MrMayI Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Oh, Lawd that is too funny! He is WAY past just "a F**ing pussy", IMHO. Here's what I'd do: Tell him which day you're going to call...and then don't call. Let him just out himself, and leave it at that. But, if you do want to speak with her directly...well, for sure I'd make sure that he is home at the time of your phone call. He is TOO funny!!! agreed. man, that guy is pathetic. no doubt. too scared to face the truth.
Author floridapad Posted October 16, 2009 Author Posted October 16, 2009 Gunny I like your style. I actually sent the letter to my STBX so she could see what a scum bag he is. The guy sent me another letter a week ago begging that I don't tell his wife. He knows I am Christain and he wrapped up the letter by saying "Before you make your decision about telling my wife, I kindly hope that you ask yourself what would Jesus do". It was that comment that made me decide I was going to tell his wife. Dumb A$$. I obviously responded by saying "Jesus would not have committed adultery and if he did he would fully accept the consequences that would be set upon him". I gotta say though. This long drawn out torture on this guy has been somewhat fun (I know I know I shouldn't "feel" that way), but he does need to have some consequences.
MrMayI Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Gunny I like your style. I actually sent the letter to my STBX so she could see what a scum bag he is. The guy sent me another letter a week ago begging that I don't tell his wife. He knows I am Christain and he wrapped up the letter by saying "Before you make your decision about telling my wife, I kindly hope that you ask yourself what would Jesus do". It was that comment that made me decide I was going to tell his wife. Dumb A$$. I obviously responded by saying "Jesus would not have committed adultery and if he did he would fully accept the consequences that would be set upon him". I gotta say though. This long drawn out torture on this guy has been somewhat fun (I know I know I shouldn't "feel" that way), but he does need to have some consequences. i don't know if my sitch applies here in any way, but i'd be leary of this scumbag. the OM i exposed is (was) a youth minister, and has a part time job next door to my ex's work. he cried and said he was quitting his part time job and fully comitting to the church, and was done with the ex. well, he quit the church, kept his other job, and far as i know, the ex actually stopped talking to him because he's so scummy. either way, these snakes will do whatever they can to cover their own ass. they don't give a **** about anyone but themselves.
Ronni_W Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 This long drawn out torture on this guy has been somewhat fun (I know I know I shouldn't "feel" that way) Are you kidding? Have as much fun with him as you possibly can -- HE is the one putting himself out for entertainment purposes! That's why my 'evil twin' suggested to just fake him out, tell him when you're gonna call but then don't actually do it -- can you imagine how pissed and stupid he is gonna feel after he realizes that you "got him reeeal good"??? Plus. That way you can have twice the fun, if he does NOT out himself -- he's gonna have to squirm until you do make the actual call -- he knows it's coming, and he knows that he's got it coming. Make him squirm for as long as you can or want, is what I'd do.
imagine Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 OM - like all sinners - is confronted by the consequences. To his credit, he is not trying to bluster his way out of the situation. But he does want to avoid his wife's reaction to the affair. Make sure that you have all details of the affair when you contact her. He should not get the opportunity to put a spin on the event. Jesus would expose every deed. Marriage, yours and his, is about honesty. I venture to say that all marriages need to learn the concept of radical honesty: Prior to marriage, during marriage and any thoughts of either spouse wondering outside of marriage. All of these must be exposed to your partner. Yep, partnership is about sharing. Do not take pleasure out of the recounting of the event. If your are a Christian, this is about respecting marriage. You will be putting his partner through the same hell that you are experiencing. I do not know what will happen to your wife as she goes through withdrawal. For the first two week she will be withdrawn an will not respond to you or any councillor. Later you may want to consult a pro marriage councillor. I cannot prescribe what is right in your circumstances. I would recommend prayer and fasting. Indifference may well be your coping mechanism but I suspect that this will slow your recovery. Speak to a good Christian friend. He needs to be an ear for you at this stage.
Trimmer Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 I'd be inclined to take a slightly different view, and say you should try to be friendly towards your wife for the sake of your kids. This woman will be there every time you pick them up, you'll have to talk to her on the phone, and you'll have to go into her house if they want you to go up to their room to see their stamp collection or something. She'll be there at school sports days and plays, and at Christmas and birthdays, and at every other event in their lives that you might want to attend. When they graduate, when they get married, when they have kids of their own, she'll be there. It's much better to have a friendly relationship with her so there's no tension when you inevitably meet at family events. My parents divorced and they haven't spoken to each other since I left home, I can't invite both of them to the same event even if I want them both there... believe me, it's not a nice situation to put your kids in. I agree with this - if there's anything you can do "for the sake of your kids", it would be to ensure that you have a harmonious parental relationship. That doesn't mean that you have to be good friends, or a "big part of each other's lives" or anything like that. Check out this old post of mine for my philosophy on treating her in the context of her different "characters": http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1579906 Being able to do this for your kids is a huge gift to them, and this technique helped me to isolate and protect myself from the loss of my spouse, while allowing me to continue a harmonious and supportive relationship with my kids' mother...
Logik Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 I would really think about telling the OM's wife. You might regret it one day. The OM's marriage is not your concern. Your marriage is your concern. It might make you feel better now, getting back at him for doing this, but when everything has blown over I think you might look back and wonder why you did it. It seems like a very emotional thing to do. That's what your wife is doing, making emotional decisions. Do you want to do the same? Please think about it again before you do it.
Author floridapad Posted October 16, 2009 Author Posted October 16, 2009 Ronnie W - I LOVE your idea. I just may use it. Trimmer and Thorton - I agree. We will need to maintain cordial contact. After the seperation I told my W no friendship, no e-mails no text messages until I detach. Then we can work on being friends. We were just getting there (friendship) but this set me back a bit. She is desperate in her e-mail because she does not want to go back to the LC thing. Funny thing is I could turn back on the freindship if I knew she has moved on from this individual. My LCing her again, combined with this guys cowardly letter saying he wants to grow old with his wife will hopefully make her feel miserable enough that she may actually hit rock bottom and start trying to mentally pull herself out of the affair and realize what is important. I do not harbor hatred for her. Just the opposite. I have detached with love but she needs to hit rock bottom and it pains me to have to do it to her but she needs it. Logik - The OM's wife needs to know. I gave this individual an opportunity to leave his job Which he told me he resigned from only finding out after he lied. There were many other lies when I spoke to him "man to man". He has zero consequences in all this. I will see this individual as he teaches at my childrens school and seeing him even sporadically will remind me that he has no consequences, that he lied to me, used my wife and is living his happy life with his wife looking at me as a pussy. Gotta get my man card back on this one. I have been thinking about this for a LOOONG time so to me it is not out of emotion. Imagine - I will definately not take pleasure in doing this, but she must know for my sanity (Yes it is selfish) and she does deserve to know. This could make there marriage stronger if they do it right. Yes we do need to go to a REAL MC should she and I decide to reconcile. It will happen next week. I am giving this individual an opportunity to tell his wife first directly and he uses it as an opportuntiy to leave her a letter, run away for the day, and let me call her. What an absolute F**ing pussy. I've heard my wife is in absolute shock over his approach to telling hiswife and made her stomach turn like a twister. This may be the wake up call that drives the nail in the coffin with her feelings/addiction for this guy. But I ain't keeping my hopes up.
Trimmer Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 I would really think about telling the OM's wife. You might regret it one day. The OM's marriage is not your concern. Your marriage is your concern. It might make you feel better now, getting back at him for doing this, but when everything has blown over I think you might look back and wonder why you did it. It seems like a very emotional thing to do. That's what your wife is doing, making emotional decisions. Do you want to do the same? Please think about it again before you do it. This is a good point, especially if you see the possibilty of "normalizing" the relationship between you and your wife is on the horizon, in whatever form that might take. I would think that the only purpose at this point for exposing would be if you had some confidence that it would push your wife in a desirable direction. Unless you have some confidence of that, I would think that the possibility of negative (or at best, unknown) consequences should give you pause. At a minimum, assuming the worst, ask youself: will this likely help - or hurt - my relationship with her, from the perspective of continuing to parent our kids together? If nothing else, make sure that the negatives here are far outweighed by the positives (which seems doubtful...)
Trimmer Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 I cross posted with your comments. I see that you've given it some serious consideration, and I can't take issue with your thoughts. Good luck.
imagine Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 I did not realise that he taught at your childrens' school. Expose him there. There must be no contact with your wife and him (if you care). Do not tolerate this condition. Explain your circumstances to the principal. Worst case, get your kids out of the school.
Author floridapad Posted October 16, 2009 Author Posted October 16, 2009 Imagine, I cannot expose him at the school for two reasons. 1) My wife works at the school and they will both be fired. Don't want everyone in the school and parish to know about it which is what will happen. It would trickle to my children. Don't want that at all. 2) This man is poor. He is a teacher at a perochrial school and his wife can't find a job (economy stinks). They have two children and they all need medical insurance and the ability to pay for essentials. He loses his job it becomes a matter of feeding his family. It's not easy to find a music teaching job in this day and age. Yeah I know I shouldn't care but not being able to provide for a family, children etc because I told the school would not sit with me well. I have thought about this over and over. If my wife can't look at this man's cowardly letter and wake up then shee is definately not someone I would want back. BTW I responded to my wife's email with a simple "Thank you I know you are sincere". Nothing else. Short and sweet affirmation of her apolegetic feelings and keep her wondering. Was going to go for the paragraph by paragraph rebuttal but that hasn't worked at all in the past so I'm doing a 180. Ha!!! Right now I am so detached. A lot because I am sick of crying and I am detached but also because this is becoming too much of a game of phsyc chess and I feel for ONCE in this whole darn thing I have more control than her..
imagine Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Lets get a grip on reality. Your wife has betrayed her family. It affects your kids. They are not stupid and do not need further betrayal from you. Tell them in an age appropriate way. Do not lie why you need to separate. The school needs ethical people to run it. That is why both your wife and OM should get the boot. You will be affected too. This the consequence of infidelity. I believe in God and it may be that great trial will take place in your lives. I do not know what God will do to support his people. But what ever it is, it will be for faith and dependence in Him. Do you have a confidential Christian guy friend with whom you can share?
LocalColor Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 I'm with Logik on this one. Telling the OM's wife will garner you nothing but drama and trouble that you need to stay out of. You need to manage your own feelings, and those of your children. Getting revenge, or trying to interject in the marriage of the OM is no better than your wife having the affair with him. You're both sticking your noses somewhere you don't belong. Your wife is telling you she is okay with you revealing this information because a. she is bitter things did not work out with the OM b. she is testing you. No good can come of this. Based on reading the email, here are a few of my passing thoughts. She's clearly feeling bad for hurting you. She may be past the point of guilt, as it sounds like she's trying to own what she did and come to terms with (ie. moving toward acceptance and self-forgiveness). If she's the cerebral type, some of this may be her attempting to empathize with you. She's interested in maintaining a relationship with you because of the children and desires a friendship because of this connection. This is a very reasonable request, IMHO. She's sad the relationship is not making as much progress in that direction as she hoped, but she understands the reality of the situation. I'm not sure what she's talking about "taking others rejects" but is that a jab you made about OM perhaps? My guess is she's telling you here it's not about the OM, it's about her unhappiness in the marriage and her inability to productively manage those feelings. She expresses regret in not coming to you before she was ready to go elsewhere. I think she's made it pretty clear that she's moving on, however — there's nothing here that says "I want to come home." If you've been separated for 5 months you need to accept that she's ready for divorce. I've read some of these other responses, and many are quite paranoid and seem to be inferring ideas I'm not picking up from her words. Nowhere in this did I see her being particularly manipulative. Her words are very carefully chosen to have the least ambiguity. I think you need to take what this message says at face value.
Gunny376 Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 Imagine, I cannot expose him at the school for two reasons. 1) My wife works at the school and they will both be fired. Don't want everyone in the school and parish to know about it which is what will happen. It would trickle to my children. Don't want that at all. 2) This man is poor. He is a teacher at a parochial school and his wife can't find a job (economy stinks). They have two children and they all need medical insurance and the ability to pay for essentials. He loses his job it becomes a matter of feeding his family. It's not easy to find a music teaching job in this day and age. Yeah I know I shouldn't care but not being able to provide for a family, children etc because I told the school would not sit with me well. I have thought about this over and over. If my wife can't look at this man's cowardly letter and wake up then she is definitely not someone I would want back. BTW I responded to my wife's email with a simple "Thank you I know you are sincere". Nothing else. Short and sweet affirmation of her apologetic feelings and keep her wondering. Was going to go for the paragraph by paragraph rebuttal but that hasn't worked at all in the past so I'm doing a 180. Ha!!! Right now I am so detached. A lot because I am sick of crying and I am detached but also because this is becoming too much of a game of psych chess and I feel for ONCE in this whole darn thing I have more control than her.. You Sir! Did good! Clearly your a man of Honor! A man with a Code! A man with Morals! A man of Ethics! A man with a conscious! A man who thinks of others and not just himself! A man who puts others before himself! A considerate man! A man who puts the pain and/ or potential pain of innocent others before your own pain. A man who is willing to sacrifice for innocent others. In short! Your ARE THA' MAN! You did good kid! You did real good! Gotta to give you :bunny::bunny: for that one!
Ronni_W Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 I like your response to your wife's email - the "KISS" principle sure is useful to remember Imagine, I cannot expose him at the school for two reasons. 1) My wife works at the school and they will both be fired. Don't want everyone in the school and parish to know about it which is what will happen. It would trickle to my children. Don't want that at all. Good points, both. But what if his wife does not think about all the ramifications, or doesn't put financial considerations ahead of any emotional need that she may subsequently have to fulfill, to extract revenge on her cheating husband and/or your wife? Or, if she already suspects but has thus far chosen to turn a blind eye and you put it in her face...maybe she then won't care about what could trickle down to your kids (assuming that she'll even be able to see all the ramifications as clearly as you can, that is.)
Author floridapad Posted October 17, 2009 Author Posted October 17, 2009 Gunny Thank you for the kind words. It does mean alot to me coming from a Marine and a man who has obviously educated himself about people and relationships to such a high degree. Ronnie W - I know what you are talking about and this has been thought about. I spoke to he OM and told him if he wants to say it is someone at another place then I will go along with him. He cannot afford to lose his job...His wife knows this too. As you could tell by his e-mail he chose to keep it anonymous. My fear is that she would have gone after my STBX and possibly created a major scene at there work place. Can't have that happen. This is the oddest thing to coordinate breaking the news to the wife with the OM. It is so delicate though. There is sooo much more going on that I just can't because it is just too voluminous. At the end of the day the affair has to be exposed to the wife. I will be very respectful to her and not get into the details.
Ronni_W Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 As you could tell by his e-mail he chose to keep it anonymous. Well, yes...for now. But you are already aware of what "a F**ing pussy" he is -- what's the bet on how fast he will cave at the first instant of his wife putting even the faintest amount of pressure on him for some details? In any case, once the cat is out of the bag, neither you nor her husband will be able to control what and how his wife will need to do for herself. But. Are you planning to reveal this incredibly impactful and damaging information to her anonymously, too? It is, of course, admirable that you will respect her here in a public forum...but I'm not seeing anything respectufl about you breaking news of her husband's infidelity without revealing your own identity. I would just encourage you to be sure that, within your own mind and heart, that is the "manly" and upstanding way to go about it.
Author floridapad Posted October 17, 2009 Author Posted October 17, 2009 Ronnie W. I wanted him to expose the affair himself. When I contact her it will only be to ensure he has informed her. The affair from his end needs to end. He needs to know he is losing his wife or possibly losing his wife. Everyone on this forum and the marriage forum preaches exposure, yet so many on this post are discouraging it. I don't get it. He needs to focus on his wife and the possible loss of his family. The only way is through exposure. If he thinks his wife is secure because she does not know he will quickly drift back into fantasy land. Yes perhaps my wife now knows what a pussy he is but the whole point of exposure is so he now focuses 100% of his time energy and attention on his wife and family, which is something he hasn't done even though I told him several times I was going to tell his wife. He thought that he could still hide the interaction from me, continue his affair with my wife and have his fun. Sorry but exposure is the only way. He obviously doesn't want to lose his family. Exposure is is not meant to be an act of revenge, or an act of manlihood. It is meant to bring the whole thing to the light of day. It has happened for my wife and I can see that she is slowly withdrawing from it because everyone knows and she is hearing it from all ends. He only started withdrawing from my wife recently because he knew I was serious yet he couldn't help himself one last time. As for not being manly by being anonymous. It makes no difference in my mind to be anonymous or not. HE can fill in the blanks. It doesn't matter with who its the fact that the act was done.
Ronni_W Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 floridapad, I'm not unsympathetic to your situation. I understand feelings of rage and powerlessness, and wanting to take back control of one's own life and circumstances. A need for revenge can play right into that, though. And I can also see how maybe it will be comforting to be able to feel as if you're no longer carrying the burden all by yourself, of the suffering and damage that your wife and this guy caused. Obviously his wife will be forced to share that with you, once she knows. When I contact her it will only be to ensure he has informed her.How did you become the guardian/custodian for ensuring that what you think-believe is "right/best" for them, their family and their marriage happens? He needs to know he is losing his wife or possibly losing his wife. ... He needs to focus on his wife and the possible loss of his family.No, that is only what you believe he needs to know and do. I think...as long as you've reflected on whether there is any arrogance and/or self-righteousness going on when we start to determine other people's "needs" for them, and think we know what is "right/best" for them, and attempt to force our own beliefs and needs on them. I'm not saying don't tell his wife. Take out a front-page ad in your local newspaper if that will help you reclaim whatever power and control you believe were taken from you. Do what you have to do. I am saying, hopefully none of it will trickle down to your kids in the immediate or distant future. You called him a "a F**ing pussy" in context of the way he intends to expose his affair to his wife and that does suggest that, for you, there is also an element of "manlihood" that comes into play. When you call her to ensure that she has been informed, there is still a courageous and a cowardly way to do that. I'm sorry that these are the types of decisions and choices you must make; I know it can get ugly and complicated. But long after it's all said and done, you'll still have to look in the mirror...my suggestion is: may as well do your best now, to ensure that you will be at peace with the man who looks back at you. Hugs and best of luck.
imagine Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 Exposure is not about manliness. It is about doing what is right. Ignoring the affair would probably perpetuate it. His wife must be aware of the implications of losing provider at work. I do not believe that a school should carry unfaithful employers. They are not Hollywood. Were I there principal the OM and your wife would be quietly fired. Oh yes, there would be financial ramifications. THIS IS NOT ABOUT REVENGE. If there were no consequences, adultery would flourish in these folks lives. I believe that it is possible to regain the connection and improve the marriage that you previously had with your wife. BUT NC is essential. Doing nothing is an inaction. I cannot applaud you for that. Doing what is right is costly to those who are in the right. Consult with OMW. Have you the strength to expose the affair?
Author floridapad Posted October 18, 2009 Author Posted October 18, 2009 Imagine - Thank you You are right about it not being revenge. If it were revenge I would have done it months ago. I gave the individual opportunities to leave the workplace and to discontinue contact which he said he would do but never did. One other e-mail I saw a few weeks ago from my wife to her freind said this (I paraphrase because the e-mail was shown to me by someone else and I don't remember exact words: " I spoke to him last night. I am in stage two of the breakup... anger and hatred . I wanted to tell him to leave me alone and go away but I know I am to week right now and my credibility is zero" [/i] He wants his family but doesn't want to lose a hot piece of A$$ and he KNOWS my wife is addicted to him. Exposure must be completed. I know my wife thinks less and less of him for the e-mails he sent me, especially when he said "what would Jesus do" and they are truly in the final stages but he needs to have exposure in order for him to just quit. Affairs are VERY powerful. in the early days after discovery she told the IC that she was madly in love with this guy and felt she never loved me when we were married. After a few sessions with the IC she realized that she was in love with me once but just not now and doesn't know if she ever will be. To say you were never in love with the man you married only to realize later you actually were is something that affairs can do. The fog is deep and she is slowly coming out of it. She is also having an MLC, so says the counselor. This could be a long haul for saving the marriage but based on her original e-mail at least there is something there. She has cried to me before that she loves me but just doesn't have those butterfly feelings (yeah no sh*t your still connected to the OM).
imagine Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 Affairs are a drug. The mind is producing the same drug that made her fall in love with you. You can restore that status with God's help and your determination. Embarrassment draws them out of the fog. Meeting there emotional need brings them closer to you. Learning to control your anger further speeds up the relationship (very important). Establishing a close personal communication prevents future wayward behaviour. Do you want this for now or any future relationship: Google Marriage Builders articles. This place was recommended to me at this site. I am still learning after accessing for three years . Keep in touch!
Chrome Barracuda Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 Exposure is not about revenge your right about that. Secondly if your going to do it, dont announce it to them. The OM will interfere and try to keep his secrets, secret. He will deflect and blameshift and lie to get out of it like a weasel he is. Reguardless they should have thought about the consequences before the affair!
Author floridapad Posted October 19, 2009 Author Posted October 19, 2009 This is the week for exposure. I'm doing it Thursday. I spoke to my wife yesterday and she admitted she spoke to him recently but only to wrap up emotional lose ends. I told her I didn't believe her and she said that I had to beleive her (as she cried) and proceeded to tell me how much she hates the OM. She said she had to bring the emotional affair to an end somehow in her heart and head and the e-mails and actions of this man over the last month woke her up to what a coward/scumbag he is. She realizes she is in withdrawal and she is an emotional wreck. For the first time in 6 months she reached out to hug me and kiss me (closed mouth of course). As we continued to speak about her lies and the affair she started grabbing her stomach in pain. She has an ulcer and perhaps something else. I backed off. She doesn't know this but I have access to her cell phone account and after I left she called 911. She would never tell me she is sick or complain. NEVER. If this isn't the bottom then I don't know what is. I felt so bad for her I invited her to dinner with me and the kids and you could see the tears in her eyes as we had dinner out for the first time in 6 months as a family. No mention of the 911 call. Whether or not we reconcile as a full couple or just friends or even at all, I just can't do NC anymore. I will do a "freindly" LC. If I find that she does not use this exposure as a springboard for NC with the OM and true movement forward for herself (like she says she is going to do), I'm going to drop the divorce papers right in front of her. What a friggin weekend and the week will only get more interesting. This is a long road. If I hadn't detached from her with the help of fellow LS followers I would be in far worse shape. Thank you all.
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