dreamergrl Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 No, I am not playing a game at all .... I dont call men first and never will. Any guy I have ever had a relationship with has made it clear he is interested with no games attached. I have dealt with guys who are not that interested and all I get is hurt. That is why I have my own set of rules now. Yes he could have been ill but what kind of illness stops you getting in contact with someone you are interested in? As far as he told me he had a cold, he never mentioned that his fingers froze off or that he was in hospital! I am not up for any more heartbreak right now so I am going to try my hardest to stay away from any game players for now! Self preservation! I think by refusing to make contact is playing games. Rules like that are a game. If I'm sick, I sound terrible, and I most certainly don't want a guy who I just started seeing to hear me at my worse. And if I'm sick, my priority is getting well. And you are the one who invited him over for the night on the second date, which left the door wide open for him to attempt sex. I've been there and made that mistake. Yet you were all for calling him respectful even though he attempted sex after being told no, a few times at that. You defended him in that aspect, but now you are on him for not calling in the time frame of your rules. In his mind, he probably thought you were playing a game... because an at home second date stay over doesn't come across as a pajama party. Maybe in that sense you weren't playing a game, but how is he to know?
dreamergrl Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 but thats my point! how is a man supposed to know how to act when women are generally so difficult to fathom. I agree with this. The fact that Lishy had him over on the second date - in a lot of guys minds, that's an invite for sex. i'm a woman and even I can see why men have such a hard time. I wasnt making a 100% serious point about this, but I dont understand how anyone can expect men to know what to do when (judging by many posts on this site) women also do not know! I wasnt attacking the OP for her actions, I was just making a humourous observation about how women are, and considering I am one, I think i'm entitled! Agreed.
Ms. Joolie Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 but thats my point! how is a man supposed to know how to act when women are generally so difficult to fathom. i'm a woman and even I can see why men have such a hard time. I wasnt making a 100% serious point about this, but I dont understand how anyone can expect men to know what to do when (judging by many posts on this site) women also do not know! I wasnt attacking the OP for her actions, I was just making a humourous observation about how women are, and considering I am one, I think i'm entitled! I know you meant to make a light comment, but it really brings up something that I think is so important. It's not about women expecting men to act a certain way. It's about men being men, and acting on their best logic. According to this guy in question, he thought it best to not contact her for a week. Lishy did not agree with his decision, with his logic on this. This is not the type of guy Lishy wants. So his chances of dating her are dramatically lowered. So for the guy, if this is all part of his "not getting the girl" story, he needs to change the way he acts with women. Or maybe he just wasn't that interested. In that case, well, he lost out on Lishy.
tinktronik Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 but thats my point! how is a man supposed to know how to act when women are generally so difficult to fathom. i'm a woman and even I can see why men have such a hard time. I wasnt making a 100% serious point about this, but I dont understand how anyone can expect men to know what to do when (judging by many posts on this site) women also do not know! I wasnt attacking the OP for her actions, I was just making a humourous observation about how women are, and considering I am one, I think i'm entitled! Women are not a category, they are individual people with wants, needs and desires and requirements. There are no hard and fast rules because different people want different things. Women do know what they want, they just don't all want the same things and it either works to a good fit or it doesn't. This is all a part of the qualification process.
dreamergrl Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 I know you meant to make a light comment, but it really brings up something that I think is so important. It's not about women expecting men to act a certain way. It's about men being men, and acting on their best logic. According to this guy in question, he thought it best to not contact her for a week. Lishy did not agree with his decision, with his logic on this. This is not the type of guy Lishy wants. So his chances of dating her are dramatically lowered. So for the guy, if this is all part of his "not getting the girl" story, he needs to change the way he acts with women. Or maybe he just wasn't that interested. In that case, well, he lost out on Lishy. And who's to say that he wasn't sure if she was interested? She made no attempt to show interest. Why is it always just up to the guy? We ALL - MALE AND FEMALE question if someone is interested in us.
Malenfant Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Women are not a category, they are individual people with wants, needs and desires and requirements. There are no hard and fast rules because different people want different things. Women do know what they want, they just don't all want the same things and it either works to a good fit or it doesn't. This is all a part of the qualification process. I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not! I wasnt saying women dont know what they want, i was saying that sometimes women don't know what men want. especially when it comes to dating. otherwise why would there be so many posts by women along the lines of 'does he like me' , or 'whats he thinking' Women definately have the edge when it comes to obsessing about what the guy is thinking/feeling etc. people are just way too complex to 'know' how to approach instinctively, which is probably one of the reasons there are so many confused people in the world (including myself!)
Ms. Joolie Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 And who's to say that he wasn't sure if she was interested? She made no attempt to show interest. Why is it always just up to the guy? We ALL - MALE AND FEMALE question if someone is interested in us. Think of one male and one female. They like each other. They date a couple of times. You are right, they will probably both question the interest of the other. Who takes the initiative in developing the relationship is a personal preference. In Lishy's case, she wants the man to take the initiative. She wants the man to make the call and ask for the date. This is a preference. It's my preference, too. So with this preference, we expect the guy to take the lead. We expect the guy to be the first one to act upon his interest. All this guy had to do was keep contact with Lishy, and ask her out again. But he was sick and waited a whole week. Lishy is on the move. She's not waiting.
Malenfant Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 It's not about women expecting men to act a certain way. It's about men being men, and acting on their best logic. According to this guy in question, he thought it best to not contact her for a week. so all men are essentially the same then? if all men were just men then they would 'know' what to do? isnt that generalising? i know women like to have the monopoly on being complicated but men are also surprisingly varied. if a man said a comment like that about 'women being women' you would say he was being sexist. also, using the word 'logic' when it comes to feelings and instincts is never going to fit well!
dreamergrl Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Think of one male and one female. They like each other. They date a couple of times. You are right, they will probably both question the interest of the other. Who takes the initiative in developing the relationship is a personal preference. In Lishy's case, she wants the man to take the initiative. She wants the man to make the call and ask for the date. This is a preference. It's my preference, too. So with this preference, we expect the guy to take the lead. We expect the guy to be the first one to act upon his interest. All this guy had to do was keep contact with Lishy, and ask her out again. But he was sick and waited a whole week. Lishy is on the move. She's not waiting. It is fine to have preference. But the problem I see here is the fact that she had no issue defending him when he kept wanting to have sex. I don't find him 100% in the wrong there, because she did invite him to spend the night, and in most cases that is an invite for sex. Still, none of the less, when people proclaimed that he was just looking for a ONS she defended him. But when he's sick and doesn't call, and that violates her rules, it's not okay. It doesn't make sense. And again, inviting him over to spend the night, was most likely an invitation in his head for sex. What else would one think of a sleep over on the second date? She turned him down several times. He probably thought she was playing hard to get (A GAME). That could be what started it. I'd feel slightly different if the sleep over did not occur. But it did, and I think that's what started all this. And I'm speaking from experience. I've been there, done that.
Malenfant Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Who takes the initiative in developing the relationship is a personal preference. In Lishy's case, she wants the man to take the initiative. She wants the man to make the call and ask for the date. This is a preference. It's my preference, too. So with this preference, we expect the guy to take the lead. We expect the guy to be the first one to act upon his interest. All this guy had to do was keep contact with Lishy, and ask her out again. But he was sick and waited a whole week. Lishy is on the move. She's not waiting. we're just saying that a good chance could be lost because of your 'preferences' to be wooed and not stick your neck out for something. you're saying it like its 100% his loss, and i'm sure lishy is lovely, but it could also be her loss too. (no offence Lishy, just using your post as example) I know she is happy with her decision not to call him, and I can only respect that. But i cant help feeling 'he who dares wins' applies just as much to women in this day and age. 'faint heart ne'er won fair man' etc.
dreamergrl Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 we're just saying that a good chance could be lost because of your 'preferences' to be wooed and not stick your neck out for something. you're saying it like its 100% his loss, and i'm sure lishy is lovely, but it could also be her loss too. (no offence Lishy, just using your post as example) I know she is happy with her decision not to call him, and I can only respect that. But i cant help feeling 'he who dares wins' applies just as much to women in this day and age. 'faint heart ne'er won fair man' etc. Again, agreed. I don't get why everyone is all "It is his loss" when he did call, and within a week. Heaven forbid he didn't call in two days. Personally I think if you want contact in two days, you should be attempting correspondence as well.
Bejita463 Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) I am not into games and he obviously is Yeah. About that. A list of things you've said here, while not playing games: Oh and I defo will not contact him first! No way in a million years If he is interested I will know! I defo will not be contacting him first Side note on this one: How would you know he was interested if he was absolutely refusing to contact you for some reason unknown to you due to his wanting you to make the next call for said reason? That would be pretty arbitrary and silly, would it not? Oh, wait. I always remember that men like the chase I am not chasing a man and you will not convince me to.I have decided that if I do not hear from him by Thursday he will not be getting an answer or reply and I will take him off my FacebookEven though this stupid 3 day rule exists I agree with you, when you like someone you contact them. To be honest I wanted to text him that night but stopped myself It is such a waiting game but he has until Thursday then its game over! My pride will not let me ... I believe it is down to a man to persuewe will soon find out cos if I dont hear by tomorrow its end game anyway and he didnt get any sex!!Snooze and you lose!I dont call men first and never will.Part of my point here is that you do not need rules if you aren't playing a game. The other part is that when you make a game out of something, sometimes you lose. Are you really so interested in throwing the towel in? If so, whether he was a player or not, you are the one who's lost. Looking at this situation from the outside in, it looks to me like you are playing games more than it looks like he is. First he gets invited inside for what most guys would assume was for sex, given the timing, then he has these rules he has to follow upon leaving that he must instinctively follow to get a subsequent date. A rule you do not actually know he is aware of. Maybe he does not think he should still be chasing you at this point. Is it really so preposterous that he might have thought he was getting his chain jerked and you would call if you really were interested? That is of course, just my opinion. Edited October 28, 2009 by Bejita463
dreamergrl Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Yeah. About that. A list of things you've said here, while not playing games: Side note on this one: How would you know he was interested if he was absolutely refusing to contact you for some reason unknown to you due to his wanting you to make the next call for said reason? That would be pretty arbitrary and silly, would it not? Oh, wait. Part of my point here is that you do not need rules if you aren't playing a game. The other part is that when you make a game out of something, sometimes you lose. Are you really so interested in throwing the towel in? If so, whether he was a player or not, you are the one who's lost. Looking at this situation from the outside in, it looks to me like you are playing games more than it looks like he is. First he gets invited inside for what most guys would assume was for sex, given the timing, then he has these rules he has to follow upon leaving that he must instinctively follow to get a subsequent date. A rule you do not actually know he is aware of. Maybe he does not think he should still be chasing you at this point. Is it really so preposterous that he might have thought he was getting his chain jerked and you would call if you really were interested? That is of course, just my opinion. 100% Well Said!
Johnny M Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Haha, bejita....good job calling out a hypocrite on her BS. On a side note, whenever someone says that he/she is "not into playing games", it's usually a huge red flag suggesting that the exact opposite is true.
Author Lishy Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 Hmmmmmmmmmmmm .... yeah maybe I AM playing a game without even realising it! I still does not change the fact that I will not call a guy first! Thats just me and I have been burned too many times to change that rule! ps ... Bejita, you have too much time on your hands lol
dreamergrl Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Hmmmmmmmmmmmm .... yeah maybe I AM playing a game without even realising it! I still does not change the fact that I will not call a guy first! Thats just me and I have been burned too many times to change that rule! ps ... Bejita, you have too much time on your hands lol Lishy, you could miss out on a great guy. You started the game, then you complained about him playing a game. It was your second date as well... right? That's not calling him first even, it's returning the interest. Be prepared to lose out if you're going to play a game, and toss them when they play the game back.
Bejita463 Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Hmmmmmmmmmmmm .... yeah maybe I AM playing a game without even realising it! That is what I was trying to get you to see. It was less about pointing out hypocrisy than it was attempting to demonstrate a different perspective. I still does not change the fact that I will not call a guy first! Thats just me and I have been burned too many times to change that rule!I hold to my opinion that when you play games, you sometimes lose. In fact, I really like that line. I might signature it. ps ... Bejita, you have too much time on your hands lolIf you'd like, in the future I can dismiss half the thread by only reading part of it, then say something half-assed and lazy that doesn't end up helping you at all. It'd be easier. You're welcome by the way.
Author Lishy Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 Yeah yeah you made me see what I am doing BUT the problem is that I know I cant change it! I have to stand by what I believe in! And yes Bejita, I thank you for your time and effort and you did open my eyes, so thanks! x
tinktronik Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Hmmmmmmmmmmmm .... yeah maybe I AM playing a game without even realising it! I still does not change the fact that I will not call a guy first! Thats just me and I have been burned too many times to change that rule! ps ... Bejita, you have too much time on your hands lol Lishy, does it really matter if you are playing a "game"? You have certain standards, it's fine that you stick to them. It will eventually get YOU what YOU are looking for. Who cares if you are viewed as being "unconcerned" for the feelings of some guy you went out with twice. I would expect to know quite a bit about a person before I slept with them, like how they lived or for them to know how I lived, or if I was capable as hanging out without it being seen as misleading that I must be offering sex if I invite a guy to hang out at my place. If he expects sex, that's his expectation, it does not mean you are playing a game.
Ms. Joolie Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 so all men are essentially the same then? if all men were just men then they would 'know' what to do? isnt that generalising? i know women like to have the monopoly on being complicated but men are also surprisingly varied. if a man said a comment like that about 'women being women' you would say he was being sexist. also, using the word 'logic' when it comes to feelings and instincts is never going to fit well! It's about each one knowing what they want, whether male or female. I said logic because I guess I assume that personal feelings and instincts are part of that logic. Perhaps behavior would have been the better word. But we should know what we want. From our wants, we know what to do. If we don't know what to do, that causes problems. Maybe that guy wanted to wait a week, maybe he didn't. But it did interfere with Lishy's wants.
Author Lishy Posted October 28, 2009 Author Posted October 28, 2009 Oh I must add that I did not actually invite him to stay over, we just didnt want to end the night so I said he could come back to mine but I told him numerous times that it was not for sex and he was cool with it and he did not try to force himself on me when he tried he just tried to up the game a few times but as soon as I backed off he stopped Who lost out, me or him? Probably both of us cos he was lovely and I am a nice person so I guess we will never know
dreamergrl Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Yeah yeah you made me see what I am doing BUT the problem is that I know I cant change it! I have to stand by what I believe in! And yes Bejita, I thank you for your time and effort and you did open my eyes, so thanks! x You can change what you believe in. You don't have to, that is not what I'm saying, but if you notice that you're having a hard time finding a guy because you let him go for doing exactly what you are doing, you might want to change your perspective. Lishy, does it really matter if you are playing a "game"? You have certain standards, it's fine that you stick to them. It will eventually get YOU what YOU are looking for. Who cares if you are viewed as being "unconcerned" for the feelings of some guy you went out with twice. It does when she's complaining about a game being played with her back. I look at it as she is wasting another person's time by expecting more then she's willing to give. I would expect to know quite a bit about a person before I slept with them, like how they lived or for them to know how I lived, or if I was capable as hanging out without it being seen as misleading that I must be offering sex if I invite a guy to hang out at my place. If he expects sex, that's his expectation, it does not mean you are playing a game. And what would you expect if you invited them over on the second date? Your logic applies to inviting them over period. Would you want a guy you barely know in your home? I'm not judging, because I've made that mistake, but as I've learned, even if sex isn't offered up front, many guys assume that as an invitation.
Bejita463 Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Yeah yeah you made me see what I am doing BUT the problem is that I know I cant change it! I have to stand by what I believe in! There's nothing wrong with that. I don't agree with your methods, but a person cannot make an informed decision about their own behaviors if they are not even aware of what they are doing. It seemed pertinent enough to me to warrant pointing out. Anyway. Best of luck to you, however it is you decide to proceed.
Ms. Joolie Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 It is fine to have preference. But the problem I see here is the fact that she had no issue defending him when he kept wanting to have sex. I don't find him 100% in the wrong there, because she did invite him to spend the night, and in most cases that is an invite for sex. Still, none of the less, when people proclaimed that he was just looking for a ONS she defended him. But when he's sick and doesn't call, and that violates her rules, it's not okay. It doesn't make sense. And again, inviting him over to spend the night, was most likely an invitation in his head for sex. What else would one think of a sleep over on the second date? She turned him down several times. He probably thought she was playing hard to get (A GAME). That could be what started it. I'd feel slightly different if the sleep over did not occur. But it did, and I think that's what started all this. And I'm speaking from experience. I've been there, done that. The only issue I was addressing was the delay in contact issue and her not waiting for him. She's right not to wait for him. She didn't know he was sick, and she wasn't going to tie up feelings for him. Sure she was excited about the prospect, but she gave it a time limit. What they did on their previous dates I had not considered. However, they were both playing the "i like you and you like me" game. (If you want to look at it that way.) It stopped for Lishy when a real want was interfered with... the want of the guy to take the initiative.
dreamergrl Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 Oh I must add that I did not actually invite him to stay over, we just didnt want to end the night so I said he could come back to mine but I told him numerous times that it was not for sex and he was cool with it and he did not try to force himself on me when he tried he just tried to up the game a few times but as soon as I backed off he stopped Who lost out, me or him? Probably both of us cos he was lovely and I am a nice person so I guess we will never know You told him he could come back to your place. That is an invite. You let him stay. That is on you.
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