When to call it quits

[BetterThanThis]

I'm having an awful night and I really need some advice. It feels a bit strange posting this online, but I don't have a lot of close friends and they aren't going to be very helpful with this type of issue.

 

I've been married for ten years. Most of it has been quite good. Our fights have become less frequent and less severe over the years. I'd say we're pretty normal in that respect. We have great sex, we enjoy each other's company, and we share a number of interests.

 

Lately, my wife has been going out more frequently without me and getting drunk. She sometimes drives home when she shouldn't. Sometimes she is so bad that I can't wake her once she hits the bed. Tonight, she wrecked her car and doesn't remember what she hit. The damage is relatively minor, so she wasn't hurt.

 

Before tonight, she has mentioned that she is having trouble figuring out what she wants out of life. She said she has been thinking about having a baby. Yes, she said it like that. We have no kids now, and we both decided years ago that we didn't want any, so I got a vasectomy so she could get off of the pill.

 

Another thing I've been having trouble with is her dishonesty. She will often lie about fairly trivial things she did or didn't do. I have a pretty good sense of when someone is being dishonest with me, and the lies just didn't make sense a lot of times.

 

Tonight, I found out she was tested for STDs recently. I asked her if she had intimate contact with anyone. She said no. I asked a few more times and was told that she was raped a few months ago. The only other information I got was that it was at a friends house. She never told me and continued to have sex with me.

 

Sorry this is all over the place, but I'm really struggling right now. I love this woman to death, but I don't know if it makes sense to stay married to her when there is major problem with our relationship that she doesn't want to talk about. I'm angry that she would be alone with someone because I feel like cheating probably started before there was sex, whether she was willing to go that far with it or not. I'm also angry that she put my health at risk.

 

I guess I'm asking for advice because I don't know where to draw the line. I'm normally a fairly strong person when it comes to other areas of my life, but I've let relationships drive me to a dark place before deciding it was time to move on. The thing is this is a long-term marriage. I promised, she promised, we promised to be together forever. How do I consider my own feelings when I know she is hurting as well? At what point do I put my feelings first?

 

Sorry for a first post like this. I hope to talk to folks on a more positive note sometime, and I do realize this is selfish of me, but I appreciate your advice, experience, or even just your shoulder.

[giotto]

signs are not good... it's either a bad case of mid-life crisis (how old are you both) or she is having an affair... do you really believe she was raped? And she never mentioned it to you? She doesn't want to talk about it? You are her husband, for G sake! That's highly suspicious... also, exposing you to a possible STD is out of order. Getting drunk and driving under the influence? Oh boy... you need to have a serious conversation with your wife... and start snooping...

[Ronni_W]

If you believe that your wife was raped, you could call a rape crisis centre and ask for guidance as to how you can support your wife, what might be a good way to approach her, etc. That is a very traumatic experience, and she would need your compassion and patience. There can be a lot of shame, guilt and self-loathing, so her not being able to tell you is understandable -- it's common for rape victims to not come forward for some time, until they've been able to 'process' some of it.

 

If you think that she's having an affair...that one is MUCH more complicated.

Maybe start by checking the 'infidelity' links at MarriageBuilders.com (right-hand column under 'quick clicks'.) There are many other good articles and questionnaires, as well.

 

Best of luck.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Ronni_W

[Devil Inside]

Hey...that is a heck of a first post...sorry.

 

So it seems as if your wife is really in crisis. She is crying out for help. I think that you really need to find out what is going on with her...before taking any action.

 

It is completely possible that she was raped and didn't tell you. Going out and drinking may be a way of coping with the trauma of the whole thing. If it is true...how horrible. I know that you are upset that she would put herself in that situation...but really, if it is true, you need to be there for her now.

 

If it isn't...well that is a different story. She is out of control and she is going to have to work really hard to win back your trust.

 

I think you should go to a marriage counselor with her.

 

I'm sorry man...this is a heartbreaker either way.

[giotto]

Hey...that is a heck of a first post...sorry.

 

So it seems as if your wife is really in crisis. She is crying out for help. I think that you really need to find out what is going on with her...before taking any action.

 

It is completely possible that she was raped and didn't tell you. Going out and drinking may be a way of coping with the trauma of the whole thing. If it is true...how horrible. I know that you are upset that she would put herself in that situation...but really, if it is true, you need to be there for her now.

 

If it isn't...well that is a different story. She is out of control and she is going to have to work really hard to win back your trust.

 

I think you should go to a marriage counselor with her.

 

I'm sorry man...this is a heartbreaker either way.

 

yes, that's true, it could be that it's her way of coping with it if she has been raped... you need to talk to her, because, either way, she needs help.

[anne1707]

Either way, your wife is in need of counselling. Whether it is the trauma of rape or her life spiralling out of control through having an affair, the alcohol issue needs to be addressed before she ends up hurting herself or someone else through a car accident.

 

If she has been raped then she is possibly in a state of shock or denial and is losing herself in drink. If she has not told you then do not take that to heart - whatever she is dealing with is far worse and she does not know what to do. But she does need your support and love.

 

If she is having an affair then there are other problems to address but the counselling may help you BOTH decide whether you want the marriage or not.

[BetterThanThis]

We are both in our late 30s. We both had other relationships before we got married (not HS sweethearts or anything).

 

Right after she said she was raped, she said "it was my fault". This was apparently someone she knew/knows and felt comfortable being alone with him in his house. I do want to be sensitive if she was forced, but I'm not sure that matters to how it impacts our relationship. There was, in my mind, an inappropriate relationship for her to be in that situation in the first place.

 

We had a heart to heart a couple weeks ago when she was talking about having kids and being confused with her life. We talked about feelings for other people an she said she never had any, which was a lie. I felt like we were on the mend after our conversation, during which she told me she wants me first and foremost and that she thought her feelings were due to fear of reaching the point she could no longer have kids.

 

In the past, any trust issues I've had were mostly temporary periods of discomfort. Now, I feel I should fear her dishonesty due to the potential danger to myself and others. I've had some truse issues my whole life, so this one really kills.

 

The drinking? There is vomit all over the house and all over her car. Her front bumper is laying on the floor of the garage. I held her and made her puke up as much of the rest of the alcohol as she could. I think she is going to have a very rude awakening when she sobers up.

 

I do have to wonder if any of the recent activity is related to seeing someone else.

 

I've had break-ups before, but this is my first and only marriage. We've built an entire life together. I can't begin to imagine how to go about undoing it. I know I'll never want another woman. When we had a few break-ups before we got married, I knew that she is perfect for me. At the same time, I can't let someone take advantage of me like this.

[Devil Inside]

We are both in our late 30s. We both had other relationships before we got married (not HS sweethearts or anything).

 

Right after she said she was raped, she said "it was my fault". This was apparently someone she knew/knows and felt comfortable being alone with him in his house. I do want to be sensitive if she was forced, but I'm not sure that matters to how it impacts our relationship. There was, in my mind, an inappropriate relationship for her to be in that situation in the first place.

 

We had a heart to heart a couple weeks ago when she was talking about having kids and being confused with her life. We talked about feelings for other people an she said she never had any, which was a lie. I felt like we were on the mend after our conversation, during which she told me she wants me first and foremost and that she thought her feelings were due to fear of reaching the point she could no longer have kids.

 

In the past, any trust issues I've had were mostly temporary periods of discomfort. Now, I feel I should fear her dishonesty due to the potential danger to myself and others. I've had some truse issues my whole life, so this one really kills.

 

The drinking? There is vomit all over the house and all over her car. Her front bumper is laying on the floor of the garage. I held her and made her puke up as much of the rest of the alcohol as she could. I think she is going to have a very rude awakening when she sobers up.

 

I do have to wonder if any of the recent activity is related to seeing someone else.

 

I've had break-ups before, but this is my first and only marriage. We've built an entire life together. I can't begin to imagine how to go about undoing it. I know I'll never want another woman. When we had a few break-ups before we got married, I knew that she is perfect for me. At the same time, I can't let someone take advantage of me like this.

 

Ouch...I hurt for you my brother. This has got to hurt...to see the woman you love self destruct in front of you.

 

I get what you are saying about her being in a situation that she should not have been in. She is in need of some serious counseling. Rape is never the fault of the victim...NEVER. You need to be very careful to not reinforce this perception. If she was cheating on you...then that is a separate issue. She is the woman you love...help her to get to a therapist that specializes in trauma recovery from rape. I would specifically recommend someone that is trained in EMDR (I'm a therapist btw). She is going to need some help.

 

She seems to be using an addictive defense mechanism...her drinking is out of control. She sounds like an alcoholic at this point. This will be a long and twisted road for her.

 

As for you. Man...sorry. You will probably want to go and get some counseling yourself. It could really help. You will need the support to sort out this whole mess. You cannot trust her now...of course not. She is an alcoholic and a liar. It hurts to think that about someone we love...but it is obvious that you see that now.

 

Take some time to figure out what your limits and boundaries are. If you stay married...it is going to be work. If you divorce...it will be painful. I know you say she is the only woman...but trust me...this world is filled with beautiful women that will treat you like you treat them. However...at this point...it doesn't matter.

 

Take care of you...so that you can take care of her. Get her sober...get her some help...and then sort this out.

 

I will keep you in my thought. Good luck brother.

[BetterThanThis]

Thanks, Devil Inside. I agree with your points and I'm not out to punish or belittle her. I do want to help her regardless of the status of our relationship. I care about her as a fellow human being. I just wonder if we can continue to be married. I do need to sort my thoughts and I probably should see someone myself.

 

I hear what you're saying about finding another woman, but at my age? I've never met anyone single or married that is such a match for me. This woman is my best friend. I want to see her better more than I want my own pain to stop. I suppose it doesn't matter. Either this relationship works or it doesn't. I can't let one thing influence the other.

 

Thanks to everyone for the thoughts. It has helped calm me down a bit. It's a long road ahead, and it's nice to know there are folks like you out there.

[Devil Inside]

Thanks, Devil Inside. I agree with your points and I'm not out to punish or belittle her. I do want to help her regardless of the status of our relationship. I care about her as a fellow human being. I just wonder if we can continue to be married. I do need to sort my thoughts and I probably should see someone myself.

 

I hear what you're saying about finding another woman, but at my age? I've never met anyone single or married that is such a match for me. This woman is my best friend. I want to see her better more than I want my own pain to stop. I suppose it doesn't matter. Either this relationship works or it doesn't. I can't let one thing influence the other.

 

Thanks to everyone for the thoughts. It has helped calm me down a bit. It's a long road ahead, and it's nice to know there are folks like you out there.

 

Just take it one day at a time.

 

I hope that the words and support here have helped for now.

 

As an aside..I am in my mid thirties. I am contemplating a divorce. One thing that is not a concern is finding someone else once I am in that situation. Actually...when it comes to our age...there are tons of women out there. Really. Do not sell yourself short.

[anne1707]

Right after she said she was raped, she said "it was my fault". This was apparently someone she knew/knows and felt comfortable being alone with him in his house. I do want to be sensitive if she was forced, but I'm not sure that matters to how it impacts our relationship. There was, in my mind, an inappropriate relationship for her to be in that situation in the first place.

 

 

Something else to consider is that most rapists are known to the victim in some way therefore the victim is more likely to consider the rapist someone they can trust or who they are safe with until the rape. May be there was an inappropriate situation but at the moment that is far from the issue. Your wife needs help to address her problems and to help establish whether she was raped or she is lying about this. She sounds as if she is an absolute mess and needs a lot of professional help.

[Fallen Angel]

If she was raped then the drinking and other self destructive behaviours make sense.

 

Acquaintance or "date" rape (date rape does not mean she was actually dating or wanting a romantic relationship, just that she KNEW the person) is often more tramatic than being raped by a stranger, because it was someone you knew and trusted.

 

So along with all the horrbile emotions from the act of rape itself, she is dealing with feeling like it is her fault. You feel dirty, and stupid, and believe that you did something to "lead them on" (even though you probably never did) so you carry guilt. HUGE GUILT.

 

You feel like you have betrayed your significant other and are now unworthy of their love and respect. You feel like you didn't say NO enough, or fight back hard enough. And if your body reacted in a sexually excited way (which is TOTALLY OUT OF YOUR CONTROL) then you feel even more guilt and shame.

 

I know! And it is absolutely gut-wrenching.

 

Get her in touch with a rape crisis center.

 

Once she starts to realize that it was NOT HER FAULT, and she gets angry instead of feeling ashamed, she will start to heal.

 

I think the alcohol is probably her way of trying to cope with the myriad emotions she is feeling and is unable to process on her own. It is self destructive and right now she probably feels she wants to die. It feels like death would be easier than dealing with all the pain. So she is willing to take chances with her safety that she never previously has. When you have this happen you feel like damaged goods, and often "tempt fate" in more and more dangerous ways.

 

As to her having had sexual contact with you without telling you, I would say that she probably was seeking validation from you that you still love and want her. I would say she wasn't thinking about the possible consequences of having unprotected sexual contact with you, but was attempting to get her emotional needs met through a physical act. Her thinking patterns are not normal right now, as angry as it makes you, try to see it for what it is. Her trying desperately to deal with what happened to her. NOT that she was purposely putting you at risk.

 

Seek help from a professional for her as soon as possible, and try to be understanding and supportive.

 

I also agree that you probably could use professional help, as you, her H, will undergo many emotions through this as well. Often times men will come to blame themselves for not being there to "protect" their spouse. You may even find yourself resenting that she put herself in a situation that was unsafe. Just know that many of these feelings are NORMAL, but how you react to them can be what makes or breaks your marriage.

 

Remember that this is not YOUR fault, and that it is not HER fault, and that you are BOTH victims here. It seems that you love your wife very much. I think you stand an excellent chance of getting through this, and when you come out the other side of this dark tunnel, your marriage and connection will be stronger for having stood together through this.

 

Good Luck my friend. My prayers are with you.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

He raped her and gave her an STD.... That should be the smoking gun, if it was a rape. How you can consider it an almost throw away event "BTW she was raped by a acquaintance"?

 

Drinking problems, blackouts, leaving you for evenings out, drunk driving...... You have a myriad of problems to deal with. I'd see a counselor immediately and sit her down and ask her for the truth......

 

Wish you the best and am sorry for you.

[mem11363]

Really sorry for you.

 

There are a few things that are really important to figure out. The first thing is whether the drinking predated the rape. I actually think that you have no choice. You have to accept that she was raped. This is a very difficult situation because of her habitual lying - still - if you doubt her on that and it did happen - you will be compounding a terrible situation.

 

But if the problem drinking predated the rape, you need to focus as much on getting her help with the drinking as you do with the rape. Alcohol will destroy her and your life if you don't get on top of it. As for the rape treatment - you need someone who specializes in that.

 

Whether or not you stay with her is not something you can know for now. The decent thing to do though is to help her get through the recovery period as best as you can.

 

There is one other ugly piece of this puzzle. She has a potentially different motive for an affair - she wants a child. I think vasectomies are great - I had one - never regretted it. But separate from the rape and the drinking problem you two are going to have to decide whether she can be a happy, satisfied person without a child. Because if she can't, I think you will both be better off letting this come to and end so she can procreate.

 

Is the lying a recent thing? Does the lying tie back to the rape as well?

 

Is she totally non-communicative with the rapist?

 

This truly is a very difficult combination of problems.

 

 

I'm having an awful night and I really need some advice. It feels a bit strange posting this online, but I don't have a lot of close friends and they aren't going to be very helpful with this type of issue.

 

I've been married for ten years. Most of it has been quite good. Our fights have become less frequent and less severe over the years. I'd say we're pretty normal in that respect. We have great sex, we enjoy each other's company, and we share a number of interests.

 

Lately, my wife has been going out more frequently without me and getting drunk. She sometimes drives home when she shouldn't. Sometimes she is so bad that I can't wake her once she hits the bed. Tonight, she wrecked her car and doesn't remember what she hit. The damage is relatively minor, so she wasn't hurt.

 

Before tonight, she has mentioned that she is having trouble figuring out what she wants out of life. She said she has been thinking about having a baby. Yes, she said it like that. We have no kids now, and we both decided years ago that we didn't want any, so I got a vasectomy so she could get off of the pill.

 

Another thing I've been having trouble with is her dishonesty. She will often lie about fairly trivial things she did or didn't do. I have a pretty good sense of when someone is being dishonest with me, and the lies just didn't make sense a lot of times.

 

Tonight, I found out she was tested for STDs recently. I asked her if she had intimate contact with anyone. She said no. I asked a few more times and was told that she was raped a few months ago. The only other information I got was that it was at a friends house. She never told me and continued to have sex with me.

 

Sorry this is all over the place, but I'm really struggling right now. I love this woman to death, but I don't know if it makes sense to stay married to her when there is major problem with our relationship that she doesn't want to talk about. I'm angry that she would be alone with someone because I feel like cheating probably started before there was sex, whether she was willing to go that far with it or not. I'm also angry that she put my health at risk.

 

I guess I'm asking for advice because I don't know where to draw the line. I'm normally a fairly strong person when it comes to other areas of my life, but I've let relationships drive me to a dark place before deciding it was time to move on. The thing is this is a long-term marriage. I promised, she promised, we promised to be together forever. How do I consider my own feelings when I know she is hurting as well? At what point do I put my feelings first?

 

Sorry for a first post like this. I hope to talk to folks on a more positive note sometime, and I do realize this is selfish of me, but I appreciate your advice, experience, or even just your shoulder.

[BetterThanThis]

 

Is the lying a recent thing? Does the lying tie back to the rape as well?

 

Is she totally non-communicative with the rapist?

 

This truly is a very difficult combination of problems.

 

 

In response to the post before this one, there is a pending STD test. We don't have the results yet.

 

The lying is not recent. Although, in the past it was mostly about burning money on expensive dining or clothes. Not telling me of the rape did create a tension between us that I couldn't quite put my finger on. I said to her a number of times "you look like you need to tell me something".

 

I can't answer the second question. She says he was no longer her friend after that, but I really can't be sure.

 

Some of you won't be surprised that this was a Facebook friendship that let to a personal meeting to talk and have a couple drinks. I'm not clear on the nature of the relationship leading up to the meeting. She says it was platonic.

 

I am going to do my best to help her though this. I'm coaxing her to pick up the phone and make an appointment to see someone at the local shelter or a counselor they recommend.

[Auroracoladybug]

Better I think you have done well as a husband in this situation...

 

personal viewpoint...I was raped (only came to face it in the midst of fights with my husband), before then it was cheating on my then boyfriend...I blamed my boyfriend that it was sex and I was testing to see if I really wanted to be with him...it was all a cover up for me to put my guilt for it happening on him... Well that incident led to my lack of confidence in myself and my self worth and to a too close call (almost intercourse) with a exbf and cheating again...once again I felt terrible and revealed everything to my fiance and he said he forgave me and we moved on three years later to marry...now three years after our marriage he has left me and our 2 year old in what I see as his mini MLC because we never worked thru it we just covered it up...I admit the communication was blocked often by me because I never wanted to hurt him and never wanted anything other than him...I didn't have the confidence and was seeking some assurance that my ex loved me (we were f'n high schoolers)

 

Here is what I see...she made some bad judgements, she got hurt big time, she started distancing herself from you, and each time she thinks she is hurting you she spirals further into a hole...I am glad you are getting her help and don't push but listen lots and DONT let her go out without you...be there lots!

[Auroracoladybug]

sorry that was so long:o

[JumpinJimmy]

BTT, condolances to you brother. I can't add anything, just merely one more person to feel for you. That damn facebook...should be called adultery book.

[seibert253]

You wife is an alcoholic. She's self medicating something.

She had or is having an affair. You just don't go and get an STD test for sh#ts and giggles. It's because you are having an Oh Sh#t moment.

 

She needs help. Judging by what your wrote, sounds like she needs a stay in a treatment facility.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

She is an alcoholic and lucky she has not killed anyone with her driving. Siebert is right she needs a treatment facility and if she was raped, you need to report it......

 

I'll bet she won't want to press charges....

[cornelius]

Why does she have to go out to get drunk? Most alcoholics I know drink all the time, but drink the most at home.

[giotto]

I don't think she is an alcoholic... she is just medicating herself at the moment... alcoholism takes a little bit longer than just a few drunken nights...

[Fallen Angel]

We don't know if her excessive drinking predated the rape or is a result of self-medicating afterwards. I think we all need to hold off on the labeling of her as an alcoholic without all of the facts.

[scatterd]

I was raped by someone I knew.I felt like it somewhat my fault that maybe I led him on or something.But I cried and said no please dont.I also drank for

a few years after that.I was ashamed and felt dirty.I am fine now but the first

few years was hard.It depends on the person some people it efects them more.Its not something I like to talk about and through the years I have not said alot about it.She probably wants to forget it like I did.She needs to know its not her fault but for you to help you need some info.I hope all works well for you both.

[BetterThanThis]

Thanks for sharing, ladybug. A lot of what you said hits home. I'm going to do my best to get her through this. I hope that along the way I'm able to reconcile my feelings about all of it. I have a tendency to be too loyal at times, which has kept me in lousy situations longer than most people would have tolerated them.