floridapad Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 OK. Some of you know my sitch. 15 yrs marriage 3 children wife gave me love you but not in love with you. Found out about affair and we seperated. After 5 months she tells me she has not spoken to him but I find out today she spoke to him a couple of weeks ago. I'm exposing the affair to the OM's wife this weekend and told my wife. She is OK with it. We are not together but we started to become friendly a month ago but now I found out she spoke to him, so I texted her and said I knew about it and can not be a part of her life in any fashion. She called texted but I did not pick up. She sent me the e-mail below. Need some advice on where to go from here. I do want to save the marriage for sake of the family but will not do JUST for the sake of family. Please give me your advice. Thanks ...I knew you wouldn't pick up the phone, but I thought I'd try anyways.... I am not sure where all this is coming from and why today. I have lied to you before and I get why you assume I am always lying now. I know that I truly care about you, and that I have hurt you beyond repair in the past year. Looking back at this whole mess now, I see that I should have handled things differently. Things just happened way too fast for me to even think about the consequences. Something was missing from our marriage and I should have taken care of that before I went and did what I did. I am really sorry that I didn't. I see now that no matter what, that will ALWAYS hang over my head, with you, or anybody else in the future. You still bring it up, and I don't blame you. You have every right to. I did it. But I am not quite as naive and gullable as you think I am. I am very well aware of what my options are at this point in my life. I am not going to take anybody else's rejects if that's what you think I am doing. I am still working everything out inside my head and inside my heart. Sometimes things are just not as simple as they seem. Even in an affair. I know that I care about you. I care about what you do and what happens to you. I am sorry I hurt you, and saying I didn't mean to, means nothing, I understand. I know that you are still angry with me. I understand, I get it. But I know as well as you do, that we have our children together, and we will always be a big part of each other's life, forever. I want that, I need that for me and for them. I do love you, and I really miss having you in my life, even if just as a friend. I thought we were getting there...... I'm sorry I hurt you, I am sorry I lied to you. I am sorry I am the cause of so much internal struggle for you. I truly, truly am. You didn't deserve it. So, if and when you can find it in your heart to really forgive me, and I hope you will, I want you to be a big part of my life, and I want to be a big part of yours. But I know that life isn't always fair, and I understand that if that never happens, I will have to live with that for the rest of my life. Please forgive me....for everything.... What the hell do I do now.
GorillaTheater Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 I didn't get the feeling from your wife's note that she's interested in trying to repair the marriage. It sounds like she was hoping for a cordial relationship during the separation and any eventual divorce. And the "cordiality" would be alot more about soothing her guilt than anything else. I dunno, man. Just my take.
Logik Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Well, I don't really know what she is actually trying to say. It does seem a bit over the place. She seems to be a bit confused as to what she wants. If I had gotten that mail from my wife, I'd sit on it for a while. Acknowledge to her that you did receive it and then sleep on it. Give yourself time to process what she is saying.
Ronni_W Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 we have our children together, and we will always be a big part of each other's life, forever. I want that, I need that for me ... ...I want you to be a big part of my life, and I want to be a big part of yours. But I know that life isn't always fair, I agree with GT. She's not talking about "saving the marriage" -- she's trying to position herself as (still) having a big part in your life. (Maybe it's just me, but I'm also reading: a bigger part than any of your future love interests.) And, in her head, if she doesn't get what she wants about all of it, then life, apparently, would be be treating her unfairly!?!?!? Truth is, as your ex-wife, she gets to claim exactly zero part of your life other than as related to normal responsibilities and obligations as co-parents. Leaving the marriage means she forfeits having you as a "big part" in her life; she loses your consistent-daily caring, support, interest, sharing, love, etc., etc. That is NOT "forever" as she is trying to influence you to believe. What to do? That's more difficult. If she keeps pulling this kind of 'trip' on you, I'd suggest maybe set some firmer boundaries around your communications...maybe ask her to limit it to the kids or some such. Down the road, forgive her if you want to and when you want to. And do it for your own peace of mind and heart, and not for anybody else's. I'm sorry you're going through this. It sucks. Hugs.
Logik Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Actually I have another thought. Now please remember, this is what I think and I could be wrong. She worded this email extremely carefully. She never once mentioned anything about reconciliation or doing whatever it takes to save your marriage. She's obviously extremely guilt ridden. She thought she had you where she wanted you, right there if she changes her mind about the separation. She's also scared about you exposing the affair to the OM's wife. That would mean the OM would not be there for her any more. Since you didn't answer her calls and told her that you can't be any part of her life, she's panicking because she's losing both her options. It seems that what she wants from you now, after this email, is to forgive her and show her that you still do love her and will always be waiting for her. She wants you to cave in and take back what you said about not wanting anything to do with her. One thing that she does say that doesn't make sense is... "we have our children together, and we will always be a big part of each other's life, forever" then she goes on to say "I want you to be a big part of my life, and I want to be a big part of yours." If the children automatically make you a big part in each other's lives, what is she asking for? It's something that you already have. IMO, unless she comes to you with the whole TEN yards, being very clear about what she wants, you'll be setting yourself up to be hurt again. You can forgive her and tell her that you love her and she means everything to you and you want her to come back. Then she can string you along until she's ready to turn around and say that she never mentioned anything about reconciliation in her email and she would be right. That's why I say that the message was written extremely carefully. Then you're back at square one and she has you where she wants you again. But like I said, this is only what I think and I could be wrong. You know her well and I don't know her at all.
Author floridapad Posted October 15, 2009 Author Posted October 15, 2009 Logik, I think your right in the sense that it is a well crafted e-mail (she is a magnum cum laude and is no dummy....Intellectually that is. emotionally she is a wreck according to the counselor). She doesn't care about me telling the OM's wife. I told her yesterday and she was more than OK with it. She understood that I had to man up and get it done. She does hold quite a bit of resentment for the OM( so I hear) but she still has strong feelings for him. She is in limbo hell and know she see the only bit of security bailing. The reason she said she wasn't being anybody's second choice is because it's possible the guy may go running back to my wife and she is trying to tell me she is done (yeah right) There is no mention of reconciliation but she does seem to throw a bone with that big part of my life thing. I have read WAY to much on here to fall for that sh*t. Who does she think she is dealing with. Doesn't she know I am an LS addict and know exactly what is going through her head LOL. Yeah I'm going to sit on this and think. Unfortuantely I pick up the kids tomorrow and I know she will confront me. Her e-mail does seem wuite selfish in her apology. Very desperate. Well this is the most I have ever gotten from her so it's a big step for her. Time to set boundairs. Don't know what though. She knows she is losing a good man but she is going through affair withdrawal. She is in living hell from what I hear through the grapevine.
cyabye Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 I know what you are going through. I was asked yesterday if I would give her one last chance. The answer was NO. I was promised all kinds of stuff. She confessed the world to me. Apologized etc. I also know that her married boyfriend (one of the three she cheated on me with) recently dumped (played her) last month. She promised it would be all about me for now on. Stated she didn't do anything for me in the marriage as she was totally selfish and spoiled. I appreciate the apology almost 2 years out but also know I would have never gotten it if it weren't for her getting her heart broken by the married OM. For me personally, I am not going back. She told me I will see all her changes. Yada, yada, yada. Truth is I do not want her anymore. End of story. Good luck to you. cyabye
Chrome Barracuda Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 ...I knew you wouldn't pick up the phone, but I thought I'd try anyways.... I am not sure where all this is coming from and why today. I have lied to you before and I get why you assume I am always lying now. I know that I truly care about you, and that I have hurt you beyond repair in the past year. Looking back at this whole mess now, I see that I should have handled things differently. Things just happened way too fast for me to even think about the consequences. So she knows what she did was wrong and wasnt concerned until after things ended and you found out. Yeah Looking back you was the one that was involved in the affair. Have you noticed she never mentioned the word affair? Hmmm. Something was missing from our marriage and I should have taken care of that before I went and did what I did. NO! nothing was missing in the marriage, something was missing inside of you!!! notice the husband didnt cheat she did! and this whole line implicates that she was gonna leave anyways. So right there she gets no respect. I am really sorry that I didn't. I see now that no matter what, that will ALWAYS hang over my head, with you, or anybody else in the future. You still bring it up, and I don't blame you. You have every right to. I did it. But I am not quite as naive and gullable as you think I am. I am very well aware of what my options are at this point in my life. I am not going to take anybody else's rejects if that's what you think I am doing. I am still working everything out inside my head and inside my heart. Sometimes things are just not as simple as they seem. Even in an affair. Bullcrap! Your still talking to the OM, so all this talk about finding yourself is crap, your a liar and weak and cant withstand the addiction, and look what it destroyed, look at what she did! I know that I care about you. I care about what you do and what happens to you. I am sorry I hurt you, and saying I didn't mean to, means nothing, I understand. I know that you are still angry with me. I understand, I get it. But I know as well as you do, that we have our children together, and we will always be a big part of each other's life, forever. I want that, I need that for me and for them. I do love you, and I really miss having you in my life, even if just as a friend. I thought we were getting there...... Bullcrap! blah, blah, blah. and blah. Aint no talk of reconsiling, she wants to be friends, and keep you around as a saftey net or a friends with benefits but she wants to keep you as a failsafe! Just because you got kids means you got to be her friend. Once she's your ex, just ignore her and keep it moving. If it aint about the kids you aint got nothing to talk about! Period! Let the OM take care of her. Dont be no number 2 to no one! You need to shut her crap down and keep her outside, proverbially. I'm sorry I hurt you, I am sorry I lied to you. I am sorry I am the cause of so much internal struggle for you. I truly, truly am. You didn't deserve it. So, if and when you can find it in your heart to really forgive me, and I hope you will, I want you to be a big part of my life, and I want to be a big part of yours. Why??? Why does she deserve to be a part of your life, she had her chance and she blew it, and now doesnt even want to come back, she snooze, she'll loose. But I know that life isn't always fair, and I understand that if that never happens, I will have to live with that for the rest of my life. Please forgive me....for everything.... You forgive her when your ready to forgive. It doesnt come at her pace it comes from within you, floridapad. Forgiveness has to come on your own terms.
boldjack Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 You wife is being totally selfish. She wants everything from you (forgiveness, accceptance, love and submission)and is giving you nothing but vague platitudes in return. If you fall for this crap, then you are officially a doormat. Nothing in her e-mail mentions that her affair was wrong, just that her handling of it was wrong. She's not apologizing for betraying you, at all. You sound like you are getting your own life together. Do you want to go back to the way you felt, when you found out about the affair? My advice would be to tell her that you will only have contact with her if it concerns the kids (financial, insurance, medical, etc) but no PERSONAL contact of any kind, and make sure you still tell the MM's wife , as planned. You must be explicit, tell her on in no uncertain terms that you will have no relationship with her at all. Then go about your business, raise your kids, find a good woman, and look to a better future> Good Luck
boldjack Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 BTW, she does NOT care for you as aperson, at all.!! The sooner you realize this the better off, you will be.
trippi1432 Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 OK!! Past all the BS of trying to over analyze the crap....FL98, what does your heart tell you....do you love her....can you ever trust her again....do only what your heart tells you. You know her better than anyone else here.
FoolMeAgain Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 It's pretty transparent when it's happening to someone other than me- She's asking you for forgiveness because she's guilt-ridden. Forgiveness has nothing to do with trust. Trust has to be earned and she hasn't earned any. You can forgive her, but not trust her. She can't forgive herself --- cause she ain't done yet... This kind of guilt knocks about 75 points of the ole IQ. Her email still sounds like she's blaming you for her actions,
Steadfast Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 As usual, excellent thoughts and insights given here. Listen to them and read carefully; we have all been where you are in one form or another. For some of us (like me) this rings very true; it's wishy-washy. No good. Unless she says; "I'm sorry. I'm ready to do what it takes to save our marriage" it isn't going to happen. The only real difference between now and then for her is more people know. She is concerned and worried about how others and (to a slightly lesser extent) you regard her as a person. If YOU say "You're wonderful! I love you! I'm here" that punches her thrill ride ticket all over again. You're crappen' on her deal when you don't; you're making her face it and she doesn't want to. Know that. Know she's wrong. My advice is to do whatever is best for the kids every minute of every day. Be nice; don't talk about 'us' and don't answer any email/calls/texts unless it has to do with the kids or basic functions. Let her deal and don't give in. Hang in there. It's a hard ride but you'll make it. Just do the right thing.
Thornton Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 OK, here's my opinion. She's apologising to you now, both because she feels guilty and also because she doesn't want you to expose the affair. Perhaps she thinks that if she apologises and you're friends again, you'll have second thoughts about exposing her. The thing that strikes me is she doesn't say anything about reconciliation. It seems that she truly cares about you as a friend, and she recognises that when she stopped having feelings for you and started having them for someone else, she should have dealt with the situation differently rather than embarking upon an affair. Notice that she doesn't say she regrets the affair... she just says she wishes she had handled it differently, i.e. she should have respected you enough to end the marriage before she started another relationship. It sounds like she wants things to remain amicable, she wants you to be part of the children's lives, and part of her life as a friend. If she had ended the marriage in a considerate way rather than having an affair, being friends would have been easier, since she wouldn't have cheated on you. She's sorry for having cheated and lied, but she doesn't wish she was still with you... she simply wishes she had been more respectful and honest about not being in love with you, and she wishes she had ended the marriage properly before starting another relationship, in order to have retained your friendship. Imo the appropriate way to reply depends on how you see your future panning out. If you wish to remain her friend and keep things amicable, then respond thanking her for her apology and affirming that you're still friends and will still be around for both her and the children. If you hate her guts, respond that you cannot forgive her, and obviously you'll still be there for the children but you cannot continue to be her friend. I don't think that what she wrote suggested any hope of reconciliation though... she's just asking you to forgive her and still be friends.
2sunny Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 (edited) why should you relieve her of her guilt/ her bad behavior? let her deal with it all on her own - since she was the one who got herself into this. her words only ask for you to make life easy FOR HER! once again - it is all about what she wants. do not be her friend/a big part of her life. be decent. that's all. only correspond when the kids are involved. when the kids are old enough they can deal with her directly and you won't need to deal with her at that time. move forward - what she's asking for is for you to stand still waiting for her to make up her mind... just have you waiting and waiting... is that what you want for yourself? you deserve more. and tell the MM's Wife... this could be an easy ploy of manipulation so you end up not telling on her and her MM. don't fall for her manipulations. tell the W... the sooner the better. Edited October 16, 2009 by 2sunny
Thornton Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 I'd be inclined to take a slightly different view, and say you should try to be friendly towards your wife for the sake of your kids. This woman will be there every time you pick them up, you'll have to talk to her on the phone, and you'll have to go into her house if they want you to go up to their room to see their stamp collection or something. She'll be there at school sports days and plays, and at Christmas and birthdays, and at every other event in their lives that you might want to attend. When they graduate, when they get married, when they have kids of their own, she'll be there. It's much better to have a friendly relationship with her so there's no tension when you inevitably meet at family events. My parents divorced and they haven't spoken to each other since I left home, I can't invite both of them to the same event even if I want them both there... believe me, it's not a nice situation to put your kids in.
Gunny376 Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Not advising you as how or what to do? But were it me? This would be my reply. "Is it raining or you just pissing on my leg? You took what I gave you and had to offer you threw it in the dirt, spit on it, stomped on it and threw it away as though it was nothing. You cheated on me with another man, putting my health at risk and the welfare of our children in so doing. You took my unbridled trust in you that rather than being cherished you took for granted. Now you come to me wanting to be my friend, wanting to be a 'big part' of my life and mine yours? Life is short, too short to spend it with someone that's put me through what you've put me through. The window of opportunity is closing fast. Your losing the one man that truly loves you, the father of our children, that truly loves your / our children as only a Father could and should." You say you want her, but not at the cost of just being with her for the sake of the family. Then spell it out to her as though she was a four year old. Set some boundaries, and let her know what they are. Let her know what your conditions are for her coming back into the fold. Do a forum search for "Wolfe" and see what he did. (Let me know if you can't find it, and I'll link you when I have more time). He acted quickly and decisively, and was quickly moving on. His wife not only had emotional problems but real psych problems. He dropped a world of hurt on her, had some divorce papers delivered to her quick, fast and in a hurry like. She literally traveled on the Big Grey Dog overnight after being served, standing on the front stoop in the cold pouring rain begging for another chance. The conditions for reconciliation? IC MC You stay on your meds. You keep your appointments with your psychologist. Same with LadyJane16 ~ She found about her DH on-line emotional affair. Took off from work went straight to the attorney's office, sat there all afternoon while the clerk typed them up and laid them in his lap that same evening. The strategy? Hit them hard, hit them fast, snap them out of their fog. Don't allow them to believe they have options. Convince them they're going to lose everything and they're going to lose BIG! Its going to cost them, its not going to be pretty and its not going to be fun. You let them know! I'm not going to be your buddy, your friend, you Plan B, your option ~ all I'm going to be is your STBXH. If your having a hard time? Oh Well! Too Bad! Too Sad! You got laid off and can't pay the rent? Well there was once upon a time when you didn't have to worry about that? Car broke down, got a flat? You use to have some you could call to deal with that besides AAA? I went throught my divorce back before the internet and such fourmns such as LS ~ and basically did everything @zz backwards from what I should have done. Begging, pleading, supplicating, etc. What I in effect did was give her the time and opportunity to 'husband shop' for husband X 3, only to find out years later that I was fallback Plan B. Take a 'fools advice' If she does come back (they seldom do ~ and if they do it seldom works out) make her work her way back, make her sweat her way back. She's got to regain respect, admiration, value in you. She's got to know in her heart and mind the worth of you. She doesn't have that right now. She's thinking that she's got the goods and you've got the demand. She's thinking that she's still got what it takes to get what she wants from a man (And indeed a lot of this may simply be about re-validating that she's still got what it takes to catch some man's eye.)
Author floridapad Posted October 16, 2009 Author Posted October 16, 2009 Thank you all for your responses. I am processing everything and this is just really confusing. I'm going to sit on the e-mail for a couple of days. I see her tonight to pick up the kids. Fun Fun. I will not talk about it with her even though she will be desperate to talk about it. The apology was not precipitated by me saying I was going to tell the wife. She does not care. It was precipitated by me saying I can not be a part of her life in any fashion. She has slowly started to reach out over the last few weeks towards me. She came back from a trip with her mom and actually texted me and said she missed me. I thought nothing of it and ignored it but that is the FIRST time she said anything like that. Trust me LSers I'm not falling for any of this emotionally. Thanks to you all I am keeping them in check quite well. My wife called my friend and asked why I because so angry. He told her "he is not angry, he is just indifferent." Love that. I am detached. She knows what indifferent means. I also heard through the grapevine that she is afraid to come back because I will always hold this incident over her head. Throw it in her face. She does not understand that I only throw it in her face because I am reacting to the fact that she has still not let this man go emotionally and is still sporadically talking to him, keeping the EA going. I am reacting to her actions. I read an e-mail to her friend that said she is in the second stage of a breakup with him. Anger and bitterness. But I know that means nothing. It is going to be one hell of a week. Oddly, I do feel removed from it even though I am smack in the middle of it. I will give you all an update as they come in. Thanks again for the great insight
Gunny376 Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 You've hit the nail on the head with your latest post. She's seeing things via an emotional state, while your seeing it through a rational state of mind.
Thornton Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 This is a very tricky situation. If you back off and withdraw your friendship and support, she might see what she's missing and want to get back together... on the other hand you might completely alienate her and end up with a very difficult situation when it comes to seeing your kids. If you carry on being friendly, at least things will be amicable when it comes to your kids, but she's less likely to miss you and want you back because she still has you as a friend. It depends how you think she'll respond... will she want to get back together if you withdraw, or will you just be making the family situation harder for yourself?
MrMayI Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 man, this is tough, imho. i agree with everyone who says this doesn't indicate she's looking for reconciliation. it does seem like she sees you've gotten yourself off of the hook, and now she's casting back out to try and snag you again. what do you do? i don't have an answer. my ex has been texting and calling me daily. i almost want to stop being so damn nice to her, but we have a good thing going and our kid is relatively back to normal and totally at ease with her mommy and daddy living separately. good luck fp.
Author floridapad Posted October 16, 2009 Author Posted October 16, 2009 (edited) This OM is a true coward. He is writing his wife a letter to tell her. Below is what he sent me. I'm sure you LSers will have a field day with this one. What a F**ing pussy. Below is the letter I wrote to my wife. Please, let me know if the content is satisfactory for you. Please, let me know when you are going to call her, and I will leave the letter for her to read in the morning before you call. Please, make it a week day, so she can be by herself and have some time to think about the letter and about your call, and decide what she wants to do. Thank you My Dear Please, sit down. I need to "talk" to you... About a year ago, I started a relationship with a parishioner in the church I used to work at in (deleted) We talked by phone and texted each other, and saw each other outside of the church a few times throughout the year. Her husband got suspicious and spied on her phone account and realized that something was going on. The point is, he found out. That relationship is over. She knew up front that I would not leave you for her. I have not had any contact whatsoever with her for months now. I know that this is a definitive "deal breaker" for you, and that it will hurt you deeply. But I had to tell you anyway, because her husband is requesting me to do it before he does it himself, and because, as you have noticed, this is taking a big toll on my health. I cannot continue living like this. He wants to get confirmation from you, though. He is going to call you, to make sure that I told you. From the contacts (phone, emails, texts) that I have had with him, he seems to be a very well educated and polite person. He told me that he will be very respectful with you, and I believe him. He wants his wife and himself to stay anonymous. So, he will call you with an "unknown" or "no number" I.D. Please, answer. He wants to make sure that you know, for your own good, the kind of unfaithful husband I am. I am so very sorry. Believe or not, I love you dearly, and I want to grow old with you. I have a tiny hope that you might forgive me and move on with our lives together, but I understand if you want me out of your life immediately. Please, let me know on writing what you decide. Edited October 16, 2009 by floridapad
Ronni_W Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 I'm exposing the affair to the OM's wife this weekend and told my wife. She is OK with it. Why would she NOT be OK with it, at this point? YOU could go across as the angry, bitter, scorned ex-spouse...while SHE gets to play all innocent victim, if/when that would be in her favour. She has nothing whatsoever to lose. On the other side, what if she's actually hoping that your intervention will hasten the demise of their marriage...and planning on "being there" to console and comfort him if/when that happens? I get that she's confused and all, but how about also just a little cold and calculating?
Gunny376 Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 I agree. If he was man enough to do the deed? He should be man enough to look her in the eye and confess to the deed. All day strong in exposing him for such.
Ronni_W Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Below is what he sent me: Below is the letter I wrote to my wife. Please, let me know if the content is satisfactory for you. Please, let me know when you are going to call her, and I will leave the letter for her to read in the morning before you call. Please, make it a week day, so she can be by herself and have some time to think about the letter and about your call, and decide what she wants to do. Thank you Oh, Lawd that is too funny! He is WAY past just "a F**ing pussy", IMHO. Here's what I'd do: Tell him which day you're going to call...and then don't call. Let him just out himself, and leave it at that. But, if you do want to speak with her directly...well, for sure I'd make sure that he is home at the time of your phone call. He is TOO funny!!!
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