It validates her. She has been struggling with this since she was a child... Link to post Share on other sites
FeelingLonely98 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 When she saw the D papers, that's when reality set in. Fog lifted, back to the real world. Seibert - how long from the time of exposure 'til the day the "fog" lifted? ..it took my wife, it seemed like, forever to exit from the fog. 65 - same question --> how long from the time of exposure 'til the day the "fog" lifted? and I left (yeah I know mistake). fp - why do you say this was a mistake? I do have a timeline in my head for when I make the absolute choice to move on. Do you think it is best to have a deadline in your head for the day when it will be "too late" no matter what? Or is it better to play it day-by-day? It's thats low self esteem that she has battled since she was a kid. ... My wife has always had low self-esteem issues. Can you help ME understand why low self-esteem can be a factor in running from your spouse to an AP? Sorry - so many questions on your post Brother - but this is all very perplexing to me? Maybe it's just one of the LOW days on the rollercoaster. PEACE! Link to post Share on other sites
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