maynicholas Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 I have FINALLY met the most wonderful man! I can honestly say I have never felt so happy with someone. After years of dysfunctional relationships I have finally realized what a good, healthy, & caring relationship should be like. (we are both 32 fwiw) He was married & divorced within 4 months 2 years ago. He had been with her for 4 years prior to their marriage and she left him 4 months after they were married. She was having an affair. It was a very painful experience for him. I am so sad for him that he had to experience such heartache. I have never been married and absolutely plan to marry someday. I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that he is the man I want to spend the rest of my life with. We have discussed the issue of whether or not he thinks he will ever remarry. He says he doesn't think so, but to please, please, please not give up on him yet. I have no intention of giving up on him, but I also don't want to be unrealistic. He shows many signs of being open to remarriage and knows how much it means to me. The only reason I am slightly scared is because I spent 11 years with a guy who said he would never be married and I finally had to believe him and leave. I believed he would eventually change his mind. (looking back, I don't know why I wanted to marry him because our relationship was so dysfunctional) I will not push him in any way. I want to make sure he feels completely comfortable and secure in our relationship. Do any of you have similar experiences as a divorcee that you can share with me so I can best understand how he feels?
carhill Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 He says he doesn't think soHis truth. Accept it Everything subsequent is merely blabla to keep you interested. He was never really married. The marriage could have easily been annulled due to fraud (infidelity and short time married). More precisely, the betrayal damaged him. Also, he is not telling you the whole story. No one ever does. Her truth, his truth and the real truth. You've heard his truth. Accept it as such. I'm in the middle of a divorce, twice the age when he was married, and have said on numerous occasions that I have no fear of marriage. Fear of a certain subset of the female species, definitely IMO, set a quiet timeline and watch his actions. Be clear about what you want, in general, not making demands on him. Be specific. "I see myself getting married and having children; how do you feel about that?", as an example. Even couched as a question, it clearly states your desires for the future. That future is not required to include him. It is your choice. That's his part of acceptance
Author maynicholas Posted October 19, 2009 Author Posted October 19, 2009 A couple of months. Please don't lambaste me saying there is no way I can be so sure at this point. I do know. I am more sure about this than anything I have ever been in my life. We have maturely discussed everything that a couple should when considering a future together from religion, child rearing, the type of marriage, division of housework, where we would want to eventually raise a family to finances and saving for retirement. We have both been 100% emotionally open about our feeling, hopes & fears regarding this relationship. You know how you can feel in your gut when someone isn't being completely open about themselves? There is none of that. We have both been open & allowed ourselves to be completely vulnerable about our feelings here. fwiw- my parents met & were married within 6 months and have been happily married for 35 years. His parents had a similar experience.
Author maynicholas Posted October 19, 2009 Author Posted October 19, 2009 His truth. Accept it Everything subsequent is merely blabla to keep you interested. He was never really married. The marriage could have easily been annulled due to fraud (infidelity and short time married). More precisely, the betrayal damaged him. Also, he is not telling you the whole story. No one ever does. Her truth, his truth and the real truth. You've heard his truth. Accept it as such. Annulment is not legal in our state. I asked him the same thing. Not that it matters. She actually had to pay him because he was able to prove infidelity.
carhill Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Remember, your parents and his parents are of a different generation. Totally different. IMO, this is one of those little signposts you should be aware of, going forward. I missed some of those signposts, indicative of basic personality traits that would become more pronounced during my now nine year marriage, and now am paying the price for missing them. IMO, at this early juncture, I'd enjoy the here and now and re-visit this issue in another 6-8 months. At 32, both of you should know what you want. Apparently you have communicated this well. If you don't see affirmative action from him at that point, I'd seriously reconsider his words of 'don't give up on him'. You will become emotionally attached and it will be difficult to enforce the boundary at that point. Beware.
Author maynicholas Posted October 19, 2009 Author Posted October 19, 2009 Yes, I suppose that is all I can do at this point. I have asked him if he plans on getting premarital counseling if he does remarry and he says absolutely. I think it would be a great idea. I will just have to ride this out I guess. I am guessing it is a good sign that he is eager to meet my father and spend some quality time alone with him. He said he thinks it is important when you are considering making someone family. He has already met my mother and she thinks he is wonderful. We are trying to arrange a time for me to meet his family, but they are much farther away than my family. Thanks for the advice. Any more is still welcome.
carhill Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 One boundary I'd suggest: Don't live together unless or until you're married.
Lucky_One Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 I would be afraid that, after only a few months of dating, all the talk of marriage and premarital counselling with a man who is afraid of remarriage would really scare a guy off. I can't even imagine discussing all of the topics you have said you have discussed at such an early stage!!
carhill Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 That's a really good point.... Think about it. If they're on the same page (this is the concept of timing), then such discussions of generalities can be healthy. Hearing opinion and feeling and finding common ground can be create a positive environment to move forward, augmented by each partner's confidence in the other to communicate. Thoughts?
Author maynicholas Posted October 19, 2009 Author Posted October 19, 2009 "One boundary I'd suggest: Don't live together unless or until you're married. " That is funny! We actually already discussed this and both agree we will not live with someone again until we are married to that person. Only exception is during engagement with impending wedding date already set (as in within a month or 2 of the wedding).
Author maynicholas Posted October 19, 2009 Author Posted October 19, 2009 I would be afraid that, after only a few months of dating, all the talk of marriage and premarital counselling with a man who is afraid of remarriage would really scare a guy off. I can't even imagine discussing all of the topics you have said you have discussed at such an early stage!! I would think so too, but it just feels natural to discuss these things. It is not all me bringing this stuff up. It just it something that evolves in the course of our discussions about random things. We are feeling each other out.
Lucky_One Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 That's a really good point.... Think about it. If they're on the same page (this is the concept of timing), then such discussions of generalities can be healthy. Hearing opinion and feeling and finding common ground can be create a positive environment to move forward, augmented by each partner's confidence in the other to communicate. Thoughts? I can agree with discussion of generalities. Those are hugely important in finding out about the inner workings of someone you are interested in. But I would be leery of generalities turning into personal-alities; it's one thing to discuss whether having children prior to marriage is advisable and another to discuss whether OUR having children is advisable for US. He has already said point-blank that he doubts he would ever remarry; whether or not he is still thrilled to date the OP isn't the point. The point is that he already has in his head that HER desired end result isn't HIS desired end result. Him not wanting her to give up on their dating is totally understandable; he enjoys her company and wants to keep seeing her. OP, I would just try to keep your enthusiasm for marriage out of the getting-to-know-each-other stage of the honeymoon months of dating. Date for a minimum of 4 seasons before you start rushing into thoughts of permanency.
sumdude Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 I am in a very similar situation as your BF. I was with my ex for 7 1/2 years. We were married less than 2 years before she suddenly left me and though I'm not 100% certain, there was some sort of affair. She did marry the guy less than a year after we split. It's been almost 3 years since she left and over 2 since the divorce was legally finalized. I'm just now starting too feel like I'm well along recovering from the lies, stress and betrayal. Starting to imagine being in a committed relationship. Marriage though? I can't say right now if I'll marry again. If the right person came along at the right time.. well anything's possible but there's no way I'd rush into anything. From what you posted it sounds like he's a few months behind me in the healing. You'll have to be patient and low key about things for a while.
carhill Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 I would counsel giving the man the benefit of time and intimacy to change his mind about marriage, but not unlimited time and unlimited intimacy. To me, such an altar is an unhealthy one to be kneeling at. I've seen a few instances from my personal life of such dynamics going on for years with no resolution and can't say that I saw it as healthy at all. It presumably worked for the participants, which reinforces the concept of their path being different from my own.
Author maynicholas Posted October 19, 2009 Author Posted October 19, 2009 I appreciate the insight. I will say this though. I disliked when he said at one point that nice guys finish last. You know what? Nice girls sometimes finish last too. Some men go after challenging b**chy women (which I think is the equivalent to women going after bad boys) and wonder why it never works out. By the time they get to a good woman they can be so emotionally damaged and scared it can cause them to hold back waiting for this good woman to become one of the 'bad' ones. In this case all I can do is be loving and supportive and allow him to see who I really am- and that good women really do exist He is a good and honorable man and I don't want to lose him because I pressured him in anyway. I will just have to be patient.
carhill Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 What would you do if he wasn't damaged from his ex cheating on him and was steaming full speed ahead towards commitment and marriage? Psychology is an interesting study The more I hear, the more my sonar is starting to ping. Others will reassure you I'm wrong. I went back and read your history and my comments. I'll support patience....
Sam Spade Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 I'd say that maybe one good test is finding out how does he feel about children. From my personal point of view on marriage, if I was married and divorced - but with kids - I would never, ever consider a second marriage, regardless of what wonderful woman I meet. Since he has no kids and really wasn't married that long to begin with, that's not necessarily a lost cause.
Author maynicholas Posted October 19, 2009 Author Posted October 19, 2009 What would you do if he wasn't damaged from his ex cheating on him and was steaming full speed ahead towards commitment and marriage? Psychology is an interesting study The more I hear, the more my sonar is starting to ping. Others will reassure you I'm wrong. I went back and read your history and my comments. I'll support patience.... What do you mean by this?
carhill Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Reflect upon your past threads (which are a great journal btw) and see how your history relates to your current dynamic. I sense some of the battle you're fighting here, partly with yourself. That is why I modified my advice in the direction of supporting patience, rather than merely erecting a boundary with a timeline. Patience is a more subjective dynamic and I feel your history supports it. Best wishes
Author maynicholas Posted October 19, 2009 Author Posted October 19, 2009 I sense some of the battle you're fighting here, partly with yourself. What battle is this? I am really curious. As a fish in water I don't know it's water. What are you seeing that I have been missing? It would be really helpful to hear.
carhill Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 You're trying to change your style in relationships, based on my readings. You're trying something new but the old tugs at you. TBH, IMO it's the process by which you discover those changes which is the healthy and productive journey, not someone merely posting a sign in front of you. Patience is a virtue
Author maynicholas Posted October 19, 2009 Author Posted October 19, 2009 You're trying to change your style in relationships, based on my readings. You're trying something new but the old tugs at you. TBH, IMO it's the process by which you discover those changes which is the healthy and productive journey, not someone merely posting a sign in front of you. Patience is a virtue Thanks for that Carhill. I am trying to change, but yes. That old fear of rejection tugs at me to the point where I over think and look for signs that tell me to jump ship before I find myself sitting on that old couch being presented with a diamond that wasn't a proposal. I had too much patience with that guy, but also pushed too hard. Healthy patience is a virtue I need help with.
carhill Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 The cool part is you can walk that path independent of any person; they merely benefit from your journey. Remember the part about timelines. Our MC used that word a lot. Another word he used a lot was 'acceptance'.
sumdude Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 That old fear of rejection tugs at me to the point where I over think and look for signs that tell me to jump ship before I find myself sitting on that old couch being presented with a diamond that wasn't a proposal. I didn't follow your other threads.. but.. you might know how your man feels then. Imagine the rejection he faced from a woman he promised his life to.
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