OpenGL Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Objective I am going to start a series of posts on this forum to dispense the real truth about the game for my fellow men who are still lost and looking for answers out there or just want to confirm what they already experience and observe. This is the real truth, not the chick speak, the captain save-a-hos, or pvssy-whipped, men out there will try to tell you. Of course you are free to disagree in part or as a whole with everything and I welcome the debate that will surely ensure from my series of posts. Disclaimer This post and all post previous and following only applies men who lead "normal" lifestyles, or approximately 98% of men on this planet. This does not apply to men who make over 250k/year (by themselves, single income), men who inherited or born into families who have a net worth into the 10+ millions, are famous (movie/tv star, model, famous criminal, etc), and politicians/powerful political leaders. If you feel you can reach this 2%, by all means ignore this post, this does not apply to you. In addition to this, by the law of large numbers, there will always be the outliner men who are able to defy the numbers and achieve was most guys in their situation can't, such as a fat ugly guy with no money dating very good looking women. Yes, in a world of 3 billion men and 3 billion women, you are guaranteed to find a sizeable number of outliners but at statistically insigificant percentage. So don't insult my or my fellow men's intelligent by posting your statistically insignificant annedotes. Part 1: Looks As I discussed in a previous post, looks in the game matter a great deal. They matter more than any women on the face of this earth will ever admit to you in person. In cold approach interactions in day game or night game, your looks will 100% determine to whether the particular chick you are approaching is going to give you the time of day (this is why it is better to wait for eye contact, if possible, more on this in a future post). Now, with that said, in cold approaching, some women will talk to you even if you didn't pass their looks test if they are bored, but as far as any kind of esclation past talking you are already done. You won't be able to charm your way past your looks. If you passed the looks test, the ratio drops more to something resembling 80% looks 20% game. So you still have a chance to fck it up, especially if you barely passed her looks test, but your interactions from this point is still greatly based on looks. Well, the good news is that was for cold approaching for women you don't know. The bad news is it's not too much better for women in your social circle, and the very bad news is it's even WORSE for online dating (there will be another post dedicated to this subject). Women who you meet in your social circle will give you a bit of leadway on your looks and honestly this is the best way to meet women if you happen to have access to a large social circle. Looks are still heavily weighted in this case though, about 70% looks, 20% game, 10% social proof (how cool you are within the group). So how good looking are you and how do you tell? Here is an easy well to get a rough estimate: *If you're fat and under 6' tall, see note 1. 1. Buy some very nice clothes (but keep it casual), shave, style your hair as if you were going out for the night to your local dive bar. 2. Go to your most popular mall at 1pm on a saturday afternoon. IMPORTANT: go alone. 3. Buy something from one of the mall's upper end stores, it can just be socks or something but get a big bag to put it in with the brand's logo on it. 4. Walk from one end of the mall to the other slowly, with a very casual and cocky swaggar. Sunclasses can help. 5. Look for eye contact. When I say eye contact, I don't just mean a random glance in your direction, I mean someone looks directly at your eyes or eye scans your body for 3 seconds or more. *Note 1: If you're in this category you are a 3 and below. Thats it, you're done. If you got no eye contact, you are a 4 and below. If you got eye contact but only from fat chicks, you are a 5-6. If you got eye contact from decent look chicks, you are a 7+ and should take pride in the way you look, you are doing soemthing right. Me personally, I am about a 4 and can hit 5 on good days. Don't feel bad if you are in this camp as the vast majority of fit/atheletic guys fall within the 4-5 range. So how are "good looks" for men broken down? Well sadly about half of it is out of your control due to genetics, such as height, hair type, hair color, eye color, bone structure, etc. If you were born with the worst genetics, no matter how much you take care of your body, groom yourself, and dress yourself, you will max out at a 5, MAYBE a 6 (I'm the prime example, altough my genetics aren't the worst). Since you can't change your genetics (yet), here is what I have found to be true about things you can change: 1. If you are fat and our of shape, regardless of height, this should be your number 1 priority. Depending on your genetics you could go from a 1 to a 10 at best, and a 1 to a 4 at worst. 2. If you already have an average build, as in your as average weight, slightly underweight, or slightly overweight, you will likely only gain 1 point from getting ripped. It still may be worth it since going from a 4 to a 5 could open up a lot of doors. 3. There are very expensive ways to overcome some genentic disadvantages such as skin complextion and smoothing, acne clearing, hair removal, fat storage removal in weird places, etc, but there are diminishing returns on this depending on your height. If you are 5'6 or below none of this may be worth doing as you won't gain much at all in the attractiveness scale, 5'-7 to 5'10 is sketchy. 5'11-6' plus and it's definately worth it. Lesson for today Looks matter a great deal, so if you are not getting the results you want, the first thing you need to do is improve your looks and you need to understand depending on your genetics you may max out pretty low. Yes, that means don't worry about game, don't worry about pick up lines, techniques, personality, etc, your priority should be looks until you are sure you have maxed them. That means the gym, clothes, and grooming. Improving your looks is the thing thats going to most improve your results.
MissJoness Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 This applies when it comes to men as well. I feel men are much more shallow than women. They won't even hold a door open for you if you aren't pretty enough.
AD1980 Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 I agree.contrary to popular belief women are juss as superficial maybe mroe then Men.. All this stuff about game or pick up artists cant magically make a women interested in you if theres no physical atrraction at all from her end to you then you have no shot no matter how charming you are
Author OpenGL Posted October 15, 2009 Author Posted October 15, 2009 This applies when it comes to men as well. I feel men are much more shallow than women. They won't even hold a door open for you if you aren't pretty enough. Did you even read the entire post that fast? Yes, men are shallow too, but women are even more shallow as they are a lot more choosy (looks wise) at BOTH the initial part of LTRs and casual hookups. Also, more women date up than men date down.
Crow9726 Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 I take exception to that. I personally hold the door for any and all women...regardless of looks or age. What burns me is the fact that I am probably a 4 or 5 at best...and seldom receive a thank you for providing common courtesy. Women who are more on my ilk tend to thank me more often than women who think they are in a league above me. Manners are lacking for both sexes nowadays.
MissJoness Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Did you even read the entire post that fast? Yes, men are shallow too, but women are even more shallow as they are a lot more choosy (looks wise) at BOTH the initial part of LTRs and casual hookups. Also, more women date up than men date down. Men are more shallow, waaay more shallow than women. They are the biggest consumers of pinup magazines, and porn.
AD1980 Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Men are more shallow, waaay more shallow than women. They are the biggest consumers of pinup magazines, and porn. Men are more shallow coming from somebody who hates that short men exist??
GorillaTheater Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Men are more shallow, waaay more shallow than women. They are the biggest consumers of pinup magazines, and porn. We should all be as deep as you, MissJoness.
AD1980 Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Open the one thing you arent considering though is that not all women have the same tastses.. I dotn think im all that attractive but ive had at times cute girls into me and ugly girls who wouldnt give me the time of day and vice versa.. Sometimes theres no rhyme or reason for why a certain women will think your attratcive and another might think youre ugly..
MissJoness Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Men are more shallow coming from somebody who hates that short men exist?? I don't hate short men, they are just not my preference. The only preference I have is height, and that is it. I'm not expecting a guy to look like a GQ model, and drive an expensive sports car.
carhill Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Looks matter a great deal, so if you are not getting the results you want, the first thing you need to do is improve your looks and you need to understand depending on your genetics you may max out pretty low. You probably won't be surprised to learn that the OP is just as important at 50 as it is at 20. I've noted, markedly, that aging women often still mistakenly think they're hot like they were at 20 and 30 (and likely were then) and discriminate men just as brutally as when younger. I smile as they walk on by, reveling in their obviousness. Looking forward to your next part. I'll work on the middle age spread, thanks.
sumdude Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Men are more shallow, waaay more shallow than women. They are the biggest consumers of pinup magazines, and porn. C'mon, those Cosmo mags by the register? What is every headline about again? The steamy romance novels? It's a different kind of porn but it is what it is.
sumdude Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) Reality is that most people pair up with someone who is equally attractive. Of course a really good buzz can skew things on occasion. I've seen this first hand. Near the end of my marriage I had let myself go. I was really overweight and in bad shape. Lots of things contributed to that but not important now. I've been at least somewhat overweight most of my life. I lost 50 lbs. Interest levels from women totally changed. My internal image didn't get it at first.. now I'm starting to get it. I actually did the hot or not thing and to my surprise I rated in the high 8's. Edited October 15, 2009 by sumdude
carhill Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Isn't 'equally attractive' more subjective than what the OP is talking about? We each have differing attractive 'triggers' which cause us to find another human physically (since we're talking about looks) attractive. I've known plenty of women (and men) who are oblivious to their 'looks' and how their appearance affects others. Are they more or less or equally attractive? Who decides? FWIW, OP, I do my test in airports and hotels, since I like to travel. I'm finding a wide range of women who seem to find me approachable and friendly. Good looking? Doubt it, but, again, such is subjective. How could I possibly know? I think I can work on everything in your OP except the hair, since I have none
sumdude Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Isn't 'equally attractive' more subjective than what the OP is talking about? I couldn't come up with a better phrase. Sure it's subjective but generally I think people come pretty close when judging others attractiveness. Seriously, when your hanging with the boys and see women and talk about how they look you might say "well I prefer blondes" or something like that but you'll rarely have that much difference in how generally attractive they are. Particularly with facial features. One might say she's an 8 while another a 7 but it's splitting hairs.
AD1980 Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Reality is that most people pair up with someone who is equally attractive. That can be subjective..People either find u attractive or they dont i doubt many people go around saying oh hes kinda cute but im a 8 and hes a 7 or 6 Obviously theryes extremes but for the most part id say most peple are in the average range falling either a little above or below..The extremely good looking and extremely ugly people are a very small percentage of the popularion..
AD1980 Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Oh and another kinda corny test can be opening a door and holding it for a girl.WHen its really hot girls i usually get a half assed thanks and not evne a look my way if its average or just plain cute girls i usally get a long thank you and smile..
GorillaTheater Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Reality is that most people pair up with someone who is equally attractive. Personally I think there's a fair bit of truth in this, at least early in the relationship (I know people who have been effected by time a little more than their spouses). When my wife and I started dating, it wasn't unusual for me to be mistaken for one of her brothers. That either has a bearing on similar looks or something much sicker.
justwantlove Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 I am also very interested in part two. Have any of you read the book The Game? Id be so interested in studying the hole ART of being a pick up artist. Theres a lot m ore depth to it then i would have though, just going into that environment and holding my own would be an awesome experience. Most of the stuff ive seen about it is for men picking up women though.
SummerLady Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Ok I get it. Make the position extreme and your point is made. I do not agree with this post at all. In fact I have seen more pretty women with below average looking men, in fact some are my closest friends. The ones where you scratch your head and wonder, wow how did that happen?? I have to say I rarely see the the reverse of this. Looks are important but more importantly is chemistry. Just because someone is good looking does not mean you will have chemistry with them at all. This is simple and put it to the test if you want to know the answer. I sure have....I would take average looks and great chemsitry any day of the week....Hands down!
gypsy_nicky Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 I would take average looks and great chemsitry any day of the week....Hands down! if the guys wallet was loaded yes you would.
SummerLady Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 if the guys wallet was loaded yes you would. Nope your way off.....Assumptions get you in trouble.......
gypsy_nicky Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 this is a really good post because> a) it reveals woman's double standard that she tends not to be invested in looks but in reality its more on equal par as with the men. b) the social conditioning of women as looking for status is surely diminishing in our present society due to women earning more or equally than men. The downside to this, because this social conditioning into searching for a males status may still linger, women are more pickier than ever-it takes more than a fat wallet now, you now also have to look the part. I also agree with the post that we tend to go for someone equal in the looks department. If the OP wouldn't mind, I would like it if you could shed more light on the attractiveness scale because I'm pretty much perplexed by it?? This scale applies mostly to the face if I'm correct. I mostly rule out 4 and below as borderline fat to obese and the stereotypical ugly face. 5 and above well it starts to become iffy, I really can't tell between a 5 and an 8. The 9's and 10's I can easily spot because they have an immediate effect on you, that goes for both sexes. It's not hard to see what women see in Johnny Depp and Brad Pitt. Nor is it hard to ask why Kate Moss or Heidi Klum is attractive. Thanks!
WineCountry Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 I dont know why folks debate on this. For every 10 women that are shallow, there are 10 men that are just as shallow. It's a dog eat dog world out there in the dating scene, and it doesn't matter if you are a male or a female. Both sexes get judged hard by the other. It's just a fact. We can all sit here and say one is more shallow than the other, but i personally don't believe that's true. I think BOTH sexes are just as shallow, and the better looking a person is, REGARDLESS of sex, the more shallow they can be, generally speaking.
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