boldjack Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 The rub is that Good people don't deliberately do bad things, or they become bad people. If you cheat on an abuser, you are being a bad person , as well. Each person is responsible for their own f**k-ups.
tami-chan Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 Being abusive IS immoral. Being abusive is breaking a vow in the marriage. Infidelity is immoral. It is also breaking a vow in the marriage. If you are a purist and see life as black and white then there is no difference. One will just have to accept that sometimes one deserves what one gets in life. or one can see life as shades of gray-of mitigating and extenuating factors...
boldjack Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 It's sad, but life seems more and more to be one long game of escape and avoidance. One can pretty much justify any behavior, with excuses and psycho-babel.
2.50 a gallon Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 But John Wayne spanked his wives in the movies. Got to beat the lady to keep her in line
bentnotbroken Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 If it was just mental or emotional abuse that never got physical then no, don't deserve. But a beater for example that hits the SO sometimes, not only they should go to jail but should get all the horrible outcome of the their SO's affairs and poor treatment all the time. See what I mean, beaters (the ones doing it physically) shouldn't even be consider humans, they should get their life sentenced and possibly have their whole lifes screwed up... Hello, allow me to introduce myself, I am sub human BNB. I am a recovering physical, mental and emotional abuser, and I deserve to be cheated on. And my children deserved the fallout that happened because my H chose to cheat on me instead of have me arrested, committed or divorce me. Your thoughts of what should happen to me and other like me, doesn't include the fallout to our children, how do you deal with that in your rationale? You have yet to answer that question. There is never an exception to integrity.
road Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 No justification for abuse. No justification for an affair.
tami-chan Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 Hello, allow me to introduce myself, I am sub human BNB. I am a recovering physical, mental and emotional abuser, and I deserve to be cheated on. And my children deserved the fallout that happened because my H chose to cheat on me instead of have me arrested, committed or divorce me. Your thoughts of what should happen to me and other like me, doesn't include the fallout to our children, how do you deal with that in your rationale? You have yet to answer that question. There is never an exception to integrity. Nobody deserves to be abused---as Reggie would say -cheating is in his book, the worst abuse one could inflict on another person. So you were abusive, as your H was abusive. Your kids suffered-they did not deserved that. You could have asked for help. He could have divorced you. Sometimes people are just not equipped to handle the circumstances/situation they find themselves in and are just grasping for whatever is there-to his (and his loved ones') detriment,oftentimes. Integrity? you think there is "integrity" in betraying the trust of your children, your husband's? You were supposed to be THE safe haven but you were the abuser...! Look, in marriage, part of the vow is to love , support, nurture, etc, the partner...if you were abusive , how did you keep that part of the vow? HOWEVER, the important thing is...you WERE an abuser but now no more...see? there is hope.
MizzBlue72 Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 I cheated on my H. We had many problems - he drank and abused drugs. I should have just left and not cheated. In the end - it worked out for me. He is still where he was with drinking and drugging. No - this does NOT justify cheating, but I can see why people do it, and I will not judge others for it.
bentnotbroken Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 (edited) Nobody deserves to be abused---as Reggie would say -cheating is in his book, the worst abuse one could inflict on another person. So you were abusive, as your H was abusive. Your kids suffered-they did not deserved that. You could have asked for help. He could have divorced you. Sometimes people are just not equipped to handle the circumstances/situation they find themselves in and are just grasping for whatever is there-to his (and his loved ones') detriment,oftentimes. Integrity? you think there is "integrity" in betraying the trust of your children, your husband's? You were supposed to be THE safe haven but you were the abuser...! Look, in marriage, part of the vow is to love , support, nurture, etc, the partner...if you were abusive , how did you keep that part of the vow? HOWEVER, the important thing is...you WERE an abuser but now no more...see? there is hope. Exactly. When I realized that there was something seriously wrong(actually a girlfriend recognized and forced me to go to a doctor, after I gave her my letters to give friends and relatives after I committed suicide) My thoughts were wrong, my actions were wrong and I hurt a lot of people. I admit it, face it, own it. When I saw a doctor and was diagnosed with a chemical imbalance, I was put on meds, sent to counseling and apologized face to face to everyone who my abuse affected including my in-laws and own siblings, even though they had no idea what was going on. I own it everyday, because I am still rebuilding the trust of my children and healing the wounds I caused them. My question to the OP was if cheating is what I deserved, then why did my children deserve the consequences too. What did they do, they had already suffered at my hands, why did Mr. Messy add that additional trauma to their lives? Being 22 explains a lot. My oldest is 23 and we have done a lot of counseling to make sure he doesn't end up like this. My life is black and white, I reaped whatever horrible things I have done, I own it. What did my kids do, or extended family do? I AM a recovering abuser. There is no were. I continue to make daily choices to go against my first inclination when angry, disappointed or hurt. It will be a lifetime struggle, just as with any person recovering from the destructive behaviors and choices. Edited October 22, 2009 by bentnotbroken
Dexter Morgan Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 something else to ponder....let say I was, which I wouldn't be, an OM that was sleeping with the wife of an abuser. and lets say said wife finally left him for me.....IF being an abuser is an excuse to cheat, then I'd always wonder if she would use another excuse to cheat on me if absolutely everything doesn't go her way. Because I always here the sob stories of how even when one little "need" isn't met, its used as an excuse. ya, I know, not going down on a woman every single night is a far cry from abuse as an excuse....but I wouldn't want someone that cheated, much less cheated and made excuses, no matter what the excuses are.
armywife915 Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 Samsung, I find it interesting that you would feel a little sympathy for an emotional abuser and not a physical abuser. I am a true believer that words hurt a lot more. In a heated argument we all say things we don't mean but I have told my husband I could have taken a punch to the face and it would have hurt less than that certain comment. I think a lot of women would agree. But I agree with everyone who says it's not an excuse to cheat. If you are being abused you should not stay in the relationship. Duh.
tami-chan Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 something else to ponder....let say I was, which I wouldn't be, an OM that was sleeping with the wife of an abuser. and lets say said wife finally left him for me.....IF being an abuser is an excuse to cheat, then I'd always wonder if she would use another excuse to cheat on me if absolutely everything doesn't go her way. Because I always here the sob stories of how even when one little "need" isn't met, its used as an excuse. ya, I know, not going down on a woman every single night is a far cry from abuse as an excuse....but I wouldn't want someone that cheated, much less cheated and made excuses, no matter what the excuses are. If you BECOME an abuser, she might, if she had not by then learned there are other ways to cope with or leave an abusive relationship.
tami-chan Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 Exactly. When I realized that there was something seriously wrong(actually a girlfriend recognized and forced me to go to a doctor, after I gave her my letters to give friends and relatives after I committed suicide) My thoughts were wrong, my actions were wrong and I hurt a lot of people. I admit it, face it, own it. When I saw a doctor and was diagnosed with a chemical imbalance, I was put on meds, sent to counseling and apologized face to face to everyone who my abuse affected including my in-laws and own siblings, even though they had no idea what was going on. I own it everyday, because I am still rebuilding the trust of my children and healing the wounds I caused them. My question to the OP was if cheating is what I deserved, then why did my children deserve the consequences too. What did they do, they had already suffered at my hands, why did Mr. Messy add that additional trauma to their lives? Being 22 explains a lot. My oldest is 23 and we have done a lot of counseling to make sure he doesn't end up like this. My life is black and white, I reaped whatever horrible things I have done, I own it. What did my kids do, or extended family do? I AM a recovering abuser. There is no were. I continue to make daily choices to go against my first inclination when angry, disappointed or hurt. It will be a lifetime struggle, just as with any person recovering from the destructive behaviors and choices. I am not the OP but will answer.... Like I said before-nobody deserves to be cheated on-or abused..and therefore, not even you, BNB, and not especially your children. I don't know your H, nor you. But it seems that your H did not know what the right thing to do with the abuse that you inflicted upon your loved ones. He could have divorced you and taken your kids away from you and had you jailed and declared an unfit mother-instead he sought "comfort" in another woman's arms. Affairs are selfish acts-it is done irrespective of the spouses, nor the children in the naive or stupid notion, perhaps , that it can be kept under wraps. BUT, I bet, if your grown children would venture to see your abuse and his cheating from their father's perspective they would come to understand,without condoning it ,why he cheated...
Holding-On Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 Hello, allow me to introduce myself, I am sub human BNB. I am a recovering physical, mental and emotional abuser, and I deserve to be cheated on. And my children deserved the fallout that happened because my H chose to cheat on me instead of have me arrested, committed or divorce me. Your thoughts of what should happen to me and other like me, doesn't include the fallout to our children, how do you deal with that in your rationale? You have yet to answer that question. There is never an exception to integrity. Er.. sorry for the t/j.. but wouldn't there have been fallout to your children if your husband had chosen to divorce, commit or arrest you? And wasn't there fallout when you (hypothetically or otherwise, I'm not sure here), chose to abuse him?? If you are divorced by him... your kids will have to know. If you are committed by him.... your kids will figure it out (where's Mom??) If you are arrested by the police... your kids will see that Those are all CONCRETE actions your children will see. If he has sex with another person.. it is up to YOU how much fallout there is..(unless you have a OP who is a bunny boiler - again I don't know the background to your story so I'm being hypothetical here). Because, if he cheats, YOU have choices at that point that you find out... you can say, okay, I've been a complete jerk, some of this is me and go to MC and well gee, then there would be no visible fallout to your kids right? so the fallout is self created
tami-chan Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 Er.. sorry for the t/j.. but wouldn't there have been fallout to your children if your husband had chosen to divorce, commit or arrest you? And wasn't there fallout when you (hypothetically or otherwise, I'm not sure here), chose to abuse him?? If you are divorced by him... your kids will have to know. If you are committed by him.... your kids will figure it out (where's Mom??) If you are arrested by the police... your kids will see that Those are all CONCRETE actions your children will see. If he has sex with another person.. it is up to YOU how much fallout there is..(unless you have a OP who is a bunny boiler - again I don't know the background to your story so I'm being hypothetical here). Because, if he cheats, YOU have choices at that point that you find out... you can say, okay, I've been a complete jerk, some of this is me and go to MC and well gee, then there would be no visible fallout to your kids right? so the fallout is self created How devastating to lose your mother to the system....how devastating to see your mother carted off hand-cuffed in a police car.... Good points, holding on....thanks!
bentnotbroken Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 Er.. sorry for the t/j.. but wouldn't there have been fallout to your children if your husband had chosen to divorce, commit or arrest you? And wasn't there fallout when you (hypothetically or otherwise, I'm not sure here), chose to abuse him?? If you are divorced by him... your kids will have to know. If you are committed by him.... your kids will figure it out (where's Mom??) If you are arrested by the police... your kids will see that Those are all CONCRETE actions your children will see. If he has sex with another person.. it is up to YOU how much fallout there is..(unless you have a OP who is a bunny boiler - again I don't know the background to your story so I'm being hypothetical here). Because, if he cheats, YOU have choices at that point that you find out... you can say, okay, I've been a complete jerk, some of this is me and go to MC and well gee, then there would be no visible fallout to your kids right? so the fallout is self created Not sure if she is a bunny boiler but she has some major issues that included my children after d-day.....way after d-day. And as far as being committed or arrested, I believe that I would have been diagnosed sooner and in therapy sooner. I don't think Mr. Messy could have known anymore than I did. But he used that as an excuse to cheat. My question was and maybe to some extent I still wonder, why if you felt you I was so horrible as a mother and a wife, you would leave the children(his children) in the care of a woman who was that way. Why would you leave them with me in such a depressed state that I couldn't even get out of bed to go on trips with the ow. Why would you leave them with me, when he knew about the suicidal thoughts and letters. I had started to prepare him for taking care of them alone. He didn't know what they were allergic to, what their schedule was, who their teachers were or even what they liked for lunch. That's the thought process I have trouble with. Have me arrested, I get help. Have me committed, I get help. Divorce me, I may or may not get help....I don't know. But I do know that you would have the respect of your family and friends, especially your children. The children, especially the youngest, was used to cover the affair. The oldest saw him and ow out together and kept it inside. It isn't up to me to cover his azz for any of his actions. He had the affair. You are right the fallout was created. I accept my actions and I don't expect him to explain it, cover it or lie about it to anyone. I have no intention of doing any of that for him. I am working on healing with my children and thank God it is going well. They understand, thanks to the counselor working with them to explain the things going on in my body and mind. Doesn't minimize the affect, but it does give us a basis to work from. Mr. Messy helped raise the children with a certain moral code where adultery is inexcusable, so now you see their conflict with him, as this along with his words about them seems to have had the same affect as the physically abuse. The scars are there. As a diagnosed NPD, he still places on everyone but himself.
Devil Inside Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 to cheating.. that's if one of the spouse (he or she) was/is abusive. For example: Husband was abusive to wife and would slap her once in while. She cheats on him for a long time and dumps husband for OM. He deserved it for being abusive. Same goes vice-versa. I'd be willing to say that there may be less sympathy for the BS in this situation.
tami-chan Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 ... As a diagnosed NPD, he still places on everyone but himself. Ahh...makes sense, an NPD....so he, TOO, has a chemical imbalance-you both have a perfectly good explanation for your actions. Has your grown kids come to understand that and perhaps forgive him, like they have you?
bentnotbroken Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 Ahh...makes sense, an NPD....so he, TOO, has a chemical imbalance-you both have a perfectly good explanation for your actions. Has your grown kids come to understand that and perhaps forgive him, like they have you? There is no perfect or good explanation. I would have to do more research, but what I read didn't say anything about NPD being a chemical imbalance. Maybe it did and I missed it, I will read again. Neither behavior was acceptable or excused. But no the children are still have issues with hm because he has not apologized, excepted responsibility, worked on this issues(of course he has none and everyone else is the reason he makes the decisions he has)and if they appreciated him and what he did more, they could get along. I don't know if they have forgiven him...that's between them and God. They are old enough to understand what their responsibility to their own relationship with God requires. Only one is legally an adult, the other late teens.
tami-chan Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 There is no perfect or good explanation. I would have to do more research, but what I read didn't say anything about NPD being a chemical imbalance. Maybe it did and I missed it, I will read again. Neither behavior was acceptable or excused. But no the children are still have issues with hm because he has not apologized, excepted responsibility, worked on this issues(of course he has none and everyone else is the reason he makes the decisions he has)and if they appreciated him and what he did more, they could get along. I don't know if they have forgiven him...that's between them and God. They are old enough to understand what their responsibility to their own relationship with God requires. Only one is legally an adult, the other late teens. You are right, of course. I am pretty sure given that you have this chemical imbalance, you must have studied this. I believe CW is that NPD is a personality disorder and their triggers are unlikely chemical imbalances(meaning, not dependent upon hormonal, sugar, etc. cycles). Although I read somewhere some DO (not enough to count) respond to a chemical intervention (ibuproprion, I believe it was). That is not to say, however, that there are those who do not believe that there is a third factor in what causes NPD-perhaps, a group of "errant" genes. I'm using "errant" loosely. I guess, the jury is still out. According to many studies there is a vague connection to Serotonin...there is just too little known about the biochemistry of NPDs at this point, but it IS possible, is it not? Bottom line is, anything can be explained, excused, reasoned, justified, rationalized...at some point where does one draw the line and stop being the victim and take responsibility and start the healing process for one's own self and for the loved ones that were affected?
bentnotbroken Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 You are right, of course. I am pretty sure given that you have this chemical imbalance, you must have studied this. I believe CW is that NPD is a personality disorder and their triggers are unlikely chemical imbalances(meaning, not dependent upon hormonal, sugar, etc. cycles). Although I read somewhere some DO (not enough to count) respond to a chemical intervention (ibuproprion, I believe it was). That is not to say, however, that there are those who do not believe that there is a third factor in what causes NPD-perhaps, a group of "errant" genes. I'm using "errant" loosely. I guess, the jury is still out. According to many studies there is a vague connection to Serotonin...there is just too little known about the biochemistry of NPDs at this point, but it IS possible, is it not? Bottom line is, anything can be explained, excused, reasoned, justified, rationalized...at some point where does one draw the line and stop being the victim and take responsibility and start the healing process for one's own self and for the loved ones that were affected? I have done very little research on biochemical side of pesonalities, no more than a couple of classes. I think I said earlier, I just don't know I would have to do more research. I agree we all have to take that responsibilty, for me it will require the rest of my life to face, analyze and understand all the dynamics of what makes me...me. When he does that, I am sure the kids will give him the shot he thinks he deserves now without doing any work.
Dexter Morgan Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 If you BECOME an abuser, she might, if she had not by then learned there are other ways to cope with or leave an abusive relationship. I was referring to the excuse to cheat in her prior relationships, and if I would have to put up with excuses in a current relationship.
tami-chan Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 I was referring to the excuse to cheat in her prior relationships, and if I would have to put up with excuses in a current relationship. you see, to you- ABUSE is just an excuse to cheat....to others it is a REASON to seek comfort in another-many EAs happen because of abuse at home, I think.
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