dreamergrl Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 The only issue I was addressing was the delay in contact issue and her not waiting for him. She's right not to wait for him. She didn't know he was sick, and she wasn't going to tie up feelings for him. Sure she was excited about the prospect, but she gave it a time limit. What they did on their previous dates I had not considered. However, they were both playing the "i like you and you like me" game. (If you want to look at it that way.) It stopped for Lishy when a real want was interfered with... the want of the guy to take the initiative. She chose not to wait for him because of "game playing", she said so herself. But she's playing a game. That is completely hypocritical. Especially when he had a valid reason for not calling. I'm not going to be like "He has till Thursday, no matter what". I understand that people have lives and things come up. Her reasons was "I don't want a guy who plays games, but I am allowed to play games".
tinktronik Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 You can change what you believe in. You don't have to, that is not what I'm saying, but if you notice that you're having a hard time finding a guy because you let him go for doing exactly what you are doing, you might want to change your perspective. It does when she's complaining about a game being played with her back. I look at it as she is wasting another person's time by expecting more then she's willing to give. And what would you expect if you invited them over on the second date? Your logic applies to inviting them over period. Would you want a guy you barely know in your home? I'm not judging, because I've made that mistake, but as I've learned, even if sex isn't offered up front, many guys assume that as an invitation. I would expect absolutely nothing AT ALL! That's just it, this whole sleeping with people you don't really know is crazy. How are you ever going to get to know a person if your spending your time concentrating on their **** instead of their heart or their passions or their beliefs, ect.? If the guy expects sex on the second date, that's HIS problem. And if he has a problem with that then he's not the guy for me, it's just another way of ruling them out of the batch. If he expects sex and it's a problem that I invited him over and then did not sleep with him, then he's ruled me out... It's a win/win. I have had plenty of friends over after not knowing them for long so why not somebody I've had dinner and a movie with?
tinktronik Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 She chose not to wait for him because of "game playing", she said so herself. But she's playing a game. That is completely hypocritical. Especially when he had a valid reason for not calling. I'm not going to be like "He has till Thursday, no matter what". I understand that people have lives and things come up. Her reasons was "I don't want a guy who plays games, but I am allowed to play games". I disagree, this was about Lishy needing to have a guy that communicates his interest for her clearly in a timely manner and be in pursuit of her. Sometimes this just fits certainly personality types better than others. This sounds like a relationship need. Relationships in the beginning are about getting your needs met in that relationship, if they aren't met you should move on. Also, if a guy I was interested in didn't contact me for a week I would probably not see him again also. The real interest hasn't grown enough yet for it to be too relaxed.
Author Lishy Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 Tink is saying what I am thinking .... thanks Tink
tinktronik Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Tink is saying what I am thinking .... thanks Tink You welcome, Lishy. You don't need to speak at all.... I'll just do it for you! :lmao: I do this to my SO all the time.
Ms. Joolie Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 we're just saying that a good chance could be lost because of your 'preferences' to be wooed and not stick your neck out for something. you're saying it like its 100% his loss, and i'm sure lishy is lovely, but it could also be her loss too. (no offence Lishy, just using your post as example) I know she is happy with her decision not to call him, and I can only respect that. But i cant help feeling 'he who dares wins' applies just as much to women in this day and age. 'faint heart ne'er won fair man' etc. I agree. It was both their "loss". Eh, but not really. You don't lose what you don't have. Sure we gain experience and/or enrichment with the people that we come in contact with, but it's nothing to cry about for people who weren't interested anyway. As for "faint heart ne'er won a fair man".... I believe it's true. But we woman, in this day and age, are pioneers. We're breaking the boundaries from what was expected of us in the old days. My point being that even though many women still want men to take the initiative, that doesn't mean we are of faint heart, on the contrary, we are asserting ourselves.
dreamergrl Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I would expect absolutely nothing AT ALL! That's just it, this whole sleeping with people you don't really know is crazy. How are you ever going to get to know a person if your spending your time concentrating on their **** instead of their heart or their passions or their beliefs, ect.? I didn't say she should have slept with him. But she sure had no bad thoughts about him continuing to try to sleep with her. After she said no. If the guy expects sex on the second date, that's HIS problem. And if he has a problem with that then he's not the guy for me, it's just another way of ruling them out of the batch. If he expects sex and it's a problem that I invited him over and then did not sleep with him, then he's ruled me out... It's a win/win. But SHE invited him over. That would not have been an issue should she have not invited him over. Obviously he wasn't expecting it, as he did call. After he got done being sick. I have had plenty of friends over after not knowing them for long so why not somebody I've had dinner and a movie with? A friend. Not a date. I disagree, this was about Lishy needing to have a guy that communicates his interest for her clearly in a timely manner and be in pursuit of her. Sometimes this just fits certainly personality types better than others. This sounds like a relationship need. Relationships in the beginning are about getting your needs met in that relationship, if they aren't met you should move on. Also, if a guy I was interested in didn't contact me for a week I would probably not see him again also. The real interest hasn't grown enough yet for it to be too relaxed. Perhaps I am just more understanding and am not so demanding where I expect a call in a two day time line, when the guy is not aware of a personal set of 'rules'. Two dates, how is the guy suppose to know her needs? How can he know to meet them?
dreamergrl Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I agree. It was both their "loss". Eh, but not really. You don't lose what you don't have. Sure we gain experience and/or enrichment with the people that we come in contact with, but it's nothing to cry about for people who weren't interested anyway. As for "faint heart ne'er won a fair man".... I believe it's true. But we woman, in this day and age, are pioneers. We're breaking the boundaries from what was expected of us in the old days. My point being that even though many women still want men to take the initiative, that doesn't mean we are of faint heart, on the contrary, we are asserting ourselves. We've already broken many boundaries, where as it doesn't surprise me that men would like us to make the initiative as well.
tinktronik Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I didn't say she should have slept with him. But she sure had no bad thoughts about him continuing to try to sleep with her. After she said no. Okay? And? Lishy personally DID NOT have a problem with it. Just because you would have so what. She clarified that she was not interested in sex by a continued no thanks. But SHE invited him over. That would not have been an issue should she have not invited him over. Obviously he wasn't expecting it, as he did call. After he got done being sick. Did he have an insane ear infection in both ears? Did his lips swell up so much that he could not speak? If not these are all signals that he is not that into you. A friend. Not a date. I don't personally see much of a difference in the two. Also, if a guy I was interested in didn't contact me for a week I would probably not see him again also. The real interest hasn't grown enough yet for it to be too relaxed. Perhaps I am just more understanding and am not so demanding where I expect a call in a two day time line, when the guy is not aware of a personal set of 'rules'. Two dates, how is the guy suppose to know her needs? How can he know to meet them? I guy who is attentive and interested in meeting her needs would have called before the week was up. Period. He would have.
Ms. Joolie Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 We've already broken many boundaries, where as it doesn't surprise me that men would like us to make the initiative as well. In regarding the establishment of a relationship, I personally require the man to take the initiative in that. My reason being because I want his heart to be in the relationship. He has to choose the relationship. The relationship he chooses with me dictates what I give in that relationship.
dreamergrl Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 In regarding the establishment of a relationship, I personally require the man to take the initiative in that. My reason being because I want his heart to be in the relationship. He has to choose the relationship. The relationship he chooses with me dictates what I give in that relationship. And he is just going to magically know your heart is in it? Times have changed.
Author Lishy Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 I am a girl who needs to be persued, I am not a persuer and when I have done so in the past it has always left a nasty taste in my mouth and never turned out in my favour, that is solely because if he was interested, he would have let me know and so now I take no contact as no interest!
tinktronik Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 And he is just going to magically know your heart is in it? Times have changed. But Dreamer, they have not changed across the board. I think we are about the same age and you and I have very, very different expectations of a relationship life. Perhaps they have changed for some but not others. If you don't need a guy who will call within a week then your standards are more relaxed and you can find a guy who has those relaxed standards. There are plenty of guys out there who's standards are not so relaxed and perhaps they would be a better fit for Lishy.
dreamergrl Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Did he have an insane ear infection in both ears? Did his lips swell up so much that he could not speak? If not these are all signals that he is not that into you. You've never felt up to talking to someone because your sick? Is your main priority, when sick, to make sure the guy you went out with twice gets his demands and needs met? I don't personally see much of a difference in the two. Friend = someone you want to spend time with with no romantic interest Date = you have interest in pursuing them for more then a platonic reason. A friend doesn't try to sleep with you. I guy who is attentive and interested in meeting her needs would have called before the week was up. Period. He would have. Two dates, a bit early to meet demands and needs. His needs may have been to have her show interest, but he may have let that go and called her.
Ms. Joolie Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 And he is just going to magically know your heart is in it? Times have changed. In regard to establishing a relationship, he will know my heart is in it if I say yes to his date proposals. It was because of his interest in me that he asked me out. He was right to pick up on my interest in him and ask me out. Or he was right to follow his own interest and test my own... by ASKING ME OUT.
dreamergrl Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I am a girl who needs to be persued, I am not a persuer and when I have done so in the past it has always left a nasty taste in my mouth and never turned out in my favour, that is solely because if he was interested, he would have let me know and so now I take no contact as no interest! He called you in less then a week. He perused you for a second date. Give me a break. But Dreamer, they have not changed across the board. I think we are about the same age and you and I have very, very different expectations of a relationship life. Perhaps they have changed for some but not others. I've learned not to expect a guy to jump for me after two dates. I've learned that people have other things going on in their lives. I don't have expectations of a guy that I'm not willing to give back. If you don't need a guy who will call within a week then your standards are more relaxed and you can find a guy who has those relaxed standards. There are plenty of guys out there who's standards are not so relaxed and perhaps they would be a better fit for Lishy. He did call her within a week. Six days is a day less then a week. I don't see how that is so relaxed.
Malenfant Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 As for "faint heart ne'er won a fair man".... I believe it's true. But we woman, in this day and age, are pioneers. We're breaking the boundaries from what was expected of us in the old days. My point being that even though many women still want men to take the initiative, that doesn't mean we are of faint heart, on the contrary, we are asserting ourselves. the 'faint heart' as i'm sure you know, was just a re-hash of the old quote 'faint heart ne'er won fair maid' and i was only using it to highlight my point. I dont think for one moment that a woman who does not pursue a man neccessarily has a faint heart, but according to your preferences a man who doesnt pursue would be deemed to have a faint heart, so that is my point. I just think its strange how most women want equality, yet certain aspects of the male/female divide are still expected. It seems though that only those aspects which benefit the woman are still wanted by the women! Like paying for dinner, making the moves etc. Obviously it works in our favour but i dont really think its fair on the men. if we want to keep some of the old fashioned stereotypes, surely we should expect to keep some of the bad ones as well? its an interesting sociological topic i think.
Johnny M Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 It seems though that only those aspects which benefit the woman are still wanted by the women! Like paying for dinner, making the moves etc. I'm surprised you find this surprising. People are naturally selfish. So of course women will try to hang on to these vestiges of a bygone era. It's so much easier to sit back and let men chase them, impress them, show them a good time, etc. But eventually they'll have to give up their "female privileges" because men are starting to smarten up and reject this whole romantic/chivalrous nonsense. The only guys I know who still play the chase game are the desperate loser types. Desirable guys don't want - and don't need - to chase women.
Malenfant Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 I'm surprised you find this surprising. People are naturally selfish. So of course women will try to hang on to these vestiges of a bygone era. It's so much easier to sit back and let men chase them, impress them, show them a good time, etc. But eventually they'll have to give up their "female privileges" because men are starting to smarten up and reject this whole romantic/chivalrous nonsense. The only guys I know who still play the chase game are the desperate loser types. Desirable guys don't want - and don't need - to chase women. haha, well...i'm not really surprised, more disappointed really. I just think that ultimately people are missing out on good relationships because of this old fashioned ethic. also, you lay the ground rules early on in a relationship and far too many times we hear stories of women spoilt with gifts etc. early on in the relationship thinking this is how it will always be and having tantrums when they dont get their way. tis a shame i think.
TheLoneSock Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) I am a girl who needs to be persued, I am not a persuer and when I have done so in the past it has always left a nasty taste in my mouth and never turned out in my favour. Translation: I am afraid and refuse to put myself out there. I tried it once or twice and gave up on it all together when it didn't work. You're lucky you're not a guy Lishy. You don't handle rejection well. that is solely because if he was interested, he would have let me know He called you. He did show interest. He just didn't do it right away like an excited puppy dog. The anxiety you felt all week waiting for him to call you made you feel powerless, hence the 'nasty taste' in your mouth. and so now I take no contact as no interest! You NC'd him too. Only you did it deliberately, he was probably just busy. Some of the women on this board sound like they're 17 and following rules they read in some dating manual written by a woman who ended up alone anyway, surrounded by her cats. dreamergrl is spot on with almost everything she has had to say in this thread. People speak of 'relaxed standards' as if they are lower standards, and will therefore net less of a catch in the end. That's nothing but a cop out. Edited October 29, 2009 by TheLoneSock typo
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