imani Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 ... when an employee moves on to better opportunities? Even when they gave notice. Why not just wish them well and continue on? Instead, when you run into them, they seem to resent that the employee left on their own terms and are even more hostile about it when they learn that the employee didn't fall on their face by leaving. This seems very juvenile to me. Has anyone else here had this experience or have something similar happen to them with former bosses or coworkers?
Blackfrost Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 ... when an employee moves on to better opportunities? Even when they gave notice. Why not just wish them well and continue on? Instead, when you run into them, they seem to resent that the employee left on their own terms and are even more hostile about it when they learn that the employee didn't fall on their face by leaving. This seems very juvenile to me. Has anyone else here had this experience or have something similar happen to them with former bosses or coworkers? I've experienced this over and over with managers who managed me - and I told them I was leaving, as well as managers who managed others who left. Essentially it comes down to a few probable causes: 1. The employee leaving has just proven that they are capable and don't need the current manager, in order to be successful. <jealousy> 2. The employee leaving was possibly doing most of the managers work, and now the manager is going to get noticed for lack of competancy <fear> 3. The employee leaving is nearly impossible to replace, due to skillset and experience. <This makes the manager look bad to his managers for letting them go> 4. The employee left, and the manager no longer has someone he/she can possibly intimidate, underpay, god knows what else <powerless> Most managers have no real idea how to manage, and they use fear of unemployment and other toxic methods to drive their employees through their careers. I've had many jobs in this life, and sadly, I can count the amount of great managers I have worked for on less than 3 fingers.
Angel1111 Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 I'm a manager and I've never felt hostile toward anyone who left on good terms. There's absolutely no sense in that. I have personally never been treated that way, either. I think that's very odd.
Angel1111 Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 I've experienced this over and over with managers who managed me - and I told them I was leaving, as well as managers who managed others who left. Essentially it comes down to a few probable causes: 1. The employee leaving has just proven that they are capable and don't need the current manager, in order to be successful. <jealousy> 2. The employee leaving was possibly doing most of the managers work, and now the manager is going to get noticed for lack of competancy <fear> 3. The employee leaving is nearly impossible to replace, due to skillset and experience. <This makes the manager look bad to his managers for letting them go> 4. The employee left, and the manager no longer has someone he/she can possibly intimidate, underpay, god knows what else <powerless> Most managers have no real idea how to manage, and they use fear of unemployment and other toxic methods to drive their employees through their careers. I've had many jobs in this life, and sadly, I can count the amount of great managers I have worked for on less than 3 fingers. This is interesting to me. You know, companies, executives and managers are continually aware that people can and will come and go as they please. It's not a huge deal. Yes, they have to be replaced but, again, this is no surprise in business. Now if a manager constantly loses people, that needs to be looked at and that could be what the hostility is about. A manager would not be held responsible for not being able to keep any employee, unless that manager has the power to make a counter-offer to the employee - even then, they wouldn't be held accountable for the employee's decision to leave. I also find it hard to believe the employees do the manager's work. A lot of my staff used to wonder what I did since it didn't fit into their work flow. They were surprised to learn the things I had to handle and address. Staff has the luxury of kicking back and doing their job, managers are constantly under scrutiny and must answer for anything that goes on that they're responsible for. It may appear you're doing their work, but I'm betting that's not the case. It may be that you made judgements about the manager and he/she picked up on that, or heard it through the grapevine later. Which would account for hostility after you left. Staff who aren't on my side are truly my biggest pet peeve. I rarely encounter people like this but they've been around. I know there are a lot of bad managers out there but I also know that there are a lot of people who don't have any concept of what managers have to do and what their level of responsibilies are. I'd say maybe learn to have a little more empathy for managers and it may help in the future.
You'reasian Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 This is interesting to me. You know, companies, executives and managers are continually aware that people can and will come and go as they please. It's not a huge deal. Yes, they have to be replaced but, again, this is no surprise in business. Now if a manager constantly loses people, that needs to be looked at and that could be what the hostility is about. A manager would not be held responsible for not being able to keep any employee, unless that manager has the power to make a counter-offer to the employee - even then, they wouldn't be held accountable for the employee's decision to leave. I also find it hard to believe the employees do the manager's work. A lot of my staff used to wonder what I did since it didn't fit into their work flow. They were surprised to learn the things I had to handle and address. Staff has the luxury of kicking back and doing their job, managers are constantly under scrutiny and must answer for anything that goes on that they're responsible for. It may appear you're doing their work, but I'm betting that's not the case. It may be that you made judgements about the manager and he/she picked up on that, or heard it through the grapevine later. Which would account for hostility after you left. Staff who aren't on my side are truly my biggest pet peeve. I rarely encounter people like this but they've been around. I know there are a lot of bad managers out there but I also know that there are a lot of people who don't have any concept of what managers have to do and what their level of responsibilies are. I'd say maybe learn to have a little more empathy for managers and it may help in the future. Some managers are good at making things happen that improve their employees jobs or create further opportunities for them to do their job and this often goes unnoticed by the employees. I've experienced alot of different management styles. I'm greatful for the managers that look after their personnel - that's something we can't be thankful enough for.
Odyssey Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 There could be a lot of reasons... but it does come down to certain manager's personality. From what i've seen, a few managers prefer to keep the relationship as professional and uncompassionate as possible and so appear cold (they come across as defensive and hostile) when you leave. I've even heard from my manager, that he was told to start acting like a real manager and to stop being so chummy with us, by the company director. Then there are plenty of managers that act like they really care, just to be polite. Some take it too personally and hold a grudge because you'd dare rock the boat and will always try and pull you down. And I've seen the other end of the spectrum, where a few managers have got teary when someone left and every so often wonder about them, even after 5 years. ...or it could be they just plain don't like you. I wouldn't dwell on it too much.
Blackfrost Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 This is interesting to me. You know, companies, executives and managers are continually aware that people can and will come and go as they please. It's not a huge deal. Yes, they have to be replaced but, again, this is no surprise in business. Now if a manager constantly loses people, that needs to be looked at and that could be what the hostility is about. A manager would not be held responsible for not being able to keep any employee, unless that manager has the power to make a counter-offer to the employee - even then, they wouldn't be held accountable for the employee's decision to leave. I also find it hard to believe the employees do the manager's work. A lot of my staff used to wonder what I did since it didn't fit into their work flow. They were surprised to learn the things I had to handle and address. Staff has the luxury of kicking back and doing their job, managers are constantly under scrutiny and must answer for anything that goes on that they're responsible for. It may appear you're doing their work, but I'm betting that's not the case. It may be that you made judgements about the manager and he/she picked up on that, or heard it through the grapevine later. Which would account for hostility after you left. Staff who aren't on my side are truly my biggest pet peeve. I rarely encounter people like this but they've been around. I know there are a lot of bad managers out there but I also know that there are a lot of people who don't have any concept of what managers have to do and what their level of responsibilies are. I'd say maybe learn to have a little more empathy for managers and it may help in the future. Consider yourself to be very blessed to have not worked for some of the corporations that I have. I have watched managers get fried for losing key staff, seen unchecked powertrips, do nothing but manage up, and ultimately drive the morale of their people and divisions into the ground. My previous employer was one of the top software developers in the world (which was where I learned the most about bad management for a decade) and my current job has me restructuring a branch of one of the top 5 largest media companies in the world. Believe me, the damage that I am undoing for a current division is a monumental task, and the people are thrilled to finally have someone who isn't taking the job as a glamour position, but is actually fundamentally changing the structure of accountability and expectations. Bad management, mismanagement, nepotism, cronyism, incompetance - these are pretty darn common in some of the companies I've worked for, and I am highly attuned to finding those types and either educating/correcting or building cases for dismissal. One of the core flaws I've seen around managers not being great managers, is that they were promoted into positions that fell outside of their original competancies or passions. Also, tenure should never be a metric for promotion to management - future managers should want the jobs because they love the work. I'm quite shocked at times, the number of managers I have met, who fundamentally lack executive maturity, and professional communication skills. These are also possible reasons/reactions behind the original posted question.
Angel1111 Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Consider yourself to be very blessed to have not worked for some of the corporations that I have. I have watched managers get fried for losing key staff, seen unchecked powertrips, do nothing but manage up, and ultimately drive the morale of their people and divisions into the ground. My previous employer was one of the top software developers in the world (which was where I learned the most about bad management for a decade) and my current job has me restructuring a branch of one of the top 5 largest media companies in the world. Believe me, the damage that I am undoing for a current division is a monumental task, and the people are thrilled to finally have someone who isn't taking the job as a glamour position, but is actually fundamentally changing the structure of accountability and expectations. Bad management, mismanagement, nepotism, cronyism, incompetance - these are pretty darn common in some of the companies I've worked for, and I am highly attuned to finding those types and either educating/correcting or building cases for dismissal. One of the core flaws I've seen around managers not being great managers, is that they were promoted into positions that fell outside of their original competancies or passions. Also, tenure should never be a metric for promotion to management - future managers should want the jobs because they love the work. I'm quite shocked at times, the number of managers I have met, who fundamentally lack executive maturity, and professional communication skills. These are also possible reasons/reactions behind the original posted question. Well, that's news to me that a manager would be held accountable for an employee deciding to leave - unless the manager did something to drive the person away. If people feel valued and feel like their manager is on their side, they'll usually be happy employees. I used to work for an attorney who went through people like you wouldn't believe. In the first 6 mos I was there, 5 people walked out on her. She was a nightmare - hot tempered with a major ego. Had she worked for a corporation instead of herself, she would've been fired - and rightfully so. A few months later, I was one of the ones who walked out. No one could work for this person. I had never done that before in my life but I never regretted it. The thing about this thread that disturbs me is that it seems really silly that any person - manager or otherwise - would be rude to someone just because they moved on to another company. I don't understand that kind of behavior. I just wonder if there's something more to it than that.
Author imani Posted October 16, 2009 Author Posted October 16, 2009 The thing about this thread that disturbs me is that it seems really silly that any person - manager or otherwise - would be rude to someone just because they moved on to another company. I don't understand that kind of behavior. I just wonder if there's something more to it than that. I see no point in acting this way either. If the company didn't have the opportunities needed to progress, then why wouldn't anyone move on? Everyone is replaceable when you're working for someone else. In my case I think that since I took the plunge and chartered other waters, and didn't fall on my face, this is where the hostility comes from. Other than that, I thought I use to work for adults. *shrugs* Thanks for the feed back, LS. Although I am troubled that others have experienced this.
JohnnyBlaze Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 I've seen a few managers get snarky over an employee leaving. Reasons were... The employee left for a direct competitor. Smelled of corporate espionage.Like Angel said, the employee leaving was one of a number from the department - a sign that something was wrong with the direction (and thus, the management) of the department. Shortly after, the manager was let go.The manager's first ever employee leaving. He took it very personally.The manager was very domineering, and felt that employees leaving were a sign that they overcame his "control". This attitude was then intensified on the remaining employees. Those are the ones I've seen, anyway. I'm sure there are more.
Neutrino Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 (edited) My experience is different. The previous company I worked for was very small and in a different field from the company I work for now (so no conflict of interests). At my previous - we developed unique technology, and then the IP was sold to someone else who would manufacture, I did not want to work for the manufacturer and knew that the need for my services with the developer would end once the IP was sold. I was completely open and honest with my boss (we had a very good professional relationship), so when I was contacted for my present job, I simply told my boss about it. Even at the interview, my present employer was very surprised when I gave my then-current boss as my first reference... I'm still in contact with my previous boss, he asked and I agreed to help the manufacturer a little when necessary. Of course I cleared it with my present boss. ** When I interviewed for my job I told my present boss I could only start 4 months later than what they originally wanted, because I would not leave my previous boss with an unfinished product (small company and nobody to replace me), I realized I was taking a risk there, but they actually appreciated my loyalty - although at the time it was to someone else... Edited October 17, 2009 by Neutrino
Recommended Posts