When did your wife stop being your lover and turn into your mother?

October 17, 2009

UF,

I agree - I think Hopeful is wonderful - her husband needs to begin to follow her lead and show some kindness and consideration.

If you want my humble opinion on your situation... I have read some of your stuff.

Giving is great, but you need to receive in return. If you give without asking for anything, it is human nature to give you nothing in return.

Instead, before you give ask for something in return. Then you may hold your partner accountable to that promise. That is a good way to teach someone not only how you want to be treated, but also allows you to learn how they wish to be treated in return.

I hope that is helpful.

October 17, 2009

All of this is great information, but if I may play devil's advocate for a moment, it seems to be contradictory to other posts I have read or any other anecdotal evidence I have come across. It seems that although women want to be treated as wonderful and sexy, I'm also reading a lot of "I'm tired" or "All he wants is sex". Is it that women do not communicate the truth effectively or that you would like control over the timing? Either way, why do women not initiate sex as much as men do? I seem to also run into this issue when the husband always has to be the one to initiate sex or intimacy and are at the mercy of the wife's timing. Is she up to being cuddled at that moment or not? Is sex in our future tonight or is it cold shower time again? Men get turned down and have to ask again later while women don't have to go through this. Am I wrong in what I'm seeing or am I wrong in the way that I'm seeing it?

Do you really want an answer or are you just making a statement?

If your striking out, try a different approach. More often than not a slap on the ass and saying "baby lets do it" won't be as effective as a slow dance to a shared song or a candlelight dinner.

Look at it like this, you think about sex every 30 seconds, she probably thinks about it every couple days... who is going to be more likely to initiate?

October 17, 2009

MR,

Stop confusing the issue and stay focused. This is not about who initiates. This is about 3 things:

- The amount you get rejected - which is a lot

- The frequency of sex - very low

- The quality of sex - very low - wife is in this mode of hurry up and get it over with

Forget about you for a moment. Lets talk about your wife. What would she say if the board asked her these questions:

- How does your husband treat you now - compared to how he did before marriage - before kids?

- Does he do his fair share around the house?

- How often does he do what he is supposed to without any reminders from you - he just gets it done so when you come home he is one step ahead of you?

- When was the last time he taught one of the kids something that took a bit of effort and patience

- When was the last time he said - you look tired - here - handed you the remote control or phone and said go relax and let me finish the ...dishes/laundry/kitchen.... I will call you for the white glove inspection when I think I am done

- Do you believe you are his highest priority in life? And the kids are second?

- How do you really feel about him?

- Would you do it all over again if you knew then what you know now?

- How happy do you think he his?

- Do you truly respect his needs/wants, does it bother you that you are ignoring a basic need he has?

Do you really want an answer or are you just making a statement?

If your striking out, try a different approach. More often than not a slap on the ass and saying "baby lets do it" won't be as effective as a slow dance to a shared song or a candlelight dinner.

Look at it like this, you think about sex every 30 seconds, she probably thinks about it every couple days... who is going to be more likely to initiate?

October 17, 2009

If you want my humble opinion on your situation... I have read some of your stuff.

Giving is great, but you need to receive in return. If you give without asking for anything, it is human nature to give you nothing in return.

Instead, before you give ask for something in return. Then you may hold your partner accountable to that promise. That is a good way to teach someone not only how you want to be treated, but also allows you to learn how they wish to be treated in return.

I hope that is helpful.

Thank you. I agree. My DH isn't really as bad as I paint him out to be. He's made a LOT of major changes to his life this year including finding a steady job, quitting smoking, quitting drinking, and as we speak he's cleaning up the house while I play on the internet without complaint. He's a good dude. I just wish he were more affectionate. That's the only thing I'm lacking, but I think sometimes he thinks he is being affectionate or romantic with me when he does everyday things and I just don't notice. Then when I ask he gets annoyed because he feels like he has done everything else, but all I do is point out the one thing he didn't do. So because he's made such drastic improvements in his life, I cut him some slack.

October 17, 2009

UF,
I agree - I think Hopeful is wonderful - her husband needs to begin to follow her lead and show some kindness and consideration.

Thank you. He's not unkind or inconsiderate, he's just not affectionate. Sometimes I wish he'd intiate a hug or a kiss just because and it just seems like he never does.

October 17, 2009

I was just like him early in our marriage. Now - and don't laugh at me - I can honestly say that my favorite daily activity is a nice long hug with my wonderful wife. It took me a while to get the idea - I am determined - but sometimes slow.

And I agree that your H has made huge strides forward this year. Sorry for not wording what I said correctly.

Thank you. He's not unkind or inconsiderate, he's just not affectionate. Sometimes I wish he'd intiate a hug or a kiss just because and it just seems like he never does.

October 17, 2009

I was just like him early in our marriage. Now - and don't laugh at me - I can honestly say that my favorite daily activity is a nice long hug with my wonderful wife. It took me a while to get the idea - I am determined - but sometimes slow.

And I agree that your H has made huge strides forward this year. Sorry for not wording what I said correctly.

No worries. I know what you meant and I sincerely appreciate the advice.

I think he is coming around as well. I realize he isn't me and I'm not him. It took me a while to be comfortable initiating sex, so I can understand why he has a hard time just giving a nonsexual hug or kiss. I'm being patient. I'm sure he'll learn.

October 17, 2009

Thank you. I agree. My DH isn't really as bad as I paint him out to be. He's made a LOT of major changes to his life this year including finding a steady job, quitting smoking, quitting drinking, and as we speak he's cleaning up the house while I play on the internet without complaint. He's a good dude. I just wish he were more affectionate. That's the only thing I'm lacking, but I think sometimes he thinks he is being affectionate or romantic with me when he does everyday things and I just don't notice. Then when I ask he gets annoyed because he feels like he has done everything else, but all I do is point out the one thing he didn't do. So because he's made such drastic improvements in his life, I cut him some slack.

Your marriage is way better than most people who frequent this forum!

I can tell you as a guy, there is nothing more frustrating than putting in a ton of effort into something, and then having the one thing wrong pointed out.

Do you know what things he enjoys? Make an if-then deal with him. Let him know that you understand he is currently expressing affection, but that you would enjoy it more if he expressed it in X way. If he does that Then you will do something he enjoys. It sounds like a compromise, but actually it's win-win. For any couple that can openly communicate, this method works well.

October 17, 2009

Your marriage is way better than most people who frequent this forum!

I can tell you as a guy, there is nothing more frustrating than putting in a ton of effort into something, and then having the one thing wrong pointed out.

Do you know what things he enjoys? Make an if-then deal with him. Let him know that you understand he is currently expressing affection, but that you would enjoy it more if he expressed it in X way. If he does that Then you will do something he enjoys. It sounds like a compromise, but actually it's win-win. For any couple that can openly communicate, this method works well.

That sounds like a good idea. I'm going to bring it up to him later. Thanks!

October 17, 2009

Sorry, mistaken posting...

Still reading.

Edited October 17, 2009 by The Midnight Rider

October 17, 2009

MR,
Stop confusing the issue and stay focused. This is not about who initiates. This is about 3 things:
- The amount you get rejected - which is a lot
- The frequency of sex - very low
- The quality of sex - very low - wife is in this mode of hurry up and get it over with

Forget about you for a moment. Lets talk about your wife. What would she say if the board asked her these questions:
- How does your husband treat you now - compared to how he did before marriage - before kids?
- Does he do his fair share around the house?
- How often does he do what he is supposed to without any reminders from you - he just gets it done so when you come home he is one step ahead of you?
- When was the last time he taught one of the kids something that took a bit of effort and patience
- When was the last time he said - you look tired - here - handed you the remote control or phone and said go relax and let me finish the ...dishes/laundry/kitchen.... I will call you for the white glove inspection when I think I am done
- Do you believe you are his highest priority in life? And the kids are second?
- How do you really feel about him?
- Would you do it all over again if you knew then what you know now?
- How happy do you think he his?
- Do you truly respect his needs/wants, does it bother you that you are ignoring a basic need he has?

I am looking for men who are having the described issue, not for advice. Thanks!

October 17, 2009

I am looking for men who are having the described issue, not for advice. Thanks!

I might be wrong here, but I believe MEM is a man who has gone through this.

I went through it too, but for me there was no fix. The Xwife was just a broken person.

October 17, 2009

Can I speak for my man?

(you know I'm going to anyway, right?)

When I changed from the sultry vixen he married to frumpy over-stressed housewife was after giving birth to multiple children. Well, there was a lot more to it, like the insults and neglect and the belief that so long as he provided the income, he shouldn't have to do anything else, for anyone, except himself. Okay, that was my answer. Here's how I think he would answer it:

"I dunno. It's like one day she's this hot awesome chick, the next she's got babies hanging all over her and puke in her hair. Gross!"

lol

October 17, 2009

Yes - we have had tension over sex and frequency of sex in our marriage. But I will respect MRs request to allow him to focus on who else got to the place where he is - as opposed to who has escaped from the place where he is.

That is fine - some people need to fully understand how they arrived at their current location before thinking about their next destination.

And without meaning to - I imagine I can be overbearing.

I might be wrong here, but I believe MEM is a man who has gone through this.

I went through it too, but for me there was no fix. The Xwife was just a broken person.

October 17, 2009

mem, I loved your post. Even though our sex life is vastly improved, I still read it thinking, man, wish H would think about that stuff.

MR, our sex life improved at the exact moment that all the children started school. (within 15 minutes, anyway)

October 17, 2009

I remember my H once telling me that I was not his mother. I responded that I was also not his maid or his cook, but that didn't stop him from treating me as such.

I agree with UF and Mem. I know the OP says they weren't looking for advice, but Mem was spot on.

We start treating you the way you are making us feel that we have to treat you. When my H became responsible for the things he was taking for granted, then he understood what I was saying to him.

No woman wants feel like she married a child or to treat her H like he is one of her children. Believe me on that. There is no point to having an overgrown child, takes the passion right out of you instantly. There is no quicker way to hearing "I have a headache" than by making her feel that she is taking care of you instead of feeling that she can count on you to take care of her as well.

October 18, 2009

NID,

You said this better then I could have.

I remember my H once telling me that I was not his mother. I responded that I was also not his maid or his cook, but that didn't stop him from treating me as such.

I agree with UF and Mem. I know the OP says they weren't looking for advice, but Mem was spot on.

We start treating you the way you are making us feel that we have to treat you. When my H became responsible for the things he was taking for granted, then he understood what I was saying to him.

No woman wants feel like she married a child or to treat her H like he is one of her children. Believe me on that. There is no point to having an overgrown child, takes the passion right out of you instantly. There is no quicker way to hearing "I have a headache" than by making her feel that she is taking care of you instead of feeling that she can count on you to take care of her as well.

October 18, 2009

I read this earlier in the day and could not stop thinking about the question.

I now have several thoughts.

1. I think I turned into "his mother" when, for example, I started taking over the roles of his mother - cleaning up after him, doing his laundry, bearing children, raising them. I did turn into a mother, of several kids. Not much time left to be a whore when he's in the mood and there's a crash and a cry in the next room.

2. He stopped being my boyfriend and started taking out or going with work colleagues for drinks, shows, dinners. While I was at home babysitting.

3. Weird thing was, we had both been out of shape for a while, a decade. Finally he reaches a 40 waist in pants (which I buy for him) and suddenly he heads to the gym ... 18 months later he is 50lbs thinner and had complaints about how attracted he was to me. I hired a trainer and lost 50lbs and then he said - no kidding - "but we have nothing in common anymore"

OK. Nothing except 20 years together, same schools, same friends, same EVERYTHING for 20 years. What we do not have in common is his going out, getting wasted and crashing in some secretary's apartment because she's his "good friend." While, I continue, I am home with the kids, his kids.

You know, I turned into a Mom when I became a Mom. My legacy is not my husband's view of me in sexy underwear, he's had that, and I have had my view of him as what I remember as a really nice younger guy whom I cherished.

This older guy, who spent a year staring at himself in the mirror, woke up at 4am to pluck stray eyebrow hairs but didn't show up for teacher conferences, graduations or even birthday parties for his parents last year ... this is not the guy I married, either.

We are still married. WTF, it's not like a new theory -- you are not the same 2 people 10 or 20 years later than when you get married. Do you want a life partner or do you want a perfect sex partner? You can buy the latter.

October 18, 2009

I read this earlier in the day and could not stop thinking about the question.

I now have several thoughts.

1. I think I turned into "his mother" when, for example, I started taking over the roles of his mother - cleaning up after him, doing his laundry, bearing children, raising them. I did turn into a mother, of several kids. Not much time left to be a whore when he's in the mood and there's a crash and a cry in the next room.

2. He stopped being my boyfriend and started taking out or going with work colleagues for drinks, shows, dinners. While I was at home babysitting.

3. Weird thing was, we had both been out of shape for a while, a decade. Finally he reaches a 40 waist in pants (which I buy for him) and suddenly he heads to the gym ... 18 months later he is 50lbs thinner and had complaints about how attracted he was to me. I hired a trainer and lost 50lbs and then he said - no kidding - "but we have nothing in common anymore"

OK. Nothing except 20 years together, same schools, same friends, same EVERYTHING for 20 years. What we do not have in common is his going out, getting wasted and crashing in some secretary's apartment because she's his "good friend." While, I continue, I am home with the kids, his kids.

You know, I turned into a Mom when I became a Mom. My legacy is not my husband's view of me in sexy underwear, he's had that, and I have had my view of him as what I remember as a really nice younger guy whom I cherished.

This older guy, who spent a year staring at himself in the mirror, woke up at 4am to pluck stray eyebrow hairs but didn't show up for teacher conferences, graduations or even birthday parties for his parents last year ... this is not the guy I married, either.

We are still married. WTF, it's not like a new theory -- you are not the same 2 people 10 or 20 years later than when you get married. Do you want a life partner or do you want a perfect sex partner? You can buy the latter.

gosh, how depressing... why are you still with him? Do you still love him? I think it's quite normal to get through a mid-life crisis at some stage, but isn't he pushing it a bit?

October 18, 2009

I'll go out on a limb here and guess that it took you way less than an hour to put on hooker makeup and some stockings. It probably took closer to 10 minutes. I'm sure you take longer than that to get ready to meet your friends ar Starbucks.

As to the porn, I'm willing to bet money the guy was into the outfits and the kink before the porn. He was just going on line to see that which he liked. But rather than stay with porn, he asked you to do it for him. Of course, when you guys were going out at first and you were crazy about him, you would have been happy to do this for him.

Sorry that the sex with him sucked, but did you ever let him know what YOU liked, maybe? Be honest now.

My interest in being sexy towards my xH dramatically slowed about 2 years into our relationship, not long after we moved in together. Knowing that we saw each other everyday it didn't seem to need to be this act of bonding for not knowing when we would see each other again anymore. I did try to rekindle my interest, but once he got seriously into porn, my interest waned even more. We couldn't ever have vanilla sex. It ALWAYS had to invlove outfits, hooker makeup and an hour of prep time. I can't even tell you how much money he blew on outfits, high heels, glow in the dark lipstick. Ridiculous. I have kids, and even if I didn't, that's a pain in the a*s to do every single time. Not worth it (especially because sex with him pretty much sucked anyhow). I had plenty of nice nighties, but apparently, that wasn't good enough, he wanted costumes. Eventually I just decided that since he wanted a porn star so bad, he could go ahead and find one.

October 18, 2009

Baroness,

That is a sad story and I felt bad for you when reading it.

I will say that for younger women reading your post - you need to realize that if you have a good husband - the comment "not much time left to be a whore when he's in the mood" opens a door that you do not want to open in your marriage.

That comment is akin to the man saying - after a long commute, a tense workday, helping around the house and with the kids: "I don't have much energy or interest left to listen to you tell me how upset you are because your mother made some insensitive remarks about your parenting style earlier today."

It is easy to deprioritize your partners needs and to be dismissive of the things they require to feel loved.

I read this earlier in the day and could not stop thinking about the question.

I now have several thoughts.

1. I think I turned into "his mother" when, for example, I started taking over the roles of his mother - cleaning up after him, doing his laundry, bearing children, raising them. I did turn into a mother, of several kids. Not much time left to be a whore when he's in the mood and there's a crash and a cry in the next room.

2. He stopped being my boyfriend and started taking out or going with work colleagues for drinks, shows, dinners. While I was at home babysitting.

3. Weird thing was, we had both been out of shape for a while, a decade. Finally he reaches a 40 waist in pants (which I buy for him) and suddenly he heads to the gym ... 18 months later he is 50lbs thinner and had complaints about how attracted he was to me. I hired a trainer and lost 50lbs and then he said - no kidding - "but we have nothing in common anymore"

OK. Nothing except 20 years together, same schools, same friends, same EVERYTHING for 20 years. What we do not have in common is his going out, getting wasted and crashing in some secretary's apartment because she's his "good friend." While, I continue, I am home with the kids, his kids.

You know, I turned into a Mom when I became a Mom. My legacy is not my husband's view of me in sexy underwear, he's had that, and I have had my view of him as what I remember as a really nice younger guy whom I cherished.

This older guy, who spent a year staring at himself in the mirror, woke up at 4am to pluck stray eyebrow hairs but didn't show up for teacher conferences, graduations or even birthday parties for his parents last year ... this is not the guy I married, either.

We are still married. WTF, it's not like a new theory -- you are not the same 2 people 10 or 20 years later than when you get married. Do you want a life partner or do you want a perfect sex partner? You can buy the latter.

October 19, 2009

I'll go out on a limb here and guess that it took you way less than an hour to put on hooker makeup and some stockings. It probably took closer to 10 minutes. I'm sure you take longer than that to get ready to meet your friends ar Starbucks.

As to the porn, I'm willing to bet money the guy was into the outfits and the kink before the porn. He was just going on line to see that which he liked. But rather than stay with porn, he asked you to do it for him. Of course, when you guys were going out at first and you were crazy about him, you would have been happy to do this for him.

Sorry that the sex with him sucked, but did you ever let him know what YOU liked, maybe? Be honest now.

No, it did take an hour, it involved getting a shower, doing my hair, etc. (And btw, I f-ing hate Starbucks). And you would be out money on that bet. Porn came first (and last, and everywhere in between). He would spend three hours a day with porn after work, more in the late evening. Every day. When he moved out, I discovered that his need to keep his porn handy at all times led him to store his movies behind my kid's videos. I could have strangled him. Apparently he didn;t care if the kids accidentally popped one of his movies in.

I maintained all the computers in the house, and his crashed continually because of all the viruses he'd get from his habits. His porn habit was a problem as soon as he learned how to use the internet.

Sure, we discussed it.But like most everything else, he didn't really care about my opinion.

Edited October 19, 2009 by MistyK

October 20, 2009

No, it did take an hour, it involved getting a shower, doing my hair, etc. (And btw, I f-ing hate Starbucks). And you would be out money on that bet. Porn came first (and last, and everywhere in between). He would spend three hours a day with porn after work, more in the late evening. Every day. When he moved out, I discovered that his need to keep his porn handy at all times led him to store his movies behind my kid's videos. I could have strangled him. Apparently he didn;t care if the kids accidentally popped one of his movies in.

I maintained all the computers in the house, and his crashed continually because of all the viruses he'd get from his habits. His porn habit was a problem as soon as he learned how to use the internet.

Sure, we discussed it.But like most everything else, he didn't really care about my opinion.

I once found out that my xH was hiding his porn by removing the insides of our vhs tapes and replacing them with the reels of a porno.. imagine my embarassment when at "poker night" at my house with two other couples I popped in the movie "Forrest Gump" for background noise, and we were all treated to "Big D*cks, Little Chicks" instead.

I never hosted poker night again.

October 20, 2009

MEN!

This goes out to the husbands out there. When did your wife stop being the sultry, flirty, seductress that dressed sexy for you, flirted heavily with you, and couldn't wait to jump your bone(s) the moment nobody was looking into that person that dresses like she escaped from a rummage sale, flirts with you by not killing you in your sleep, and jumps your bones only when begged for six weeks? Can you pinpoint a time since you got married? Was there a turning point? Did she change back to the hot nymph that you married or do you continue to suffer in silence?

It's all part of women's evil plan to take over the world. We lure men with our sexy ways then enjoy becoming completely sexless to the dunders of the monotomy of everyday life.

More seriously, when the sex stops in a marrige, contrary to what alot of men would like to believe, it's not just woman's fault *only*. Alot of men also stop wooing their wives. They stop doing their own flirting or courting. They stop making her feel special.They stay up late to watch porn on HBO. They oggle other women. They complain because shes can't be some stupid porn fantasy inbetween raising the kids and doing his laundry. And then complain when their own partner doesn't feel like having sex with them. So if you are a guy and sex has stopped in your marriage, while part of it is your wife's fault, the other part is your fault. If you want your wife to respond to you, make her feel like a woman. And no, asking to watch porn doesn't make any woman feel like a woman. Try putting more effort in it then just that. That's sad and pathetic.

October 20, 2009

Thanks everybody for your posts! Keep them coming, this is all VERY interesting! It seems that once children were introduced, things changed in the most drastic way. Your no longer lovers, your partners. Do you guys discuss these issues with your husbands/wives and if so, who initiates the discussions? How did/do they turn out?

Mem, thank you especially for your post. I think that if more marriages had this type of honesty and communication, there would be fewer divorces!

NowhereToHide, exactly where in my post did I say this was me? Read not just my post, but ALL posts on this site concerning marriage and they all seem to be going the same direction. "My wife stopped having sex with me unless I bug the hell out of her and she relents to shut me up." I would like to know if this is what marriage turns into eventually and if so, can it be changed. Are the husbands, wives doing something that can be changed and if so, what? Why is there such a disconnect between husbands and wives after marriage? NowhereToHide, I didn't ask you for your advice, I only asked for your experiences. If you can give me that, that would be great. If you don't like the way I asked the question because it is not in a loving sensitive way, answer a different post.

My apologies, Midnight. I didn't read your post correctly.

There was definitely a transition period for my husband and me and it definitely hit with starting our family. It wasn't so much with pregnancy, but everything afterwards. Especially with breast-feeding -- my libido was zero which is not be at all. And the sheer exhaustion with taking care of the kids, my relationship with my husband, including sex, was temporarily put on the back burner.

But I would say that our sex life rekindled when I started to feel a bit freer from the childcare... kids got a little older, a little independent. And when I started getting more interested, it just ignited from there. Now, we have sex 3-4 times per week and it's great every time.

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When did your wife stop being your lover and turn into your mother?

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