Be Pro-Choiced or at Least Reasonable, No Fanatics that Didn't Read Post

[friendly7]

I'm SO SO SORRY! for the length of this post, but I thought I should be completely clear on things. If you read this and answer it, thank you very much for your time. If you want to check out here, I understand completely.

 

I have made pretty bad choices with men b/c of low self-esteem I think and also because I'm a pretty submissive female, and I think that predatorial men are drawn to that because they feel they can control me. I'm also short and petite.

 

I was married, and finally got away because he was abusive. I read a book about the patterns of abusive men right before I left, but didn't heed it's advice in my next relationship because I am African American and have dated all races. I was married to a Caucasian and my family has always tried to pressure me into dating my own race--especially after the abuse--my family sort of gave me the "I told you so kind of thing," because I was married interacially. And since I didn't heed their advice before I got married, I ignored the book and dated the African American guy. I feel shame for caving into their racism now, but thought it was the right thing to do at the time.

 

I know it seems silly, but a handsome African American guy had never been serious about me before because I speak very properly and am on the slim side. Black guys where I'm from just weren't interested in that. So the majority of the guys that have liked me tended to be Caucasian. So I kind of ignored the abusive traits the African American guy I dated after my marriage displayed in the beginning of the relationship and got involved with him anyway because of this fact and family influence. Yet, he turned out to be highly abusive.

 

Once I got away from that relationship, I thought eharmony would be the only way to find a guy that was like me. I'm very sensitive and sweet when it comes to relationships and predators seem to find me instead of sweet guys. I would imagine a guy like me might be too shy to approach me most of the time, or be trapped in a negative controlling relationship of his own.

 

I then moved out of the area and found that eharmony had a relationship test that married couples could take take to determine their compatibility. It's supposed to help couples figure out how to improve their relationship, but I figured if the guy I dated took that test, it would show where our incompatibilities lay and I would determine at that point if it was worth getting into the relationship. Well, that was stupid. I guess I was just being too nice. Because the guys did what they could to get around the test. I was working in a bar and the first guy I dated said he was married and his wife cheated on him. He had left his marriage like me.

 

This immediately made me sympathetic b/c I'd been through the same thing. He said he'd marry me and we'd have kids and he wanted to settle down and we didn't need the test for that. I bought into it only to find out that his wife cheated on him because he asked her to participate in threesomes with other women. When I refused, he started to date other women at the same bar, and I stopped dating him. The women began harassing me over him and other desperate nonsense. So I was like whatever, and moved on though I think the idiot still thinks we're together.

 

I then went out with a guy just to spend the time. I didn't enter it seriously and planned to do eharmony when I was ready to get serious. But I was lonely and embarrassed after the guy at my workplace and just wanted a friend.

 

Well, this guy turned out to be so sweet. He fell for me and asked me to be his girlfriend, wanted to spend his life with me etc. My only issue with him was that I don't like guys that check out other women on TV or in public or in general when they're in a relationship. I'm somewhat possessive and know this about myself. I want a partner that is like that and respects that in me. I know not everyone is possessive like me, so that's another reason I wanted to do eharmony to find someone that is. But I was still kind of thinking that the test would be enough.

 

Well he basically did the same thing when it came to the test. He said he'd marry me and we didn't need it since we had so much in common. We actually did have a lot in common so at first it was okay.

 

But in the beginning I had a sense that he was looking at other women and he would make comments that annoyed me about women on TV and in his past etc. I confronted him about it and said I didn't think it would work out because of the way I am. And he kind of thought about it and thought maybe he was looking at other women and worked to change it a bit. We don't go out together much, but I'm mostly a homebody anyway. But I know we stay in to cut down on my feeling like that. And if we're out in public he hugs me and kisses me to show that he loves me. He seems to feel that I'm jealous because I need more love, which is sweet, but not accurate. I'm like that because I'm just really sensitive and need someone else who is. The public affection works when we're out though, but I still just had this feeling about him. But overall, things were okay.

 

In my past before I accepted that I was in just another abusive relationship with the African American guy, I tried to have a baby for over a year with him. He already had a son from a previous relationship, so it seemed like I wasn't able to get pregnant. So in my current relationship we weren't using birth control. I honestly didn't think I was fertile. But I was open to a baby with my current boyfriend from the face he had put on for me. Well to my great surprise, I got pregnant. I was happy at first because I'm in my early 30's and was okay with having a baby with the right guy.

 

Well of course he started to show his true color after I got pregnant. Though a guy that many women would put up with, I don't think he's the right one for me.

 

I have always had a dream about starting a business and have tried a few ventures when I was with him. Though they didn't work, and I can understand frustration with that as an issue in a relationship, I still know he's not the right guy for me.

 

I have a writing job which is okay. But it's hard work (I have to write 700-1200 words an hour) and pays very little. It's become really hard to write 8 hours a day with the nausea and morning sickness of pregnancy. So I kind of kept trying to find something else I could do for money rather than that. Even though I was looking for a business, it was mostly out of the misery and sickness rather than the inconsideration of not bringing in money. Well in one situation I got scammed. And then finally I just hired other writers to help with the writing and split the profits. But my money is the same or better because I have more people creating more work than I could turn in myself. But the fact that I did something other than just writing myself made him make a joke that I know had more meaning than a joke. It was a joke about 'Hooters." And though he said he was just kidding I knew he wasn't.

 

After a few hours, he asked me more about what I was doing with my writing and started to understand my choice because of the nauseau etc. He realized that what I did was okay and that I was making the same money, and now approves of it. He has apologized furiuosly for making the joke. But that little lapse has made me realize what I couldn't see before or what he hid so well. And also made me realize that he is emotionally abusive in a sense.

 

Like to me, if I have an issue with someone I'm in a relationship with I break up with them, discuss it with them, get therapy if I feel it's worth it etc. The only reason I would cheat on someone is if they cheated on me and I was angry. Tit for tat's not the best thing, but that's the only reason I think cheating is acceptable.

 

But since I hit my 30's I just leave cheaters. But I realized two things when he made that Hooters joke.

 

1. If he doesn't like something that I'm doing, he feels it's grounds to cheat on me.

2. And he's willing to use something that he knows will hurt me to control me or keep me from doing something he doesn't want me to do which is a sign of emoitonal abuse.

 

I don't think he'd hit me within the relationship, but I worry that there might be retaliation if I leave. Which is weird because I really didnt' see it going in this time. But I guess that's because this is my final lesson in learning to trust my intuition. That's the only indicator I had going into the last two relationships. Just that something might be off. No behavior like the other times. .

 

The book I read about abusers said that the reason they abuse is because they see women as objects and not people. They see women as people that should do what women are expected to do based on their mother's, or their view of society etc. And when the woman they're with doesn't live up to the expectations or ideas they have, or she doesn't act like they want her to act, they have the right to retaliate with emotional or physical violence.

 

Since the Hooters comment, he's starting to show himself more as an emotionally abusive person. I notice that he called Lifetime and Oxygen the 'chick,' channels when I'm watching them, and in most instances, he doesn't refer to girls as women etc. He mostly calls them chicks now, another trait of abusers. Before he didn't call them anything, the issue never came up.

 

And he also made a joke when we were watching a scene on tv about a woman that was abused by her husband and he said something along the lines of 'maybe she deserved it.' I honestly don't think he'd hit a girl within a relationship, but I'm sure he identifies with the abuser mindset at this point. Throughout that day he'd been saying things to me like he needed to set an example for me b/c I hadnt' taken a shower that day by taking one himself. And he jokingly called me by the name of his neighbor downstairs--whose really filthy and messy--when he saw the dish rack was a little dusty.

 

We were also watching a documentary about a woman on trial for killing her rich older boyfriend. The woman had cheated with the boyfriend's best friend and they were both on trial for the murder. Now the older boyfriend had a heroine problem and was incapacitated a lot of the time requiring the girlfriend to help him shoot up and clean and groom him in weird ways like clipping his toenails and stuff. But, I'm sure the girlfriend knew this before she moved in with the guy and also I'm sure she was enjoying the money he was giving her and that's why she didnt' leave. Well anyway, my boyfriend after hearing about the heroine issues with the boyfriend, said "no wonder she cheated on him." He didn't say, "why didn't she just leave him?" instead he said, "no wonder she cheated on him."

 

Also when I told him I didn't like the Hooters joke, he asked me if I wanted to make a Chippendale's joke. And I realized that he's just the cheater in his heart I suspected he was, but he just hid it from me to make the relationship work.

 

To play devil's advocate, I'm really sick most of the time, so I've been less active than before. The dish rack might have been something I would have caught earlier on, but I still cleaned it and clean the house regularly even though I'm sick. But also when I was feeling better I was taking a shower first thing every day and moving around more. But it's not like I stink or am not groomed. I am groomed and clean. I just hadnt' taken my shower that day. I'm just freaking pregnant in the morning! But I realize now though that he is an abuser just like the rest and I can't date anybody without going on eharmony or if that doesn't work, making sure by having a therapist help me make the choice.

 

But I'm about to have an abortion and leave this guy. I know that he feels it's okay to cheat on people because he's annoyed at things they do and though I feel he is somewhat faithful right now, I have a feeling he's betrayed my trust in a way like a stip club or Hooters already. I know many women don't care about this, but I do and he made me the promise that he wouldn't go those places.

 

I know that if I don't get out now, I will regret it later. I decided to post this and see if people have any opinions or advice.

 

As far as the abortion, I'm not too far along and can still get one. I also know that I don't want to have a child with an abusive guy for any reason. There are so many things that are genetic and a child needs the input and influence of its father as well. If he is the child's father not only will the child have some of his genetic emotional makeup, the child will also be affected by his opinions and world views. And that's just not right. I've worked as a teacher before and studied psychology in adults and children. Knowing all these things ahead of time, I just feel like an abortion is the right thing unless I'm going to stay with the guy or I feel sure. And I'm not. If I had known to trust my intuition in the beginning I wouldn't be here, but I honestly thought that the only thing I should watch out for in relationships was evidence of abusive patterns and that it wasn't fair to break up with people based on a feeling or an unfounded suspicion.

 

But he didn't display abusive traits until I got pregnant. Neither did the other one that wanted the threesomes, until he asked for the threesomes. But now that I know about intuition, and really have evidence that it's not foolish or false to follow it, how can I ignore it and have this baby?

Edited October 15, 2009 by friendly7

[Bejita463]

Well, firstly. Everyone is pro-choice AND pro-life. The question is for or against abortion.

 

 

That out of the way, I can understand either path you might take, and I personally would not demonize you for having an abortion if you do not think you could hand having the child. However, do keep in mind that the sins of the father do not necessarily pass down onto the child.

 

You don't need to forget anything the father has done to love the child, and you don't have to remember anything to decide you aren't ready to have it.

 

It is not about him, (unless he wants to keep the child himself, which would complicate things) it is about you.

[torranceshipman]

I'm sorry but I am failing to see how your current boyfriend is abusive. I think you are being over sensitive (unless he has said/done a lot more that you've not written in your post).

[TaraMaiden]

I recognise the right for women to have abortions, but I personally do not agree with them, and I certainly do not think that your reasons for having an abortion are either justified or valid. I think that your evaluation of your child's psyche is warped by your experience and jaded by your opinion of the father.

 

You are carrying a human life with no fault in this matter at all.

You were originally happy to be pregnant, but now you've changed your mind based on your perception of the man you are with.

Personally, I don't think that's near good enough a reason to want to terminate the child's life, given that you were glad to be carrying it initially.

 

Secondly - you sound like hard work, and you have extremely high expectations of people, which i think stems from a revolt against your self-esteem issues. You've gone from one extreme to the other.

 

Forget being short.

I'm pretty short and petite too, and I don't let that have anything to do with my esteem....That's irrelevant, to my mind.

Your guy has a yappy mouth, but I don't see him as being verbally abusive...

he needs a lesson in manners and respect, sure.... but I've seen a lot worse abuse than this. he just sounds immature....

 

Maybe you could do with joint counselling, because you seem to have very high expectations of people, meeting your standards.

Do you know whether you meet his?

 

Lastly - when did you last go to Africa?

 

You're not 'African-American'....

 

You're an American that happens to be black.

I've never heard anyone call themselves Jamaican-American, or Black-Canadian...

What is it with this particular label?

if you want to take a stand against the racism of your family, quit with the label.

 

I'm Italian, Scottish and British, with Jewish blood... what do you want me to call myself?

[dreamergrl]

I'm failing to see also of the abuse.

 

I am not for abortion unless it's a life and death matter, and that is also a fine line (how far you are a long, and the complications).

 

For this situation....

There's other options, like adoption. There's many people out there who want a baby but can't have one, or have had complications in the past.

 

Perhaps you don't get on well with the guy, but who's to say he wont be a good father. Have you talked with him about it?

 

I just saw Tara's post. I echo that quite a bit.

Edited October 15, 2009 by dreamergrl

[Bejita463]

You were originally happy to be pregnant, but now you've changed your mind based on your perception of the man you are with.

Personally, I don't think that's near good enough a reason to want to terminate the child's life, given that you were glad to be carrying it initially.

 

That is what I was trying to get at, though I think you worded it better.

[2sure]

I am pro-choice, in fact I just spoke in a public forum last night regarding the issue. Abortion is a terrible thing. Abortion should NOT be used instead of birth control...which is what you are doing.

 

However, you sound unstable and not in touch with reality so an abortion in your case could be considered medically necessary.

[dreamergrl]

I can't say it enough...

ADOPTION

[friendly7]

I understand how you don't see abuse yet. But what you have to see in his words is the thought pattern of how a woman should be and what she should be doing. I guess you had to have been beaten up by a guy who started out saying little small comments that can be dismissed alont the lines. It's called escalation. Also the fact that he hid it until I was pregnant is also very strange.

 

As far as the no wonder she cheated stuff and the chippendales stuff. I don't think that's abuse, just that he's not above cheating.

 

But the abuse comes in when he overtly says something he knows will hurt me when he percieved me to have disobeyed him. Instead of just confronting me with the issue and discussing things. Then also the comments about the house cleaning and other things in the indirect and cruel ways and always claims to be joking. It's a head game I've seen before. He's hidden all of these feelings if he ever felt them until I got pregnant. And I'm starting to suspect it's because he might feel I can't go anywhere now. Or maybe he just doesn't want the baby. But he says he's happy we're having one.

[dreamergrl]

I understand how you don't see abuse yet. But what you have to see in his words is the thought pattern of how a woman should be and what she should be doing. I guess you had to have been beaten up by a guy who started out saying little small comments that can be dismissed alont the lines. It's called escalation. Also the fact that he hid it until I was pregnant is also very strange.

 

As far as the no wonder she cheated stuff and the chippendales stuff. I don't think that's abuse, just that he's not above cheating.

 

But the abuse comes in when he overtly says something he knows will hurt me when he percieved me to have disobeyed him. Instead of just confronting me with the issue and discussing things. Then also the comments about the house cleaning and other things in the indirect and cruel ways and always claims to be joking. It's a head game I've seen before. He's hidden all of these feelings if he ever felt them until I got pregnant. And I'm starting to suspect it's because he might feel I can't go anywhere now. Or maybe he just doesn't want the baby. But he says he's happy we're having one.

 

He knows he's getting to you, so he's testing your limits. You let him. He get all worked up over it.

 

A lot of it is just not being compatible. Is that a reason to abort? Not IMO.

[Scottdmw]

Hi Friendly,

 

It sounds like you are in a scary situation. It seems like you must feel really under pressure to make a decision about your relationship, with the pregnancy going on. Before you probably felt like you had time to evaluate things, but now you feel like you have to decide to stay with your boyfriend or not.

 

It's definitely good that you made such a long post, to help people understand your situation. After reading the whole thing, my feeling is that you may be being too hard on your guy. With the “Hooters” joke, certainly it sounds like it was inappropriate and not sensitive. But, you mentioned that he apologized furiously afterwards. Can you really ask for more than that? Everybody makes a mistake now and then.

 

You also mentioned he is calling women chicks now. Well, I can see how you wouldn't like that. I will just give you a little bit of experience from a guys perspective though. There is an awful lot of talk on this board and many other places about how “nice guys finish last”, and how women really want “bad boys”. It is enough to make me, and many other men, occasionally feel like we have to try to be a little bit “bad” for women to like us. There are many supposed dating experts out there who recommend men do that. Sometimes I will say something more in a “bad boy style” because I think this might be true. Seriously, men often feel like they just can't win. What I'm trying to say here is that your man may have some of these thoughts in his head when he decides to use the word “chicks”. Or I could be completely off base here. But, it seems to me like an awfully small thing to judge a man an emotional abuser over.

 

I have read some things myself about emotional abuse, and it is good to avoid people who are constantly putting you down or trying to undermine you. But, you also have to be a bit understanding. Sometimes people say things without thinking, or they come out wrong. Many times if you look too hard for one certain thing, you'll find it in anyone.

 

Try this experiment. Try to put yourself in his position for a while, then think about the things you have done in the relationship using the same kind of judgment you're using with him. Is it possible that some things you've done could be misconstrued as emotional abuse, when you know you didn't mean it that way?

 

One final thing on your boyfriend. Even as you are worrying about the pregnancy, you can bet that he is probably pretty scared too. Maybe he is acting a little bit different because he's afraid of being equal to the challenge. There is no guarantee of it, but I have heard women say that in certain cases their men have changed tremendously for the better after the birth of a baby. They get past the fear and realize that this is their mission and they are going to do the best they can.

 

I also wonder, are you feeling really afraid in general of pregnancy? I mean, it is a very big deal. Even if you had an ideal relationship, being pregnant for the first time is enough to scare anyone. Is it possible that you are really afraid of pregnancy and now seeing your relationship in a different light?

 

Please do also consider that not all women who get abortions are happy afterwards. There are entire websites devoted to women who struggle for years with psychological pain and heartbreak afterwards. Check out Rachel’s Vineyard or Silent No More, and read the stories of these women. It might be a good idea to have all the facts about this risk before you make such an important decision.

 

I wish you the best,

 

Scott

[friendly7]

Thank you Scott. I will think about it further. What you've said is making some sense. I will evaluate what was going on before things he said as well and see what the cause may be besides my disobedience to the work rule.

 

Part of me has been feeling he's lying about wanting the baby and trying to drive me away because he came into the relationship thinking I couldn't get pregnant. So maybe that's something he wanted--no kids, because he never had any issues when I told him I might not be able to have them.

 

But, some of the things you've said make sense. I will think it over further and possibly read some personal experiences before I make my final choice.

 

Thank you.